JN's story -- former 2001 Yahoo Group Member

General Discussion
#21

Hey JN,

I’m one of the original members from yahoo forum as well(I was on propecia sept 2002-nov 2002). I still haven’t recovered…We’ve talked on that forum before( I was on a different alias name at the time).

Like you, I’ve been 7 years of hell…Celebrating my 7th year anniversary this november is no fun. This company is the most unethical pharmeceutical company i’ve ever seen in my life. They delayed taking vioxx off the market until their patent was expiring just so they could squeeze out profits…They will do the samething with Proscar/Propecia come 2013(I think that’s when it expires).

Anyways, i’ve been through hell…Seen numerous doctors(Some were idiots, but I have consulted with a couple of good ones who atleast TRIED to help me out, and actually believed me, for that I give them kudos). I’ve had procedures, dopler tests, arteriogram, etc… etc… all because of this shit. My T levels went up as far as 1400 while on clomid, and I was still totally impotent.

Anyways, I’m HAPPY you are normal. I’m HAPPY you didn’t give up. I’m HAPPY you are still trying to help out sufferers…I intend on seeing Dr. Crisler soon to get some more tests done, and see what he recommends.

When I get better…like you…I’m sticking around, promoting awareness, and want to take initiative with the FDA to do some more research on this drug, BEFORE the PATENT runs out. (greedy Merck, the maker of Vioxx, Gardasil, and Proscar/Propecia)

#22

What do you think of this JN?

It’s suppose to have pharm grade HGH(somatropin) along with the other amino acids.

hgh-pro.com/faqs.html

#23

Corrieiovip- It takes time for GH to have it’s effects. Weeks. 1 unit per day is a conservative dose but I noticed good effects. I went from not being able to have to sex to being able to. Maybe, the sexuality of a 45 year old.

It took my IGF1 to 32 on scale 15 to 40. I think the scale refers to middle aged men as ‘athletic 25 year olds’ are WAY above the upper limit. I want to get back to a 25 year old sexuality which is why I am using 3 units per day.

I have not tested Androstenadiol Glucaronide. That is an interesting discovery. My DHT was 2.6 where the scale was 1 to 2.6. But yes, it would interesting to know my 5 ARII reductase activity. What are theories about how to increase this parameter? What is everyone’s DHT? I know that Shippen commented to TE (Hair McHair) that chaps with low DHT tend not to get better…

19- Your evidence does not go against Growth Hormone theory. Why don’t you test…FULLY…

T
free T
DHT
Androstendione
DHEA
E2
Prolactin
SHBG
LH
FSH
IGF 1
IGF BP3

and find out where the problem is. I still think the evidence is in the hormone profile.

I think I’m being fair. I know what Growth Hormone has done for me, and trust me, it isn’t a THEORY. It’s cured me in that I feel great, my body is in great shape and I’m having good sex.

Good luck to you and I’m interested to hear what your profile/ITT will show.

JN

#24

An important point I need to make. Bodybuilders have been VERY helpful to me over the years. They know the black market well. They can get hold of anything, and they know what stuff is good and what is bad. They’ve been more helpful than doctors.

That said, ask a good bodybuilder. Like, a competition winning one. Not a dumbass.

JN

#25

Thanks JN.

We don’t know yet how to increase this parameter. One theory is supraphysiological doses of testosterone would increase 5arII activity, as it has done in rat tissues exposed to Flutamide (supressor of 5arII), in one experiment. I always wondered if HGH could restore 5arII. So you pretty much have put both theories into practice…lol. Indeed, i d be very interested to know your 3 adiol-G numbers.

#26

I’m on it. Sorting tests out. Just a practical question how easy is it to get all of these tests. I know some are standard but would it be do-able on the NHS and if not do you suggest any private labs? I’m from the UK.

Thanks again buddy. My father who is a GP is very reluctant to let me have a ITT but we’ll see after the IGF-1 results.

#27

Congratulations JN! You deserve it after so many years of struggle (sorry for my english guys).

One question JN: when you tested for IGF1 e IGFBP3, it was a stimulation test (dopamine or somethig else)? I’ll test this week and when it’s done i’ll post it here.

Thanks.

#28

yes,I believe you are right about the hgh,because most guys here have low lh levels which get increased by hgh,which in theory should cure them.also ghb increases hgh and so does l-arginine which is why people are having success here.

#29

Hi JN,

my GH values were tested some month ago:

IGF1: 437 ng/ml (with range 98-231)
IGF-BP3: 5,26 mg/l (1,73-7,48)

IGF-BP3/IGF1: 3,17 (0-4,5)

I think that excludes a GH deficit, doesn’t it?

Thanks
Oliver

#30

Erm,

I would say so.

Give us a FULL hormone profile though. I still think the clues are in the hormone profile.

