Nice. You are doing us all a favor by getting to the bottom of what the best prescription DHT is to use
Not everyone 5 alpha, some here want me banned, they would prefer to sit around bashing Merck all day and talking about lawsuits and misery. They donāt want a treatment or a cure, itās much easier for them to sit home and believe they will never get better, that way they donāt have to do anything but attack people on the forum who actually try and make themselves better.
I have restarted my masteron experiments, and 5 alpha, I am very optimistic about seeing Dr Alan Jacobs, check your private messages, I am going to send you one right now about this.
What a surpriseā¦ Iām just waiting for you to retract your statement that a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor caused any of these problems to begin with.
I had my doses wrong, 50mg of Masteron restored my muscles to pre-PFS and shot my sex drive through the roof, rock hard erections, I guess itās all about the dose, and it seems to work with proviron together.
You find a story about someone who tried DHT with T levels at least in the 700 range?
notlikemyself
Post subject: Re: Iām cured.PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:38 pm
Offline
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:46 pm
Posts: 16
Age: 31
Drug: Propecia
Usage: 9 months
Started: 01 Oct 2011
Stopped: 01 Jul 2012
Location: California
Iāve been on this thread ever since it appeared from CDnuts more than a year ago. Iāve followed his program and have made noticeable improvements. However, I will say that I have had to modify his program a bit towards the end of my 3rd cycle. I was able to source some Androhard before it fully disappeared. The cost was significant. I paid almost $500 for one bottle. Add it all up and it was big dollars for me but I figured in the long run it would be worth it. I continued to do my research, all the while following his program.
Some of the benefits include:
Increase in sexual drive and ability to maintain erection
Orgasm strength improvements
Better quality of sleep
Physically more like a man (harder muscles)
Also, and best of all (the sex has been good enough that women are now wanting me to stay with them the night and have a relationship) - at the same time, I have become more concerned with finding someone to become crazy in love with, like I had in the past. So mentally, Iām coming back.
Iām still not a %100 - more like %50 to %60 maybe which is WAY better from where I was.
I had to modify his approach because even though Primordial Performance products are low on the side effects, they are still suppressive to some extent. (PP products are by far the best quality products ever produced) I found by the end of my third cycle somewhat suppressed and a little worse off than the end of my second cycle (which was great).
From my research, I determined cycling wasnāt the most effect way to assist in MY recovery. I now use a very small amount on a daily basis and have been doing so for several months now. For instance, when I would cycle - I would do 6 Gel Caps per day but now Iām down to only 1 a day split into two doses. You see, the body will only manufacture roughly .5mgs to 1mgs of DHT per day - the conversion ratio for 1 gel Cap is about .8 to 1.25 mg per day (or higher depending on the AndroHard Product ā V2 or V3). Any more than that seems to do the reverse affect for me. However, my body absolutely loved 6 Gel Caps a day to build muscle and shed fat.
Iāve tried Forerunner labs AlphaHard and AlphaMass. Some would ask, why would I have tried AlphaMass - the reason is that 1-Testosterone is a derivative of DHT and is 7 times more powerful than testosterone. That being said, an even smaller amount of this should be used if desired. AlphaHard and AlphaMass are strong products. The only issues I have with them are their delivery methods which arenāt nearly as good as Primordial Performance products. Plus, youāll have to double the dosage - so 1 Gel Cap of AndroHard is like 2 tabs of AlphaHard - you might even need 3 tabs since AlphaHard doesnāt have the ester. Iām thinking about possibly buying some AndroDrive or AndroLean (if thereās any still around) to piggy back off the delivery system while using a small dose of Forerunner Labs AlphaHard (when I run out of AndroHard).
AndroDrive has some DHEA supplementation which I heard was very beneficial and AndroLean has cortisol control. Iām also looking at AndroMass from Primordial performance. Iāve tried this one in the past but didnāt like it as I was doing 6 Gel Caps a day. I realize now, that was way too much. I think 1 Gel Cap per day should work nicely as it is half AndroHard and provides a test boost with the 4-DHEA (caution: too much will be suppressive). At 1 Gel per day, this is much more affordable and SAFE. Soon, I plan to move to every other day and see how that goes. I believe my body is becoming accustomed to having androgens in my system again and Iām elevating my own bodyās natural androgen homeostasis so that I can become my whole self again.
