Can you paste the study here? I clicked on that and no study came up, just a bunch of twitter posts. I would like to bring something to both doctors, my hormone replacement doctor seems to be more familiar and not worried about this. It is quite possible I am suffering from the drug still in my system as I was on Avodart which has a 5 week half life (50% decline) and then another 5 week 50% decline.
I made an appointment again with the Endocrinologist I cancelled with, as well as my scheduled appointment with my hormone replacement doctor. I have before numbers to compare, I was healthy and perfect before, I am going to get to the bottom of this, hopefully what answers I find will help others here.
Immunohistochemical evaluation of androgen receptor and nerve structure density in human prepuce from patients with persistent sexual side effects after finasteride use for androgenetic alopecia.
AuthorsDi Loreto C, et al. Show all Journal
PLoS One. 2014 Jun 24;9(6):e100237. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0100237.
Affiliation
Abstract
Finasteride is an inhibitor of 5-α-reductase used against male androgenetic alopecia (AGA). Reported side effects of finasteride comprise sexual dysfunction including erectile dysfunction, male infertility, and loss of libido. Recently these effects were described as persistent in some subjects. Molecular events inducing persistent adverse sexual symptoms are unexplored. This study was designed as a retrospective case-control study to assess if androgen receptor (AR) and nerve density in foreskin prepuce specimens were associated with persistent sexual side effects including loss of sensitivity in the genital area due to former finasteride use against AGA. Cases were 8 males (aged 29-43 years) reporting sexual side effects including loss of penis sensitivity over 6 months after discontinuation of finasteride who were interviewed and clinically visited. After informed consent they were invited to undergo a small excision of skin from prepuce. Controls were 11 otherwise healthy matched men (aged 23-49 years) who undergone circumcision for phimosis, and who never took finasteride or analogues. Differences in AR expression and nerve density in different portions of dermal prepuce were evaluated in the 2 groups. Density of nuclear AR in stromal and epithelial cells was higher in cases (mean 40.0%, and 80.6% of positive cells, respectively) than controls (mean 23.4%, and 65.0% of positive cells, respectively), P = 0.023 and P = 0.043, respectively. Conversely, percentage of vessel smooth muscle cells positive for AR and density of nerves were similar in the 2 groups. The ratio of AR positive stromal cells % to serum testosterone concentrations was 2-fold higher in cases than in controls (P = 0.001). Our findings revealed that modulation of local AR levels might be implicated in long-term side effects of finasteride use. This provides the first evidence of a molecular objective difference between patients with long-term adverse sexual effects after finasteride use versus drug untreated healthy controls in certain tissues.
And thats full article journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ⊠ne.0100237
I sent it to my hormone doctor so he can read it before I see him, tomorrow I see an Endocrinologist, I am not telling either doctors that I am seeing each other. I want fresh perspectives from each doctor, I will keep you guys up to date.
Justquitdut,
I am not taking TRT or any type of HRT therapy because for the last year up until present day I have completely natural total testosterone levels testing in in the 700âs. I have more than normal testosterone levels for a 29 year old guy. When my PFS started almost 4 years ago it caused me to have Low normal Total and free testosterone levels. I have been able to recover my testosterone levels using clomid and time. Like I said I have been on nothing for the last year and have these levels so Iâm
Not looking to take anything that will crash them. When my pfs first started 4 years ago I tried Clomid and testosterone which both increased my testosterone levels to the top of the range but at the same time did nothing for my sexual sides such as ED, Shrunken dick and unhealthy looking watery seamen. I was on arimedex to control E when taking clomid and testosterone. I verified that my E and SHBG was always in check in response to taking the arimedex while taking clomid and testosterone. So I know clomid and or testosterone induced high E was not to blame for seeing no improvements in sexual sides while taking clomid or testosterone. This is how I know I am a pfs sufferer who does not respond to increased T levels just like most people on this website. Furthermore I can sit here and safely say that if my now good natural hormone levels are not correcting my PFS than raising them will not help the problem.
