JN's story -- former 2001 Yahoo Group Member

[i]The following is from the old Yahoo Finasteride Side Effects group, posted by a user from the UK who took Testosterone Replacement Therapy + Proviron (DHT) to try and recover.

His last post was in 2006 and I have tried getting in touch with him since then to no avail, so do not know how he is doing today or if he is still on treatment.

I post the below for reference only.



Hey chaps,

My name is J.N and I am from England. I was one of the original guys
who helped to found this group back in 2003.

I have hidden away from you chaps as these forums were making me
crazy, and wanted to get myself better first.

I have suffered TOTAL ED and all the other symptoms; depression,
watery ejaculate etc etc, …everything for 5 years after
discontinuing the drug in April 2001. Since then I have fought and
fought and fought and fought soo hard to get my life back.
Literally, the fight of my life. I am not exaggerating.

I think I am almost better!! I really think so.

My hormone profile was roughly like this

DHT 2.58 range 1.1 to 2.6 (high)
T was 29 range 9 to 32
Free T 79 range 40 to 160 (lower third despite high T!!)
SHBG 39 range 10 to 40. (High!)
E2 55 range 0 to 150

Nothing obvious stands out.

Over the last 5 years I have swallowed sooo many different pills;
arimidex, nolvadex, clomiphene, chinese stuff to name a few. I have
MY remedy below.

  1. Testosterone 80 mgs a week and HCG 250iu twice a week (to keep
    testicles going)
  2. PROVIRON. Bloody proviron. To bind to my SHBG and free up my DHT.

I think my problem throughout ALL this was a high SHBG. Not out of
range, but 39 where the upper limit is 40. SHBG is binding loads of
my T thus placing my free T in lower third and, most importantly, as
SHBG has a 6 times higher affinity for DHT than T, it must be
binding LOADS of my DHT. But free DHT cannot be measured. DHT is the
main dude involved in erections. I literally must have had a really
low free DHT the last 5 years. I have lost literally NO hair. NO
hair. And I´m not taking ANYTHING!! CRAZY. Totally crazy.

Proviron is bloody great stuff.

I use HRT because proviron has a deleterious effect on natural T
production and I just wanted to eliminate T levels as being the
culprit throughout my ´getting better´ process. I am happy to take
HRT for life.

I was initially taking Danazol to reduce SHBG levels but I think the
drugs went off in my bag because I have been travelling through some
hot countries. On speaking to a well informed bodybuilder (don´t
scoff, these guys are properly clued up), he said just take Proviron
and don´t mess with Danazol.

I have taken Proviron for just over 3 months. The progress has been
slow but I am MUCH better and I reckon in the next few weeks I will
finish off my recovery. You are supposed to take Proviron for
´several months´ according to the instructions. I am waking up with
morning erections and I am almost at the stage where I can start
having sex.

Also, some subtle changes that I was looking for are returning. I
always used to have acne on my neck on the right hand side, making
shaving a bit of a problem. I am happy to say the acne is returning.

I am now shaving every 2 days, like I used to. The last 5 years I
was shaving every 6 days. Astonishing.

My voice is deeper, and how it used to be. It doesn´t crack anymore
to high notes when I´m out drinking in smokey pubs with my mates.

I am running to the toilet a lot to piss. I take this as a good
sign. I theorize that with my increased free DHT, the prostate is
bigger and thus exerting an upward pressure on my bladder, causing
urgency. I was looking for this to happen. Incidentally, I am a
doctor so am aware of physiology.

My hair has not started falling out yet again (it was falling out
loads before Propecia, and I have BARELY lost any hair for 5 years,
astonishing, again). But I reckon when my DHT is fully freed up and
the hair thinning cycle restarts, I will lose my hair again. Crazy,
huh!!?? Bring it on!!

Seriously chaps, I´m nearly there. After the most incredible amount
of pain and suffering I have endured. It wasn´t so much the ´no sex´
ban that this disgraceful drug imposed upon me, but the sheer
anxiety and depression, erratic thinking and a total loss of
appetite such that I went down to 8 and a half stone at one point
and had to force myself to eat.

