I think one thing we forget is that the shit we’re going through changes how we act at times, particularily under stress. Not that that’s a free pass to be an ahole, but I think we could lighten up some. Good luck to you JN.
“There is no magic bullet, and I’m not even going to update myself or enquire as to what the scientists discovered; essentially they’ll find little, and will not cure anything.” JN
That’s quite a quote from the doctor. I wonder who you reckon the ahole would be?
I’m not sure what to make of this guy. I see the same words again and again. “Balance”, “holistic”, “harmony”, etc. Not to mention he’s still on about parasitic infection, heavy metal toxicity, yeast infections and the like. I wonder if he’s a left wing guy and it’s more a political philosophy thing for him.
He remarks how humble this experience has made him then he goes on to claim he knows more than all the researchers combined by calling their current course “absurd”.
He’s been a doctor for ten years at the current age of 33? He was a doctor at 23? I know in most countries, including here in the states that’s “absurd, quite frankly”. A minimum of 12 yrs of training after graduating high school/prep school is the norm. Maybe he started undergrad school at 11? Certainly if you are going to hold your knowledge of medicine above multiple research institutions and offer your opinion based on your “10 yrs of being a doctor” and your experience with modern medicine you should offer us a tiny bit of insight on your medical training.
btw- congrats for being able to get “totally fucked up on booze”.
although I don’t agree with what JN has been saying but I agree that there are very minute chances that we will ever find a cure. The reason is there are a lot of diseases and no cure has been found yet. Accutan users have been suffering a lot earlier than us and are still suffering without any help/treatment/cure. Don’t forget they are a lot more in numbers than us.
no offense, but what does your opinion on our chances of a treatment really matter? i will tell you … it doe snot matter, even a little bit. again, no offense. and if i am not mistaken, accutane suffers do not have a foundation and research initiatives going forward to figure out their problem.
Has there ever been a microbiological investigation of accutane sexual dysfunction? I’m not being sarcastic, I don’t know. There arn’t any that I can find. Research is just beginning so who knows what they will discover in the next year or two so saying the root problem is untreatable at this point is pretty much a pointless statement.
All fails we could resurrect your goat model experiment. 
Accutane causes problems? I actually have a friend who has taken both accutane and fin for extended periods of time and came out of both fine. That lucky SOB. lol
calm down guys. I have just expressed my concern about the severity and complexity of the problem. I don’t mean to disappoint any one here.
Your comments do not dissapoint me in regards to the research, I am just being honest and letting you know that your comments are pointless, inaccurate, and serve no purpose.
Hello,
I feel I have to log on to update my progress and recovery.
To summarise, it is 12 years since I ceased my 3 month regimen on finasteride, which totally ruined my life.
As I sit here today, I am in great health and have made a wonderful recovery.
This website now contains a wealth of information, such that it is rather overwhelming. I’ll keep my comments succinct. I’ll make key points in no particular order. These are my comments…
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Our symptoms are diverse, and probably best described as ‘chronic fatigue syndrome’.
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The approach to recovery should be multifactorial. There is no magic pill or magic bullet. There never will be.
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The critical parameter of note is a LOW BODY TEMPERATURE. There are a variety of causes for a low body temperature. Treatment should be aimed at treating the causes for low body temperature. (Essential)
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Virtually all sufferers will have one or both of the following: (Essential)
- gastrointestinal parasites. (can be diagnosed with Stool DNA parasitology culture)
- systemic yeast infection. (diagnosed by a high quality analysis under a microscope of live blood by an experienced diagnostician).
It is essential to get both tests done. Parasites and yeasts thrive at a lowered body temperature. One cannot recover if one has GI parasites and/or systemic yeast infection. Appropriate treatment of the above will raise body temperature and improve symptoms significantly.
- The zinc:copper ratio is critical. (Essential) Manipulation of the zinc and copper to optimal levels will have a positive benefit on body temperature, and alleviate symptoms.
Of note, ‘pyroluria’ is a biochemical quirck which 10% of the population suffer from. It is a cause of low zinc and Vitamin B6. Treatment of pyroluria is essential.
ZInc should be taken at night (bear in mind that the zinc picolinate preparation raises one’s zinc 5 times more than other zinc preparations, and is very efficacious).
Copper should be taken in the morning if one’s copper is low or gets lowered by zinc supplements). The average replacement dose is 4 to 8mg in the morning.
As an aside, I will mention that excess zinc or low zinc, excess copper or low copper are oestrogenic, and if one is to ‘experiment’ with getting the right balance, one needs anastrazole to hand, to reduce conversion to E2. Trust me, when I overdo the copper, I am relieved to take a small dose of anastrazole.
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It is likely adrenal fatigue is prevalent. This should be diagnosed with a saliva test for DHEA and cortisol. (Essential). Low DHEA and cortisol should be treated appropriately.
Bear in mind that DHEA excess (via replacement) is oestrogenic and that a supply of anastrazole (aromatase inhibitor) should be to hand. You will probably need to take DHEA for the rest of your life as it fails to recover to optimal levels. Therefore you will need to take anastrazole for the rest of your life. (maybe 1/2 tablet or 1 tablet per week, in divided doses).