As far as the body scent question I have noticed no change in this sense PFS onset. When I hit the gym and swet ectâŠI smell the same about of BO as I did before PFS. But I can say that my skin was way more oily before PFS as all my acne stopped the day my PFS started and has never came back sense. Also I have not experienced hair loss sense pfs onset but also never experienced hairloss before PFS onset. Only exception being the week my PFS started I noticed some hair falling out on the front of my head but it stopped. Strange considering all my hormone levels at that time because of my pfs induced crash where low. One way or other I have pretty much all my hair currently and could care less about hairloss in general .
Although I have made it clear that in my opinion increasing T in my case wonât help me, I still think that curing your PFS is going to require you too have normal testosterone levels. Itâs clear that a trademark of pfs causes low T. Iâm lucky to have recovered from that aspect of PFS.
I think the fact that you are on HRT therapy and have optimal levels of T in your system going into PFS that this is going to help you. Itâs Interesting to me that although you have optimal levels via TRT you still experienced the trademark crash of PFS. That to me is guaranteed confirmation that this PFS crash where you experience muscle loss and sexual problems over night is not caused by your T going down suddenly because the entire time in your case because of TRT your levels always stayed the same.
As far as if avodart being stuck In are systems. Honestly I donât think this is possible. After the half life of the avodart is done the med is no longer on your system. So In your case seeing that you are still within the half life period maybe this could be the explanation for whatâs causing you your current PFS/crash like symptoms. Hopefully it Is so you wonât be another long term
Victim of this shit.
In my case no. Itâs not possible for a medication to be somehow stuck in your fat cells. I would need evidence to believe that. If itâs a theory you feel strong about I think you should get one of your docs/hookups that you mentioned to find a way to test that theory. Has to be a way to test your system for it to rule the theory in or out.
Keep us updated on your situation. If it goes away or not ectâŠ
Also why do you think itâs logical to stay on the propecia?
I under stand you did not have pFS symptoms until adding avodart on top of propecia. But still is it smart to stay on Any DHT inhibiter at this point?
Are you worried that coming off of propecia could make your current crash worse?
Or u just willing to take the risk to avoid hairloss?
Lastly how is your DHEA treatment going?
I just started taking DHEA my self after reading your first few posts. I have been taking 100 mg for the last 3 days. So far I have noticed a little difference in ED. Question is, is it placebo effect or not. Still too early to tell but I think it is doing something.
Now I know you donât need to worry about the high levels of Dhea that you are taking shutting down your T production because you are on HRT.
But do you think for someone like my self who is not on TRT or HRT should I need to worry about dhea shutting down my natural T production?
Like I said I donât want to fuck up the one thing I have been able to fix which is my good natural T levels.
Itâs clear you know a lot about dhea. There is a reason as soon as you had this problem you went right on dhea. So itâs cleAr you know a lot about it
Good to hear back from you 5 alpha, I donât know if you read, but I was an executive of an anti aging company, I have extensive knowledge in anti aging stuff, as well as medicine and hormones. I did go to an Endocrinologist today only to be told that I know more than he does. However, I have a world renowned HRT doctor I am seeing in a week, he seems unconcerned with my symptoms, he believes they will resolve in time. So far I am slowly getting better at a rate of perhaps the depletion of Avodart from my system, it is my hope that this is the case. For the moment I am not going on Propecia, I just had hair transplants which have yet to grow, so I am just dealing with the hair loss, it is not yet visible, but am losing like 20 hairs a day. This tells me on day 12 off of Avodart at roughly 10% depletion per week that my body has started producing some DHT again, perhaps the same levels as before I was on test.
Even though you have good Test levels, they are not optimum, my HRT doctor believes in 1200, and no, this problem with this syndrome as I can understand it seems to have very little to do with Testosterone. I am convinced that Avodart is continuing to block the conversion of Testosterone to DHT in my body, and only slowly reversing. The muscle twitching has gotten better, something about being on HRT is much better than natural test, hard to explain, even though all the effects of Test are virtually gone now, well, they have come back to about 20% I would say, maybe 30%.
