Nopecia, they did not, my blood tests are perfect, I am the epitome of health according to my doctor, I believe based on my experience with hormones and knowledge that this is enzymic. I believe it is a lack of 5 alpha reductase enzyme production, when the enzymes aren't produced the body can't reduce testosterone to DHT and you end up with extra testosterone and also high estrogen as your body aromizes it. Somehow the hormones induced more enzyme production and have sped up my recovery, let none of you be fooled, I was not and am not suffering from side effects from Avodart.
My hormone doctor had experience with this, but never had a patient as high maintenance as I, I am sure, so I started pretending I got better as I was afraid he would toss me as I was complaining so much. Sure enough, I got better, I believe that these hormone doctors encounter many people with PFS, but the people and the doctors do not put 2 and 2 together. The patients never having been on hormones before have no idea what to expect.
I am unique as I was already on hormones, so when the crash happened they stopped working, though let it be noted the hormones stopped working days after I took Avodart, I just didn't know it. I had wondered why my muscles were not pumped as normal and things were shrinking, man this has been a rough 9 weeks. I am now at the better part of this recovery where I am normal again in every way. So, yes I understand why hormones didn't work for you all, but as you can see based on my experience and this other guy's, hormones helped us. You all should be on HRT, even if you do manage to heal on your own, your hormones are probably all messed up from those drugs, you need the help, it takes commitment and time, but it happens. I hope my story here helps someone else and other people, that is why I put it all in one post.Yea, EXACTLY scaredoutofmymind, you were on for a few weeks, it would take months on it if you want to recover, but I believe my theory is correct about many people on this forum. I believe many here are hypochondriacs, I donāt mean that in a bad way, please forgive me, but based on what I read, many here are just afraid of going on hormones.
I do understand where the fear can come from after this happened, but hell, if I didnāt get better I would have killed myself, so if given 2 options, I would at least give hormones a shot. Plus I was already on them, you canāt say HRT did nothing for you if you were only on it for a few weeks man. Also, it doesnāt cause chest pains!!! Did you tell the doctor you were getting chest pains? I am sure he would have explained that to you, not only did HRT stop working for me after the crash, it made me feel like shit.
I will never forget that horrible estrogen anxiety feeling, finally I feel the effects of DHT again, about 8 to 9 weeks later, I feel like it has been a year.
Let the record show, based on my research and experience, HRT will minimize the amount of time recovery from this condition takes. Let me also state and verify that I was not and am not suffering from side effects just of Avodart, no doctors would agree that taking Avodart for 1 week could cause all this for 9+ weeks.
The muscle twitching stopped last week, it definitely coincided with less 5 alpha reductase enzymes, I know when they are high and low based on my skin being more oily. I had all the symptoms, I believe being on testosterone helped minimize muscle loss, I was unable to build new muscle, but did not loose all my muscle. It seemed that testosterone was able to prevent it from all going away, only now am I actually building muscle again.
As I type this I am having just a few minimal muscle twitches in my leg, based on my experience, less testosterone seems to be the better route than more. I believe when I started decreasing my testosterone to the correct āsweet spotā dose, that was when I started getting better, too much and it was like I had none, too little and it was too little. If you read my research and experiences, I started coming around after I started lowering the doses, not sure if I put that here.
No paradoxical reactions to testosterone injections, I am effectively cured, but I know my body is still not 100% recovered, but recovered enough to live life normally as before, I would say I am not 85% recovered by week 9.
So based on my posts and what im telling u would u say TRT is helping me??
Yes, it will help everyone, but if your testosterone level is only 633, you should ask your doctor about upping your dose, my HRT doc believes it should be around 1200. You may recover quicker if your test is higher, I am all better now, week 9 on HRT.
Well friends, I wonāt be coming back here anymore I donāt think, I will check in every once in a while perhaps. I am now cured, it took about 9 weeks, Hormone replacement therapy cured me as I expected. I hope this thread helps others out there, it is from beginning to end, my ups and downs, 9 weeks, and now I am better. I hope everyone here will listen to me and go on HRT like I did. If someone could move my thread to āRECOVERIES,ā perhaps it could helps someone.
Awesome man good to hear that. Itās obvious you crashed in the same way we all have. Itās also obvious that your body stopped responding to testosterone at the time you experienced your crash as your hormone levels were the same before, during and after your crash. We know this because you where on HRT before,during and after your crash.
