Scotsman, you were right, I am not out of the woods yet, this poison is not enough out of my system I suppose, as I got up to go to the gym I started losing my muscle pump that came back last night. Very strange, however, I have a theory based on what my hormone doctor told me. He said not to inject anymore testosterone (till my next dose was due), that it could make the problem worse. Of course he didn’t explain why, but I assume that if the Avodart is still preventing the conversion of Testosterone to DHT, that I have just flooded my system with a lot of useless testosterone and thus now a rush of wretched estrogen.
While at the gym I took a .5mg of Arimidex I had in my pocket to help kill off the estrogen, I don’t want to take too many of them, but if this shit is continuing to create estrogen in my body then I will. I have decided I am going to consolidate my efforts to the one Hormone doctor, he is an expert in hormones and familiar with what I am on. I don’t feel like going to an Endocrinologist who might contradict what I am doing, my hormone doctor seemed to think I would be better in a couple weeks, I am on day 5, it has been a long 5 days. However, I do believe I am better today than I was 5 days ago.
The arimidex seems to have helped as my muscles have slightly pumped up again. I am very familiar with all this stuff, which is what makes me so keen to these reactions. I know exactly what every hormone feels like, why I do is a long story but I do. I am going to maintain my current course to this hormone doctor in 2 weeks, I will in the meantime let this poison wear off more and more. According to my calculations at the elimination of Avodart from my system, I estimate the decline to be roughly at 1% per day. Therefore I estimate the Avodart concentration in my blood has decreased by 5%.
Since Avodart suppresses DHT by 95%, I estimate that my DHT is producing probably about 10% currently. I am going to go inject more Sermorelin and hope that it will help to reverse this condition quicker. Let me also note that I am suffering from muscle twitches which mimic that of an electrolyte imbalance, I believe that this is part of the Avodart poisoning. This stuff should be OUTLAWED, it is as though something has re-activated this poison, perhaps the testosterone made it worse as my hormone doctor predicted. I should have waited longer to inject it.
Either way, I drastically improved last night and this morning only to stunt my recovery with a scheduled testosterone dose, I should have waited an extra week. Something seems to be throwing off my Potassium or some electrolyte, I am going to take supplements soon perhaps. I will report back as soon as I have more to report.
UPDATE: I started feeling better yesterday after I drank Dandelion Root Tea, and my muscles pumped up etc… IT occurred to me that perhaps Dandelion Root was interfering with the Avodart POISON in my system. So I made some more after my symptoms deteriorated again. Sure enough my muscles pumped up and got harder again and stopped melting and I am feeling better. There is no known antidote to Avodart except time, but I believe this may be somewhat of a treatment. My only fear is that by blocking it from metabolizing in my liver, I may be extending it in my system longer.
I am going to see what happens tomorrow after I do not have dandelion root tea, and I will have it and repeat the process. I am developing the theory that all of our systems are loaded with this crap, finasteride, avodart. I would like someone else to try Dandelion Root tea and see if they notice that they feel better after, It would be a start. IF this works I hope it is blocking just the action of Avodart but that it is still clearing my system. The muscle spasms have stopped after I drank it too.
Man you just got off of it. You may just recover naturally. I have been suffering 2 yrs.
Justquitdut
This hell started for me after taking avodart. Most people on this website took finasteride as I am sure you already know . Because your problems started after taking the avodart as well I have a lot of questions I would like to ask you.
Also have questions about some of your ideas and conclusions about this whole thing such as treatment with the dhea. Because you are too new it sounds like you can’t pm yet. So I will wait another day to try to pm you. If that does not work I’ll just plan on commuting via this thread.
Keep updating us with your situation.
Your theory about how the avodart being stuck In your body’s fat cells being the explanation for why symptoms continue to occur after discontinuing the drug is interesting.
Do you think the best course of action to test this theory would be to just simply find a way to test your blood to see if the avodart is still in your system. Even if it’s stuck in are fat cells it’s reasonable to think that it has to show up on some test even if it’s not in the Blood.
Do you think the more likely explanation is that the avodart destroyed the 5 alpha reductase type 2 enzyme in important places in the body such as the prostate. After all one of the reasons why avodart is prescribed is to shrink prostates. This is the reason why a doctor gave me the avodart. This tells me that not only does a DHT inhibiter such as avodart have the ability to stop overall conversion to DHT in the body but it also had the ability to target DHT conversion is specific areas that are obviously important for normal sexual function such as the prostate.
In your situation it sounds like to me that for some reason the propecia alone was not enough to damage your body’s ability to continue to replenish the 5ar2 enzyme. The fact that you have been on propecia for a while and never experienced pfs symptoms confirms this. It’s like you needed to add in the avodart for your body to no longer have the ability to remake the enzyme.