First of all, you are taking far too little DHEA, the reason I went on DHEA immediately was because DHEA is different in that it seems to work similarly to DHT. Based on the recent research article about PFS, it seems that a theory exists that damage is done by androgen deprivation. So the key is in my mind, to limit the Androgen deprivation on our bodies, I am doing that now with high doses of DHEA. I am taking 200mg 3 times a day, but I plan to increase that, I have researched doses and found that super high doses have been safely used. Since PFS can potentially cause us to kill ourselves, I am not too concerned right now with safety, as I believe this syndrome generally resolves itself at a maximum of 4 years based on all the stories I have read on this forum. That is by the way consistent with what a pharmacist told me at Avodart, that 1% of people in their studies resolved after 4 years.
Most people seem to resolve after 1 year from Avodart problems, DHEA at high doses has almost made me normal again for a few hours till it wears off. I wouldnât worry about messing up your hormones, the only way you will regain quality of life is through a very good HRT doctor. I donât plan to sit around trying potions and Voodoo and waiting for a treatment or cure. I advocate we all go to doctors until one finds something, remember we are all smart here and a lot of us have done a lot of research, there are young and smart doctors like us who can come up with better ideas.
My HRT doctor is super versed in hormones and so I am convinced whatever is wrong he can fix, I am also uncertain that everyone here is suffering from the same problem. It seems that as my DHT comes back, my symptoms decline, from what you told me and your response to DHEA, I wonder if DHT would help you. My HRT doctor doesnât want me going on it as he said it would make me break out and lose my hair, he believes this will resolve itself as time goes by, in my case it is still too early.
I forget how long you said you have been suffering from this, but if you said 4 years from what I remember, you should be at an HRT doctor. You shouldnât worry about screwing up your hormones, they already are screwed up, otherwise things would be working. I have read recovery stories from this forum and the trend seems to be about 1-4 years. I believe that can be sped up with HRT, and I do believe that these drugs are stuck in our bodies, that theory has NEVER been addressed. There is no drug that exists with a half-life as long as Avodart, did you know that?
If Avodart has a 5 week half life and a 10 week till elimination and then trace amounts for up to 6 months, why canât its sister Finasteride have the same time frame for some people? Your body is not converting Testosterone to DHT, just like mine currently isnât doing and is slowly starting to. Some on here have said they all tried DHT creams, but I have not heard of any trying them under the supervision of an HRT doctor. I know that sounds silly, but there are other things that perhaps have to be matched, like the guys who tried DHT, were their test levels optimal as well?
5 alpha, try taking larger doses of DHEA, 200mg 3 times a day, the effects donât last long, about 3 hours in my experience. I know as my muscles pump up when I take it and then a few hours later they deflate to their current state which is better than it was 12 days ago. Also, I have read a study done on young guys with high doses of creatine, first 25mg for 7 days to establish a baseline and then 5mg every day and their DHT levels increased by 50%!. I started creatine half a week ago and am on 25mg a day, according to the endo I saw today, that is safe. As I said though, who cares, I believe that once you get your body responding again, it may just fix itself, or it can be maintained with hormones.
If you were to consistently take DHEA all day and before bed, you would notice marked improvements, why is that? That is because DHEA operates similarly to DHT, I believe it even converts into DHT, there have been times I have felt all better from it, which was why I have been going back and forth. My HRT doctor told me if I injected more test I would make things worse, I have yet to ask him why, I will when I see him, so he seems to be familiar with what is going on in my body.
Testosterone is now being recognized as a pro-hormone, a precursor to DHT, in trying to block DHT, we have all made a grave error. If only we had known, I remember a few weeks ago in my mind at the gym saying âI donât care if I shut off all my DHT,â I just didnât know, I was too concerned with fixing my oily skin. You say your skin was oily and is not oily, so genetically you must be like me, that also occurred, DHT is responsible for that via the 5 alpha reductase II enzyme, that was what I had intended to block. I just did not factor in the consequences, I figured that I could stop the drug and all would return to normal. You must take into account that you were on a drug with the longest half life of any drug in the freakin world.