I am not surprised that some chaps have committed suicide with
everything they had to endure. I was thinking about it myself, but
somehow managed to carry on through.

Seriously, I am not suggesting that Proviron is a miracle pill, but
it is a drug that has the desired effect on MY hormone profile, by
binding to SHBG and freeing up DHT, most notably.

I am very well informed about hormone profiles, and have taken
advice from Dr John about HRT. He helped me a bit, but he didn´t
complete the picture. I did it myself, and naturally, I am soooo
willing to help you chaps with any questions you may have. This is a
team effort. I have not played with you chaps the last couple of
years as I have been focused entirely on MYSELF. That is the way I
have done it. Now I am almost better, I will give ANYTHING to help
you chaps get better.

My first piece of advice is to stick with it, and maintain hope.
Always have hope.

I can´t even begin to go throught some of the events over the last 5
years that illustrate the shit, THE FUCKING SHIT I have had to put
up with, so I won´t. But lets just say there were some very dark
moments. Very dark.

Secondly, research Proviron. There are 4 effects that Proviron has
and they are widely found on the net. It acts as an anti-E, it
frees up DHT and T which are most important for us.

I reckon I still have a few weeks to go of recovery (getting
spontaneous erections etc) and then I have to reduce my dose of
Proviron from 3 tablets a day to 1 tablet a day.

I hope I am not counting my chickens before they have hatched, but I
really am almost better. I feel great too.

Soon, I will be the happiest man in the world.

Get back to me!!

PS. In case I have confused anyone, the problem for me was this…

  1. A high SHBG, thus binding all my DHT, thus causing a low free DHT.


Hi chaps,

A lot of my details are in the early posts.

In answer to the questions…

  1. I was 21 when I dicontinued Propecia after taking it for 3
    months. I am now 26, almost exactly 5 years later.

  2. No pain in the groin at all. I felt fine/normal with Propecia.
    No sickness. As in, I felt fine in myself. The sexual sides were
    almost total though.

  3. List side effects

No morning erections
No erections ever, at all, and it would takes minutes to work myself
up to get a 10% erection
Low libido
Crippling depression and ANXIETY and poor eating
Sparse pubic hair, beard growth slow
Reduced acne
Watery ejaculate

Hope this is ok



No symptoms of Peyronnies at all.

Going to other doctors did not help at all. They were more of a
hinderance and acted quite ignorantly, unsympathetically and were

Sort yourself out.

I would be surprised if Proviron could not sort you out as it frees
up DHT and raised libido. Make sure your T is high range.

In answer to another chap´s comment about my free DHT being low
despite having a high DHT level. Well, I sort of explained it.

My T was high: 29 where the range is 9 to 32.
My DHT was high 2.58 where the range is 1 to 2.6.
My free was in lower third: 79 where range is 40 to 160.
This means a high PROPORTION of my T is bound
SHBG is the main ´binding culprit´. My SHBG was 39 where range is 10
to 40.

In answer to another chap´s question about whether 12 was too low
for a morning T level. Yes, that does seem to low. In my opinion.

I have not used Uprima. My main issue is ED.

Hope I have answered some questions and I hope there are more to

Best Wishes



Hey chaps,

Well just checked my email account and I have 40 messages.

I am currently finishing off my world tour for a year (yes, I gave myself the year off) and am in Rio. This computer costs shit loads so I cannot reply to lots of messages, but next Tuesday I´ll be back in UK and will get stuck in then.

Having taken a cursory glance, a couple of chaps have bought Proviron.

Please, please, be patient with it. You have to give it 3 or 4 months. Trust me, I´ve been through it. Literally nothing happens for a couple of months. I seriously reckon Proviron will sort a lot of people out, if not improve people. It binds to SHBG like buggery and often causes TOO frequent erections.

Another interesting point… Bodybuiders use a LONGCHAIN testosterone called Deca. It is not uncommon for some users of Deca to suffer impotence whilst on it. Yes, you pump a long chain T into your body and it CAUSES impotence!! What do they use to combat this impotence? Not arimidex, nolvadex specifically, but PROVIRON. Bodybuiders are not scientists and rarely give scientific explanations to stuff (they tend to go by hearsay and experience). I am SURE that they suffer impotence because of a rise in SHBG. The heavier the T, the more significant the rise in SHBG.

