Notna, I know your not a bad person and I would like to say I’m sorry for my previous posts. Hope you can accept my apology?
im sorry about the marryage thing 
i was just kidding. im accepting the apology
Let’s face reality guys, this condition has caused PTSD in all of us, so we must accept that sometimes we will go off the handle, hell, I just did with Dr Jacobs. We must stay focused though, I am close to a protocol that could help us all, let’s support each other and not fight, we need each other, otherwise we are alone in this.
I’m glad to see you guys are recognizing that PFS is the cause for our mental states and being able to forgive. This was a very hard part of my own experience. I became very negative, bitter, resentful, hyper-sensitive to criticism, and aggressive/defensive. It took a lot of work, study, reading and therapy to change my pattern of thought. I’m learning to focus on the positive and being grateful. It’s not easy. But I’ve reached a point where I am no longer angry about things. No exactly happy yet, and anhedonia is still there, but at least the internal struggle is easing up.
Towm8, I hear you are seeing Dr Goldstein, have you ever considered Masteron? It has resolved all of those problems, given me joy and sexuality and function and muscle back. The only remaining issue is estrogen dominance which I am going to work with Jacobs to find a way to control. The Masteron must be used with very low doses of testosterone.
Update: After dr Jacobs’ suggestion of aromasin I have been able to control the estrogen dominance. Now I can see that the majority of the effects of the damage to the 5ar system not reducing test to dht (which regulates estrogen and results in most of our test being aromatized) are caused by estrogen dominance. It would seem that without the steady flow of the 5ar enzymes constantly reducing test to dht, there is no estrogen regulstion hormone in place. Yes the body keeps an amount of dht at all times active, the body even stores excess dht as a prohormone rather than destroying it. So the fundamental problem with pfs all along has been this estrogen dominance, without the 5ar conversion process working, we are being not only exposed to our test mostly being aromatized, but to make matters worse, there isn’t enough steady flow of dht to regulate it.
If only I had known 6 months ago what I know now, I could have saved myself misery. The “crashes,” that we experience are all estrogen dominance. If you look at the side effect profile for estrogen prescription you will see they mirror our crashes.
Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor, it binds to estrogen enzymes and takes them out, it’s the only AI that has worked for me. However, I advise people to start out with more mild AI’s before going this route. Also, bare in mind I’m on testosterone, the idea that pfs is some kind of non responsive hormone receptors is ludicrous. We all respond to hormones, we just can’t reduce test to dht, and when you use synthetic dht you further suppress your own dht which without a potent AI results in a mega estrogen dominance attack or a “crash.” This crash is fully reversible with anti estrogen drugs, the question is how much, which drugs etc…
I have stopped the dht with this new found knowledge and am allowing my own body to respond to test while I keep estrogen under control (now that I can). I had my own dht at a pretty good working level before I took dht, the problem was estrogen dominance which drowned out my dht and I mistook it for soley low dht. I know that if my dht doesn’t recover to a sufficient point that I can take dht and benifit greatly from it.
Dr Jacobs is in agreement, so my protocol is now 25mg a day of aromasin snd testosterone, and we shall see what happens. i have pfs in reverse now for a month, there is no such thing as a “pfs crash,” it’s just estrogen, lots of it, it’s fully reversible by killing estrogen.
If hormones are not used with this condition you risk your body feminizing and suffering damage from estrogen exposure and androgen deprivation. In this case with this condition, doing nothing is dangerous, estrogen is a dangerous hormone when unregulated. Those here who advocate not taking hormones are mostly in the UK with a medical system geared towards keeping the masses healthy. They lack anti aging medicine and so their country is very much behind with hormone replacement therapy. For some reason guys in the UK have a terrible fear of hormones, I’m not sure why other than ignorance as they are perfectly safe and healthy.
In our case doing nothing is like going on female hormones, some of you with naturally high testosterone levels should be able to benefit from the correct dose of an anti estrogen. You will possibly still suffer from low dht thoigh, it will be then that you decide if dht replacement is right or not. The idea that we are non responsive to hormones is absurd, we respond to them, quite simply we are just not reducing enough test to dht and it is mostly being aromatized into estrogen.
I’m not sure how many more updates I will be posting, I have grown tired of the ignorance and rude guys on this forum. Arguing with them is taxing and they seem bent on only insulting others. Soon I may move on, but not before I share my end result protocol, I’m going to wait 2 months and see if my body can produce enough dht on its own that is acceptable to me, if not then I will add dht.
