I will try and write the list of investigations in the next couple of days.
JN
JN, out of the 18 points what do you feel has been your main issue and what has been the treatment that has helped the most?
Before you were on all the natural stuff from Emerson, you were using T3 and preg - are you now saying they made no difference? your treatment now is made up entirely of supplements and other natural products?
Hi JN,
I think (and I must stress i think), i buy into some of your 18 points as key players in our persistent suffering. I can also see how throwing all of these things (zinc p, transdermal magnesium, lots of exercise, sunlight etc. etc.) can help in restoring a feeling of well being. However, what if you were to stop everything you were doing? I mean, go back to living a normal life for 2 weeks; eat some pizzas, masterbate a few times in one day + have sex through the night (with little sleep), forget your vitimins etc. What would happen to your condition? Do you also experience dips at any point or do you go around feeling like pre-fin on a daily 24hr basis?
Chi
Very good question…
JN,
Congrats on your new job promoting Dr. Emerson.
Just joking of course.
On a serious note, what criteria should one apply when searching for a similar doctor? As you know, most of us don’t live in Australia, so what should we be looking for when searching out a holistic doctor like Emerson?
r u PropeciaSideEffects that created the homonymous site?
did u improve in some way?
Hey,
No I’m not Propeciasideeffects, but I started the yahoo group with him back in 2003.
Chi, to be honest, I think I’d probably slowly deteriorate. What a bugger, I know! I have deteriorated a touch in the last 3 weeks as I split up with my girlfriend, and my sleep has been disturbed from a good 8 hours per night to a broken 5 hours. I haven’t panicked, however, and the last few days I’m sleeping better, and nocturnal erections have returned, libido etc…
I’m a bit of a control freak, but in my recovery, I can’t afford to slip up too many times. Set backs aren’t cool, and this is a difficult thing to crack.
I’m still looking to find a one hour slot to write those investigations- will do so soon.
JN
He will crash, simple is that.
OK, with all due respect let us not get deluded. This is why I asked a very specific and probing question. Unfortunately for everyone here, I think JN, that you are simply managing symptoms, and doing a very good job of it. You haven’t treated the route cause of PFS, as claimed.
HOWEVER… I also follow a similar lifestyle and feel pretty good. It’s much better doing all this stuff and feeling OK than not in my opinion, but it’s not recovery or near recovery. I think it’s important to distinguish between recovery and managing symptoms. Who knows if managing symptoms long term can lead to recovery, though.
Think Chi has hit the nail on the head there.
no
That’s speculative.
It’s highly probable that, as JN says, his condition would begin to worsen again should he take the foot of the gas. However, he’s made is clear he’s happy with his lifestyle. Let’s bear in mind its a very healthy lifestyle and one that he enjoys. It’s not as if he’s taking something dangerous upon himself to manage his symptoms.
Furthermore, just because he’s “managing his symptoms” by doing this doesnt mean he’s not fixing the root cause. Maybe our bodies are just that damaged in some instances that a new lifestyle, like JN’s, is necessary now. In many medical conditions you migth require constant treatment even if you are treating the root cause. So, it may be the case that JN has found the very best “cure” for himself. And who knows - hopefully over a longer time span his condition will be more stable without the necessity for such a lifestyle. Let’s be realistic - the longer the body is downregulated and compromised like his has been the longer it will take for a full recovery - if ever.
Right now, im not sure if im prepared to embark on such a lifestyle to be honest. If it’s a life committment then it’s a high price to pay for someone less into their healthy living!
One huge problem I have with this approach is that I’m in such sorry shape that I don’t have the self-discipline to live an extremely health lifestyle. I will get stressed out to the point where I need to eat junk food to calm down, or I’ll simply lie in bed for hours at a time unable to summon the energy to get up and do something productive. I do make attempts to be healthy, but I know from experience that I’m simply not capable of doing this on a long-term basis. So I’m not too sure where to go from here.
At any rate, JN’s story has inspired me to go and see a holistic doctor, so I will be looking into this in addition to seeing Dr. Jacobs, the neuroendocrinologist. I’ll have to do some research first because a lot of holistic doctors seem like quacks. In fact, I suspect they all are to a greater or lesser extent.
Agree with some elements of what you are saying, but the root cause is the thing that keeps us persistently downregulated. So, still JN is managing the symptoms of the root cause, if you get what I mean, not fixing the root cause, and it seems even this is hard to do, evident by his and other efforts. Assuming of course that the root cause of PFS is simply a damaged, “downregulated and comprimised” body (nothing more serious), then maybe we need to hit our bodies even harder with the natural route. I’m talking JN x 10 or Me x 100, or you x 1000… all in order to stretch, grow and repair the body. I thought I even read something by you recently quoting a guy off a hairloss forum that recovered after smashing exercise solid for 2 years. I guess most of us just won’t be cut out for it (maybe me included) but i personally believe it’s possible if you’re committed, it’s just a bloody tough slog that’s for sure! Imagine the feeling when you know you made it though… you’d feel better than pre-fin 
He’s only been on this regimen for a few months…and hes has pfs for 8 years… Adrenals thyroid sometimes need a LONG time to recover…
I think this is the same for most people. Although look here, a guy that kept it up for only 10 months and recovered: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2199
Granted he’s not one of the worst and there is some ambiguity over the legitimacy of the user (only a few number of posts, the usual suspicions), but it could be true. I don’t see many (if any) others round here that did this for 10 months:
How many can honestly say they followed this exact regime?
