JustQUitDut's story

Long story short, I have been on propecia for more than 10 years, I am 34, was an executive of an anti-aging company, have had access to every drug and every doctor and am a very intelligent person. I am well versed in all the sciences, I am in exceptional physical shape and have been on hormone replacement therapy for the past few years.

Recently my hormone doctor (he is an anti-aging doctor, not a normal endo, he believes in bringing your levels to that of a 21 year old) told me to increase my testosterone. I knew if I did I would break out in cystic acne (which you cannot see on me as I have spent my life battling it and having access to just about everything imaginable. So I found this "miracle" drug Avodart, I knew that it only worked on certain people based on my research, I knew I would be one of the ones that it would work on due to my oily skin. It worked like a charm only to cause all the side effects you all have had, I suffered over the weekend with these effects badly. 

 For the first time testosterone stopped working, my muscles started shrinking (fast), but my skin wasn't oily, I lost a lot of hairs in the front of my head (just recently got hair transplants done so hair was not my focus at the moment, my skin was). I started Avodart a week ago and by the weekend after taking it daily (sometimes twice a day 0.5mg) I ended up a woman! I knew what estrogen felt like based on my own knowledge, never experienced it, but all these symptoms we are having are those of estrogen (as many of you have figured out). Estrogen is a flight hormone, that is why we are all feeling these anxious feelings. 

 I was hit by a ton of bricks this weekend as the last of my DHT ran out and I crashed, so having lots of hormones here, I decided after reading this forum to hit myself with a combo of drugs. First I used Sermorelin with GHRP 2 and GHRP 6, these 3 peptides are precursors to HGH, but what is different from HGH is that it is released by your own pituitary gland and regulated by your own autonomic system. Sermorelin+GHRP2+GHRP6 is used to reawaken the pituitary gland in those who abused HGH and as an anti-aging hormone. 

  Since Sermorelin + GHRP 2 + GHRP 6 reawakens the pituitary gland, I figured it was worth a shot as I take it daily anyway, I took several doses every day over the weekend. I then shot myself with 1000IU of HCG as I have read some success on the board with it and figured it might jump start my system, I took 0.5mg of Arimidex (anti-estrogen) as I have read some success with that, but also I wanted to cut down the estrogen, though I was not sure that would do any good. I shot myself with another 1CC of Testosterone, I shot myself with a total of 2CC of testosterone this past weekend, Testosterone Enanthate (a more natural and less androgenic testosterone compound). I have never used this much before, my new increased dose was 1cc, but I didn't feel anything, the Avodart in my system has been blocking the conversion of Testosterone to DHT. 

  I called my hormone doctor with an emergency call this morning, he told me to wait a couple weeks and everything should return and come in and see him, he is not a normal endo, he has a lot of experience with hormones and is unconventional, so I felt he would know something. I used to hire doctors and having known a lot of them over the years as close friends I realized that often they tell you things but do not explain why. I assumed he knew about Avodart, even though many others here have had doctors act like nothing was wrong. 

  Finally I took a bunch of DHEA, about 200MG, 100MG twice in this day, only after that did I start to feel myself returning to normal, I want to state that I quit Avodart on Saturday and my symptoms only got worse when they should have got better. It was so bad that I did not want to be awake, I grieve with you brothers, but now I feel about 80% better, I know my body is not yet producing enough DHT to feel as I did before, but I somehow jump started it. I noticed that I stopped producing pheromones during this process, the scent that comes from under your arms and testicles, you guys probably think it is gross, but in a young healthy male that is freshly showered, these are sexually attractive scents. That is why we use cologne, women are attracted to strong scents and male cologne tends to have a somewhat mimic of the male body scent. I am bisexual and so I have a deeper understanding of all this, though, I have read Propecia can cause homosexuality! Anyway, I am pretty sure I was bi since I was born, but who knows, maybe this stuff made it worse, I have been confused my whole life, but maybe as a bisexual that is normal.

