JoeKool’s story: Long term HCG

I’ve had an unrelated setback, due to a back injury requiring steroid injections. The steroids seem to have built up my appetite and I’m up about 10lbs.

I’ll also add that after several months on hCG, my testosterone is up from under 400 to about 550, but my estradiol is up too, with those typical symptoms. My endocrinologist suggested and prescribed 1mg anastrozole once a week while continuing the HCG at 250iu m/w/f. Instead, I’m only cutting back to 125iu hCG (Joe’s advice, which makes perfect sense to me).

I’ve enjoyed really decent improvements with hCG and hope I get past this high estradiol period. Even with that, I’ve had the best sleep of the last 15 years, and wake up refreshed. Not 100%, but I am feeling less lethargic. I had felt even better last month, and am hoping with the reduced hCG dosage, I get back on track.

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Great to hear. Sorry to be a drag, but could you please care to elucidate the areas of improvement, perhaps on a scale of 10?

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Glad you skipped the anastrozole.

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Wouldn’t be surprising if your feeling better is more than placebo effect since your T was in the 300s so you were hypogonadal. TRT might be safer treatment for hypogonadism long term, however. If you have PFS then you will still have all our side effects anyway, no matter what your T levels, however. Good that you are finding out whether you have hypogonadism alone or hypogonadism + PFS. Let’s hope it’s the former.

I definitely have PFS and wonder since I’ve had it for so long, about 15 years, what else it may have affected. For sure, it absolutely shrunk my testicles, and since the hCG, they’ve come back to “normal” size, as per a doctor’s evaluation and a cat scan/mri that was taken for my back. This “normal” size is 2x what they were before hCG.

After hCG, I have much more hair all over my body, but after a haircut yesterday, it’s actually much thinner on my head. If the hCG gains keep, and the estrogen goes down, hair is a small price to pay. If only I knew that years ago, before that first finasteride poison pill.

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Listing areas of improvement below, in no particular order, so please excuse the free flowing nature of the list.

Body hair: returned to hands, chest, and lower legs. Eyebrows are thicker and longer

Ear wax: there is significantly more

Sleep: I can sleep again, with much less interruption, and if I don’t pick up my phone, I can return to sleep. I am waking up earlier, and more refreshed

Muscle Wastage: it reversed a bit, then stopped. I no longer see my chest bones, even before the recent weight gain.

Appetite: I can eat anything, and developed a sweet tooth, like I have pre pfs, but can’t work it off like I could before.

Testicular size: back to normal most days, and descending normally most days. Occasionally, much larger than “normal”

Ejaculate: it had turned to water during pfs. It’s now a little thicker, with a little bit of white color. After 15 years, I don’t remember what normal was, but it’s not there yet. This is an undeniable change in its texture. After intercourse, it would embarrassingly “leak out”, but this thicker ejaculate seems to be staying put more often.

Orgasm: under pfs, it was absolutely gone. It was a zero, sometimes with slight sensitivity after ejaculating. Orgasm got to 5-10% of normal since starting hCG, but after what seem like high estrogen symptoms, it’s back to zero, but with consistent sensitivity after orgasm.

Emotional effects: after getting out of my depression, I’ve regressed a bit. Definitely not like before, but not “happy” either. The joy of being depression free was a couple of weeks of bliss, and gives me hope to get out of it again.

Memory: it was tied to the emotional effects. It was good to remember things and form sentences more easily. That too regressed a bit, but better than baseline.

Morning erections: they were gone almost all days under pfs and pre hCG, except for days with that daily viagra type pill (I’d only take it if there was a chance of intercourse). Under hCG, morning erections returned, being much firmer in the beginning days, until they stopped a couple of months later. After a one week pause and a reduction to 125iu, they have returned again. I actually had an erection that sustained even as I got out of bed.

Penis size: it became tiny after pfs. Embarrassingly tiny, to the point of almost not seeing a shaft at all. It’s about 3x larger now when flaccid. It was never really large before, or even normal, but clearly an improvement from what it was. When erect, it’s still not at its prior peak, which did happen on several occasions over the past decade. I never really found out why or how.

Random erections: lots before pfs, zero after. With hCG, I’ve had two or three, always either sitting or in bed, and they are short lived.

Breast tissue/size. I’ve gained weight, so there is more there, and it’s come on slowing, so it’s difficult to gauge, but they seem larger. I distinctly remember during a high school entry medical exam, the doctor noted “feminization of the breasts” and that I would outgrow it. I always wondered how many of us may have had something like this, and if it could be an indicator of pfs risk.