It is a strange thing for me to inject testosterone and feel worse, but last time I injected for a while I felt a little better, I think my body was able to produce more DHT this time. The focus should be on DHT, for those it did not work on, how long did they take DHT? Maybe they needed to take it steady for 6 months to respond, along with testosterone? Well, I will find out if that is as I theorize my problem, Monday I am getting my blood levels tested, one of the levels will be DHT, if it is low, it will tell me that I am still suffering from the effects of Avodart. Have you had your DHT tested 5 alpha? Are you currently seeing a hormone specialist? You need to, this is devastating and debilitating, I am not like other people, I am known to solve problems, complex problems. I am extremely smart and resourceful, I will drop everything and mono focus on a problem till it is solved, this problem will be solved.
Right now the key is sparing my body from androgen deprivation damage (based on the latest study shared on this forum). I might also add that DHEA has been used for a wide variety of diseases, the reason I never took it before was because I produced so much DHT that DHEA would just make me break out worse. Since I am not breaking out like before, who cares, DHEA is actually an anabolic steroid, so get on Creatine 25mg every day for 7 days then 5mg a day along with DHEA at least 3 times a day at a minimum of 200mg each time. People with Chronic Fatigue syndrome have taken that much a day, this is far worse.
Avodart is 100X stronger than Finasteride, and people like you and me seem to be extremely responsive to it, how do you know that you are not still responding to trace amounts in your body preventing the conversion of test to DHT? So for now my main theory is that I am suffering from DHT deficiency, so far everything seems to match up, the blood test will show, and I recon that you also are suffering from low DHT. I jerk off every day and ejaculate normal, but my drive is like before I was on testosterone, and my body and everything is behaving like before I was on testosterone, but I am on it, so this is the only plausible explanation. If I fully recover, it should provide insight into others here, how can I have all the same symptoms only for it to turn out to be caused by Avodart? I pray that this does go away and that it is as I think.
Unfortunately there is little info on Avodart and people having been on it and then recovering etc⊠Itâs potent as hell, it blocks 95% of DHT, within hours of dating my first pill my oily skin shut down by prob 95%, so I donât believe that my body is fucked up yet. I believe I have this freakin poison still in my system blocking the conversion. The only reason it is probably taking you longer is because you are operating with natural testosterone which fluctuates and is not as high, thus less DHT production. I also will note that a doctor that people mention on here (forget his name) said that âthese guys need super high doses of testosterone,â that tells me that is because their bodies arenât producing enough DHT or not doing it efficiently.
This sucks, but I am not ready to resign myself, so far the main symptom I am having are my muscles not being able to recover and are smaller. However, I am better today than I was 12 days ago, you said you are not losing hair, again that sounds like you arenât producing DHT, no hair loss, no oily skin, now I donât know if the hair loss and oily skin is being caused by DHEA, but I have moved past the point of trying to find out. I need something to get me by till this goes away, and DHEA will not screw with your hormones, it actually is a separate hormone that most guys are deficient in anyway.
PS. I plan to start carrying DHEA around with me, I am going to live off the shit right now, it seems to be replacing my DHT to an extent, but as I said, it doesnât last for more than a few hours. I took it about 30 mins to an hour ago about 200mg and I am feeling a lot better, it really helps with mood. So that is going to be my medicine till I see my HRT doctor next week and figure out what is going on etc⊠I am desperate so if I found something that is helping me, I am taking it. There are some injectable steroids that operate like DHT, I plan to look into those as well once I find out what is going on. There is also the possibility that another DHT pathway must be utilized, there are other hormones that do that, but one step at a time, for me right now as I said many times, I believe it is DHT. Sorry, I tend to repeat myself when I am stressed out like now!!