 Anyway, the half life as you know of Avodart is 5 weeks, I know it is still in my system as my skin is not oily like it should be, I just worked out at the gym and strangely enough my strength is increasing from the testosterone, but my muscles don't retain the same pump they did before Avodart. However, since I administered this treatment I have made some muscle progress better today than yesterday, I am all muscle, I know my body, with that increase of test I should be twice as big, but at least I am not shrinking anymore (which is what happened yesterday). 

 I did not think DHEA would work as Testosterone is not converting to DHT, but it did, my feeling better is directly linked to the DHEA, but it may be a combination of everything. Since I have been on propecia for years I now wonder if I have been treating these symptoms my whole life, I have never been quite right, get lots of women and guys staring at me and after me, but my moods are always changing. I now must make a decision to go back on propecia daily and take one avodart a week (my new protocol). I don't know what to do, but if I do nothing and I return to my normal state I will lose a lot of hair and break out. 

 I do not believe based on my understanding of things and experience, that this condition is permanent, I know that it has only been a week, but these side effects should have stopped instantly when I stopped the drug, not got worse. Coincidentally they all get better with this drug cocktail? I started feeling crappy again today and took DHEA and felt better. Let me add that I am on a gluten free, diet with no dairy and bla bla bla, have all my meals made with organic food and delivered by a company. 

 I have experienced a lot in my life, but this crash I experienced this weekend was horrid, one of the worst experiences I have had, I had every symptom I have read here, I believe it is DHT deficiency, I know some here have tried DHT and that was not the solution? I am unsure at this point what to do, I am going to see how I wake up tomorrow. I know that Testosterone is useless with this condition based on my own experience, but I wonder if I have induced this condition that you all have permanently but temporarily. Let me add that I have a ridiculous sex drive, like 3-10 times a day, so I was shocked when that died yesterday. It started to return today after I started feeling better, I believe my body produced a little DHT.

 Last night by now after I worked out my muscles were shrinking, now they are not, what I used is not some joke, it was heavy stuff, so let me post it.

Sermorelin + GHRP 2 + GHRP 6 (2 units 1 to 3 times a day forever)
HCG 1000IU once a week (forever)
Testosterone Enanthate 1CC a week (forever)
Arimidex 0.5mg twice a week (forever).
Vitamin E
DHEA 100MG twice a day (not sure how long).

All I can tell you is I started to feel like a man again and not a woman on her period after the DHEA, I have seen on the board many of you using far less stuff than this. I feel testosterone pumping in my system but something isn’t quite all there but improving, either it was my cocktail or the blood plasma level of Avodart decreasing, but I felt like garbage till I did all this. I am pretty certain had I done nothing I would have felt like crap. Now I wonder if my hormone problems were all linked to my propecia use. Anyway, I am on hormone replacement therapy for life, or until one day I give up. I am going to see my hormone doctor in 2 weeks, he has a greater understanding of hormones than most endos, he will be able to see what is going on. I theorize that this may be linked to some kind of sex blood protein, I forget the name, but mine was high when I was tested last, I feel right now it is probably low.

I caught this in the act and managed to stop it and possibly reverse it or treat it, how many of you are on hormone replacement therapy and having these issues? I already know testosterone doesn’t do squat with this as I experienced it first hand, but the other stuff might. I somehow triggered something to start up again. I may wait a couple weeks till I restart finasteride etc… I do not believe this is permanent, most doctors are less knowledgable than people think, I believe many with these problems do not have the financial resources or the knowledge of where to go to fix these issues. I mean to say that I know who the best doctors are because I was an executive of an anti-aging company that is rather famous. I will talk to this hormone doctor in 2 weeks and tell him about you all and this forum and this condition, and see what he says, who knows, maybe he can help.

