Joao's (partial) blood tests

These are the results I have received to date. 14 days after quitting cold turkey. I would be really grateful if someone could give me an idea of what they mean.

LH - 6.65 mUI/ml (3.1 -34.6)
FSH 7.03 mUI/mL (1.4-18.1)
FSH/LH relation - 0.95 (<2)
Free T3 - 2.9 pg/mL (2 -4)
Estradiol 22 pg/mL (11 -41)
Progesterone - 318 pg/mL (280 - 1120) LOW
T4 9.4 mcg/dL (4.5 - 10.9)
TSH - 2.603 mcUI/mL (0.350 - 5.900)
Prolactin - 7.5 ng/mL (2.1 - 17.7)
T3 - 157 ng/uL (75 - 216)
Androstenedione - 1.19 ng/mL (0,6 - 3.10)
Total testosterone 939 ng/dL (241 - 827) TOO HIGH?
SHBG 71.6 nmol/lh (55 -100)
Free testosterone: 1.4% (no reference)
Calculated free testosterone: 13:15 ng/dL (2.67 - 18.3)
Bio testosterone: 308.17 ng/uL (58 - 436)
DHEA-S 747 ng/mL ( 800 - 5600) VERY LOW
(DHT) awaited
(Alosterone) awaited
(RAR) awaited
ACTH 23.2 PG/Ml (10 - 46)
Total PSA 0.54/mL (< 4)
3 AIF. DIOL.G (awaited)
Estrona (Estrogen?) in the blood - awaited

Does high test mean the DHT is coming back gradually? Is there a dange that this is the time I feel ok (morning wood, normal libido + erection) but that when DHT comes back it will cause problems again? should I try and slow it down with saw palmetto? Any other tests I should do?
Thanks a lot

ACTH - 23.2 pg/mL

Hi, before anyone can give you an answer, you need to edit your post and add the ranges beside each test, so we know where you fall – either within, or out of, the range.

Just click “Edit” and you can revise your post.

Tks. Results now amended accordingly.
My main concerns are: DHEA-S which seems alarmingly below normal levels
Total testosterone is very high (above normal limits)
Progesterone seems low (but within range)

Should be getting the DHT result tomorrow.

Here are the updated results. I´d be really grateful for any guidance anyone could give.
Tks
Blood Tests.doc (84 KB)

HEMOGLOBIN 13.7 g/dL 13.5-17.5
HEMATOCRIT 41.5% 41-53%

Since these are borderline low, you might want to investigate potential Anemia.

However, these levels should likely rise a bit now that you have discontinued Finasteride, and any potential anemia resolve on its own as a result.

I’m not saying that’s what you DO have, just offering an opinion as to WHY these results might be as they are – since anemia has been associated with Androgen deprivation therapy:

prostate-cancer.org/educatio … nemia.html

blackwell-synergy.com/doi/ab … 99.00844.x

pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl … d=16985883

"Hematologic Adverse Effects
Normocytic normochromic anemia is commonly encountered in men receiving hormonal deprivation therapy. The cause is thought to be deficiency of erythropoietin and the lack of stimulation of erythroid stem cells by testosterone and dihydrotestosterone.

A study by Strum and colleagues40 showed that hemoglobin levels can fall within 1 month after starting therapy and that nadir hemoglobin levels were reached by 6 months. In this study, anemia was symptomatic in 13% of patients and was worse in combined androgen blockade compared with the use of LHRH analogues alone.

This side effect is reversible upon cessation of hormonal blockade. Recombinant human erythropoietin has been used to correct this form of anemia."


LEUKOCYTE COUNT 4500/mm3 4500-1000mm3

I’d keep an eye on this… mayoclinic.com/health/low-wh … nt/AN00726

Most likely it will improve with time, since these tests were only taken 10 days off the drug. I do recall when I was taking Finasteride I got a cut, which got infected, which required 3x the normal amount of antibiotics & time they normally would have given, to fight it… looking back, a low WBC count could have been why.

Your result could have been due to a virus, or perhaps is nothing to worry about. Have you been getting sick a lot lately?


GLUCOSE 95 mg/dL 70 - 99

With time, this should decrease which is a good thing, since diabetes is not something you want. Note that you are still within the normal range, so no need to worry!! I also had a high Glucose Fasting level after coming off the drug, which has gone down over the past 2 years since quitting.

Interestingly, Finasteride use has been linked to a small increase in incidence of diabetes:

merckfrosst.ca/assets/en/pdf … 2_06-E.pdf

PAGE 7:
Although the clinical significance is unclear, a higher incidence of cataracts (4.2%, finasteride vs. 2.5%, placebo) and diabetes (2.8%, finasteride vs. 1.7%, placebo) was observed in patients receiving finasteride. None of these cases were considered drug related by the investigator.