I reckon this is what happened to me. Reducing DHT by inhibiting 5AR caused a backlog at the T level, pushing my T up very high. Seeing as I kept taking Propecia for 3 months whilst suffering sides, my SHBG level got used thi s high normal level and stayed there.

39 on a range of 10 to 40 does certainly seem too high for a chap in early twenties.

I will go through posts with a toothcomb in a week´s time.




No, I am recovering solely as a result of drugs. Drugs that I will be on for the rest of my life.

There was barely any spontaneous recovery for me by my own body alone. (That said, there was a slight improvement when I did weights for 3 months in a row), but it stopped when I stopped doing weights and went back to normal.



Hey chaps,

Right, sorry about the delay. Was living at my parents’ house and didn’t wanna log in with this email address and mess up my 5 year secret from them in one foul swoop.

Here goes…

Read some posts about proviron and dosage and stuff, but I’ll start off with answering this email from sapvsapv.


Right, this is rambling and complex to understand, so read carefully…

My problem I reckon is SHBG (39 on a scale 10 to 40).

For the first 3 months of taking Proviron, I was injecting 120mgs of Testosterone and 2 x 250iu of HCG.

This is my regimen:

Mon 120mgs T, 3 tabs proviron
Tues 3 tabs Proviron
wed 3 tabs proviron
thurs 3 tabs proviron
fri 3 tabs proviron
sat 250iu HCG, 3 tabs proviron
sun 250iu HCG, 3 tabs proviron

So I was taking 2 small doses of hcg the 2 consecutive days before my T injection (as this is when my T is lowest). This is classical T replacement therapy.

Right, after 3 months (I am currently 4 months down the line on Proviron), I was getting morning boners and normal boners were 80 to 90 percent normal. Acne coming back and subtle changes returning. Almost back to normal.

However, the normal T dose per week for T replacement for a guy is 70-80mgs a week. Previous testing has shown that 60mg takes me to the top of normal range of T. So, I was injecting twice as much as I should have done for 3 months (I knew this, but just took double the amount anyway, so I could feel some earlier effects and reduce the dosage accordingly later on).

Right, I started feeling really restless and aggressive at 3 months treatment, so I lowered my dose to 80mgs of T a week. Consequently, my erections have gotten worse, but I am less aggressive and feel good. I have been on 80mgs for 4 weeks now, and I am waiting to get fully better!! YES, I WILL GET THERE, but I know I have to wait some more time. I know it is ONLY A MATTER OF A FEW MORE WEEKS BEFORE I AM BETTER. My acne disappeared for a couple of weeks, but gradually it is coming back as I LOWER THE BAR FURTHER AND FURTHER DOWN. I KNOW I WILL GET THERE AS I KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME.

If you give it only 2 months, you will not get better. If you take the wrong dosage, you will not get better. I know I will get better soon. I am an intelligent guy, am a doctor, know what is wrong with my body finally after 5 years.

I predicted everything that was going to happen to me before I started taking Proviron and I have been right. I was right that my erections are best on a Thurs and Fri because T and HCG actually temporarily PUSHES UP SHBG, and when my T is increasing on a SAT (hcg), SUN (hcg), MON, TUES, WED ( all T as it takes T 3 days to peak in the blood), my erections are less good. I was right because I know my body. Please, trust me chaps, I am right. I don’t know all your hormone profiles and Proviron may not work for you if your SHBG is low, but this stuff is perfectly designed for me, and bodybuilders love it for their erection improving qualities (esp at the end of their cycles, when they have lots of heavy T chains which pushes up their SHBG, thus causing impotence, despite a high T…yes, all their DHT is being bound by the increased SHBG).

I got 300 dollars worth of Proviron in South America when I was travelling…yes…shit loads but it’s cheap and sold over the counter in pharmacies. Over the net, I guess it’s expensive. In Ecuador, it was 3 dollars a pack.

