I also want to add that I am going to try to focus less on PFS, try to focus more on other things, my social life is active as it has always been, but I find myself logging onto this site from my iPhone when out with friends even. I don’t know, I am a well known problem solver, paid by big people to solve big problems of all kinds, I tend to not give up and obsess over problems till I resolve them. You could call this a hobby as it has become, both healthy and unhealthy. Instead of jerking off 5 times today I could have been banging a girl, yea my erection may not have been as strong, but a lot of this can be manifested in the mind, pouring over PFS symptoms and stories, it can fuck your mind up.
In studies done on finasteride actually, in a very high percentage of men, they actually lowered their DHT levels on a placebo, so the mind is powerful. I will try to not come here so much, I say that but I suppose it is the only outlet for this I have. I just want to add this as a warning for people, be careful how much you put your mind into this, you must always believe you are getting better and recovering.
PS. Do not order the “TocoCaps” in the PCT I listed, it may be a 5AR inhibitor, just that one item, frustrated let me know, thanks to him.
It’s just one ingredient in that particular blend, Beta-sitosterol is one of the chemicals present in Saw Palmetto. Find a Toco blend without it and you should be okay.
I’ve heard from a few sources mixed tocotrienols are good for your cardiovascular system and also ironically as I hadn’t heard of them before I ended up here… maintaining hair.
I’m pretty sure cdnuts and big softie used toco8 from the same guys who made androhard, I think the new company he started is based around that sort of stuff rather than prohormones. When I finish my bottle of tososorb I’ll be trying it out purely cause it sounds like it taste kinda nice.
Edit - I’ve been reading about beta-sitosterol as it seems to be pretty common in things other than Saw Palmetto. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-Sitosterol
What do you guys think? Says it’s used to treat BPH
Also listed as a naturally occuring 5ARI en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha-re … _inhibitor. There are more than I expected.
Interesting in that link it discusses all the hormones affected potentially, the glimmer of hope is if you read on it says that “enzymes adapt to some extent,” or something like that (sorry too lazy to go back and check). My point is, the enzymic system has an adaptation process, I had feared that no such process existed, but it does. Hopefully in time our enzymic systems will adapt and fix what is wrong, I am putting my hopes that HGH will speed that process up.
UPDATE: I have ordered a lot of stuff! OMG, but I just ordered Proviron, an oral form of DHT, I have been reading from the user Eden’s research and experience and he and his guys seem to have found a working protocol. I had to order this from Turkey and Moneygram the funds, but the price was very reasonable. Apparently you don’t need much, just small doses of this stuff, I am not yet ready to make the leap to straight DHT therapy from inducing my own, but I may eventually get tired of all my protocols and take that route, but not yet. One thing I will promise you all, by the end of this year I will have a working protocol that will have me at 100% this you can take to the bank, so stay tuned. I have made so much progress in the past 5 months since the crash, and I am very optimistic at the point I am getting to with DHT therapy (done right).
I seem to have my own 5AR working with a current protocol I am doing, but I want 90-100% consistently all the time, and I think I will probably end up getting there with DHT, but who knows, my own 5AR enzymes seem to be recovering (seem to be), we shall see.
how domyou know 5ar enzymes arent working? what makes you conclude this
Because I had over active sebaceous glands which are triggered by 5 alpha reductase enzymes, any mark of improvement (even the slightest) throughout this process has been met with my skin becoming oily to the extent of the recovery. For example, the better I am doing the more oily my skin is, that is a side effect of 5AR enzymes. When testosterone is not working I have run out of 5AR enzymes and my oily skin stops and so do the other 5AR enzymic side effects. In a guy who does not have such oily skin you would not be able to notice this as I do I think.
In everyone, the better they do the more 5AR enzyme side effects they have, hair loss, oily skin etc… When people do bad or crash the effects are gone, and it makes sense too. Why do hormones have a good result in a lot of PFS guys only to crash? They use up their compromised 5AR enzymes to reduce the test to DHT, each 5AR enzyme has a function like an organ, when they run out things start going wrong and then there is a crash.