They say that none of the cases were considered drug related by the investigator, which is somewhat comforting… but again, this document came from Merck.


LH 6.65 1.5 – 9.3
FSH 7.03 mUI/mL 1.4 – 18.1

These are looking good! You should be pretty fertile (FSH), and your testes are obviously pumping out a lot of Testosterone, thanks to a high LH.

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 939 241 - 827

As shown by a high LH, looks like you are still putting out a lot of T. Since Finasteride can upregulate Testosterone production by up to 20% in some men, this is not surprising. I would expect your LH and Testosterone level to come down a bit over the next few months, the longer you’re off the drug.

ESTRADIOL 22 pg/mL 11-41

Likely nothing to worry about, since you don’t report Gynocemastia or emotional/mental side effects such as depression/crying/anxiety.

DHEA –SULFATE 747 ng/mL 800 -5600

Mentioned this in another thread – adrenal glands aren’t putting out much DHEA-S to produce steroids such as Testosterone/Estrogen. My guess? They don’t need to since your testes are working hard to do the job.

DHT 488.00 pg/mL 250 - 990

I would expect this to rise some since quitting the drug.

The rest of your tests, I don’t know enough, or they do not appear to be concerning enough to comment on… but you can do some investigating by Googling the results yourself. Just don’t go freaking yourself out that you have every diseases under the sun! It’s very easy to self-diagnose and scare yourself… which is why you should consult with doctors to get a proper interpretation of the results.


^^^ What does your doctor say about all this?

Since you just quit, and these tests were taken 14 days after quitting, my advice would be to wait another month or two to see how your body reacts.

Hopefully you should go back to the way you felt before taking it, since it can take up to 30 days just for the 5AR-II enzyme to regenerate, which would then lead to increased T–>DHT conversion from that point.

If things don’t improve for you over next 2-3 months, suggest getting retested to see what’s changed since this test. From there you can evaluate next steps. Right now your T level is fantastic, let’s hope it stays decently elevated and doesn’t crash like some of the others here (including me). If it does, you’ll know…

Finally, all of the above is just my layman’s interpretation of the results and I am by no means a qualified medical professional. Try to relax, not worry and just enjoy your life right now… if things get better, great. If not, get more tests and seek further medical advice via Endocrinologists.

Thanks.man. Really appreciate it.

Hi Jao,

I apologise for not getting back to you on your pm but have been away for the site for some time.

I would just echo what Mew has said.

Many tks Hypo.

.

Hi guys
10 months on. I thought I had recovered but…
Over the past 3 months I have noticed the following:-

  1. significantly reduced loss of libido
  2. no daytime erections
  3. sporadic morning wood
  4. testes seem to be 'empty

Mew - I forgot to post the Estrone results which were (in 2007) 109 pg/mL - normal range 25 - 150 - so rather high I guess
I also overlooked the fact that I have been using topical medication - Avicis (alpha estradiol), for 3 years. My doctor (totally suportive in respect of fin), recomended it on the basis of complete lack of side effects, but, given it’s hormonalI’m now gradually reducing with a view to stopping.

I´m basically planning to repeat all the tests. Is there anything I should add?
Other than the sexual side effects (plus some wight gain of 7kg), everything seems to be ok - no fatigue etc. prostrate is ok.

Thanks man
Blood_Tests[1].doc (60.5 KB)

Hi Jao,

Sorry to hear you are having issues still.

I would investigate the following (5AR activity testing):
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=761

I also added more hormones to the Hormones test list:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92

In addition, you might want to consider print out the following diagrams and showing them to your doc, maybe he might be able to test for the various pathways:

First diagram:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =2166#2166

Adiol-G formation:
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =7014#7014
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =7206#7206

Tks Mew. Appreciated.
J

Here are my partial results, 2 years after quitting. I ONLY RECENTLY BEGAN EXPERIENCING MENTAL SYMPTOMS - BRAIN FOG, TERRIBLE INSOMNIA.