Desire: it seems to have improved from zero to a tiny bit in the first couple of months of hCG. I was really hopefully to “make up for lost time”, but it’s back to almost zero again.

Dreams: no dreams of any kind during pfs, except for a short time when I tried Wellbutrin for 90 days (it helped, but I stopped it before hCG, to not mix up results). For some reason, I found not having dreams frustrating and depressing. They occasionally returned under hCG, and I’ve actually had a couple of sexual dreams of women I’ve been with.

I’ll add that many years ago, before PFS, I got worried about prostate cancer (relatives had it). One of the things I read was that men who ejaculate daily/regularly had less likelihood of getting it. Having not been a person who ejaculated regularly, I made it a habit to do so, to keep the potential for prostate cancer at bay.

Since PFS, I’ve continued this, at the rate of about once every other day, really more to keep everything from atrophying than to prevent prostate cancer. For what it’s worth, the mri/cat scan showed a normal to large size prostate.

I’ve got about a month and a half to go for being on hCG six months. So far, even with the setbacks, these are the best and longest lasting improvements I’ve had since pfs started. It’s nowhere near normal, but so much better than before.

My new endocrinologist says I can stay on hCG 12 months at this low dose. I suspect if the estrogen goes down to normal, I can stop the hCG and see what happens. I am hoping and praying for relief from this curse, and that this helps us, even if only partially.

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seriously man what is wrong with you, your contributions to this forum are absolutely toxic

man decides to post positive feedback on a potential treatment option, your go-to response is to tell him that he is simply hypogonadal and he doesn’t have the condition. How arrogant and condescending

And for the last time, your thesis on androgen supplementation not helping pfs victims is simply incorrect, there are literally 100s of examples on this forum of where it has helped people. Just because it didn’t worked for you (possibly because you never took finasteride in the first place) you have incorrectly assumed it doesnt work for anyone

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What are you talking about? He had low T – in the 300s. He probably just has hypogonadism. That would be great. Then he can just do TRT.

You’re an absolute idiot if you think he’s had pfs sides for 15 years due to hypogonadism when his T is 300+

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How do you know he hasn’t had low T for 15 years?

Do you honestly believe someone can suffer from severe pfs sides with test in the 300’s? Having almost zero testosterone doesn’t even come close to the sides that pfs brings about.

your arrogance is astounding

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Who’s a mod in here anyways? Is there anything more disgusting than someone who didn’t take propecia saying someone doesn’t have pfs? Should be an instant ban for this “scientist.” Mods please do something to clean his nonsense up. Thanks for everyone. Ideally we’d all learn to ignore him but people here are too kind.

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Where did I say someone didn’t have PFS?

Stop being so desperate for attention here and start your own thread.

Guys, calm down. The reality is that PFS symptoms and low T symptoms are largely the same. That’s why everyone who suspects they have PFS should get their T tested. If their T is low then they might not have PFS. That is a good thing for people to know. Sorry if I’ve rained on your parade of hoping that hCG, which people have been trying for 15 years here, is a newly discovered cure for PFS. Maybe it is. All I’m saying is that if he feels better from taking hCG then he might also consider the possibility that he simply has hypogonadism, which is an eminently treatable, vastly more common and better condition to have than PFS. Not clear at all on what there is to be upset about here.

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He just can’t f7ck8ng help himself. Don’t respond to him guys.

The wisest words you’ve uttered on this forum, specifically ‘might consider the possibility’. Until now you have been declaring that anybody who experiences any benefit from treatment doesn’t have PFS, definitively.

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What? Where have I ever said that?

My position on TTHCWP has been clear and unwavering for years — none of those things have produced anything more than isolated reports of transitory benefits for people who may not have even had PFS in the first place, and anyone who thinks they have PFS should get tested for hypogonadism and do what they can to eliminate the possibility of depression without drugs.

Not my problem if it’s offensive to someone that they should get blood tests to screen for eminently treatable conditions before assuming their life is ruined with only way of getting it back being to participate in broscience Internet forum experiments that haven’t worked for 15 years — that ought to be common sense (yes somehow is offensive apparently).

Be mad at the lack of progress here, not at the messenger.

Search through your previous posts - you’ve done in many times. I’ve quoted you many times saying just that.

Like before, a false statement, albeit less extreme than your previous remarks. Effects in many have not been ‘just transitory’ but lasting.

I’m not offended, as I’m sure others aren’t offended, that’s not the issue, it’s not about offence. It’s about making statements which are blatantly untrue and misleading.