I hope this update helps.
I copied this from the latest post under cddnuts thread. Frustrated read this man.
This guy cycled cdnuts method 3 times. He than decided to try low dose DHT treatment via taking 1 androhard tablet per day for several months. He says heās 50-60 percent cured.
Are you sure we should come to the conclusion that DHT canāt help us? Iām really asking you for your honest opnion. As many brains on this the better.
Iām ordering 3 bottles of alpha hard before it gets banned. It contains the same shit andohard had in it minus the delivery system. So itās only a matter of time it gets banned to. Iām cycling it 3 times over the next 6 months.
Trying to decide if I can handle a 2 week fast before my first cycle
frustrated, whatās the point of your non-constructive messages? What exactly are you doing besides sitting home and criticizing everything I post? I am spending thousands of dollars on hormones and drugs and doctors, what the fuck are you doing? Is your goal to hope I fail? I am trying to find a cure or a treatment for this horrible condition utilizing every resource I have, while you sit at home criticizing me I am spending money, trying things, using myself as an experiment, now going to one of the only doctors who treats this in new york. What do you do besides mock me? Am I doing the wrong thing? Should I sit home and do nothing? Or should I keep my progress a secret? When I find a solution, vanish and never tell anyone? Thatās what will end up happening if you keep ostracizing me.
I mentioned this, I am somebody who had both high DHT levels with total T levels easily above 700. Free/bioavailable is really what you want to be looking at though, but that was also optically at a good level. No, I didnāt supplement DHT directly with pills, injections, or creams but my system was in an equivalent state.
I didnāt say that DHT canāt help us. Since Propecia shuts down production of DHT, I think its very likely that it is somehow involved.
My goal is not to see you fail but to try to ensure you donāt harm our credibility. I think you should think things through before you post to preserve your own credibility, but more importantly that of the PFS community. Go ahead and experiment all you want. It doesnāt hurt me and it may even help. Just actually collect real data before saying you injected drug X and it has restored you to pre-PFS levels. You need to go about this scientifically. Change/supplement/adjust one medication, give it a month and then report back. Donāt inject one dose and then go about making incredible statements. You have not even had symptoms long enough to even say you really have PFS - assuming you actually do. Solving this problem is just not that simple.
Good luck with Dr. Jacobs. A handful of people on this board have seen him. I have not heard of any successes.
You are right about that, Iām going to stop posting every time I recover, Iāll give it a month next time. I suppose Iām on a lot of hormones that I can go from one extreme to another. Unlike you guys going natural, I can go from really down to really up where my body literally doubles in size and my mood changes completely.
I donāt want to harm the community, I also donāt want to be hated here, we all have to stick together, itās very lonely having this condition. Frustrated, I have been emailing back and forth with dr Jacobs and he seems very nice and responsive. Itās possible others have not had the financial means to continue with him, he isnāt cheap. He is a neuroendocrinologist who has treated this condition, writes about it and believes it exists. After seeing doctors who thought I was crazy it is a fresh of breath air to at least speak to a doctor who not only treats this, but acknowledges Iām not insane.
Being that Iām on hormones, I have had 6 months to learn about this condition, that is 24 weeks, each week a new testosterone injection, each week I go through what you guys went through when you crashed and got better. So I have continued down this road finding ways to counter the crashes, and today I know a lot more than I did 6 months ago. I know for example that the crashes are mostly estrogen dominance, in the earlier stages of PFS I was taking high doses of arimidex and had none of the crash effects.
I was afraid of taking too much arimidex, my hrt doctor scared me, but in the few emails I had with dr jacobs, he seems to be a proponent of at least that so far. It made me think back to how much better I was doing when I was on those high doses. I then progressed to inducing my own dht via stimulation of my 5ar via various methods, in retrospect, thatās where I probably should have stayed. But i continued to workout and had a few spontaneous recoveries where I responded to test again, during those periods I gained more muscle.