Yeah maybe there is a way of hitting the core “harder” but that doesn’t mean he isn’t hitting the root cause.
The problem is, is there any safe way of hitting the “root cause” hard when we aren’t even sure exactly what is it? And even if we did would it be safe? So many questions.
I personally think a way of “shocking” you body into a recovery in a kind of “anti-crash” crash, would, at this point in time, require some sheer luck. Some seem to have been able to get across the line though which provides promise!
JN,
Sorry about your break up. I hope you feel good again soon.
May I ask you why you stopped boosting your metabolic rate a few months ago? If you don’t keep it high, it may drop again, and you’ll head straight to a situation of low cortisol, low thyroid, and low testosterone, no matter how healthy your lifestyle is. I’m actually really surprised you haven’t got there yet, considering that you suddenly stopped T4 months ago. My dr told me that once we manage to raise my metabolic rate, I must keep it high (for years or forever… not sure), otherwise it will drop. He said that in the best case scenario, I must continue taking at least T4 and, probably, pregnenolone. Maybe you want to talk to your dr about it.
How often do you drink alcohol? If you do…is it just a glass of wine or 2? Ever go out and just get trashed? You’re an aussie had to ask lol
JN so you basiclly switched to a vegan diet is that correct? i highly doubt the protocol your on will work for most people were you a mild case by any chance? how can changing diet and taking a few vitamins and minerals increase 5ar II activity and bring the penis back to life? im really confused but anyhow if its working for you im glad you found a solution =)
I have not commented on this thread in awhile but I must say, I do agree with Tim’s sentiments.
The many items you describe in your list are so broad, they could apply to any number of conditions. Further, none of this has been documented to be the result of Finasteride use, and some of it (ie, “accumulation of negative electromagnetic forces”) is bordering on the extreme.
My goal is not to tear your thread apart but to highlight some of the points you mention from a critical POV.
- You mention you had “live blood cell analysis” under the care of Dr. Emerson.
“Interestingly he did live blood analysis on me (took a drop off my finger) and put it under the microscope, the first time he reviewed me. He stated that I had a bowel problem since childhood, and that was wearing my adrenal gland out for years. I guess the bowel problem was the multiple food allergies and the worm and parasite.”
This “test” has been discussed on this site previously, and has been debunked by the mainstream medical community:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5076&p=36554&hilit=live+blood+cell+analysis#p36554
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_blood_analysis
These are typical vague diagnoses provided by alternate health practitioners in order to sell you supplements or dietary products.
As you state here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2261&start=580
You were given “nitrazoxinide for the unidentified parasite”. What kind of parasite is “unidentified”? Surely the doctor must have the ability to send your results to a lab to identify whatever you may have/have not had?
Not that it matters in my opinion, because realistically speaking, none of the above should cause ED, gynecomastia, reduced semen, loss of libido, depression –[Size=4] all of which are listed by Merck as being a possible consequence of Finasteride use and have been noted in various other studies,[/size] which has been documented to occur (at the cellular level) by disruption of 5AR2 metabolism, shifting of androgen/estrogen ratios, interference with neurosteroid metabolism, and androgen deprivation of DHT, the most potent male androgen (which is critical to penile/prostate health and function, for one).
The studies are all on this website and they explain it all perfectly clearly.
Again, another diagnosis which is questionable at best, considering few, if any, medical experts consider it genuine.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthomolecular_psychiatry#Pyroluria
I’m sorry and no offense, but this is quite simply quackery.
Perhaps in your case, not in mine and I doubt for many others.
However, if you have been diagnosed with pre-existing mental health issues prior to Finasteride, it is possible your (or anyone else’s) issues may have nothing to do with the drug.
Not to downplay your experience (which I am not), but this is the reality – as has been noted in eligiblity criteria for lawsuits and research initiatives.
Now we are tying the water supply into a cause for PFS? Please.
Been over this, people have had the tests, there is nothing here, not to mention by what mechanism could Finasteride even cause this?
JN, we already have explanations from the top doctors and scientists investigating this problem, as explained on the homepage of propeciahelp.com – biologically something gets shut off, possible androgen receptor/nerve involvement, acquired hypogonadism, neurological/CNS/HTPA effects due to androgen/neurosteroid deprivation as postulated by Irwig, Traish, Jacobs et al. Perhaps there may (or may not be) a form of acquired androgen resistance at play as well – hopefully in time, via scientific research, some answers will be shed on this question.
We also have comments on video from Crisler noting many men continue to suffer from all the symptoms of hypogonadism despite normal levels of Tesosterone, and that he has noted that often it takes supraphysiological doses of Testosterone to exert a positive effect. I’m not going to say this is de facto evidence of acquired androgen resistance, because it is anecdotal, but it is certainly something to think about – especially as we have many guys here who have tried TRT and noted little sustained improvements.
I can understand your need to find relief from your symptoms but please do realize that much of what you are proposing as a cause for your (or our) symptoms certainly falls outside mainstream medical science (which, just because they have not found the root cause yet, doesn’t mean it involves “parasites”, “poor electrical grounding” or any other such things) and as such, is and will be the subject of much more scrutiny than normal, due to lack of plausibility or scientific evidence to connect Finasteride use to such ideas.
Anyway, I’m not here to argue with you. As you state previously in this thread, you believe you now suffer from chronic fatigue syndrome, potentially as a result of Finasteride use. If this is the case and you are feeling better by treating the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome, I wish you all the best – however, that is a different beast than PFS altogether.
Good luck.