So it seems like you’ve landed where I ended up with Dr. Jacobs: a regimen of T injections and aromatase inhibitors. For me, this didn’t work. We tried all sorts of different combinations – high T, light on the Aromasin; low T, high on the Aromasin, etc. But there was no response. (Except for the very first T injection, which worked on and off for 2 weeks – but after that, nine months of tinkering yielded nothing.) This is why I stopped seeing Jacobs. He believes strongly that this is mainly about hitting a sweet spot with the T/E ratio. Maybe it is for you, and if so, I’m glad for you. But it’s not for me – and, I think, a lot of other guys on here.
It depends, you may not produce enough DHT, this condition limits your ability to convert testosterone to DHT, I happen to produce a lot, that was how I ended up in this mess, I was trying to limit it to control oily skin and acne. If you were to go on Masteron you would have a full reversal, Mastering reversed PFS for me completely when I had estrogen controlled and testosterone levels good.
The reason you did not recover is you do not produce enough DHT, Dr Jacobs is not familiar with DHT replacement therapy, you won't find a doctor who is unfortunately. It also took a lot of AI to get my estrogen under control 12.5mg of Arimidex a day which was ridiculous, but it worked, so I knew I couldn't be on it for very long, that was when I switched to 25mg of Aromasin, it gets the job done.
Have you tried Masteron to replace your DHT? I recommend Masteron propionate 50mg every other day for 2 weeks till you start to feel your libido and sexual function. Also you will want to take HCG 1000mcg a week to keep estradiol up and Aromasin 25mg a day and testosterone 0.5cc a week. That will completely reverse PFS, you may have to tinker with the doses, I would have stayed on Masteron, but I just want to see how I do with Aromasin 25mg a day and testosterone with out DHT replacement.
Dr Jacobs is not familiar with anti aging hormone replacement protocols, it was that field of medicine which reversed this. Also I did not depend on Dr Jacobs for my doses, he is too conservative, I just started taking them myself and when it worked and I told him he then agreed with me and suggested I keep at 25mg a day. I mean I know where he is coming from, he has to be careful, but I have been studying hormones for years, so I knew what to do.
What AI were you taking and what doses? What form of test and what doses and how frequent? From what I have read he prescribes testosterone in a very old fashioned minimal way, not enough to be effective for this. It's not his fault, he isn't an anti-aging doctor, he deals in hormonal problems, it is difficult to treat this unless you are going through it yourself, that is how I managed to reverse this.
When I came to Dr Jacobs I had already been on high doses of Arimidex and Nolvadex, I did not know about Aromasin, he suggested Aromasin always works, it did the same job but at a safer dose. I seriously doubt you were on as much test as me or AI, if you were you would have felt better and if not then the Masteron added to the combo would work.I am using Dr Jacobs so that he can monitor my levels and make sure all is safe, and most importantly he believes in this and has studied it. I have had PFS reversed before I met him, I just as I wrote did not want to be my own doctor, and the final piece to this puzzle was controlling estrogen. No doctor in his right mind would tell you to take 12mg of Arimidex, I did it because I had nothing to lose, it worked, which lead me to feel something stronger was needed. 25mg of Aromasin is a cure for a PFS crash, a PFS crash is estrogen dominance. I already have got one PFS sufferer reversed and am working on another who is well known here, once he is reversed the news will spread and I can help others. The fact is, you can take all the test you want, but if it isn’t being converted enough to DHT it won’t do much, even with estrogen under control, Dr Jacobs doesn’t know about DHT replacement, I have never met a doctor who did. It just so happens I taught myself over the course of the past 6 months.
Exactly – Jacobs sees only T and E levels as being implicated in this. Clearly in my case, there’s more at work, and besides suggesting “stress,” he didn’t seem to have much interest in exploring this, which I why I stopped seeing him.
We were using a pretty aggressive AI regimen. Initially, it was 1mg/day of Arimidex with varying levels of T. This was a lot of Arimidex (bodybuilders maybe use 1mg a week) and it did control my E levels, at least according to blood work. But I basically didn’t feel T at all. Then we tried Aromasin at 25mg daily. And while this definitely smashed my estrogen, it again did nothing to make me feel better.
I am definitely feeling estrogenic effects. Besides sexual issues, my body has been feminized in the last 2+ years. It’s disgusting and humiliating. This is why I was interested in what you were writing before about DHT and Masteron (and even HGH precursors before that). Seemed to be taking it in a direction beyond what I did with Jacobs. If it was as simple as supplementing T and controlling for estrogen, there’d be a lot more cures here, because that’s a pretty standard protocol and a lot of guys here have tried it.
I never said I believed test and estrogen control was enough, it may be in my case, it may not be, but DHT replacement will reverse this, however it will not work unless estrogen is under control. I am not using Dr Jacobs to over all cure me, I did that on my own, I am using him to have a doctor that recognizes my condition and help control my estrogen and make sure that my levels are safe on these protocols.
