I recommend you go to dr Goldstein then, I have sufficient hrt knowledge to treat myself, I'm using dr Jacobs for the estrogen, it's solved now. I don't believe I will need long term dht supplementation, we will see, but if I do at least it works. I have andractim, I never tried it as I had such amazing results with masteron. Injections are always better, you have to get estrogen under control and then inject test weekly, if you are non responsive still, then you need dht supplementation. Arimidex at extremely high doses was all that worked till I switched to aromasin 25mg a day.You consumed 12 mg of arimidex in one day.
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaa.
Gag.
As you said three posts up hormones take weeks to normalize and have an effect. Why the fuck would you consider an hourly dose? Desperation no doubt with a nice slice of delusion and pfs insanity. I know how it feels but i won’t be slamming 50 times the amount of arimidex that bodybuilder use. Hahahahahahahaha.
Keep posting jqd. Top class entertainment.
Well, that's what it took to control my estrogen, dr Jacobs was fully aware, I checked with him every step of the way, he never said it was unsafe. I switched to aromasin when I got it and it worked just as well. I'm recovered and you are still popping Xanax and posting abusive messages. I'm not a fucking coward like you, I didn't sit sround terrified about taking hormones or drugs to reverse this, I was brave and I tried everything till I reversed it. You sit around popping one Xanax after another going on drunken tirades on here and it is really sad. I don't see why I come here to be abused, I don't know what your deal is man.
You made a false dichotomy, estrogen can be controlled by the hour with arimidex, it takes weeks for synthetic dht to work. You are just a moron, I don't debate with morons, from now on no matter what you say you will be ignored, you are invisible to me.I m sorry man. Your intelligence regarding hormones is just a little too much for me and the other guys to follow sometimes. That’s why I get angry, and the others too. I m seeking help for my addictions. Pfs has lead me to sinister drug use which I m not proud of and it hurts me to hear you mock me about it. Please continue posting. I know deep down that great men like you, alone and in the absence of cowards like me, will eventually cure us of this nightmare.
Forgive me.
Well. You have to admit no one else has tried this. No doctor would advise it either. Is it any crazier then the doctors pumping people up to 1800 test levels to shock their system? Maybe they were making the E problems worse. Who knows. I think the autoimmune shit makes a lot more sense. My body has been eating itself.
Finbasteride, I feel for you, I am coming here because this has become my interest now, I am an obsessive problem solver. I have done nothing but study pfs and hormones for the past 6 months. I had nothing to lose, but I also am well versed in hormones. I know that not fixing this is more dangerous than taking things to fix it. I'm willing to help you if you are open, I have a have a horrible case of pfs. I don't believe anyone with extensive knowledge in anti aging hormones has ever got pfs before. Dr Jacobs only filled in the last piece of my puzzle. I assure you that I know how to control this condition and reverse it with hormones.
You don't have to suffer like this anymore, if you are willing I can help you, I have found that doctors treating this condition are using similar approaches but are missing key ingredients. I know how to get dht to work, I know which type of testosterone works. The key to reversing this condition lies first with lowering estrogen, after that you can then take testosterone without crashing, aromasin reverses and stops pfs crashes period. If you do not respond to test well enough then you add dht, but from what I have seen no doctor has used testosterone propionate.
I know hormones are scary if you don't know about them, but they are perfectly safe, body builders abuse ridiculous amounts of steroids for decades and they don't die. The real dangerous hormone is estrogen, new theories about cancer are changing. Men who get prostate cancer usually are older with lower dht, younger guys with high dht don't tend to get it. Androgen deprivation is the danger, and as I am getting my life back I must share this knowledge.
No one has ever had pfs while being on hormones and with extensive knowledge in anti aging medicine, I didn't just stop there, I combined it with body builder knowledge and de Jacobs' approaches. It's different when you actually have pfs yourself, dr Jacobs doesn't have it, I know more than any doctor I have ever met about hrt hormones. I'm not saying this to brag, it's a sad truth, and this condition is fully reversible.
Aromasin is 1 piece of the puzzle, the reason I took that much arimidex was to see if the estrogen theory was true. Arimidex is fast acting and not that strong, without going into details I just now know most of this is estrogen dominance. Some of you have suffered estrogen dominance for so long that your bodies have suffered androgen deprivation. It doesn't seem that tests show anything either, by starting an AI and being on it consistently, you can start to see some improvement. The problem is it is very tricky when dealing with your own hormones.
It is very hard if not impossible to fix this condition without replacing hormones, when replacing hormones you can control everything. You won't just be 100% again, you can be 150% and have hormones like when you were 21. I spent a lot of time, money, and energy at solving this, I'm willing for free to share my knowledge until everyone is familiar with what I am talking about. I know it's complicated, but you can learn, hormones won't kill you, anti estrogens won't kill you.
