It would be nice if people who recovered came back and told us so to give everyone hope or share what they did, but honestly I can’t blame them. This is such a horrific experience that if you make it out the other side it’s understandable to want to put every bit of it behind you. As Big Softie mentioned in his recovery thread, even when you’re recovered there’s still some psychological damage from such a horrifying experience. Coming back here probably digs that up for some people. I know it would for me.
I was being sarcastic and facetious in that order. I doubt he recovered; I don’t have a problem with the guy, but he struck me as someone who could be quite vocal if he felt impelled. If the words are conspiciously absent, it is because there aren’t any. Of course, he will probably read this and respond, to prove me wrong; and, my plan will have worked.
Hey chaps,
I’ve been away from this forum for about 18 months. As I write, I am 33 years of age, I feel great, I look like I’m 25, I feel humble for my suffering over these years. I remain very positive and optimistic, and have an excellent quality of life.
I am doing very well. I am just updating as a guy from the forum sent me a text message and I thought I should update.
For me, I have always set my heart on making a full recovery. Anything less is not good enough. I wanted to excavate and explore the reasons why finasteride nearly killed me and ruin me, and restore my mental, physical and sexual health totally.
To be succinct, I believe achieving the above is very difficult. The human body is complicated and achieving a cure means getting minerals/hormones/vitamins in some sort of balance. The problem is multifactorial. There is no magic bullet, and I’m not even going to update myself or enquire as to what the scientists discovered; essentially they’ll find little, and will not cure anything.
To cut to the chase, I want to highlight a few variables that need to be worked on to achieve recovery
- DHEA levels should be optimal. DHEA is the most abundant hormone in the body, is androgenic. It should be replaced to optimal levels. BUT it converts to oestrogen.
I take 25mg DHEA twice a day, 7am and 6pm. I am settling on a dose of arimidex as DHEA markedly changes to E1, E2 and E3. Arimidex is a good enough aromatase inhibitor. ( I tried letrozole and exemestane, but they are too strong).
- The zinc: copper ratio is VITAL.
I take 70mg zinc at night. Zinc should be taken at night. Zinc is totally vital. Make it in the top half of normal range.
I take 12mg copper in the morning. (a very high dose of copper, but I’ve always been low in copper. Copper is so important to me. Even when I take just 8mg, I feel anxious, erectile functioning and appetite worsens).
I have pyroluria (a biochemical quirk where one loses zinc), and I believe this predisposed me to suffering finsateride effects. Furthermore, I happen to know that low copper halves the amount of available DHEA. Copper needed for erectile functioning and mood. But not too much.
Of note, I found I couldn’t tolerate high doses of zinc until I started taking DHEA. (Zinc acts as potent anti oestrogen, and lowered oestrogen too much). I needed some oestrogen from DHEA, I think.
[Size=4]IF YOU SORT OUT DHEA (and control Oestrogen), and ZINC:COPPER RATIO, YOU WILL MAKE MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS.
TRUST ME, I’VE BEEN PLAYING THIS GAME FOR YEARS.
[/size]
My erections are easily 100%, somtimes spontaneous. I get weak nocturnal erections, morning erections disappear too quickly, ejaculate getting better by the week, libido pretty good. Energy excellent, mood very good, athleticism is great, playing superleague tennis. I will make further improvements in coming weeks.
I’m still settling on above doses and will make slight changes in coming weeks (e.g.) I think I may need more like 50mg zinc at night, as 70mg too high. I definitely need 12mg copper in the morning. Total of 50mg DHEA per day takes me to 10.6 on range (4 to 12).
Aside, I also do the following as part of routine (but don’t feel too pressured)
-
2 magnesium baths per week ( I notice a significant difference with these). Our cells work best when brimming with magnesium. Please do this. Epsom salts are similar I think.
-
deer antler powder for testosterone, IGFs
-
pine pollen powder for testosterone
-
10grams fish oil per day
-
I put 2 drops of nascent iodine on my skin every day (or in the magnesium bath).