Get back to me by all means, but please read what I have written above carefully and what I wrote last time carefully because I am right!! And arrogant too!!!



Hey again,

One last thing… everyone should get onto some bodybuilding boards and learn some stuff.

I phoned up Mick Hart, UK bodybuilding expert and told him what was wrong with me. This was 2 years ago. He said…‘listen, I’ll tell you whatta do. I got no certificates, no academic grades, just my 25 metre swimming badge, but you wanna take a 250mgs of sustanon and one proviron a day. You’ll be better in between 1 month and 4 months’.

And he would have been right. I would have been, but I was too stuck up my own ass to listen to a guy with no medical qualifications and just brawn. I was wrong. As it happens, I reckon I would be super aggressive on this regimen, and am happy to settle for 80mg of T (although I’m taking 3 proviron a day… (I’ll reduce to one a day for life when I’m totally better)), but I know I’ll get there. I reckon it could even be another 2 months. That said, if I walked to my bedroom now and pumped in a good 200mgs of T now, I’d be better in 2 or 3 days. But I’m not going to. I’ll be better in about 2 months. And I know it.



Fuck that shit man.

I am a doc, my mates are docs. Docs (I had to humiliate myself and see my tutor who was an endocrinologist) are just normal humans. We have to get ourselves outta this total shit. It’s taken me fucking 5 years of pure indescribable pain. Pure pain. Those fucking cunts at Merck are such cocksuckers. I hope their rotten souls suck cock in hell for all I care. I hate it when those leech cocksucker drug reps (from ANY drug company) come onto the wards I work on and try and sell me drugs by sucking up to me, pretending to know my name and offering me free gifts. They all look the same, gelled up FHM hair with Clavin Klein glasses (probably non-prescription), cheap suits and a briefcase whilst I’m striving away. They can suck their own capitalist dicks. I’m gonna break their fucking necks when I’m better and ram so much crap down their throats. I’ve already got the name and address of the Merck manager in the UK, and I’m gonna make his life hell soon.

Just letting off some steam.



As regards not recovering, I think this is bullshit. There is a cause for all this, it may be different in each of us, but most people get better, and those who don’t haven’t put enough time, energy, effort or finances into it.

Dr Crisler couldn’t get me better: he just did what he does best…put me on TRT. He never came up with the theory of insufficient DHT. In fact, he dismissed SHBG readings as ‘immaterial’. I think he is wrong and I know for a fact that the latest bodybuiding tricks are to really get SHBG down by whatever means.

In being on TRT and proviron, I have eliminated low T as being a problem, eliminated high E2 cos Proviron acts as aromatase inhibitor. This pill is perfectly designed!!

I feel great daily. I really do.

Sorry about that outburst, but I am more aggressive these days. Makes a change not to walk around with a hormone profile of a 95 year old.

re, an updated lab report. I don’t have one, but I know that 60mgs of T bumps my T to top of normal range, say 1000. I’m going by my experience and knowledge now, and the advice of bodybuilders who achieve what they want without ever performing a blood test.

PS, For those in Europe Greece is apparently a great place for proviron.


POST 10:

Hey chaps,

Well, I hope you’re all following my progress carefully because I’m getting better. As you know I lowered my T dose from 120mgs to 80mgs a week cos I was feeling aggressive. Hence my erections got worse temporarily. I have now been taking Proviron 3 times a day for 4 months and 12 days.

I am pleased to say that I am starting to show some great signs on 80mgs a week of T, which is pretty much gonna be the dose of T I am gonna take per week for the rest of my life.

Acne is back in the right place, morning erections have started uo again, and I think my hair is about to start falling out again after 5 years of losing literally NO hair. Weird, I know.

I yet again emphasise that SHBG is my main culprit. I reckon when I hit the 6 month mark on Proviron I should be almost better and ready to SHAG!!!

For those chaps who are taking proviron…stick with it. I’m getting there. I’m soo excited. With proviron, I am lowering the bar slowly and soon I’ll be back on the scene


POST 11:

Hey chaps, Well good news,

As you know, I lowered the dose of my T to 60mgs a weeks from 120mgs a week as 120mgs was making me feel aggressive. On 120mg T my erections were virtually back to normal.