Doing nothing may kill you, I have already paid and seen what the top pfs doctors are doing, Goldstein is using an approach similar to mine, but he doesn’t know about masteron. Many of you won’t even need dht, it’s just about the right balance, it took me 6 months, 24 crashes, 4 doctors, but I reversed it, and no longer need dht. If you want to start I’m willing to start helping you, if you have some improvement, isn’t it worth it? What have you to lose? This is no longer theory, it’s something I put into practice.
Dr. Goldstein requires you visit his office in San Diego before he treats you. You are telling us within the past week you were able to schedule appointments with Dr. Jacobs and Dr. Irwig and traveled to both NYC and CA??? This doesn’t sound reasonable.
Goldstein has confirmed many post fin guys with reduced penile sensation. He tried to help with hormones. Minimal success. Nothing else does this. You can search all the forums you want. Not a single thing on the planet makes your dick shrink and go numb. Yet many of you buy the gut theory crap that Chi and JN descended into later into their mental disorder. Many of you also believe cdnuts story. He cycled hormones and kept a healthy diet. No gut parasites in his story but I’m sure you will reason that out somehow. It’s all a bunch of madness if you ask me. Just ridiculous, total madness. None of you guys can explain the vision problems. It has to be brain damage since all other physical structures test okay. How can parasites or pumping hormones fix that? Maybe some of you are less impacted, I don’t know. I can say if it’s all the same root cause your probably fucked for life. I don’t care if you eat grass, take hormones, and work out all fucking day.
I didn't go to New York, dr Jacobs treated me over the phone, I have not been to dr Goldstein after my condition reversed and I undestand why and what is doing it, I don't see the point. I did read lots of posts from people who went to Goldstein, so I'm familiar with what protocols he uses. No one seems to have used my protocol. I have been searching, it's not the protocol but the concept. Not everyone with pfs will take the same exact doses and hormones and drugs, It depends on the person.
The key is getting estrogen under control with aromasin, then crashing is no longer possible, then you can start to respond to testosterone. If after time you don't respond to testosterone propionate injected daily, then synthetic dht. Most should respond somewhat to test once they are taking 25mg aromasin, but that's the final ingredient.JustQUitDut,
I know that all of my text will be in vain and you will ignore. Even so, I will leave this message here any way.
The laboratories invest millions of dollars fighting symptoms and selling drugs when they should invest in the cause of the disease. how patient I think they should invest the money in the cure, but as a businessman I think we should invest in combating symptoms to sell drugs.
what would be the industry if there isn’t diseases? where would the jobs? who invest billions of dollars to cure a disease without having the financial return? nobody! they sell drugs for profit!
you’re paying a doctor and the laboratory are selling your product and profiting. this is a business. And here you are again buying new drugs. just as you did with propecia. Baldness? buy a pill, low testosterone? buy a pill. Depression? buy a pill. But now you have new side effects and may need to buy new drugs to combat the new symptoms.
do not you perceive that it is not more drugs that will get cured? when you break a bone, it is the doctor who heals? no! your body is the healer.
Please believe me!! we do not need any hormone for recovery. the root cause of this syndrome affects the entire body including hormones. the main causes are not hormones. you will not recover using hormones. I know it feels better with the hormones, anyone would feel good. anyone using a high dose of antidepressant will feel a wellness.
This is the big mistake!
do not confuse a pleasant effect of a drug with definite cure. injectable testosterone will make your testicles disappear. Your liver will be overloaded. and the effect will disappear with time. high estradiol is related to several diseases. You may be feeding a bomb about to explode. can be no going back.
I do not want to frustrate your attempts. you need to work the root cause. If I were you, I would not take any more these drugs.
I created a recovery routine based on diet. Please, take a look.
thanks for reading
Dude, are you really this stupid? I told you I had shrunken numb penis with zero sensitivity for months. It s now reversed so yes hormones can 1. Be responsible, and 2. Change. This involves hormones and receptors people. You keep talking without listening Mciboth, why are you so thick headed? As I said previously, I prayed someone would have sat me down and said, " in 2 years, you will have full sensitivity back, and it isn’t permanent"
Fuck that dude, I have reversed this condition 100%, before I had PFS I suffered low testosterone, going on testosterone changed my fucking life, I went from being skinny to buff and having dozens of women after me and feeling great. PFS made testosterone stop working, the only thing I have been interested in since I got PFS was finding out how to make testosterone work again and make myself feel better.
I already am on a healthy diet, I already work out, hormones decline with age, that is an irreversible truth, the myth that hormones are dangerous was given up 10 years ago in the US. My live is perfect, I get blood tests every few months by an anti-aging doctor who checks EVERYTHING, everything is perfect. Your logic is flawed, by taking nothing you are flooding your body with high amounts of estrogen, PFS causes your body to aromatize most of your testosterone, it doesn’t show up on tests that well, but AI’s reverse it.