Stimulating my own 5ar was unpredictable, how I would feel from one day to the next was unknown, I would feel better in the morning and worse at night. So I started injecting powerful androgenic hormones at night, this worked great and I was living life again. There would be ups and downs though, I was trying to stay away from arimidex, in retrospect that was a big mistake, the lows are low 5ar and dht, but high estrogen.
Then I got ahold of proviron, started out taking small doses, it got rid of my estrogen buildup, but then I injected a large dose of test and my body started crashing. I was able to compensate via high doses of proviron, but alas I have probably shut down my own production, I am at the highest peak of testosterone right now, so Iām producing a lot of estrogen since my body isnāt reducing test to dht. So I need the highest dose of proviron, the masteron injection seemed to go well with proviron, it seemed to work more on my muscles while proviron more on my mood.
I had enough though, I canāt go on like this forever, I need to be under the care of a physician, we all do, so Iām going to dr Alan Jacobs and letās hope I get some answers that can help all of us. Iām sorry I come off as abnoxious, but I go from recovered to not recovered so quickly, thatās why I come across as nuts. Estrogen fucking sucks, is that what women feel like? No wonder they are all so crazy, panic, anxiety, itās horrible, I am addicted to proviron now because it is the only thing that provides me with relief.
Frustrated, going into this pessimistic isnāt going to help find answers, I know this condition can be reversed because of all the spontaneous recoveries I had. I mean being able to respond normally to testosterone which I feel is the true test of recovery. I have PFS and Iām a muscular buff guy, not huge, but bigger than most guys you see. Iām able to ejaculate a few times a day and have good orgasms, itās only because Iām pumping my body full of so many androgenic drugs. I feel that itās like having an organ cut off, you want to keep the blood flowing till it can be reattached, allowing myself to go through androgenic deprivation canāt be helpful.
My next step I wanted to take was quitting everything and attempting an hpta restart, using multiple pctās including triptorelin and hcg. CDNuts essentially did what im doing, only he used a prohormone version of dht whereas Iām using straight dht. Now I have a doctor, so letās see what he says. Iām going to stop posting my recoveries unless I remain recovered for a month. I do believe this is reversible though, Iāll tell you why, if someone gets paralyzed they donāt just start walking again for a couple weeks then get paralyzed again.
You are probably doing really bad due to your high natural hormones, if you were to start taking proviron at a low dose every day, you would notice symtoms improving. It seems estrogen dominance is the problem here, so counteracting the estrogen is very helpful. I had hoped to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, dht regulates estrogen.
This can be treated, it just requires the correct hormonal protocol, I managed to get myself 90% and then 100% better with hormones, but I canāt keep up with the doses. I could if I were to stop taking so much testosterone, so dht fixes this, itās just the dose that matters. Also Iām going to ask dr Jacobs about the synthetic 5ar enzyme which is our best hope for an easy solution I believe. Throughout this whole process I have always improved my situation with dht, my own dht or synthetic, so the key is dht. I donāt believe the tests as mine showed up normal too. I know itās not, I know my 5ar system is shut down because of my oily skin, if I could inject myself with 5ar enzymes I would be 100% better I am sure. So Iām going to pursue every option possible till I find a solution to this, but in the meantime, I have developed protocols thatās can keep me in a normal state if I want.
I know this sucks, but the hell if Iām going to sit around waiting for someone to find a cure when I know the right combo of hormones can make me 100% better. Iām
Just afraid of how dangerous all this stuff is, itās one thing to be on hrt which is safe, but all this other shit long term, so I will report back after I talk to dr Jacobs and I will not be posting recoveries anymore unless it has been a month. Please understand, this condition hit me really hard, I donāt think many here were into modeling and body building. Iāll tell you one thing, those body builders know all about this shit, if everybody builder got PFS there would be a cure within 6 months lol.
I think that sounds like a much better approach. I apologize if I was brusque and insulting. I do not mean to discourage you from posting ideas - that is one of the functions of this place. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for guys to have a phase of improvement that is short lived.
I unfortunately do not share your same optimism which stems from a lack of success over years. I have tried the majority of what I think makes sense to try. For the most part I ran out of the emotional resilience needed to visit new doctors, be told they donāt have any answers, or to try treatments and have them not work.