In the meantime, I feel like I have returned about 80%. Feel free to write me or reply, I am happy to help, also, all these drugs can be purchased on the net from other countries if you research enough and don’t have the money to see a doctor etc…

I hope that protocol works out for you… I got blood work 30days after crashing on Fin. I only used it 24 days. The blood work came back in range Low T and in range high E2. I just went to an endo and he is just re-ordering tests. I don’t think this is a hormonal issue. The drug attacks your central nervous system. Basically our body somehow stops utilizing T somehow. There are plenty of people on the site that pumped up with testo, AI, HCG and it worked for a week or so then totally stopped responding.

My top persistent issues at the moment are…

  1. Inability to sleep without meds.
  2. Low sensitivity in penis and decreased libido.
  3. Dry eyes, Dry mouth.
  4. Muscle mass dropped rapidly.
  5. Chronic fatigue
  6. Depression

Fin annihilated me in a short period of time. I also had a lot of the mental sides at first. I still battle depression because of what this drug has done to me.

how is your sex drive libido recover percent

“I do not believe based on my understanding of things and experience, that this condition is permanent, I know that it has only been a week, but these side effects should have stopped instantly when I stopped the drug, not got worse”

I have been suffering for the last five years (and there are many who have been for over 10 years, 15 years)and you say it is not permanent. I wish you were right.

I said id kill myself after 2 years. Its been 2 years. I will give this another year, or after these studies are published. My face is deteriorating. Muscles gone. Sex gone. Life gone. 2 years 10 pills life gone. I cant live like this. I know there is for sure no god because I have prayed alot over the last 2 years. I even gave god credit when I started feeling better. havent drank in 2 years. Im gonna kill myself.

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Hang in there man. You are still young. All the studies and science will produce some real results and treatment options soon so give it some more time. I’m 4 years in recovery and about 85% better. Sex function is fine now, but I still struggle with depression and skin/appearance issues. Anyhow, I intend to be around long enough to see Justice is done. Merck will pay dearly for this!

Giving up is just not an option. You have to take action and follow the advice shared on this site. Fight for your life by working out, eating right and taking all the right supplements. And just remind yourself that there will be ups and downs but over time you’ll get better and better. I can attest to this because I had your same mindset for quite a while in the first two years.

What skin/facial changes are you guys experiencing? I am noticing dryness and some fat loss but to others I still appear “normal”.

This is where you’re going to lose a bunch of people here…

No one will argue with you on this.

Think of the opposite of healthy and vibrant. I look pale and tired looking eyes.

I am not going to start the poison again, I have though come across a treatment that seems to be helping. I am seeing an Endocrinologist tomorrow, a hormone doctor in 2 weeks. I also spoke to an expert in hair who did my hair transplants. I believe based on my own knowledge that I am in an induced state of this strange disorder, I pray it is not permanent. However, I will share with you friends what the Endo says tomorrow, I have been taking high doses of DHEA. About 100MG 3 times a day and found that it has been producing great help. My muscles while I take DHEA stop shrinking, it seems that DHEA is similar to DHT, so while I am only 4 days of Avodart, the poison remains in my system blocking the conversion of testosterone to DHT.
While my case may not be the same as others here, I hope it does not become so, perhaps my research and experience will help others here. Has anyone tried high doses of DHEA? I am onto some other theories as well, like for example a steroid that does not work the same way as testosterone, like Masteron. Since the 5 alpha reductase 1 and 2 enzymes are being blocked then an alternative steroid that used different pathways may be a treatment.
I spoke to Avodart today, a pharmacist there, they all tell me it remains in your system for 5 weeks, so if I am suffering with the half-life of this poison, my experiences may help others here. Has anyone tried DHEA? Seems that testosterone injections stop responding from this condition, but DHEA seems to synergistically work with testosterone to provide some help. I am getting muscle spasms as well that mimic a deficiency of electrolytes, I experienced this before with diuretics to get rid of water retention. Little did I know it was all caused by finasteride.
My perspective has changed since the first post, I am not the normal person, I have resources and knowledge and connections, I am young and strong, I will defeat this and in so doing perhaps help others here. We must redouble our efforts and focus on treatments/cures, we cannot simply sit around and wait for research to come. Has anyone here tried testosterone therapy with DHEA? I find it curious that DHEA works and based on my research it is similar to DHT. The treatment has to be in a hormone that can operate like DHT. Something is better than nothing, 100MG of DHEA 3 times a day, everyone try it for now.
I will post my responses tomorrow from the Endo, but remember, if I have even a temporary induced state of this disorder, the treatments that help me, may help all of you as well. I am hitting this hard, I live in south FL, a medical state, I know a lot of doctors and I am not waiting for the half life to get this out of my system, I will find resolutions now. I also noticed my joints cracking which never happened before, so I must be dry inside. I only experienced this before with high doses of Arimidex in the past when I was on a lot of testosterone and didn’t know how to take arimidex correctly.
Thoughts anyone?