Also, anti-depressants do not help PFS, I have been on them before, during, and after the crash, when I suffered PFS estrogen dominance, being on or off antidepressants would be the same thing. The suffering from PFS is so great that no drug alleviates it, only hormones. You are free to sit and grow old and be all natural, go for it man, I see all natural people all the time, the guys usually are super skinny and look sickly and they do all sorts of cardio and eat all vegan, often guys like that look like they have cancer!
You are touting BS that is just an excuse to NOT treat this condition, do you think it was easy for me to figure out how to reverse this condition? To study 24/7, to go to doctors, to suffer 24 different crashes till I figured this out? You may or may not recover naturally, but your hormone levels will never be the same as when you were 21. We have different goals, I prefer to maintain my hormone levels of that when I was 21, it is called anti-aging medicine. I have combined it with the knowledge I gained about PFS to reverse this condition.
The fuck if I am going to stop my hormones and sit back and wait for my body to maybe heal or not, NOTHING would have got me to quit testosterone before PFS, only PFS did by changing the rules of my body. Go do Yoga and eat grass and herbs, and when you come down with a serious life threatening illness you will run right to those hospitals and doctors and right to those money making pills that save your life.
Life is full of risks, every time you do anything you take a risk, and as for my nuts shrinking, this goes to show how primitive your knowledge is. HCG prevents testicular atrophy from testosterone use, it is standard operating procedure of all anti-aging doctors, it maintains normal testicular function. I haven’t been sick in 5 years, and I am surrounded by people who are always sick, HRT keeps me young and healthy.
I do not submit or give up to things, I grabbed PFS by the nuts and I fucking kicked it, and you want me to go back? Fuck you with all due respect, take your hippy bullshit and take it elsewhere, it is dangerous, I am trying to help people here.
Jqd, how do you describe the honeymoon periods people experience while on AIs, DHT, or test? If you search through the forum you will find many accounts of people following a method similar to yours only to have it fade off (not crash. Fade, there’s a difference).
Not trying to discredit your theory, would just like your take on this.
I have read them all, none of them were mysterious to me, there is no secret here, it isn’t rocket science to be honest. The higher your testosterone, the higher your estrogen is going to be as you do not produce enough DHT to regulate the estrogen, and your body is aromatizing most of your testosterone. So you have to learn that PFS crashes are estrogen, and modify your dose depending on your estrogen levels, you can feel this as it is panic, anxiety, muscle twitches, trouble taking deep breaths, water retention.
Also, all the guys went on testosterone like every 23 days for some reason, it is a very out dated protocol, and to my astonishment, none were on HCG simultaneously. I know Dr Jacobs is unfamiliar with anti-aging medicine, and he prescribes the same incorrect protocol. If you go on testosterone without HCG, you will have benefits at first, only your own testosterone will shut down and you will need more testosterone to compensate. HCG maintains your own testosterone production and keeps your estradiol up (which Aromasin will deplete).
I also haven’t found any threads with guys who used enough Aromasin, I have required about 2-4X the 25mg dose (1 every 8 hours is how it seems). I go based on symptoms, and this is only with 1cc (200mg) of test enanthate injected), is the cycle nears the middle of the week and end, I will probably need less. Testosterone propionate is the least aromatizing testosterone ester and should be used instead for guys who still have problems.
You have to learn that higher test means higher estrogen, that means you need more Aromasin, too much Aromasin at once I don’t think will cut it. You have to spread out the doses as your body releases more estrogen. I have a muscular physique I am trying to maintain, you guys could get by on much less of everything. In my experience the fading effects are just estrogen, when I take enough AI things stay good, but the fact remains, I am not producing the same amount of DHT as I did pre-PFS.
I am going to give it a couple months to see how far my own DHT comes, it is good enough, and I believe testosterone will help recovery by inducing 5AR and DHT. However, if my own DHT is not good enough, I would add on synthetic DHT, then I would not need more Aromasin as DHT works similarly to Aromasin by annihilating estrogen. I just decided before I commit to a lifetime of DHT replacement, to see how far my own can come, I already am far enough, everything is working 100%.
Pre-PFS testosterone felt like Masteron does, I don’t NEED to be horny 24/7, I am horny enough now, but if I went back on Masteron I think I would not use testosterone, just HCG to induce my own test. The reason being that Masteron does not aromatize into estrogen, HCG keeps levels up enough. I know this is intimidating and complicated to you guys, but once you understand it, it is not so.