Justquitdut
I like the idea that you are making it clear that you feel you are one hundred percent certain that this problem is in result of testosterone not converting to DHT even after discontinuing the DHT inhibiters. I feel that I an am one hundred percent certain of this as well. Couple of things. I noticed you mentioned that DHT conversion takes place via the 5 alpha reductase type 2 enzyme in the skin. I think you may be mistaken. Testosterone to DHT conversion in the skin (with the exception being the scalp) takes place via 5 alpha reductase type 1. This is why the DHT inhibiter accutane is giving to people for the purpose of treating acne. Accutane attacks the 5 alpha reductase type 1 enzyme which is why it treats acne in the skin but at the same time does not stop hair loss or shrink the prostate because those are things that the 5 alpha reductase type 2 enzyme needs to be blocked In order to be occur.
Avodart is a dual action DHT inhibiter meaning it blocks type 1 and 2 5AR. But yea regardless of fact that Some members did not get improvement by using DHT meds or why some members have normal DHT readings is a mystery at this point. I have some ideas. I think it because when you measure DHT via blood sample itâs measuring the total Amount of DHT in your blood stream. We know there are several places in the body that T-DHT conversion occurs. Such as the liver, the skin, the prostate and the brain. My theory is that DHT coming from the skin or the liver although puts DHT in are blood stream has little or no use to use for are ability to have normal sexual function. In other words when it comes do DHT itâs not how much is in are blood itâs how it got their. For us to not have ED, watered down sperm and weak orgasm are prostates need to produce massive amounts of DHT via the 5 alpha reductase type 2 enzyme. I have made a post before using this explanation. For the purpose of Are prostates and dicks to be able to use DHT thatâs where the DHT production needs to come from. After all what do we know avodart does, like any other 5 alpha reductase type 2 DHT inhibiter it blocks DHT production in the prostate. I think my production of DHT in the prostate shut off and never turned back on. Again just a theory as to a way to explain at least how PFS caused ED (not all the other pfs symptoms) like you said we probable do not all have the same thing wrong with us.
I am by no means trying to say you are wrong about these DHT inhibiters somehow getting stuck in are systems but In my case I know thatâs not what my problem is. I know this because I actually took avodart when I was 22 years old for an extremely inflamed prostate. ( why urologist gave me avodart is a whole different story for a different time. For now well just say he does not deserve to be a doctor). But anyways I took the avodart for one month when I was 22 years old. I had no symptoms of PFS at all until I was 26 years old. What sparked my symptoms of pfs was when I took saw palmetto for less than 2 weeks when I was 26 years old. Itâs like the avodart damaged my bodyâs ability to convert T-DHT but not enough for me to have symptoms of pfs. It was the saw palmetto that finished the job. This sounds like your situation: you took propecia for a while which probable did damaged you but not enough for you to get symptoms. The avodart finished the damage the propecia did. Itâs like for every guy the amount of DHT inhibiter that it takes to cause this is different for everyone.
Read this thread, itâs from the theories section on this website. Itâs an anonymous posters opinion on how to fix this problem. This person sent emails to mew (one of the administrators of this website, claiming they are a doctor and only wanted to talk to mew). Interested to hear what you think of this as it seems to me one of the most logical theories on this website. It talks About needing to stimulate DHT production via the 5 alpha reductase type 2 enzyme in specific areas such as the prostate. The link is as follows:
Justquitdut, also wanted to see what you think:
This is a link that talks about a product called androhard. I am sure you have heard of it. It recently got banned. This link claims the active ingredient in androhard is some type of super dose of dhea that is delivered through a special high absorbable delivery system. In other words according to the bellow link all androhard is, is a very high dose of Dhea. I wanted to get your opinion on what you think the difference is between androhard and a regular dhea product. Of course the importance of this is that we know androhard can shut you down. So if androhard is a high dose of dhea than why canât dhea shut you down as well.
Justquitdut, lastly wanted to see what you have to say about this
This Is a link from the recoveries section of this website. Itâs from a member whoâs username is CDnuts. He claims he cured himself using several different methods ranging from fasting, taking T-boosters and taking androhard. He thinks the androhard was key to him curing him self. He believed the presence of androhard in his body increased 5 alpha reductase type 2 activity. Interested to see what you think of that.