Friends, we must not give up, we must fight the good fight and prevail, tomorrow I go to the Endocrinologist, I live in south FL, there are a lot of medical resources here. The clinic I am going to has a lot of Endocrinologists there, I will keep you all up to date, but one thing I am not doing is giving up. My only hope is that I have only been on Avodart 1 week and off it for 4 days and it stays in the system for 5 weeks, but I seem to be suffering from all the problems here. I believe that I am suffering from a DHT deficiency, has anyone here tried DHT? Hopefully my condition is not permanent, but perhaps this poison is continuing to prevent the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, I am pretty sure that is what is happening. Anyway, we will see what the doctor says tomorrow, I am going to get blood tests and everything and keep you guys informed. Thankfully I had a blood test only a few months ago, so my hormone doctor has that info and I see him in a couple weeks. While my muscle size seems to be shrinking, my strength at the gym is still the same, so I keep working out in an attempt to save what I have in this meantime.
For now I have brought my social life to a HAULT, I won’t be doing anything with anyone till I fix this, especially since I have no libido, a situation I never experienced before. Tomorrow is my next testosterone injection day, let’s see if some of this poison has worn off and I have some effects from it. I will keep you up to date, everyone stay strong, we must pool our resources, everyone here must go to endocrinologists and we will compare all of their notes and findings. Trying to fix this ourselves may be beyond us, there are times when one has to accept that, even one such as myself, though I have not yet.
Will write more tomorrow!

Hey. I am also experiencing extreme facial changes and they are accelerating now that I quit the drug.

Mine include:

-severe facial fat loss (eye region, temples, cheekbones, cheeks (sunken), forhead) (The face is itchy/tingly when fat is lost)
-bone density loss (narrower, less pronounced jaw, less cheekbones, smaller chin) (There is a dull pain in the bone when bone density is reduced)
-dry and thinner, paler skin (used to have think skin)
-slower and less beard growth
-greyish colorless hair, different less thick structure
-thinnig eyebrows, lighter color
-due to fat loss beneath the eyes they are now rounder
-more feminine features: thicker lips, thinner nose (also fat loss and thinner skin adds to this feminine look)
-the face looks less vibrant and masculine (like an aged child)
-general appearance is that of a drug addict/ hiv patient, totally run down

pls post your facial changes here: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9303

two extreme cases …the more photographic evidence we have, the better.

I started to feel better tonight, the Avodart blood concentration levels must have dissipated enough for my Depo Testosterone injections to kick in and my liver to produce enough DHT. I am convinced that you are all mostly suffering from DHT deficiencies, my experience could be used to help find a treatment or cure. I was on Avodart which stays in your system for 5 weeks, I was having all your side effects, only now tonight 5 days after quitting, am I starting to feel testosterone again (or rather Dihydrotestosterone).
Has anyone tried taking DHT? I believe the problem is your body is no longer converting testosterone to DHT, have any of you tried taking the supplement DHEA? It was the only thing that seemed to reverse the syndrome every time I took DHEA.
It is strange, it is as though you all have this drug in your system still working, I wonder if it is possible that Propecia somehow is in your fat or bones or blood and still blocking alpha 5 reductase II? I know you all want justice, but also I believe a treatment is definitely possible, it is all through hormones, I have seen far too many people on here that are suicidal. I totally understand why, only hours ago before my body started coming back, I was telling my dad if this didn’t resolve I would do myself in.
As my body is able to create DHT again, it is as though I have been through a marathon, I feel exhausted, but in a good way, it’s like I have been starved of food or water and slowly getting it back. Have you all been to endocrinologists? I have an appointment tomorrow, not sure if I am still going now, depends if I wake up still recovering then I will cancel, if not (God forbid) then I will go.