-
A compounded formula (partly cos I have pyroluria and I ‘overmethylate’-ie, have low histamine). Compounded formula (as prescribed by Dr Greg Emerson) contains :
niacinamide
biotin
Vit B6
Vit E
P5P
- 4 amazing immune modulators (I haven’t got ill, ie, had a sore throat or anything for the 2 years I’ve taken these)
– reishi mushroom
– chaga mushroom
–cordyceps mushroom
– bovine colostrum (also has growth factors in)
Also royal jelly, propolis (dunno if these help).
I juice organic vegetables and fruit, eat healthily. Alright, sometimes I get totally fucked up on booze, you’ll be pleased to hear!
Try and get sunlight too for VIt D. I also sleep on an ‘earthing sheet’ which grounds me and regulates cortisol levels.
Anyway, that’s enough. I’m not actually a psycho control freak. If you’re overwhelmed, just sort out DHEA, oestrogen, zinc:copper ratio.
Good luck, best wishes, your friend
JN
PS, I’m just editing this. Yeah, bear in mind that I had very necessary tests prior to making the recovery
- Stool DNA parasitology test- and subsequent treatment of parasite and a worm (causes low body temp)
- Blood microscopy (can detect yeast infections and gastrointestinal pathology, and causes for a low body temp).
Everyone needs to get these tests done as a matter of priority
Glad to hear that you recovered. I will try your protocol: DHEA, zinc, cooper. But now I am taking T3.
Of course you’re not interested in inquiring about what the scientists have discovered. That makes perfect sense. That might indicate maybe you were wrong and would involve eating a bit of crow. You’re a doctor? Has anyone here every heard a doctor makes such a remark about medical research? Does this make sense to anyone? Some common biomarkers have already been identified and it also seems to be the collective opinion of dozens of scientists across multiple top tier research institutions that they are on the right track otherwise they wouldn’t embark on these investigations. Sadly many of the guys here are naive enough to latch onto your statement about the research instead of dismissing it for exactly what it is- so much trolling.
Have you considered 7-keto-DHEA? It is supposed to not be able to convert to estrogen, although I have not heard much anecdotal reports on whether this is the case IRL. I do know that DHEA cream from me majorly spikes my e2 and I need ungodly amounts of AI to stop this.
How have you been testing your zinc and copper? Hair analysis?
On the mark, as always boston.
JN, I know you’re a long time sufferer, but that was a stupid thing to say.
Seriously JN. I am very happy you feel better, but to disrespect the research in the way you just did is total fucking horse shit. Anyone who strays from the pfs foundation based on JN’s statements has officially lost their fucking minds.
Glad you’re feeling great, JN. You deserve it after suffering for so long. 
Also, some of you guys are getting borderline fanatical about this PFS foundation business.
Moonman- excellent suggestion. I have considered and will probably try it in the future. Only prob is that it is not titratable on a blood test, but it should be clinically efficacious.
Boston,
Sure. I’m not here to argue, debate or discuss my approach to medical matters or science, or even my approach as a doctor.
What I can say is that I believe you won’t discover anything of any use.
I can also say my hormones, minerals and vitamins are probably at more optimal levels, and in better balance, than yours. I can only say what has worked for me over the last 12 years of heavy suffering.
I’ll return in a year or so. Am I allowed to mock you guys when you still haven’t found the magic bullet?!! Your concept is absurd, quite frankly. But I suppose, discovering nothing, and realising that our problem is holistic, complicated, multifactorial, about balance, and essentially cured by ‘naturopathy’ will be a successful realisation. In addition, I’ll expect my year is significantly better than yours!
Take care
JN
Ohhhhhh Myyyyyy Goddddd … are you fucking kidding with this quote?
I decided the other day I was done with this forum because there is far too much stupidity, but I have been checking back for any updates from Awor.
Honestly, the stupidity is beyond belief. The foundation is working to determine the root fucking cause so we do not have to listen to these horse shit fucking theories anymore, which in reality are just sad and delusional.
If we know the actual root cause, we at least know where to focus, and the pfs foundation is the only thing that is going to show us that, so maybe that is why some people are very “fanatical” about it.
Seriously, for my own sanity, I have to get away from this god damn forum so I do not have to hear the absurd opinions anymore, and if it was not for updates from Awor, I would never come back here.