I think you are right about the dhea. I really do, even though this is only my 4th day taking it my experience thus far confirms some of the things you have experienced. For starters how it kicks in really fast after taking it and how you need to take high doses for it to work.
This past wen I took 100mg all at once (which was my first time ever taking dhea) and about 15 min after I could feel more of a connected type of feeling between my brain and dick. It also seemed like it only lasted a few hours .
My second day on Thursday I spaced 100 mg through out the day taking 25 mg in the morning ect⊠And felt nothing.
My third day (Friday) I did the same thing and felt nothing. So after reading your last post last night I said fuck it and took 100mg dhea right before going to sleep and woke up feeling good with more of a Connected feeling.
So clearly this dhea is acting as DHT In are bodyâs.
But I am still extremely paranoid of taking DHT in high doses causing a shut down. It reminds me of androhard and we know androhard causes shut downs.
You are lucky you donât have to worry about that from being on HRT
5 alpha, thank you for the articles, I think it is great we communicate through this forum so others can read our experiences and research. Luckily I have a top HRT doctor, so I will share with you my experiences with him etc⊠I read all the article and saved it in my notes for a protocol if I do not recover fully, but before I respond to that let me say a few things as I tend to be bad at keeping my thoughts in order in forums lol. First of all, definitely fuck it with respect to being afraid of shutting things down, look, you are suffering from a devastating condition, if it has lasted now 3 years, but I do not believe mine is permanent. I have only been off Avodart for 2 weeks and based on the research I read, I believe this damage has to do with Androgen depravation causing systemic damage of some kind. Since I am on Hormones (including by the way HCG which prevents testicular shut down from testosterone), it may just be doing enough to stave off that damage.
However, let me quote something I read last night, it is the first thing and only thing I have found to explain the fact that my muscles are not able to recover or grow currently, I am not sure if I am shrinking or if it is just that I am not able to respond to conditioning. In other words, I think the testosterone I am taking is maintaining what I had, so thankfully I had a good amount of muscle to start with, so if I can at least keep that till this poison leaves my system, I believe I will be ok. I calculate at the rate of Avodart depletion of 5 week half life 50% decline, 10% a week, roughly 1% a day, a very slow recovery which is strange. Waiting for a drug to leave your body at 1% a day mirrors recovering from an illness or a disease, it is so gradual that it is difficult to notice.
First let me quote what I read
Note: Contrary to finasteride, which is highly selective for the type II isoform of the 5-ar enzyme, dustasteride, which has been found to reduce circulating DHT levels by >90% is a pan-5-ar inhibitor. It is thusly no wonder that 0.5mg/day of dustasteride prevented the increase in lean mass in female-to-male transsexuals who were treated with 1,000mg testosterone-undeconate for 54 weeks (Meriggiola. 2008).
Although testosterone and not DHT appears to be the major hormonal driving force of actual increases in muscular size (not strength!), the results of the Meriggiola study, where the total (>90%) blockade of all three of the 5-ar isoforms by dustasteride (see red box, above) inhibited the muscle-building effects of 1,000mg testosterone-undeconate clearly suggest that the reduction of at least small amounts of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone is a necessary prerequisite for the testosterone-induced increases in lean muscle mass. Whether a critical threshold as for circulating DHT levels exists, or whether it was the dustasteride induced blockade of the local reduction of testosterone to DHT by 5-ar type III right in the skeletal muscle that was responsible for this effect will yet have to be established in future studies.
So these female to male transsexuals could not gain muscle mass, which directly contradicts a FRAUDULENT study that Avodart came out with claiming that while on Avodart men could still gain muscle mass on testosterone. I believe that was a fraudulent study, I don't buy that for a second, not based on my experiences, and these transsexuals prove it. Look, a study not done to help Avodart manufacturers, but done for other reasons shows the truth, it prevents muscle growth.