Had an endo apt a couple days ago. He agreed I had Low T and High E. Just wanted to re-test it and Vit-D. If tests come back low he will probably recommend TRT but I asked him… Wont that just convert to more E2 and my E2 was already high. So not sure… The test will probably come back enough in normal range and I will just be fucked like everyone else here. I don’t see any reason for it to be any different.

Man you have low testosterone, you are thinking all wrong, definitely go on hormone replacement therapy! Propecia caused me to have low testosterone I am pretty sure, testosterone changed my life. The only time it stopped working was when I recently went on Avodart for my skin and hair, it worked for skin, but I was taking way too much and it fucked me, thankfully I am recovering as it leaves my system.
Yes testosterone increases estrogen, that is why you then take 1mg of Arimidex a week split in half, it will change your life, anyone on here who is complaining and hasn’t tried hormone replacement therapy should stop complaining. I know some here have tried everything and for them I am not meaning to say anything, but some of you just need HRT.
You need to find a good HRT doctor, one that knows about Arimidex and HCG and doesn’t just put you on test without the other drugs, so make sure to ask him about HCG and Arimidex, if he says you only need test and nothing else then find a real doctor. Test will fix all your probe, now my curiosity is that I wonder if some of the people here (who actually have this syndrome and have tried hormone replacement therapy), have they tried DHT and/or DHEA?
I am starting to think that some of you who suffer long term may have these drugs in your body, I would like to know if those people are overweight, slow metabolism, if so it could be in your body longer. If your doc wants to put you on Test, GO ON IT, you will thank me later when you feel like you are 21 again ( and look like it if you go to the gym). Just don’t go on the gel, it is useless, go on the injectable enanthate test (Enanthate has less sides than the others).

JustQuitDut - I would advise that you keep your Endo appointment. It’s too early to say that you are out of the woods, and it would be useful to compare your hormonal levels to what they were before. Regarding your DHT theory, I definitely am producing DHT as hair loss resumed after stopping propecia (this isn’t the case for everyone however, as for some hairloss stops) and I’m still left with persistent sides, although some of my sides are physical changes which occurred over a set period of time and just haven’t rectified themselves or improved e.g. thinner penis.

I would be interested in your knowledge and experience of peptides etc. as this is one avenue I’ve considered since propecia thinned/prematurely aged my skin. Would you advise as to their efficacy in this regard?