I have been studying hormones for more than 6 years and working with them, the biggest mistake you can make is thinking that because body builders use a dose that it is high. We are not body builders and our systems do not respond like them, it took me 12mg of Arimidex to reverse a PFS induced testosterone crash from 1cc (200mg) of test enanthate a week.
Aromasin worked in the end, I am not sure how much testosterone you were using, but from what I have seen Dr Jacobs is extremely conservative with testosterone and does not use HCG. It is essential that you use 1000mcg of HCG a week to keep up estradiol and natural test production. Dr Jacobs was not familiar with this protocol, I need him for his expertise in estrogen.
Ultimately I was able to reverse PFS with Masteron, Masteron is so powerful that even before I had my estrogen levels under control I had a MEGA libido and MEGA erections, as well as increased muscle size. I recommend you go on 25mg of Aromasin a week and try 100mg-200mg of test cypionate a week, try that for a month and see if you have any improvements, you should. If you do not, then you have to add Masteron, start with Masteron propionate 50mg every other day, give it a couple weeks, it will take a good 3 weeks to see any improvements with Masteron, maybe 4 weeks. After you notice improvements from Masteron (probably by the second or third week) switch to the long acting Masteron Enanthate at 100mg a week or 2 times a week.
For some reason synthetic DHT doesn’t work right away, I feel that my body had to recognize it, get used to it and use it. I just quit it to see how I do on my own with the estrogen under control, I know I can release good amounts of DHT, but the Estrogen dominance always annihilated it. If with Aromasin I can maintain normalcy on testosterone without Masteron I will do that, if I don’t feel as I did on Masteron, I will simply go back on.
The only last piece of the puzzle for me was controlling estrogen, Arimidex is simply not strong enough, forget body builder doses, remember that they have a functioning 5AR system, ours is fucked. I will give you an example, I was on Arimidex before I had PFS, you could say I was kinda into body building, but not like a body builder, 0.5mg of Arimidex every other day would be enough to kill my libido and dry me out. Post PFS even doses of 12mg a day were only enough to create problems with my joints, but I felt normal otherwise.
Aromasin doesn’t seem to be causing me any side effects, it seems to be a miracle drug for estrogen control with this condition. I have noticed far too many guys on here have tried hormones and when they don’t work they give up after a week or a month, hormones do not work that quickly. It took me 6 months to figure out the correct doses and protocols. I won’t deny that I was believing that I was non responsive to hormones for the first few months, it was hard for me to accept that Estrogen could be so powerful.
Doctors do not study or work with DHT as most guys do not need DHT replacement, testosterone induces 5AR which reduces test to DHT, in our case DHT may be required. You were probably not on enough testosterone, from what I read Dr Jacobs prescribes like 200mg of test every 23 days, that is not enough to do anything. It isn’t his fault, that is what Endo’s learn, using higher doses is part of anti-aging medicine. It required me using anti-aging medicine, body builder medicine and Dr Jacob’s input and combining them all to ultimately solve this.
When you are on Aromasin 25mg a day, you will no longer crash, once that estrogen dominance that you guys call “a crash” is under control, it leaves you free to experiment with more hormones. If you didn’t use 100mg to 200mg a week of testosterone on 25mg of Aromasin, that is why you did not have any response. If on those doses you had no response then Masteron should be used, but I seriously doubt dr Jacobs prescribed that much.
It is essential to be on the HCG as well at 1000mcg a week, if you follow this protocol you will reverse PFS, otherwise you are just allowing your body to feminize you. Estrogen is very dangerous, it is dangerous to do nothing about PFS, using hormones is safer than doing nothing. It will not inhibit your recovery, the guys in the UK are all afraid of hormones due to their socialized medical system. That being said, there are no recoveries I have seen from the UK, those guys are suffering the longest, the guys in the US are the recovery stories, all involve hormones to some degree.
Eventually your HPTA will recover if you get Estrogen under control and induce DHT, but you def need to be on hormones for the rest of your life after PFS. It seems to be a field of medicine that the UK is VERY behind on, the idea that hormones are dangerous was abandoned by US doctors at least 10 years ago. Testosterone prevents senility and diabetes, it does not cause heart problems. Heart problems occur when fat old men go on testosterone and think they are 21 again, don’t eat right or exercise and die.
Going on testosterone at an old age is very healthy if you go to the gym and keep your diet up, but test makes you carefree and older men with no understanding of these things think they are invincible. I changed my dad’s life with hormones, he is 68, I put him on test and told him he could only stay on if he used a personal trainer, now he is off all his medications, his health is exceptional, the doctors are amazed, so it all depends.