There are ongoing studies in the pipeline that will hopefully stir up some attention and brainstorming. As I said earlier, your experimentation provides useful data to us all so long as you gather it correctly and donāt prematurely draw conclusions. It really takes months to evaluate a single treatment at a single dose.
Just to make it clear - I donāt mean to deter you from trying these things because we donāt know yet what will work. A healthy dose of realistic expectations will benefit everybody though.
This approach with Jacobs seems reasonable. If you can afford to. I was wondering how you would deal with this long term.
Well MCI, I come from a medical and scientific background, so the way I operate is study the problem, find solutions by any means, once I find solutions then study them and figure out how to implement them. Replacing DHT works, but it starts shutting down what little dht production we have and then you need more and more, I'm not as crazy as some here think. I have been spending thousands of dollars on hormones, I'm tired of treating myself and having only this forum to consult with. I need a doctor, he seems like the best hope there is right now, so at least going in, I know what works, what doesn't, and I understand whatever protocols he gives me. I can save time by letting him know if this or that works or telling him what has worked.
Till I have this condition under control I cannot have normal romantic relationships, not even for the sexual reasons, but for the emotional reasons. I can function sexually with my protocols, but I'll be on a date and crash and need to inject something or take something. I expected to shut down my own dht, CDnuts did with a dht prohormone and then cycled, I was planning to do that myself. So money is no object for me with respect to fixing this. That may be a factor that has limited others from pursuing this.
The week being on dht was amazing, at least I know of something that can make me feel better, but I thought what you are thinking. How can I do this long term? Is it even safe? So it was in a moment I guess when my estrogen was high and I broke down and made this decision. Hopefully I'll be able to help others here, at minimum relaying that dr Jacobs helped me. I doubt he has had any pfs sufferers willing to pay and try and try and pay like me, I mean he isn't cheap. So if he succeeds then maybe we can setup a fund for those who can't afford to see him.
Already he has given me insight in just a few emails into something I didn't think through, that anti estrogens could actually help me without hurting me. I already restarted my arimidex and upped the dose and am going to taper down from the proviron. I consider you all friends, we are in this together, I'll pay and I'll find a solution and I'll help you guys. Masteron seems to be working, I just needed a lower dose, that with an AI like arimidex seems to be refining my protocol. I can't be popping proviron pills all day, though I do think taking 1 a day would help some of you significantly. Anyway, I'm babbling, so let's see what dr Jacobs says, my appointment is this week, I'm really hopeful. I won't stop till he solves this. I already know the directions that work for inducing my own dht or replacing it, if I had not found anyway at all to improve myself, I would be less optimistic. I think I'm more optimistic than others here because of my knowledge in hormones, it is as extensive as a doctor, so I have been able to improve myself consistently, I just need something legal and practical and I want this fucking documented that I have pfs.This forum has helped me a lot, I think the only people who believe me are my parents, my friends and doctors think I lost my mind. My parents may not believe me either, they may think itās in my mind and are just being supportive who knows. However, when I recovered this week and my body doubled in size my dad was amazed, so he saw something with his own eyes. The masteron works, itās just the dose, Iāll be experimenting more with it this week, I injected 50mg of masteron today and my body has gotten huge again, this never happened post pfs. I just injexted 500mg instead of 50, it was 500mg a week not a day, I got it fucked up. I can share this with dr Jacobs and let him know it helped, masteron is a legal drug in the usa. Anyway, letās see what happensā¦
I know I said I wouldnāt post my progress for a while, but fuck, the proviron is worn off and the Masteron alone has reversed my symptoms again, only 50mg of testosterone propionate. It certainly would be a lot more practical than taking a bunch of pills, especially since I have Masteron Enanthate here which is a long acting one. I think it is all dose dependent, I am going to run all this by Dr Jacobs. This made me really horny, I mean horny as hell, I am going to quit the Proviron and just inject Masteron and see if this continues.
Hell Yea, day 2 masteron is still working reversing PFS at 50mg, not sure if I need to inject again today or wait till tomorrow, it did come on a bit strong, but reversed PFS in conjunction with test. I know I said I wouldnāt post progress for a month but I couldnāt resist, I will wait and report back.