I am starting to feel some good effects now on 60mgs a week as things obviously got worse when I dropped the dosage initially. I will be on 60mgs a week for the rest of my life.

I am getting morning erections and they are good quality, ejaculation fine and I feel GREAT.

I am taking Proviron 25mgs 3 times a day and have been taking it for 6 months (yes, yes, I know it sayd you should get better in 3 or 4 months) but I am taking HCG and T shots and both of these cause temporary rises in SHBG (which is the problem for me).

I am also starting to look more bald which is great news.

I urge you to follow my progress as I am getting there, slowly but surely. I know my body VERY well now and I know will progress will end in a full recovery…it´s just taking slightly longer than I thought.

SO long, speak to you chaps in a month or two


The above user’s experience was mentioned in the following theory:

DHT to increase 5AR2 gene expression

I know that this post was from JN, somebody on the old Yahoo! group. He mentions having SHBG at 39, which he claims is high for his age, however, he does not indicate what the measurement is (ie: NG/ML, NMOL/L, MUI/ML, or any other unit of measure).

I am having trouble finding a reliable range for men with regard to SHBG, especially men of an age group (I’m 27). Mine is 40.8 NMOL/L, does someone know a proper range from a credible source for this test. Please indicate who the range applies to (all men, or men of a particular age).


Hey chaps,

It’s JN. Yes, one of the sufferers from 2001. I’m humbled to be back. I’m now 30 years of age.

Firstly, I would like to say that I have dragged myself through a sick version of hell over the last 8 or 9 years.

Secondly, I’m happy to say I’m enjoying life now as a doctor and have a lovely girlfriend.

Thirdly, I’d like to apologize slightly for my ‘over confidence’ in stating that I was ‘nearly better on TRT and proviron’.(circa 2006). Whilst I felt better (energy, appetite) on this combination, I was still UNABLE to have sex.

Fourthly, I’d like to tentatively state I think my cure is Human Growth Hormone. I think it’s THE CURE AND MY CURE.

In August 2008, I sent off IGF-1 and IGF BP3 blood markers. These are good markers for Growth Hormone activity.

IGF 1 was 21 (15 to 43)- an athletic 25 yr old should be about 80 to 100.
IGF BP3 was 99 (115 to 240).

In studies on rats, penile erections were strongly correlated to IGF BP3.
Mine being so low EXPLAINS my terrible sexual side effects caused by finasteride.

I am taking HGH at 3 units per day. This costs about 15,000 US dollars a year. I am also on TRT.

I am able to have great sex with my girlfriend.
My head hair has started to fall out again (studies show that increased IGF-1 is associated with hair loss, so I have heard)
My acne on my neck has come back
My monobrow has returned

These were the things I was looking for in a cure. It seems that HGH is responsible for sexual function, and maybe only a BASELINE of androgens are required.

I think Human Growth Hormone is the cure for many/?all men.

I’m sorry for being away for so long but I vowed to sort myself out before I could help others.

I plan on writing an in depth essay about my suffering and cure using TRT and HGH in the next few days.

I will post it here.

Good luck to everyone here.


did you wait it out at all, what exactly does finasteride do to your body? and is hgh releaser the same thing?

On 15th January 2001, I started to take finasteride 1mg per day to stop male pattern hair loss. I was 21 years of age. My hair started growing back in 6 weeks. After 3 months, I started to suffer side effects.

The following 8 or 9 years of my life were horrendous.

Best described, my soul was smashed by a juggernaut then churned out of a Christmas tree shredder and spat out into a river of shit. Then it felt I was left to drown and rot in my own spitting, twisted version of hell.

I’m very surprised I didn’t commit suicide.

Every day I woke up physically and emotionally drained. Before the day’s fight had begun. And wow, I’ve not stop fighting since. I think I’ve won the fight of my life and I’m proud of myself.

I was a 21 year old 4th year medical student in England. Now I’m 30.