My theory is as far as hitting this point it’s different from man to man. Everyone’s ability to replenish the 5ar2 enzyme after taking a drug that attacks it varies from person to person Which is confirmed by the fact that a lot of guys can take DHT inhibiters and never experience pfs.
So you think this explanation makes more sense than the drug being stuck in your body?
Let me know what you think,
Thanks
I also think a guys ability to continue replenishing the 5ar2 enzyme depends on their overall health. You said your in good health, have a lot of lean muscle, have a good diet and have good hormone levels by being on HRT. This tells me you are In good health. And this makes sense why you had to take such a high dosage of DHT inhibiters to finally get PFS symptoms. Even for someone’s body that’s on point such as yours will eventually not have the ability to remake the 5ar2 enzyme if exposed to enough DHT inhibiters.
I also believe that vitamin deficiencys prior to taking a DHT inhibiter can increase the chances of your body not being able to remake the enzyme after killing it with a DHT inhibiter. For example vitamin b12 is a vitamin that members on this website report having a history of being deficient in. Old labs I have from right after my pfs started showed low normal Vitamin b12 levels. It’s known that vitamin b12 helps the body produce new cells. So it sounds reasonable that having high vitamin b12 levels can help your body produce more of an enzyme after it’s attacked by a drug.
I’m a vegetarian and so a vitamin b12 deficiency would make sense for me personally.
It’s known that vitamin b12 is a vitamin that lots of people have a difficult time absorbing for their body’s to use. It’s very plausible that low vitamin b12 levels could be a common trait in pfs suffers.
In your opinion do you think that dhea can increase 5 ar2 activity? Do you think this is the reasoning why dhea made you feel better?
Interesting. You have any recent vitamin b12 readings?
Or any before, during, after pfs onset?
Nah my vitamin d was low though in a blood test I had recently.
That’s another vitamin that seems to have a potential importance for us. My vitamin d levels where low right after these symptoms started.
I know other members have mentioned low vitamin d levels as well.
I found some other pfs forum that had guys on it talking about if pfs can cause are body’s to not absorbs vitamin D the right way. Don’t know how they came up with that idea but one guy mentioned how he took a crazy amount of vitamin D for a year after coming down with pfs but still had low normal levels of vitamin D in his blood.
After reading that story I just increased my vitamin D pills. I figure vitamin D is not bad for you so what do I have to lose
If you only had side-effects for a couple of weeks you do not have PFS.
There are some individuals that are effected temporarily who make full recoveries relatively quickly. PFS is characterised by those who have persistent effects longer than a few months.
I’m glad you feel better but I don’t think you have anything to offer to us that is relatable. Many have tried DHT supplemention to supraphysiological levels. Using either Andractim, Masteron, Winstrol, Proviron or Prohormones. It never works.
I’m still interested to see if this guys system can kick these PFS like symptoms or not. He seems confident that this is just a temporary thing from adding in the avodart on top of the propecia.
If he gets lucky and moves past it in a few days now that he stopped the dutasteride (which hopefully he can) I’m interested to know what the difference is between him and us. For example ok he was on HRT before experiencing these pfs like problems. So this could be maybe what saved him from coming down with long term full blown pfs. Or maybe from being as he puts it in tip top physical shape and health that this is what saved him.
I’m also interested to hear more about his experience with taking dhea as I just started taking it today. This is my first time taking anything that can possible alter hormone levels in a while now. I’m hoping that because now I have good natural Total and free T levels that my ed will respond to the dhea.
Or the dhea just fucks me up and puts me backwards. Time to roll the dice once again my friends! The game of life with PFS continues
i have lost weight and regain then after withdrawal, for me its temporary. i have hair shedding and oily skin without any drugs.
Keep in mind that other drugs like clomid nolvadex etc etc that you can use MAY affect recovery and may block any REBOUNDING effect after finasteride usage.
I tried only low dose proviron which is DHT to keep E2 low. first months after withdrawal.
You ever try DHEA?
Did the low dose proviron do anything for u?
As I mentioned above 1 of the things that intrestes me about this guy is that he was on HRT before having these problems. So I’m intrested to see what happends
Hi 5 alpha victim, it has been 10 or 11 days since I quit Avodart, you are in luck as I have a lot of resources at my disposal. I see my hormone doctor on the 3rd and I have requested my levels get tested, I am intrigued by some here who say DHT supplementation has not helped. DHT supplementation without Testosterone may be ineffective, have these same people tried DHT along with testosterone? For how long did they try it? It may take time.
5 alpha, to answer your questions, first you may not have this forever, I have spoken to a lot of pharmacists and a pharmacist at Avodart as well as my hormone doctor and regular doctor. Avodart is a horrible wretched poison with a 5 week half life, it reduces by 50% in 5 weeks and then by 100% in another 5 weeks. However, in some cases it can remain in your system working for up to 4 years, according to a pharmacist at Avodart.