Generally the problem here is guys read posts from other guys saying this or that doesn’t work and they don’t try it, based on what you told me, I am not sure what you did would have worked for me either. You can’t wait for Dr Jacobs to tell you what to do, you have to experiment, you may need high doses.
Chi is from the UK. Kindly stop talking down to us.
Sorry, but where are all these US guys who recovered with hormones then? You do realise that both cdnuts and chi (who’s from the UK) never used hormones and have recovered? I’m assuming you’re not a complete thick cunt and have searched on the forum for all the dozens of other men using TRT (plus estrogen inhibitors) and DHT replacement and getting no sustainable improvement at all? And that probably the most vociferous pursuer of hormonal treatments on here, even including yourself, was a doctor from the UK who used TRT, HGH and DHT yet still didn’t get anywhere near normality?
Mind you at least he had PFS. He wasn’t some guy who took dut, had side effects on the drug, then started pumping himself full of hormones within a couple of days, even though the half life of dut (translation for you: time it takes drug to leave system and body to revert to normal) is a few weeks and he would just have recovered naturally without doing anything anyway…
No. He has done no forum searches. He is just arrogant and thinks he is breaking new ground. Which he obiously is not hence he is injesting suicidal amounts of arimidex (12 mg/day).
JQD: eveything you are doing has already been done 100x. If it works for you then congrats. Howwever since you continue to post incessantly it is unlikely you are getting better. Why? The guys who get better LEAVE the forum and get on with their lives after telling people what they did. Trolling may account for the behaiour too.
JN, used similar protocols. Had ups and downs. That’s better then me. I’m 100% shit all the time.
CHI, CFS gut theory, Nonsense.
CdNuts used OTC hormones that were strong enough to get banned. He never posted blood work.
So then try hrt mate. Chi modelled his recovery from jn btw. Who eventually quit all his hrt experiments and “recovered” via holistic approach. Feel free to cheerlead once you have tried it
Yeah, Jacobs insisted that HCG was not necessary for me, so I wasn’t on it. He did experiment for a while with giving me massive, supraphysiological T levels – I got mine up to 1,800 at one point. His thought was that going so high might jar my system into responding with an extra-high T/E ratio. We also tried very conservative dosages/frequencies too. And I was on Arimidex daily through all of it – and then, eventually, Aromasin.
You’re also right that he sees no role for DHT supplementation. On a scale of 15-80, my DHT consistently tested at around 26, even while on T. I believe this is low. Like most of my other levels, it’s technically normal, but definitely on the low end of the scale. But he shrugged that off and said that as long as it’s in range, it’s not an issue. So he never pursued any kind of Andractim/Masteron treatment as part of the plan. Needless to say, I’m very interested in pursuing it now. Towm8er, who’s seen Goldstein, has written of getting some real results with Andractim, which is apparently part of the Goldstein protocol.
Jqd says “hormonal treatments take months to work” 3 posts up. Precisely. He then continues to post with thrice daily updates. And takes 12 mg of arimidex. Fruitcake. Keep in mind that plenty of guys have gotten WORSE by pumping hormones/inhibitors into themselves. Do you really want to believe a guy who contradicts himself daily. claiming hormones take long term to work while taking HOURLY doses of arimidex in a futile, deperate attempt to drag himself out of hell.
If you are confused read jn s thread. He continuously pumped junk into himself before proclaiming gut pathogens were the issue.
Jqd…keep posting
I don't know who you are reffering to, I took accutane, was on finasteride for 13 years and crashed on avodart, I had already been on hormones for 3 years and they stopped working when I crashed. After 6 months I figured out how to make them work correctly, the rules have changed.
CDnuts used hormones, he used DHT in the form of a prohormone (which means it's designed to pass through laws, it converts to dht through your liver). CDnuts pct therapy were supplemental versions of an AI and HCG. You guys just don't know what you are talking about, I'm sorry.. Oh yes of course because I found out how to get better I don't really have pfs, I forgot, what's the dogma again? Oh yes non response to hormones and recovery impossible and hormones don't work except with CDnuts who used hormones but because they were prohormones they weren't hormones right? LolTerrified, it’s not meant to be an insult, you guys are 10 years behind us or more, hormones are standard operating medicine in the US, you guys are all convinced they are deadly. The U.S. abandoned that thinking more than 10 years ago, doing nothing is like injecting yourself with estrogen. I mean no offense, but I’m living proof this condition can be reversed. The magic bullet was aromasin 25mg a day, killed the crashes so I could respond to testosterone. Supplemental dht works in this scenario if your natural dht is not sufficient.