I cancelled my endo appointment, BUT I have an appointment with my anti-aging hormone doctor who is one of the foremost experts in hormones anyway. I see him in a couple weeks, the Avodart was in my system and I am getting better every minute, because I am on hormone replacement therapy, it gives me a little boost.
For all we know, I may have been constantly treating and curing this condition for years, I do believe Propecia might have given me low test. I will know what my numbers are as I will be getting blood work done again from my anti-aging doctor. The Avodart remains in your system for 6 weeks and depletes slowly and takes 6 months to completely get out. It did induce a low DHT syndrome, Scotsman, just because you are losing hair, does not mean you are producing enough DHT.
What I have realized after reading this board is that there are a mixture of a lot of people with a lot of different problems that may all have been caused by propecia. I don’t believe it is all the same though, many here need hormone replacement therapy and aren’t going and getting it. What was interesting (well not so in a good way) was how Avodart was (and still is to a lesser extent) blocking the conversion of Testosterone to DHT.
Scotsman, this condition of no DHT could essentially cause hairless, it seems to have caused my joints to hurt, drying up your whole body like that will definitely cause you to lose hair eventually as things break down. If I didn’t improve my next step would have been to ask for DHT supplementation, however, it is returning. Scotsman, I inject Sermorelin with GHRP 2 and GHRP 6, they are 3 precursors to HGH used by anti-aging doctors. Instead of paying a fortune for medical grade from a doctor, I buy them off peptide sites that are sold for “research purposes,” but really humans all buy them, it is just how they get around that, look into Canada.
Inject that one to 2 to 3 times a day 2 units, you can buy 5mg GHRP 2 and 5MG ghrp 6 and then (3) 2mg Sermorelins, that way you have 6mg of Sermorelin and 5mg of ghrp 2 and 5mg of ghrp 6. Sermorelin and these peptides regenerate your cells, organs, enhance the immune system, replace collagen, repair skin, muscle, cause you to grow new muscle cells. Also the theory exists that the HGH it causes your pituitary gland to produce can help regrow hair, prob that is bs but maybe in some people. However, the interesting thing is it is used now for people who were on HGH as their pituitary gland shuts down, it re-activates it.
You should focus your research on these amazing peptide combos as they are being used all over the world now and have been in hollywood for a long time. It is quite possible that the Sermorelin + GRPH 2 and GHRP 6 were repairing the damage or counter acting it. However, during my 1 week suffering period, the only thing that alleviated this was DHEA. My theory is that DHEA works like DHT but is different so could not be blocked by the AVODART.
So I had injected high doses of testosterone and it wasn’t working as DHT was being blocked, but DHEA WITH the testosterone was working to a small extent. I quit the DHEA as I wanted to know if I was recovering from this or not, and I started recovering after much prayer and lots of drugs last night. I am happy to share my research with any of you, I can’t seem to private message on here as I am new, but if you can speak to the OPS I am happy to reply or here in public.
You all definitely need to be on hormone replacement therapy, the one thing I can conclude is these conditions are all related to hormone deficiencies. It is quite possible that 85% of the people here would be fixed with hormone replacement therapy. I am not at all convinced that any of you are NOT lacking DHT. I believe somehow this drug is stored in your fat, and still working, but I also know that for some it is more complex than that and may be neurological, but I don’t know.
Another interesting thing, I am bisexual, since I have been off propecia I seem to only be interested in women, I look at guys at the gym, but my attractions seem to be more towards women, but that has switched back and forth my whole life so I don’t know if it is related. Go to the store and pick up a bottle of DHEA and take 100MG 3 times a day and let me know what happens, you will notice a difference within an hour or 2 of taking it I also suggest you go on the peptides, but you need steroids, all of you, hormones. DHEA is the only legal steroid that you can buy at the store, but as I previously mentioned, its similarities to DHT made it cause Testosterone to start working again to a small degree when I was deficient this past week from Avodart.

PS. I know for a fact I was DHT deficient and it is slowly coming back as my skin is producing more oil, my sweat glands are not producing yet a lot of pheromones, but at least I have a mild scent again. Really was disgusting to smell like nothing, I didn’t feel human. I happen to produce A LOT of DHT, that is what lead me to the path of Avodart and I know my body and that’s how I know all this along with my background and experience and research.

Also, I will ask my hormone doctor about this condition to see if he can help you all. I also will post future blood results, I am about 30% to 40% back. The Avodart is still in my system blocking DHT and creating some side effects, but due to my body’s high DHT production and the testosterone injections, I am normal enough to build some new muscle. I am extremely muscular and workout a lot, so now that I am producing enough to get back and stop shrinking. I jerked off and came normally today for the first time, but still prob have a week to go or 2 before this is out. I can’t help but wonder why the drug remaining in my system and slowly depleting could cause the same effects you are all having. Tell me, are you guys fat? I don’t mean to be rude, but do you have a lot of body fat? I wonder if the shit is stored in your fat and lack of exercise is not getting rid of it. I remember a few posts from people saying working out helped them. It definitely helped me, I felt that I need to burn the shit out of my body.