I have read all the threads, people here think I don’t read them, and ALWAYS guys don’t know what they are doing and/or their doctor doesn’t either. You can’t just go on 1 set dose of everything and expect everything to keep working, things have to be modified until you learn what your body needs, could take a few months. Then you will know what you need and when you need it, one what days etc… You don’t need blood tests to figure this out, you can feel DHT and estrogen, they are distinct sensations with physical signs.
JustQuitDut,
as I told you, I already knew that my text would be in vain. 
but I know you will say you did not need help from anyone. After all, you already know everything, right?
…and you joined the forum just to help others with your knowledge.
All paths should be explored, you are free to try to recover naturally, but some here have tried for 10 years and not recovered, there should be other options. I personally am 34, I am not going to waste the rest of my 30s as a eunoch hoping for a recovery that may never come.
I already had low testosterone before PFS, and I am pretty sure finasteride caused it now that I know all I know.For future readers, my discussion has been moved to this thread with my final protocol and theory being discussed starting on page 3
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9865&start=40
Pfs full reversal
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Where are you from (country)?
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How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?) Google
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What is your current age, height, weight? 31, 5 foot 10, 140
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Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise? yes, tennis
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What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)? junk food, not healthy
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Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)? hair loss
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For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)? 3 years, in my original profile, I accidentally wrote that I had taken Finasteride for 7 years but it was for 3 approximately, from 2005-2008
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How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride? started when I was 21 years old in January of 2005
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How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit? I was 24 when I quit in March of 2008
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How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)? Cold Turkey
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What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic? Propecia
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What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)? 1 mg/ day but I had some days where I popped 6 at a time thinking that it would grow more of my hair back
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How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects? After I stopped- I always have been tired and fatigued, but this was a debilitating fatigue- it took a massive effort to read one page of a textbook. I started getting pain in my testicles and I got erectile dysfunction. I didnt realize at the time that it was due to propecia. I was depressed over another issue and thought it was due to depression or a thyroid problem. I have now realized the physical effects of the propecia were what caused me to feel crappy.
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What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation? Erectile Dysfunction, fatigue, short term memory loss, Loss of Libido
Put an X beside all that apply:
Sexual
[ x] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x ] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[x ] Loss of Morning Erections
[x ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[ x] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ ] Watery Ejaculate
[ ] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility
Mental
[ ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[ x] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[ ] Confusion
[ x] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[ ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[ x] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[ ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[x ] Severe Depression / Melancholy
[ ] Suicidal Thoughts
Physical
[x ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ x] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[ x] Testicular Pain
[ ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[ ] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[x ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes
Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[ x] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[x ] Lowered body temperature
[ ] Other (please explain)
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What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug? none
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If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?
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Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride? I am extremely depressed that I made the decision to take this drug
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Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.
I have been depressed, fatigued, and had loss of motivation and libido for 9 years now. The loss of libido is the aspect that bothers me the most. I have had success with cialis but that doesnt give me my libido back. I just want to feel that spark again. I have been despondent for a while, but after reading JustQuitDuts posts, I have hope again. I have never posted cause I am a quiet guy and dont have much to contribute but I appreciate all of your guys contributions and selflessness going through trial and error on yourself to help other guys like me. I have been reading the forums for a while, just never posted, I am new to this board and have been reading JustQuitDuit posts for a while but do not know how to private message him. I am hoping to get the info on how to PM him because I think Test Propionate and Liquid Aromasin could be the miracle I am looking for and I have questions for him about it. That is the only reason I am posting this, in the hopes that he will see this and answer the email that I sent him. Is an email the same as a private message? Thanks guys and hopefully we can beat this. It gives me a little strength to know that others are in the same boat as me. JustQuitDut thank you so much- you have given me hope. I thought that this hell would be my new reality and I am hopeful now that it wont.
Top
Hi there, thank you for the kind message, feel free to ask your questions here unless you prefer to speak privately? I feel that since we all are suffering the same thing, your questions may be those of someone else as well, but answering them publicly may help someone, save someone from suicide.
However, if they are private questions then we can talk privately, anyway, ask away!
Hey JustQuitDut! The questions I had were: 1. What website you recommend to buy the liquid aromasin?(and what is the product called on that website) 2. What website you recommend to buy the testosterone propionate? 3. I have never injected hormones before, so I wanted to know what site is the best to use so that my body gets the most absorbtion of the testosterone?(deltoid, thigh, etc) and 4. If you have to inject the testosterone every other day, how do you avoid injecting at the same exact injection sites eventually, or is that ok and not harmful to do. I wanted to private message you because previously I believe that you said to answer questions 1 and 2 it would have to be through a private message. Thank You so much for your help man! You have seriously got me through the past month. I was really hopeless and now I am hopeful. How do I private message you? I don’t see a button on here to do that. I am hoping to do this protocol before thanksgiving:) It will be my holiday gift.