I continued finasteride for a few weeks after noticing side effects as the literature stated resolution of symptoms in ?54% patients and total recovery when medication was ceased. “Nothing to lose then”.

When I stopped finasteride, the side effects persisted. These were the main side effects I suffered…

Impotence. Very weak erections. Completely unable to have sex. No nocturnal or morning erections.
Watery ejaculate.
Low libido
Loss of muscle mass
Loss of stamina
Loss of appetite
Loss of weight
My head hair STOPPED falling out!
Shaved less frequently
Less body hair
Depression and anxiety
High pitched voice (would crack into high notes in a smokey environment)

It took me 18 months to pluck up the courage to see a doctor. Initial endocrinology and urology consultations were not fruitful.

Essentially blood work was unremarkable, except a high normal SHBG, and one spurious reading of low midrange free T.

From memory (and I stand to be corrected to more accuracy)

T was (36) scale 10 to 39
E2 was midrange (80) (<155 for men)
DHT was (2.6) scale 1 to 2.6
SHBG was (43) scale 10 to 45
TFTs were normal.

I was desperately clawing for a potential cure in a climate where there was hardly any information on the net (a couple of fellow suffers and I somehow met and we heard of a guy whose initials were JL, and who had not got better).

It was really scary. Three scared chaps in our 20s trying to make sense of a crazy situation.

Anyhow, we formed yahoo finasteride sufferer group and went from there.

I used micronized T gel on testes as advised by Dr. Abraham Kryger which did nothing.

I made myself a patient of Dr John Crisler and lied to him about the upper limit of T range. My reading was 26 on a scale of 9 to 30. I said the upper limit was 40 and he was content to give injectable T a go. This helped a little bit, but on the advice of bodybuilders, I pumped more into my system, making my T supraphysiological. This made me FEEL better; I was able to eat better, stamina improved and I stopped sleeping 13 hours a day. Nowadays I am on TRT based on Dr Crisler’s methods.

I played around with various doses of testosterone and HCG, then introduced Proviron, which may have only slightly helped erections.

Come July 2008, I was still impotent and UNABLE to have sex. Before finasteride I was highly sexed and very sexually active.

Panicking, a more complete hormone profile was performed. This illustrated

IGF-1 was (21) range was 15 to 43 nmol/l
IGF BP3 was (99) range was 115 to 240 nmol/l

In studies on rat’s penile tumescence (erections), low IGF BP3 correlated with poor erectile frequency. What a glorious day of research!!

The above are reasonably good markers for Growth Hormone activity.

Since September 2008, I have been injecting HGH, initially at the conservative dose of 1 unit per day. I have increased now to 3 units per day.

My sexuality has returned! Not fully to how I was at age 21, but probably to the level of a 30 year old! I am having regular good sex with my girlfriend and I am so happy. I am still playing around with my Arimidex dosage and need to reduce my T levels. Also, my prolactin has a tendency to increase, but hopefully when T levels high normal, E2 and prolactin should behave.

The other subtle effects have included

Increased body hair
Acne on my neck
Monobrow has regrown as it was age 21
Increased sweating
Ejaculate copious and good quality
Libido improved

My head hair is falling out again! Good news.

I am certain that finasteride caused my pituitary gland to reduce Growth Hormone production.

I am undergoing an Insulin Tolerance Test soon to assess the function of my pituitary.

Currently my medications are costing me $17,000 a year. I need to get cheaper meds and reduce my costs massively.

In summary

TRT is


and HGH 3 units per week.

I don’t think I ever needed to be on TRT. What TRT did was allow me to live like a functional human being for a few years until I stumbled across Growth Hormone. I will be on TRT and HGH for life.

The best of luck to you all. I’m sure HGH is the cure for many of you chaps out there. I’m with you all the way.

Oh, and I hope those Merck guys rot in hell.

Hi JN,

I have been following your story since i started suffering in 2006. Congratulations for the achieviement, and for standing strong all these years. Being one of the firsts, you had to do it all by yourself. Do you feel the quality of your sleep has improved? Since you started HGH, has your libido been steady? Do you feel the NEED to have sex? I suppose you had many body changes on TRT, but do you feel HGH has helped your body composition become closer to what it was prior to TRT?