We make more of the enzymes and then later can reduce more test to DHT, I have proven this to myself through my own experience. I have been inducing these enzymes with various protocols only to feel better and have PFS in remission, if I have a good dose of test in my body and I run out of these enzymes I feel crappy. So taking something that induces them, whether it be DHEA or anything androgenic will induce some enzymes (cause oily skin etc…) and I will feel better as test is reduced to DHT to an extent.
Well I heard that researchers think 5ar not working is not possible. I don’t think they have a way to test it anyway.
BTW: “feel crappy” doesn’t even come close to describing what many of us are going through.
researchers arent a reliable source anymore. the body is too complex for us to understand for now. dont get me wrong… i think research is very important, but i wouldnt believe 100% all what researchers claim.
im going natural anyways… the body needs to work it out alone imo. i feel like sunlight is essential. im getting a garden worker job now so i can work under natural sunlight all day.
reducing all kinds of stress is also essential for healing the body… negativity is stress.
Notna- you hit it on the head. Eat heathy, moderate exercise, low stress is essential. I have new improvements every few months. It is slow but the improvements are real. I have actually even correlated some very low points with very stressful periods over the last 2 years which is fascinating.
MCI, when I go through a PFS induced testosterone crash when my body runs out of 5ar enzymes and all I can feel is estrogen and adrenaline from the testosterone “crappy” is an understatement. I just tend to not want to fill this forum with my misery, I want to be positive and figure out ways to fix this. I currently am on s new protocol that so far has kept me consistent and kept PFS in remission for a few days. When the eatrogen dominance and lack of 5ar and dht hits I become suicidal and desperate and I am incapable of experiencing joy of any form. I have within me the medical and hormonal knowledge that surpasses most doctors (and doctors tell me this). So with my resources I am going to solve this and help others in the process. I already have made a couple big discoveries which are hgh protocols and testosterone propionate. These can bring someone back to 70% and even higher, I am currently researching the experiences of PFS sufferers like me who have gone into hormones, but the ones who have gone into dht therapy. I’m studying first my approach of stimulating the 5ar enzymes into action. I believe by doing this the system will realize there is something missing and attempt to compensate and adapt. Adaptation is what I am counting on, it is the reason medications stop working. The only reason I am more positive than others here is because I am regulating my hormones to put myself at about 80% remission on a daily basis. For those of you doing this naturally and without hormones, you are braver and stronger than I. One thing I will promise and you can mark these words, I will solve PFS, and I will find a working protocol, I am already close. Every time PFS crashes I learn something new about the beast, I will defeat it though, and help everyone else here in the process. With so many of us working on fixing this, I believe one of us will find s protocol before medical science does.
So researches have concluded that 5AR enzymes not working is not possible?
But yet it’s possible to make a drug that attacks 5AR enzymes and stops them from working…
That isn’t true, he must have got something wrong.
UPDATE!!: I had to post this before I went to sleep, my new protocol that has evolved to testosterone propionate 30mg intramuscular daily has brought me to 90% recovery! This is the first time I have been able to induce 5AR activity consistently and with testosterone. This form of testosterone would help guys even with high testosterone levels as it induces a lot of 5AR activity, I know of nothing else that does like this. Tonight my body looked amazing, I got hit on by so many girls and I felt like myself again, when PFS is in relapse my muscles shrink a lot as the effects of testosterone are minimized. I can go from being a really buff guy to an athletic looking thin guy. It is amazing and sucks, but true, so that is why I mention “my muscles pumped,” probably something not everyone is familiar with if not all muscle.