I also had normal DHT levels (not high DHT levels) when I was in TRT and clomid. My total and free Testisterone levels where verified via blood work readings to be higher than normal. My estrogen was always in check by takjbg armidex also verified by blood work readings.
How ever I did not actually take DHTā¦
I get what you are saying, you are saying that seeing that you had normal natural DHT levels while being on trt and did not get better than why would taking DHT with TRT help??
I feel the same way but maybe our DHT levels just need to be higherā¦ It makes sense to an extent that maybe are DHT levels where just crazy high before taking the DHT inhibiter. Maybe what we all have in common is needing higher than average DHT levels to āfeel rightā. After all we all suffered from symptoms of high DHT before we started suffering symptoms of PFS/low DHT
In about 4 weeks Iām going to try alpha hard high dose as in recommended dose on bottle. Iām going to do as body builders put it a āfull one month cycleā followed by PCT. Seeing that I know my natural total and free testosterone levels are currently on point I fugure I can get away with taking no testosterone with the first month cycle of alpha hard. In other words along if the alpha hard increases DHT like it claims I will be in a situation were I have normal T while having higher than normal DHT levels. So this way even with out taking testosterone I will still be giving this method a fair shot .
For anyone who is familiar with all of cddnuts threads he stated on a couple of different occasions that when taking androhard (which according to the ingredients on alpha hard both products contain the same active ingredient) he always felt great for about a month until the DHT prohormones shut his testosterone production downā¦
Maybe this means along if his testosterone levels remained normal the DHT prohormone would have continued to help him
Emotional flatness, did you get that? And did this protocol fix that?
MCI, thatās my worst fucking problem that I suppose I neglect to mention and yet the fucking masteron is fixing it. Like proviron it seemed to take a few days for my body to āuseā it, but I also am starting to give off male body scent. Also my muscles are as big as pre pfs, dr Jacobs email just about using arimidex already helped me. I added it to my protocol, I think why masteron didnāt work for some is maybe because they didnāt get their estrogen under control. I didnāt start feeling normal again till I started with the arimidex. I am confident at this point that masteron maybe a long term solution for me. Im going to discuss this protocol with dr Jacobs and let you guys know what he says. For the record my current protocol is masteron 50mg every other day (much lower than I thought it should be) and arimidex 0.5 x2 a day (today I only took 0.5 once. Testosterone is working correctly, I injected last Friday, so Iāll wait to see if this protocol continues to work how I react to test injection this Friday. I have never had male scent except when I had 2 spontaneous recoveries, itās like the last thing that seems to come back. I have stopped proviron and am just on masteron now, I have masteron propionate and enanthate, enanthate is long term, so once I get my dose ironed out this week, Iāll switch to a once a week injection of the long acting masteron and see how it works. Iām not sure our dht has to be higher than normal, I do think itās a fucked up 5ar system, but anyway who cares if this works! Look on this forum, I bumped a thread from a guy who said he recovered on 300mg of masteron a week and never came back to the forum again. With synthetic dht in my experience your body has to get used to it and learn to use it. For the first time I feel I have a protocol that is easy and I can live and be normal with, this could turn out to be simply a once a week injection on top of my regular test. I will keep you guys up to date. If it lasts for more than a week itās a big deal a real big deal. It makes sense, injectables are so much stronger than pills, before pfs I switched from test gel to injection and it was another world. Itās nice having a male scent again, I no longer feel like Iām made of plastic! And my muscles!!! They are big again!!! Yea the emotional sides are gone I feel normal again not like a robot
And Iāll say another thing, even if this protocol works in still staying with dr Jacobs, I want this shit documented and I want to be under the care of a physician that can help me if shit goes south and to make sure all is ok. Masteron isnāt a big deal though, I googled and found guys on hrt that have implemented its use.
Thank you for all your experimentation JQD! I read that you felt that Provion had worn off, but that the Masteron had made you feel āhorny as hellā. Knowing what you know now, what would you start off withā¦Is Masteron with Arimidex a good start? Or should I also combine some high doses of DHEA, it seems like you dropped DHEA, from what I read. Thank you in advance for any knowledge you can share.