Cortisol, however, is more forgiving. It tends to recover with ‘adrenal resting’ (i.e.) taking hydrocortisone, say 10mg morning, 5 mg lunch, 5mg nocte for about 6 months. Cortisol also recovers by using a grounding/earthing sheet to sleep on, normalising sleeping hours, reducing stimulants etc.
Feel free to refer to the excellent website stopthethyroidmadness.com for help on how to recover cortisol levels. -
You need an aromatase inhibitor to hand for the points 5 and 6. (Essential)
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It is wise to take the following: (recommended)
- magnesium salt baths twice per week. Read about magnesium deficiency. Magnesium is best absorbed through the skin. Ensure your body’s cells are brimming with magnesium.
- Vitamin D levels should be optimised. Vitamin D is actually a hormone and has beneficial effects on T and DHT synthesis and receptor.
- Take a tablet of MSM (organic sulphur) every morning.
- Consider optimising T levels with the following (but not essential)
- grape seed extract
- deer antler velvet
- pine pollen
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Read about over and under- methylation and histamine levels. I overmethylate (thus have low histamine) . I am unsure about how treatment with multivitamin has aided my recovery. Also ensure you are not toxic in mercury.
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It will take time to get yourself better, and you will be experimenting for some time, wrt, say, dosage of DHEA, dosage of aromatase inhibitor.
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If you follow the essential points, you will get better. If you don’t, you will never get better. It’s your choice.
My case: (before addressing points above)
- I had body temp of about 35 degrees Celsius (95 degrees Faranheit)
- complete sexual failure, total inability to perform
- depression, anxiety
(some symptoms above papered over by supra physiological testosterone treatment)
Now:
body temp of 37 degrees (optimum), (99 degrees Faranheit)
- sexual success, nocturnal erections, morning erections, full erections, spontaneous erections, high libido, excellent ejaculation
- excellent mood, no anxiety, excellent self confidence
- very energetic, athletic, sporty, very low body fat, I have a six pack, weight constant at 72kg
- recovery and further growth of body hair, sweating
- my physique and body functioning exceeds most other 33 year old men.
- I have no symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome.
My treatment:
- Stromectol, nitrazoxinide to rid of GI parasites (treatment for a few weeks only). I didn’t have systemic yeast infection.
- I use earthing sheet to sleep on at night (to regulate cortisol)
- DHEA 25mg morning, 25mg at 5pm
- 11mg zinc PICOLINATE (probably equivalent to 50 or 60mg zinc GLUCONATE) at 10pm (please note I have pyroluria). I thus take 300mg Vitamin B6 in the morning as well.
- 4mg copper in the morning
- I take 1mg (1 tablet of anastrazole) per week in divided doses. Be careful with the dose of anastrazole.
- multivitamin as I ‘overmethylate’ (have low histamine), as diagnosed by Dr Greg Emerson. This multivitamin contains biotin, niacin amide, Vitamin E, other B vitamins. My knowledge of over and under- methylation is not good, and I’m unsure how this multivitamin has specifically aided my recovery.
- Magnesium, MSM, 2 drops nascent iodine on skin per day.
- Juice daily. I now cut nothing out of my diet and eat everything and anything.
If you feel overwhelmed, just address the essential points. It will take you a couple of years to get better.
Good luck, take care
JN
** Please note the above are my beliefs and observations only, and that all treatment should be supervised by health care professionals and doctors **
Hello JN,
Thanks for the summary (and for the hassle of doing it…). This is good as I weren’t sure on what things you did with what exactly (eg. how much zinc and copper; what did you use for yeast/parasite infection etc).
I’ve confirmed points 3, 4 and 6 btw. I’m looking into #1/10 (CFS) atm in-depthly, as I’ve been suspecting something along those lines for some time.
Pyroluria is another point of interest, too, though perhaps not the main interest than CFS due to rarity (though you have it obviously…). Do you remember what tests you took to confirm Pyroluria?
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It is likely that if one has pyroluria, they are more likely to have chronic fatigue syndrome. Most people on this forum won’t have pyroluria, but it needs to be excluded. I did a urine test for ‘pyroles’. My pyrole level was 55, from memory. One should not urinate out pyroles, and the figure should be less than 10.
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I suspect that most people will have adequate zinc and copper levels, and civilised zinc:copper ratios. It has taken ages for me to perfect my zinc:copper ratio, and for a long time I was fooled by the strength of the zinc PICOLINATE preparation (much more than say, zinc gluconate). I was taking too much zinc for over a year, and it would wash out my copper, and I felt awful in the morning. I only take 11mg (half of a 22mg zinc picolinate tablet), and get a real boost from taking copper in the morning.
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Please note that to investigate GI parasites, one needs to perform a Stool DNA parasitology culture. Not a simple, regular stool culture.
-Please educate yourself on each point. How you feel is critical, and how I feel is the means by which I fine tune my dosages. I try and write things down, but I have finished my recovery now.