Thanks for the replies, and congratulations!

also are you fertile again?.. are you able to have kids if you want to?..doesnt hgh have side effects too??

My body is getting back to normal before I took finasteride. I believe finasteride did one thing; mess up my body’s production of HGH.

I am strong, healthy, great stamina, have a 6 pack, good sex, horny. Life is very good. Thanks to Growth Hormone. I am going to be a better and more successful person than if I hadn’t taken finasteride.

Haven’t investigated my fertility yet. Theoretically there should be no problems, but my body has been a human guinea pig for the last 8 or 9 years. I take hcg 250iu 3 times a week.

Congratulations on getting your mojo back! I wonder if HGH would help all of us feel normal again? I think a lot of us would like to try HGH and see if it helps, but I wouldn’t even know where to begin to start that kind of treatment. Is it something we could ask an endocrinologist for?

Its curious that Xyrem increases HGH. Maybe thats why it worked for some people. Theory makes sense.

I’m planning on writing a ‘printable information booklet’ incorporating all the information associated with our condition. It will contain a description of what has happened to us, the doctors involved in treating us, the treatments and cures.

This should help educate ANYONE WHO MAY STAND IN OUR WAY. We are going to travel the world with steroids in our hand luggage. We may need to import HGH. We may need information to present to a new endocrinologist.

Essentially, I think finasteride has messed us up ‘permanently’. The treatment/cures are lifelong.

If we can provide an ‘on the spot’ information booklet containing scientific research and explantions as to our condition, all backed up by doctors such as Dr John Crisler, our paths in life will be made easier.

No endo is going to whack you straight onto HGH, I agree. We need to educate others about what has happened to us.

I think it will be useful. I will use lots of information from this forum and I will need the help of you guys.

Why do you say that fin messed us up permanently? I know based on your case it seems that way, but there are others who have recovered in shorter periods of time(1yr to 3yrs off). My opinion is that it affects people differently. Some recover and some don’t. Maybe we should explore other options than HGH first, since it is quite pricey and still in its infancy. Who knows, maybe other techniques might help first and save us $15k/yr for the rest of our lives.

BTW, Congrats on recovering finally. It was a long battle for you.

If you’re going to do this and gather information, scientific data about members on here, orgranize doctors such as yourself and others in the hopes of having everyone find a doctor to one day prescribe hgh etc than I think it would also be worthwhile in my opinion to put together a class action suit against merk. It would be a waste not to after doing all that and I just feel it’s time. I posted way back on here, I have a relative who has one of the most high profile firms in the philadelphia/new jersey area that handles this and I may get into contact with him. I just think if this is the route you want to go than it’s time. In fact long overdue.

Congratulations JN, I think everyone here is very happy for you. I personally am thankful for everyone who started the old Yahoo! group which eventually turned into this forum. If I had never run into this public forum I would still be investing countless hours a week searching for the cause of my problems to no avail, and who knows, maybe I’d still be swallowing that poison (and paying Merck to do so). I see an incredible amount of focus on the sexual sides in this forum, which is understandable. I have concerns about both the mental and sexual sides. What about mental sides? Did you have them? Did they leave entirely, and at what point? (When you started TRT, prior to that, HGH?)

Does injecting HGH shut down endogenous production, like some other types of HRT? What happens when you do not inject HGH? Did you ever try stimulating your own production?

Answers to questions.

  1. I think (unfortunately) it is a wise idea to look at the side-effects of fin as ‘permanent’.

This is beacause I think, in most cases, fin causes side-effects that your body will not reverse. True that some chaps take HCG/Clomid and manage to kickstart their HPTA, but maybe not many.

I’ve always wanted to get back to where I was or even better. (ie) come out of this stronger. I’m perfectly willing to to do TRT daily for the rest of my life to maximise what I achieve in this life. A perfect set of hormones goes a long way to help maximise my potential. If is broke, then fix it. Simple.