I am not an expert, however. I just do my best.

Give me T, free T, DHT, E2, prolactin blah blah…

JN

#31

Oliver,

Are these results prior to TRT? Because Testosterone replacement boosts HGH production.

#32

JN, here you can see my full story and hormone profile (before treatment):

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2640

img35.imageshack.us/img35/2848/hertogheblut2.jpg
img369.imageshack.us/img369/9724 … eblut3.jpg
img371.imageshack.us/img371/2050 … 4hurin.jpg

I’m under treatment of Dr. Hertoghe, a Belgian hormone specialist similar to Dr. Crisler. The most obvious value was my low Androstanediol gluc. of 5.5 (with range 3.4-22) and my estradiol well above range. Therefore he prescribed me 200mg T and 1/4 Arimidex a day (as well as thyroid hormones, cortisone and fludrocortisone). Even on this high dose of T my A-diol gluc. only raised to 10.7. Corresponding to that, my condition (muscle power, libido) was getting significantly better but still is not “normal”. So I think he will propose me to raise the T dose even higher.

#33

Yes. I have new blood tests now but unfortunately my GH values weren’t checked again. But as you considered, they are not likely to decrease on TRT. I will post my new tests after the next consultation on Wednesday.

#34

Hi Oliver,

I think post propecia syndrome is a combination of hypopituitarism and 5arII deficiency. I think we became hypopituitary (it is a gradual disease, worses year after year) while on Propecia, and because of that we did not recover from 5arII supression caused by the drug. In my opinion, to recover from 5arII deficiency, there need to be a high value of HGH AND TESTOSTERONE for a prolonged time, because cells take time to renovate. I take your increase on 3 adiol G as positive sign, even not being so high. How long have you been on hormone replacement?

See, the common denominator we can find in everybody here is one of the pituitary hormones being very low. In your case it was low testosterone, LH, and FSH. In my case it was low GH (194 ng/dl), LH, and FSH. Since JULy/09, my Testosterone is showing low also.

#35

hi oliver good to hear from you. How are you feeling? Have improvements stayed?

#36

Hi Correiovip,

I’m on the full dosage of 200mg T a day for around one month. I agree with you that we might have a pituitary and a 5AR II problem. So I also hope that the enzyme acitivty might recover under sufficient T and HGH. If not, we might be on supraphysiological TRT (+ HCG against testicle shrinkage) for lifetime. But even that would be better than suffering on and on.

#37

Hi Scared,

yes my improvements have not only stayed but increased a bit further. In numbers I would say my muscle power has raised from 50% to 75% and my libido from 50% to 85%.

#38

hi. Great news that you are still feeling better. What is your serum t now? And are you increasing gel dose?

#39

sufferer2001recovered2009, I am very interested in your story. I have some more questions for you I was hoping you could help me with. I’m happy you have recovered from the sexual side effects. One of the biggest struggles for me has been this disconnected feeling where I don’t feel any emotional connection to friends, family, or anyone I care about. Did you have this problem and did HGH fix this? I would love to try something like this. If the pituitary gland just needs to be kickstarted and then it will continue on it’s own functioning like it should, then this might not been the extremely expensive, life long process it seems like.

#40

Hey chaps,

Well, just an update really. Been a bit stressed. As I mentioned in a previous post, I thought I have recovered. I haven’t recovered 100%, but I’m able to have good sex. Fuck, let’s call it great sex!

I’m going to eat humble pie here, and I’m going to disappoint people.

All throughout all this I’ve been very positive, almost able to pull the wool over my eyes and strive for hope and goodness.

I was thinking the final piece of the jigsaw was going to be TRT; I thought my prolactin and E2 were too high.

They came back earlier and they are fine. Mid range.

It looks like I’m incompletely recovered on HGH and TRT. I’m sorry but it’s true. I have to face it.

The overrall issue here is quality of life. Speaking personally, I have a very good quality of life. It’s just that my hair is not falling out (barely at all, and my erections are not recovered). I’m sorry for saying they were. I am confident that IGF values are very important here and essentially HGH has given me a quality of life (essentially, allowed me to satisfy a woman).

Later today I’m going to tell my beautiful girlfriend that it looks like this is the way things are going to stay (at least for a length of time, or until we have worked out any 5 ARII or other issues). I think she will be fine with it. Strangely, women have been amazing to me throughout all this and simply want to be listened to, loved and respected.

I’m sorry if I have given people false hope of a full cure. I know I am guilty of this but I have tried so hard.

I’m going to leave you guys for a bit, but I discussed some issues with Mew about posting IGF evidence and setting up a finasteride sufferers society, which I intend to do.

I just need to relax for the near future. Maybe back in a month.

Best of luck to you all. I’m with you.

JN