It seems that Avodart is leaving my system at the correct rate of 10% a week (I calculate based on its half life) roughly 1% a day. So my recovery is extremely gradual, however, if I went from the day I quit to today, I would have a dramatic difference. I do have a lot of lean muscle, but while my strength seems to have remained the same, I am slowly losing muscle or my muscle is shrinking, I am not sure. It is getting better as more Avodart leaves my system
5 alpha, you should definitely be on hormone replacement therapy, I am convinced these drugs ruin our natural hormone production. That is a start, but you should not assume you are stuck with this indefinitely from Avodart, Avodart has the longest half life of I think any drug. You won’t notice improvement if you aren’t on hormones, if your hormones are all messed up even if Avodart stops blocking the conversion of test to DHT, you prob wouldn’t even notice a recovery. I say this as my hormone doctor said because I am on testosterone, it will help a great deal.
I also noticed a doctor people have mentioned a lot on here wrote something to the effect that people with this condition need high doses of test. I took a very high dose today (even though my hormone doctor said it could make it worse initially) but I finally feel a small dose of test again. I am convinced that avodart is preventing the test to DHT conversion, but as it wears off I produce some DHT, with high doses of test, it is more noticeable, if I was not on test I would not notice it as I did not with a normal dose.
I am also on b12, but that has not done anything significant, I am starting to believe people here have finasteride in their fat cells. The more you workout and get your body fat low, the more of a chance you have at getting this shit out of your body. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think so, with Avodart in my body I seem to be mimicking the symptoms everyone else here has. Since I am very slowly improving, I don’t believe it is permanent.
To answer all your questions, I believe my health and fitness and diet and hormones are helping me get past this, but not for the reasons you think. I believe it is simply helping me metabolize this poison faster than other victims, and the hormones are helping somewhat. Unless people here have tried prescription DHT through a HRT doctor, I am not convinced it won’t help. As for the muscle twitching, I am experiencing it too, but I found an article on a study done on mice that finasteride 5alpha reductase blockers caused mice to have this these symptoms. The researchers concluded that it is blocking an anti-convulsant chemical in the brain.
Whoever has the means here should be at a hormone replacement doctor, people who have taken avodart have more of a chance I think of recovering. Only because it is most likely the slow elimination of Avodart from the body. That does make me think though, what if Finasterine also has a long half-life like Avodart for SOME people? It seems like people here have Finasteride stuck in their body continuing to work. There are reasons I know that Avodart is doing this, because my skin is still not as oily as it was before it, but as my symptoms improve my skin becomes more oily. So it is directly linked to 5 alpha reductase production.
This is hell, but I am better today than I was last week, I am about to go to the gym, you all should be working out every day to try and get this shit out of your bodies. I will post my reports from the hormone doctor when I see him and labs etc… Thankfully I have recent labs from my HRT doctor before I started Avodart and after, so we can compare and figure out what is going on in my body.
5 alpha, I also wanted to ask, how long have you been off of Avodart? Have you noticed that when you sweat you do not give off pheromones? That scent that people call “body oder,” in young guys with high testosterone and normal DHT (I guess), the smell is intoxicating to women. I am bisexual so also can say it is, we are programmed to smell the differences. Colognes I noticed are a variation of that scent but with pretty overtones. Anyway, I stopped giving off that scent and I give off no scent now, just recently after 10 days off Avodart and on high doses of testosterone, I started slightly giving off that scent, SLIGHTLY. So that tells me that I am slowly recovering from this Avodart poisoning. I thought I would mention it to you, these are things many may not notice. I would be curious to know if the finasteride victims are also not giving off this scent, I will make another post.
I am getting my levels tested to compare before and after with my Hormone doctor, just had my levels tested before I started Avodart when things were perfect, now we will see what changes have occurred and what is going on in my body to perhaps help others here. This guy is a top hormone doctor, so he believes these symptoms are the Avodart in my system still and will fade away. Let’s see what we see, and I will post back, my appointment is the 3rd of July.
I am also having a second appointment with an Endocrinologist, so that I can have 2 doctors working on this, one is an Endocrinologist and the other is a world renowned hormone doctor. I intend to live at doctor’s offices until this is resolved, luckily I have before numbers to compare to after numbers. If in fact that is Avodart’s long half life, we will see, but we will see what it is doing to me as I have every symptom you all have. We will find out what is going on, perhaps I can help others here, because I won’t be giving up until this is solved. At this point I have shut down my entire life except my business which I do from home, my new priority is fixing this.
Btw you can show last published study to your doctors.