Also, it has taken me nearly 9 years to get where I am. I got to where I am by being a strong person, never giving up hope, being independent and being a doc helped me. (in the writing of emergency scripts, explaining things to stupid customs officers, I can write my own HGH scripts). I got lucky here. Hopefully now I think I’ve given you the cure, the path will be easier for you guys. My proposed ‘printable information booklet’ should help inform people (ie) endos, pharmacists, what we have been through and our EXPECTATIONS. A lot of us (I think) will need HGH for life.

8 or 9 year constitutes pretty damn permanent, I’d say.

  1. I’m not interested in a class action lawsuit. I’ve not totally sorted myself out (still need to tweak my TRT, and financially I’m paying out of my ass). I need to devote my energies into sorting myself out and helping you chaps too. And produce this information booklet. Then further down the line we can think of lawsuits. We need to get better first and dedicate energy to this alone.

  2. GCAC… Yes, I suffered mental issues. When something like this happens, mental issues come to the fore. Tell me someone who hasn’t in our situation.

I failed med school, failed postgrad exams.
I was severely depressed, severely anxious.
I was lost and traumatised and desperate.
I’ll stop now.

On HGH, I feel I have more mental energy and think more clearly.

  1. Yes, HGH can shut down endogenous production. GH is produced maximally 2 hours after falling asleep. I inject in the mornings when I wake up to reduce suppression.

Interestingly, scientists say one’s body does not forget HOW to produce GH, but forgets to produce it full stop. Some docs put patients on HGH for 6 months to a year and then take the patient OFF HGH injections. The body, used to the continuous higher doses of HGH then remembers to produce HGH and does so at higher levels. So, in effect, you are kickstarting your pituitary again.

I have decided not to fuck around with this theory. I don’t want to waste any time. It’s about time I reached my potential in life and I’m taking HGH for life. I’m in control.

  1. HGH is administered by a very small subcutaneous needle. Don’t worry about needles. They’re fine.

Another chap asked about HGH releasers. Well, maybe they help, but I think the consensus is that they’re shit. I want the real deal. HGH injections are the way forward, and the cure, I think.

My update is that it is the TRT I need to sort out.

I have supraphysiological T and this is not necessary anymore. E2 (oestradiol) levels and prolactin levels can sometimes get messy (due to aromatisation).

My aim to to reduce T to high normal levels.

As I’ve said, supraphysiological T bought me a few more years and made me feel normal. I was still impotent tho. Now I’ve found HGH, I don’t think I need supraphysiological T.

I will be concentrating on producing the information booklet over the next few weeks.

Today I am going to make a structure for the booklet.

If you have any questions, please don’t pm me. Ask them in this forum. Make them pertinent questions and not silly ones you could easily google.

Then we can all read comments together.

Good luck. I’m with you all the way.


Hey thanks for your advise and I’m glad you’re feeling better.

I’m a 4th year medical student myself and with my situation there are a few things that don’t add up to the HGH theory. I intend to test IGF-1, IGF BP3, and maybe get an insulin tolerance test if the results are not good.

Firstly I took Xyrem which boosts GH production and it did not help. Secondly I suffer from mind, sexual and visual side effects and the sexual symptoms seem to improve with doxycycline - not entirely but somewhat. Why would this be the case? I do not know. Libido is a bit higher, i’m a bit less tired, and my sleep is a bit better. There is no central obesity and when on doxy my appetite is ok and i can put on weight if I eat enough.

Don’t get me wrong there are a few positives for why the answer could be GH. Eating too much carbs like pasta or potato or chocolates “space” me out.

I will get the tests before I make any conclusions. But again congrats.

Hi JN,

Could you test your Androstenadiol Glucoronide? So far, about five guys here have tested and it came very low on all of us. Mine is even under range: 2.44 , range 3.5 to 22.00. This is a good marker for 5arII activity and i am wondering what your number would be after HGH suplemmentation. I tested my IGF 1 and IGFBP3 today, will have the results on the 29th.
I am thinking about doing a test with HGH on my own. Taking injectable HGH one day to see how i feel. What do you think about this? Is 1 Ui one Unit?