Were I you, I would not worry about shutting anything down, it baffles me why you aren't on HRT, if I remain like this indefinitely I could become suicidal. So I will take whatever I have to to recover, already I had accepted being on testosterone for the rest of my life, because it makes you look super hot to women (and men). It changes everything, natural testosterone just doesn't do what injectable test does, building muscle in your jaw and face and pumping up your body and mood and pheromones. Alas, none of that is currently working, but I believe because I was on Test and still am, it may as I said be preventing this from being permanent, so right now my DHT production is simply suppressed. Remember that Avodart has the second longest half life of any drug ever designed!! Ever!
So who is to say that for the same reason that Avodart happens to have a 5 week half life, that other drugs that do the same thing might also have a long half life on certain individuals who are genetically predisposed to respond to this drug class? I have read stories on this site, and I read CDnuts story by the way, and it coo-berates my theory, notice he fasted for 1 week. The first thing I thought when I read that was that he starved himself and his body burned through his fat and thus whatever of the drug he took that was left in his fat or wherever else, think about it.
DHEA does not shut anything down, it is different from other hormones, you are 29 years old, you should stop worrying about damaging yourself and start thinking about fixing yourself. Just because a lot of guys on this site have problems that may be similar, doesn't mean they all have the same problems, or that it is all the same condition. Let us also take into account that when Finasteride was studied, 13% of the PLACEBO subjects had lower DHT serum levels in their scalp, explain that! Belief is a powerful thing, in fact more so now that we are understanding it than we thought before.
There is a lot we just don't understand about belief and energy etc.. So many here maybe manifesting a disorder to be worse than it is by believing so. There are so many people on this site that are just ready to give up and refuse to believe in anything or that anything can be fixed. You mentioned you had an issue with your prostate, who knows if it caused some underlying damage that Saw Palmetto simply finished off. 100mg of DHEA is too low, you should be taking 200MG 3 to 4 times a day, if you do that you will have a great improvement, I wouldn't worry about shutting anything down. You are 29 years old and your hormones are already screwed up, the older you get the worse they will get, even if you had no problems, sorry to tell you. I recommend HRT for any guy who can afford it after age 28 or so, and as for DHT shutting down Test production, that substantiates my theory that the guys on this site who tried DHT were not on testosterone as well, and also they gave up too soon.
You may think I am crazy, and I very well maybe, but if Avodart gets out of my system and my body returns to normal, I will go back on finasteride as I was doing fine before I went and started messing with Avodart. I don't want to lose my hair from being on testosterone, but I will also try to get by without it if possible and maybe keep doing hair transplants, already had them done twice, recovering now from the last time, I am not sure yet what I will do about that situation yet, right now I have enough hair still, and will be growing more with the transplants.
5 alpha, you seem like a nice and smart and reasonable guy, I have already started to recover, my ejaculations are relatively normal but prob about 50% less ejaculate than before. I may be quitting my DHEA just because I want to be aware of my recovery and know if I am getting better on my own etc.. That and the fact that I started losing hair and breaking out lol. Creatine at 25mg for 7 days then 5mg a day has been shown to increase DHT production by 50%, so I am doing that. As for DHEA though, I go back and forth, because it helps a great deal when I use it. At the doses I told you, I actually at times feel like the Avodart is out of my system.
I think at this point that your problems are not the same as others here, as mine too, I believe you simply are hormone deficient. You need to find a good HRT doctor near you and go on whatever, if DHT is needed, then go on it. If I don't get better, I am going on DHT, but my HRT doc seems to think I will be fine, so he doesn't want me to go on it at this point as it will make me break out and lose hair. Try what I told you with the DHEA, also start the creatine as I told you, I read it in a study. Let me ask you a question, do you have muscle twitches? I got them from Avodart, but they are a lot better today than they were a couple weeks ago, they occur usually at night. When I was on Avodart I had a strange taste in my mouth, that has subsided as well.
While I understand this forum, I do believe it can make things worse for us all, someone on the internet posted something that made me laugh. In the hair loss forums they often reference this site and say "Oh please, now you are going to mention Propeciahelp," and someone asked what it is and someone else wrote that it was a site with a bunch of "hypochondriacs," lol. I don't know about you, but I am a hypochondriac, so I wonder about others on here, that certainly doesn't help the situation.