Honest to God. It blows my fucking mind. Anyone who buys into the bull shit it a complete fucking idiot.
You can have strong feelings about something and disagree with someone else’s opinion of it without being incredibly rude and hateful. Instead of saying, “I LOVE THE FOUNDATION IT IS OUR ONLY HOPE IF YOU DONT AGREE YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID!!!1111” you could say, “I disagree. The foundation has made great strides in the last couple years, and I am confident they will resolve our issue.”
No one is being rude or hateful. The Foundation was started in July 2012 so it hasn’t even been around “the last couple of years.” If you understood the incredible amount of work and the extraordinary set of events that took place to form the foundation, you’d understand others’ excitement.
I would consider the comments “that was a stupid thing to say” and “total fucking horse shit” as rude and Lennon’s last comment toward me as hateful, but that’s just me.
I completely understand why people are excited. My comment concerned the reaction of people on this forum to those who don’t share their faith in the foundation. Whether right or wrong, they are entitled to their opinion, and should not be subject to foundation zealots descending upon them, telling them how stupid they are.
The people on this forum aren’t worried about or others’ opinions or hurt feelings, too much is at stake. This forum cares about action. Few, if any, forums on the Internet have accomplished what we’ve done here, and we will continue to succeed. If you can’t contribute, you should leave. If you want to talk about horse shit theories or how everyone is entitled to their own opinion, take it to another forum.
It is beyond frustrating when people cannot use logic. I apologize if I hurt your feelings, seriously, I am sorry. But dude, your comment, in my eyes, is completely absurd, and it shows that you are not using any logic, whatsoever.
At this point, anyone who is unable to put the work of the pfs foundation as the absolutely crucial thing that it is, is begging to be stuck like this until the day they die, and would rather listen to theories that are an absolute waste of everyones time, efforts, and money.
Cap, have you read this thread from start to finish? I have. It is just another example of a huge distraction. I do not mean that against JN, because he has tried everything, and had the balls to experiment. Still, he has many claims on here that simply do not pan out, and for someone who claims to be a Doctor, the notion that he is uninterested in what the foundation has found, and the research, should be your first clue as to how useful his advice is going to be.
It is absolutely crucial that we find the root cause if we ever want to treat our condition in a legitimate way, and anyone who cannot see that has completely lost their grip on reality at this point and is clinging to false hope.
I am sorry that I had that outburst, truly, and I do not wish you bad, but it SOOOOOO frustrating to hear people say things like you said. That mind frame only holds us back.
Again… if we fuck this up, we will not get a “do over”.
Again, my comment was about not being a jerk to people who disagree with you, not the foundation itself or JN’s theories. If he had said the foundation was the second coming and several people called him stupid, I would be saying the exact same thing.
I guess my last holistic ‘physician’ (Jan. 2013) who would schedule appointments at the end of the day: the rooms were completely vacated, so she could get her ‘holistic’ hands on my lifeless, disheveled and non-functional woki (I told her at the first appointment I was non-operational) was a chance at a “successful realization” I was too naïve to indulge. She implored, that I had to step-up to a higher tier of sexual functionality and consciousness to reboot my system; and, she intended to show me. It’s the not the first time a ‘physician,’ has attempted this. You couldn’t make this stuff up if you wanted to.
Hey,
Just looking to be productive. Of course I believe that the PFS problem should be addressed logically and scientifically. I suppose logic and science is what underpins most of modern medicine. And modern medicine is the means by which most people in the world address their symptoms of illness. But only to tick the scientific box.
The thing is though, that the human body isn’t ‘science’. Science explains very little of any illness. Science tends only to address one variable at the time. As we can all accept, the human body is about thousands of variables operating in balance, harmony, against each other. So in my opinion, it is foolhardy to believe that one can explain the complex processes in the human body by employing scientists, a laboratory etc
Breast cancer, as scientists recently accepted, is over 10 illnesses in one malignant process. The ‘magic bullet’ (i.e.) say, chemotherapy, does not address the 10 illnesses, merely targets the malignant lump itself, and is not particularly successful in doing so.