I feel amazing, I want this feeling to stay, and I will make it so, friends, I am on the verge I believe of a great discovery. Already we know Eden uses testosterone propionate, he is also using DHT replacement, but I believe inducing your own DHT is possible with this drug. If I were to design a form of testosterone for PFS it would be testosterone propionate, otherwise a lousy form of test due to it’s high side effect profile (high release of 5AR enzymes) and short half life. Nevertheless, this is what works, all symptoms fully reversed, I jerked off about 9 times today, no joke. That ability I have when things are normal, but mostly I did it to see how things are working.
If this remains consistently then I have made a huge discovery. The HGH protocol is still necessary, for all I know that is why I am able to respond to this form of test. The HGH protocol was allowing me to feel normal, but the testosterone propionate has brought me over the edge consistently every time. I just had not tried daily injections, I was afraid it was too much, but from what I read, it is the same thing. It seems to be the perfect protocol for PFS. A form of test that induces its own 5AR activity, I know of no other drug that does this, it could have very well been some pill, but the fact that it is a form of testosterone with a short half life is amazing.
Anyone here who is on testosterone, I urge you to try this, we already have one confirmed report of long term success with a PFS sufferer. Now for the waiting game, to see if this remains consistently, I think one of the worst things about PFS is losing this amazing feeling that I have now. Also due to the high amount of DHT being produced, it has started to regulate my estrogen so that my face became chiseled and tight again. Often I have had to take anti-estrogens or water pills to maintain that look and feel crappy in the process, this is amazing.
I am posting everything on this thread so that at the end of PFS someone can read all of my experiences, my mistakes and the things I did right. Oh if only I could have had this thread to read 5 months ago, so I know this will help others.
Justquit, is anyone else trying your recommendations?
yes I also have made 2 correlations:
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facial bone wasted is associated with high amounts of negative psychological stress (when I get stressed out, immediatly the bone ache starts, I attribute bone ache with bone wastage)
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sunglight - every time I spent time in sunlight a little bit later my libido rises a lot
No sufferer of PFS has tried my HGH precursors except one person I know who had positive results from it, anyone with PFS who tried direct HGH had positive results and thought they were cured for a while (From what I read). The problem with synthetic HGH is your body grows tolerance which might explain why it did not turn into a treatment or cure. The form of HGH I am using is my own, so I will not grow tolerant to it.
The main ingredient is testosterone propionate, I know of one other forum user (Eden), he used/uses it with success, but not the doses and the way I am using it. I tried his protocol which was less of a dose and into the fat rather than muscle, it did not provide the same results. He has approached this by replacing his own DHT in addition, my approach is inducing my own, so no, no one has tried this protocol yet exactly, but me.
I have gone from unpredictable to being able to control my situation, the question now is if this will continue long term. I believe it will as every time I have used this form of testosterone propionate, it has had the same results, amazing ones, I have posted that here and have a whole thread about it. I just didn’t understand till I read Eden’s posts that regular injections might induce enough DHT to control estrogen, and I just had to find the correct dose, and it is working.
If this continues I believe it will help my recovery by stimulating my 5AR activity, if not then I will go to DHT therapy which I know works as I already tried it and it is working for other PFS sufferers when done right. However, so far so good, I may have found the golden protocol! We shall see, we must give it about 2 weeks, if it lasts more than 2 to 3 weeks without a crash then we are onto something here. I don’t believe this will crash, not based on my previous experiences.
So what is your actual protocol?
List each drug/hormone or sup you are using. The frequency and the dose. Your rambling although incessant does not list an actual clear treatment regime just claims of remission and a greater understanding of pfs than anyone else.
Clarify your regime.
I will post my current protocol later, as I’m on my phone and it’s too much to type. However, I am still re modulating my protocol. I’m very close to a working treatment, I just don’t want to post it till I am in remission for at least a month. Currently though my HGH protocol is on page 11 of this thread. My testosterone protocol is currently testosterone propionate, but I’m still experimenting and may be delving into dht replacement. I am on the verge of some promising treatments and discoveries, so that I can post a protocol that is a final product.
Check my testosterone propionate thread to see that protocol, but I’m currently running an experiment and waiting till it’s finished to post my results.