Also, who knows how long Saw Palmetto stays in the system, maybe this shit gets caught in certain parts of the body, who knows. The fact that your skin isn't oily anymore, tells me that you aren't producing enough DHT. Look, life is going to suck unless you do something about it, and stop worrying about damaging yourself, accept that you are damaged hormonally, and go get it treated. I'll never forget the feeling of going on testosterone, little did I know it was actually DHT doing that, but I sure hope it comes back. One thing is for sure, I won't be stuck like this for longer than the half life of this drug, at some point I will start going on DHT and stuff, but I don't think that will be necessary.
This is how I felt before I was on testosterone, some guys just have messed up hormones, maybe from propecia, maybe not. I am just not convinced I have this syndrome at this point as I am reacting as though I have Avodart in my system still working declining very slowly. So I am glad you are feeling better with the DHEA, I also theorize that some synthetic designer DHT injectables probably would do the trick too. The concept of replacing lost hormones is not new to me, I have been well versed in it for a long time, and preaching it. I just hope I don't have to replace another hormone long term, that's all, but life is short man, and testosterone made me feel and look 21 again and get lots of chicks and guys, I am not letting go of that. If I don't recover I am going to try that protocol in that thread you sent me, you should too.
The only thing you should be worried about is the result of not doing anything to fix yourself, 3-8 weeks I have, 3 weeks till I am at 50%. I expect by then to have significant improvements since I am on a high dose of test, I will keep you up to date with my progress. I'll tell ya what, time is going by slower, but I do think that thinking about it and going on this forum doesn't help at all, but I suppose sometimes you need to talk to someone who is going through the same shit you are, you know? Seems like you and I have similar experiences. Also, I have considered fasting, but since my body doesn't seem able to grow more muscle right now, I don't want to risk losing what I have!I also find the DHEA helps me when I have no energy nor will to get up, not sure if its because I brought my dating life to a halt (as well as my social life till I fix this shit) but when I take 200mg it helps me to feel better. I may take some now, I just have low energy today, and it does help.
Hi 5AR,
where is the evidence that Androhard caused shutdowns? with whom?
If that is your plan, do not bother posting here.
If you so somehow survive this why in the hell would you ever consider touching another 5ar? I was a normal happy guy before I touched this shit. Now death is looking like the only way out of this.
If someody thinks take this shit again, it means it didnt really CRASH. I know if i use just 1 pill again i would die.
Iâll gather the evidence I have found and post it as soon as I can. For now short answer to that question CDnuts reported being shut down by it and advised people if we were going to try it that we would need PCT.
Why would someone want to take pct after taking androhard if androhard canât shut down your natural testosterone production.
Androhard is known to convert to DHT in the body. People who have taken prescription DHT on this site have reported getting shut down. Go under theories section of this website and read about anonymous posters theory of using DHT to increase 5ar2 activity.
There you will read about members from back in 2009 who took DHT and got shut down.
Iâll post more direct proof about androhard shutting people down later.
Mew, I am new to this, you have to understand that there will be people who have gone on this to fight hair loss only to find themselves in this hell. I donât plan to go back on it, but I am incredibly vain, I was already constantly doing things to keep myself looking good. That was why I was so prepared to act quickly when this happened, I already had an array of doctors for cosmetic stuff and as I mentioned I was an executive of a plastic surgery and anti aging company in the past.
You guys are right though, why would I consider going back on anything like that after this hell, it has only been 2 weeks, I just want to be back where I was, everything was fine, wasnât loosing hair, had everything working, just had a problem with breaking out from testosterone. It is my hope that my experiences with this can help others here, and I pray I do recover.
Anyway, right now that is the last thing on my mind, but it was late at night and I was rambling on, my apologies, I have read your posts Mew, and have a great respect for you. You seem to be one of the older experienced members here, like someone everyone looks to for advice, so I didnât mean to offend.
Yeah dont do it. You would get new side effects.