Sodium 141 mEq/L (132-146)
Potassium 4.7 mEq/L (3.5 -5.5)
Magnesium 2.4 mg/dL (1.3 to 2.7)
Gama Glutamil 18 u/L (<73u/L)
Alpha Globulin 3.5 (3.8 -7.4)
FSH - 8.46 (1.4 - 1.81)
LH 6.69 mUI/mL (1.5 - 9.3)
LH/FSH relation 0.79 (<2)
Free T3 3.1 pg/mL (2-4)
Free T4 1.03 ().75 -1.85 ng/dL)
TSH - ultrasensitive 1.867mcU/mL (0.350 -5.900 )
Prolactin 4.2 ng/nL (2.10 -17.70 ng/nL)
ESTRADIOL 46 pg/nL (11 -41)
Progesterone 311 pg/mL (280 -1220)
Total Test - 690 ng/dL (241 -827)
SHBG 48.3 (13 - 71 nmo1/L)
Free Test 1.74 (no range)
Calculated Free test 12.01 ng/uL (2.67 -18.3)
Bioavailable test 281.45 ngl/uL(58 - 436)
Androstendedione 0.91 ng/mL (0.60 - 3.10 ng/mL)
DHEA S 946,3 ng/mL (443 -3310)
3 ALPHA DIOL G - 0.64 ng/nL (3.40 - 22.00) (down from 7 in 2007 when I quit)
Aldosterone 6.6 ng /uL (4.0 ng/cL)
DHT 29.7 ng/uL (3.50 - 70.0 ng/uL)[/b]

Off the charts high, are you sure the range you provided is correct? Points to pituitary trying to send large signals to maintain fertility… have you had a fertility test done?

Out of range high, do you have symptoms of estrogen excess – gyno, weight gain, feminizing of body etc? This should probably be brought under control.

Both of these are on the low side, and point to the adrenals.

Disconcerting… could potentially reflect 5AR2 activity.

Out of range high, again points to the adrenals.

Would expect this to be a bit higher but considering Adiol-G result, probably not too surprising.


What did your docs say about results? Any potential treatment options?

Mew,
Thanks for the reply.
There was a typo (mine) in the FSH range I posted
My result is 8.46 mU1 - the correct range is (1.4 - 18.1)

I have other results pending - cortisol in the saliva and blood, cholesterol, glucose, estrone etc.

I haven’t seen an endo yet, so not sure what, if any, treatment options will be available. I had booked an appointment with a neurologist, but wanted to get all my results back before going to avoid the “all in your mind” response. I have very limited funds, though good health insurance for as long as I can hold on to my job.

I have been putting on weight - about 8 kg all around the waist/thighs. the body hair on my legs seems to be thinning. Other than that no other feminizing aspects that I’ve noticed.

The lack of sleep and memory loss is driving me nuts. I recently lost some important documents and have NO IDEA when or where I last saw them, plus, on the same day left a pot on the stove for almost 8 hours having forgotten i’d put it on. I frequently struggle to remember names, and passwords/codes etc. I usually manage about 2 hours sleep a night - I fall asleep quite easily but then wake up - usually sweating and with a tight chest.

What is rather freaking me out is that the mental sides kicked in almost 2 years after I quit. 3 Adiol G has declined from 7.0 in 2007 (2 weeks after quitting) to 0.64 ng/nL - which seems a tad dramatic! The sexual sides never really went away but I kinda got used to them. I can live without sex, but not without sleep/memory.

Oh…and my skin and hair…which both used to be oily, have dried out to the extent that I need to use oil (skin) and a special scalp treatment. hair. I still have the shampoo I was using up until 6 months ago for “Extremely oily hair”…weird. My hands wrinke up within 2 minutes of being in the shower

You might want to try some natural supplements to see if they have any effect with the sleep… I know my sleep did not get back into a regular cycle until nearly 2.5-3 years after quitting, when REM dreams slowly starting coming back online and I was no longer waking up every 3 hours throughout the night.

I have found 500mg of L-arginine (nitric oxide precursor) on an empty stomach before bed every once in awhile, leads to much more intense dreams. Upon waking the next morning I feel more refreshed than usual, like I had a deep slumber. Sometimes however, I wakeup feeling very groggy from this beyond what I normally would had I not taken anything the night before.

Possible reasons for L-Arginine causing this deeper sleep is that Nitric Oxide is implicated in many processes in the body, including erections, GH release, sleep and even memory. For sleep, low Nitric Oxide = being awake, elevated levels = sleep state.

medicalnewstoday.com/articles/51436.php
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2186

You may also want to consider GABA supplements (thought they do not cross the blood brain barrier)… or possibly Kava Kava to reduce anxiety/insomnia, although there are concerns about safety and adverse reactions:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kava
altmedicine.about.com/od/kava/p/kava.htm

Memory: consider getting adequate amounts of Omega3s (fish oil), ie 1gram a day, to help with neurotransmission, antidepressive actions, dopamine production, and neuronal growth and repair… all of which may assist with memory. There are a variety of other supplements out there like Ginkgo Biloba which claim to assist in this department, but may have impacts on blood thinning and other factors:

umm.edu/altmed/articles/gink … 000247.htm

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Thanks Mew!

Yes, same here… skin and scalp have become extremely dry post-Fin.

Likely a sign that 5AR1 or 2, or Adiol-G levels in local tissues are much lower due to drug’s action.