Even though we are going to have thick headed people who canāt understand why your case and experience is important I for one am understanding that just because some people on here have not had luck with Their own HRT attempts it does not mean HRT is not the answer for us.
It makes sense that we just have to have it prescribed to us/take it in a different way. HRT to threat pfs needs to be taken in a diff way than HRT to treat a classic case of low T.
This is because People with LOW T respond to T properly and we donāt. Itās pretty simple to follow your logic as far as Iām concerned.
Of course Iām not saying that I believe this is the magic cure and answer we have all been waiting for. But getting your body to respond to testosterone again made you better and it would be stupid not to believe that. The more I learn about everyoneās experiences the more overall knowledge I have which increase my own chances of survival.
The main thing I learned from your experience is this:
This pfs crash that we have all experienced in ranging degrees is not simply about are hormone levels all of a sudden becoming low which is a trade mark sign of the start of PFS. Itās about are bodyās not being able to use testosterone and DhT the same way it could before the start of PFS.
Your case proves this for certain.
Hey 5 alpha, my child lol, nice to see you, yea man, donāt be fooled, not one person on this forum has been on HRT long term, they all tried it for a few weeks or even a month perhaps, then quit. Someone else posted on here that HRT has healed them too, 5 alpha, naturally I believe you will probably recover, but that recovery requires your body to produce something that you just arenāt producing a whole lot of right now. Perhaps that is the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. Hormones will enhance that production, the interesting thing is that it wasnāt really until a few weeks ago I really thought I was going to get fully better.
I hit this peak with my muscles not getting any bigger, then one week, bam, I gained 9 pounds of muscle in the last month, most of it in the last week or so. My muscles are not 100% hard like before, but they are at about 85%, I am buff and ripped, if I flex them they get hard, but you can push your finger in like rubber. They will recover fully as that is pretty much the only thing that tells me I am not 100% yet.
I feel great, libido, everything is all back to normal, if I stayed like this I wouldnāt mind as my skin isnāt breaking out like it did before on test lol. I kinda hope somehow the condition caused that part to stay in control, but I doubt it. Anyway, I realized, I would rather be fully healed and have the choice of lowering my test to lower my side effects than be forced into it against my will! lol. Go on HRT man, I got better in 9 weeks, donāt wait around. Read my post from beginning to end, yes I sound like a mad man most of the time, but I was really losing it from this condition, but it turns out good and you can see what I went through.
In retrospect, I was trying to always find a permanent treatment, but hormones are the treatment and a little time, a few months like my doctor said.
And equally as important your case also suggests a solution to this problem.
Find a dose/type of testosterone are bodyās can respond to. You have recommended trying Lower dosages as well as staying on TRT for an extended period of time attempting to get are bodyās to respond to hormones again.
So u are on TRT and HRT??? testosterone therapy and hormone replacement therapy together?? What is ure protocol??
Awesome.
There is actually a thread called TRT experiences and reading through it you can see members who make it clear they only tried the TRT for a short period of time.
When I tried TRT I tried it for approx 5 months. I used axiron which is the topical testosterone gel you put under your arm pits. I confirmed it was entering my blood stream by having blood tests of course. It moved my total T from the low 300ās to the low 700ās. I noticed no improvements during this 5 months in Ed but did notice improvements in sleep and well being.
If and when I get a doctor (hopefully HRT doctor as you recommend) to put me on TRT again I will have to use injections. The topical gels do not raise your T up to the 1000 range where yours are from injections.
I agree that 5 months on low dose testosterone (in my case the topical gel) was not long enough to rule in or rule out TRT working for me as it worked for you.
However here is the problem:
In addition to my experience with TRT thus far I also took clomid for over a year. The clomid raised my T levels to the 1000-1200 ranger where yours are at for the entire time I took the clomid. In other words I had awesome T levels for an extended period of time and still had no improvements in ED during this time.
What do you think about that as far as how it relates to your theory?
Do you think the clomid even though raised my LH through the roof also worked in a way to kill my labido in some way? Or do you think in my case raising my T levels to the upper range for a long period of time is just not the answer for me and my case?
such a hell, for nothing!
all those years, and the solution is HRT/TRT!