Of course, if you subscribe to the theory that the root cause of PFS is at the very level that finasteride had it’s cellular effects, then yes, you will believe that the ‘cause’ can be found, and there will be a resulting treatment; ‘a magic bullet’. Mew subscribes to this theory.
I believe the opposite. My analogy is that taking finasteride was like throwing a cat among the pigeons. The pigeons scattered. My ‘theory’ (and this is held by a few others here) is that finasteride deprived us of our most potent androgen, which for our bodies, is akin to an environmental disaster; similar to a drought or famine. As such, our bodies went into hibernation mode (survival mode) as seen in many animals throughout periods of stress. The result was that body temperature lowered through adrenal fatigue (low DHEA and/or cortisol) to ensure our survival. Survival ensured, the unfortunate consequence is a suboptimal sexual functioning, and other noticeable side effects. The theory has clear roots in the history of our existence on this earth, and ultimately pays respect to what we, as the human race are; survivors.
We are not ‘scientific entitites’. We are complex physiological beings, adapted to survive. Science has been around for a few hundred years max, modern medicine for 100 years maximum! We cannot reproduce the conditions of our bodies in a laboratory.
My experience of modern medicine, having been a doctor for 10 years, is that, for the most part, it doesn’t really work. Allow me to use a ‘house’ analogy. If one’s house if falling down, modern medicine will put nice tiles on the roof, a pretty pot plant in the window, even replace the doors, but the house will still fall down. But one will only save the house if the cause for the rot identified (eg, parasites, yeast infections) and foundations reinforced (hormone, mineral, vitamin optimisation, heavy metal analysis)
I believe (and yes, many of you will disagree and laugh at me) that the following should be treated if present:
- systemic yeast infections
- Gastrointestinal parasite infestation
The above are clear signs that the woodrot has set in your house (parasites and yeasts thrive on a lowered body temperature).
and then it’s case of adjusting what is ALREADY THERE:
optimise minerals, vitamins, hormones and regulate heavy metals.
The only pharmaceutical I take is arimidex (anastrazole) because my stat dosing of DHEA causes excessive conversion to oestrogen. I wish I didn’t have to take it. (I am looking into keto DHEA, as moonman suggested).
I don’t mean to offend anyone with my beliefs, but they are unlikely to change because of the success I have had in the last 2 or 3 years. Also feel free to cite Awor’s posts as much more logical or insightful, but to my knowledge he is still suffering from significant PFS symptoms, whereas I’m not. (I’m not competing with him, I’m merely stating the facts).
I also believe that within days to weeks, the final piece of the jigsaw will fall into place which is stronger nocturnal and morning erections. I have no other symptoms whatsoever from PFS, and I can assure you that I was a very heavy sufferer of finasteride side effects. I’ve gone from complete stone cold impotence with 2 drops of watery ejaculate, anxious, depressed and weighing 48kg as I couldn’t eat…to a very athletic 73kg, positive, happy, energetic, v little anxiety, can get full erections in less than 5 seconds, good ejaculate, more body hair, stronger nails, youthful look, no bags under my eyes, tight scrotum etc etc, and yes, I believe my ‘naturopath’ approach gave me all that; esp DHEA, zinc:copper optimisation, E2 management.
And yes, to read the thread from start to finish reads like a total horror show; so much so that I’d be embarrassed to read many of my prior postings. I’ve certainly had my moments, and nearly fallen off the precipice many a time.
It is also probably prudent to question the integrity of claims given my prior erratic behaviour. Certainly at times over the last few years I’ve had to delude myself and present myself in different ways in order to survive, occasionally at the expense of others’ emotions. So I hope I’m being genuine in what I write now.
I’m actually going to go now, and I’ll update in a year or so. I won’t even check replies to this post; I don’t feel I need to.
Take care and good luck
JN
I am happy you feel better … you worked hard for that and the balls to try things … I respect your opinion JN, but the FACT is that the only way we will ever find out the true root cause of our issues (which is very, very important) it to fully support research, which is being done by the pfs foundation. Plain and simple. And in the meantime, sure, lets try to be super kind to our bodies and all of that, but it doesnt change the research etc., not at all.