JN
Thanks for reply and info. I’ll look into 'em all.
Re: GI Parasites, I kinda assumed that once I’ve seriously done healing leaky gut / gut dysbiosis, I could finish the job with looking the parasites THEN (Stool DNA parasitology culture) and then use medicine for it if needed… but perhaps I’m undermining their part in my (or other’s case) so I may need to do that earlier.
Best of health!
gefinauser
Parasites? Come on, enough if this. In light of recent studies of finasteride’s affect on the CNS, the neurosteroid convention and findings of very concerning depleted neurosteroid levels, and now dr. Irwig’s study of alcohol aversion for those suffering from PFS, I thought we had finally moved off parasites and leaky gut syndrome.
JN- very happy for you, I really am but your best recovery may have been induced by time.
Thanks for the update JN… glad to hear you’ve made a full recovery.
I don’t doubt for one moment the above findings. I’m sure finasteride does have effects on the CNS, that sufferers have depleted neurosteroid levels, and some are averse to alcohol. I’m sure there are many scientists queuing up to find many more pointless facts about the general debilitation of those who have suffered from finasteride, but it will never result in a magic pill.
If you want to find how to cure yourself, why don’t you make an intelligent assessment of what I have written above? I keep repeating myself that GI parasites and/or systemic yeast infections are key factors in the suffering process, perpetuated by a low body temperature.
If you want to log on to this website on your bedroom computer, with your soggy dick hanging pointlessly between your legs, racked by depression, anxiety and fractured dreams, then please, be my guest. Just bear in mind that if someone had told me the above recipe for success 12 years ago, I’d have bitten their head off. And, as you can read, I have certainly done the hard yards!!
I did not make a full recovery by ‘waiting time’. I made a full recovery by addressing my low body temperature and treating the causes of my symptoms (GI parasites, adrenal fatigue and suboptimal zinc:copper ratio). I am right. You are wrong.
Of course, you have a right to accept the information I type as fact, fiction or pure conjecture. But please make your comments intelligent.
Anyway, this is my last log onto this website for now. I’ll be back in 6 months time, and I’ll write another spiel. In it, I’ll state categorically that the cause/cure is a low body temperature, adrenal fatigue, GI parasites/yeast infections, suboptimal zinc:copper ratio, with an aromatase inhibitor to hand (to mop up oestrogen leakage). It is likely I will be ridiculed, mocked or patronised! But I know I am right.
I’m off to pick up a nice American girl from the airport and have lots of sex.
Take care, good luck.
JN
PS- Mew, could you move this thread to the ‘recovery’ section please? Thanks mate.
Who is this pompous person that writes so condescendingly and with 100% conviction about leaky gut, parasites, copper:zinc ratios, etc? I am glad it all worked for you - but please don’t act like you know anything with certainty. We took a drug that lowered an important steroid (DHT) in our body, and now science has shown that neurosteroids, which are made from DHT, are significantly lower in the brains of PFS patients. But you know for certain that this has nothing to do with our problem? I am sorry - but you are an idiot. Yours is the kind of post that provides fodder for trolls suggesting that we are anti-Propecia so we can sell natural remedies.
The fact the PFS Foundation exists and research initiatives still need to be conducted to investigate the root causes of persistent Finasteride side effects, should be enough for anyone to make their own judgements about users claiming to know “the cure” for PFS – especially when it involves unrelated/unfounded claims such as “parasites” as a cause.
As such this thread will reside in the THEORIES section going forward, where this user’s varied post history/claims remain for anyone interested in his opinions and theoretical approaches to attempting to cure his side effects. I will say though, that the scientific research to be conducted by qualified research professionals will have nothing to do with anything this user has written about, or claims as a cause for PFS.
To JN, glad you are feeling better – wish you the best going forward.
Thanks for the update JN. Many of us do appreciate that you come back and tell us exactly what helped you improve. Hopefully some others can notice similar benefits.
Awor, just posted in the research thread it looks like are future might be getting a little better. Can’t wait for the these ridicules theories to be closed!!!
You’re a random dude just sitting at your house, trolling this forum with this talk of “the foundation is our only savior…”, you’re a coward dude, you’re too lazy to take action, and you use your energy to make posts telling people why they are wrong about what they are doing, instead putting all your chips into another man’s hand, a cowardly task… especially when you’re life is in limbo with PFS. who gives a fuck if he thinks he treated parasites? you’re too ignorant to realize that JN has been dealing with this shit for whta, 10 years or something? and has tried damn near everything. you don’t even know what thing he used caused him to get better. he talks about zinc/copper ratio, taking an armotase inhibitor, optimizing T levels, all while eating a super strict, clean diet. parasites could be absolutely no part of the equation at all. he even talks about over methylating, which I don’t think you realize, is awor’s research is centered around methylation.
you’re a parasite of this forum, you’re sucking the life out of it. you’re a waste of space here, a waste of time. troll.
@JN glad you’re better man. when did you really start noticing the libido kick starting again? that horny feeling in your stomach…