I agree HRT/TRTā¦eventually everything will fire back upā¦
Im glad to hear you are cured, so will anybody follow justquitduts protocol?
I plan on trying to go back on Testosterone. Iām looking for injections so I can get my total T somewhere in the 1000-1200 range.
So far I have been to three endoās who all refused to give It to me. Last time I went in TRT I had to make appointments with about 15 diff endoās before I found one who was willing to give me anything.
Itās going to be difficult because currently my total T is in the 700 range naturally.
I have not tried a HRT doctor that Justquitdut speaks of.
I figure my endocrine system is obviously messed up so I might as well just shut down my natural production and hope the higher T levels can help me. At this point my life is already fucked anyway so might as well try it as it canāt really get worse
Are u having nocturnal erections and morning woodā¦??? The reason I ask is when I quit finasteride my nocturnals and morning wood came backā¦ 8 weeks off propecia I was diagnosed with low t but I never lost any of thoseā¦I have been on TRT for 9 monthsā¦ As it sits right now I can get rock hard when I am kissing a girlā¦ I can get hard when I get a blowjob and I can have sex at least 3 days a week doing it doggiestyleā¦ So im not that badā¦ So TRT may be able to do these things for uā¦ I could not have sex successfully the first 6 months without eating an ed med on TRTā¦Have trained myself to doing it doggiestyle.lolā¦ Now I can and its consistentā¦ Are u able to do any of this without TRT?? Oh and when I talk to gf on phone about phone sex I can get rock hard
Sense this started for me I have not been healthy enough to be in a relationship. In other words even getting it on with a girl 3 times a week is not possible for me. Even when I tried TRT this was still the case for me.
The only time I have ever felt where I could say Iām on your level that u r on now was recently after i tried high dose DHEA combined with Trib and tongkat Ali. When I felt pretty good on all three of those sups I felt as if, if I combined those 3 sups with vigra or some other prescription ED med I could have been in a relationship.
I got busy with work and also noticed pain in my liver area so I came off of everything and now i am back to zero.
For what ever reason those 3 sups did more for me than the TRT did.
I wonder y this is as this is important. Iām into some of the stuff Justquitdut has to say. Such as the stuff about over saturated or exhausted receptors. Iām wondering if there is something about PFS that causes the receptors to try really hard to respond to testosterone causing them to just not work properly after their extra effort to try to work. Maybe there is something about reducing DHT in r bodies that causes are receptors to āgo into survival modeā causing them to become over worked.
Iām wondering if thatās y I did not respond to TRT a year back. Iām also wondering if the fact that I recently responded to T boosters is a sign that Iām now ready to respond to Testosterone?
Or maybe it was the dhea that helped me.
Itās so hard to say
Man I am sorry to hear thatā¦ If I were u I would try TRT againā¦ U never know u might respond now better than u did the first timeā¦ So the DHEA and the Tribulus and tongkat ali??? Do u still respond well to these supplements and how long have u taken them??
My first time taking the Trib and tongkat ali (from world abs which is the site CDnuts got his from) was about a month and a half Ago. I took them combined with DHEA for about 3 weeks during a time when I was super horny talking to this new girl I just met. Between her being super hot and those new sups I was feeling the best I have in almost 4 years.
I got fired from my job and at the same time my liver was hurting from all the crap I was taking.
I had to stop taking everything and I had to cut things off with the girl so I could focus on getting back on my feet which I have.
I just went back on the trib and tongkat ali last weeks.
My nuts are already bigger again . These products work for sure.
Im in the progress of coming up with some type of cycling routine for these products.
Something along the lines of high dose dhea followed by cycling the trib and tongkat ali to help with any potential shut down from the dhea.
Itās a lot of work but if I can get back on that level finding someway to not need to take so much shit all at once Iāll be good to go.
Loss of job in the middle of that fucked me over really badā¦ Otherwise I prob would of got laid for my first time sense this shit started for me
Just like in Justquitdutās case the dhea did something to me pretty much overnight that made my brain and dick feel more connected. It was like for the first time in 4 years when I was looking at porn I got a hard on with just mental stimulation.
But it went away shortly. I did not try upping the dhea even more as I was scared it would shut me down. But I plan on trying it soon. In going to try taking up to 300 mg per day like Justquitdut was doing . I got the trib and the tongkat ali just In case along with some old armidex