.
JN and 19 both of you have different theories and have arguments to support your points.
I want to know
If ARI is the cause of the problem then I think ARs should be either down or up. how would you explain whenever any fin afectee uses HRT He initially feels well but then slowly deteriorates and finally goes where he started his journey untill he adds up another thing to his protocol to go up and then come down again.
same question is for JN.
sps
19: our PFS symptoms are widely ignored by the medical community. Stop using the medical industry’s ignorance and motivations against us as a same reason to discredit other treatments.
The point of correcting low cortisol is so the thyroid can actively work in the cells and allow proper metabolism. High cortisol can kill sex drive but that is not what we are talking about here.
cortisol should be high in the morning, and low at night, and between the two from noon-4 pm-ish.
martinM - I don’t think it is wise to discount the medical community because our symptoms are not recognised yet. The fact is they are slowly becoming recognised. There was that study recently which documented them and there will be the study we participated in soon too. I know how the medical world works. Doctors listen not to patients so much but to researchers and journal publications. Researchers are the people that could ultimately help us. By turning your back on them you might miss an opportunity. Chronic fatigue syndrome is a condition that took a while to become recognised but eventually was and now is being looked into properly. Patients who suffered with it and were ignored by the medical world hated doctors for it and understandably so but it is science that will help them. Medicine can be a wonderful thing giving diabetics the chance of life, making disease more tolerable. It has come a long way and still has a long way to go. Don’t reject it because most doctors are not initiators.
Low metabolism - defining feature of it is weight gain. Have you experienced this?
The transient nature of HRT is an interesting one. It helps and then it doesn’t. I’m not sure what happens exactly. Its a question I’m still trying to figure out. I will get back to you on that. I don’t think its as simple as AR being up or down. Many things regulate its expression and what happens after testosterone or DHT has bound to the AR.
Another problem I have with JN’s theory is that it doesn’t explain the other few recoveries whether it be Mitch, Ithappens, searchfhealth. I think thyroid treatments can help but not sure why yet. I don’t proclaim to know everything. I can’t. I’m trying to link all our stories including JN’s into a workable hypothesis. I need time to do this.
I find it strange that there have been several different ways ppl have recovered. I guess it just depends how bad your nervous system has been damaged. It seems like no two ppl are alike when comparing blood tests either.
I’m not discounting everyone in the medical community but you have got to look at the macro picture. For every dollar spent on healthcare another dollar is spent cleaning up the fallout. The majority of the fallout and problems come from prescription medications, which is how we got to this point. There is an industry at work and we are a cost and risk to this profit center.
Mitch took either cort or thyroid meds, didnt he?
Low body temp is a sign of low metabolism, many of us seem to have it, JN and myself included. In fact JN’s progress has correlated with an increase in body temps. Regarding weight gain, there seems to be a correlation of losing muscle and gaining belly fat. Muscle is heavier than fat. So it is likely that some will lose weight and gain a few pant sizes.
I don’t see you disproving this theory at all, in fact you seem to be denying symptom based diagnosis, treatment, and improvement. Denying these things is what got me here, if I’d either recognized or paid better attention to the symptoms I would have stopped taking fin years earlier and hopefully not ended up in this mess so bad…
I’m not trying to say that JN is not having benefit. I am merely saying the reasons he is having them are not because of a HPTA axis problem.
I just worry that people will think playing with hormones is a clever thing to do. As I said I think thyroid meds have a place but not in a HPTA way and not in a reverse t3 way either.
I guess all I’m saying is be careful. You can make the situation worse. As you say the majority of the problems come from prescription medications. I speak up here only coz I’m worried people will mess their lives up even more. Hormones can help some people - they don’t help everyone and some people build up tolerance to it. To blanketly say they help everyone is not helpful. I wish to understand why they help some and not others. Mitch did have thyroid supplements but only for a short while and currently takes nothing. Nothing.
JN’s story is an extremely useful one and I hope he continues to let us know how he is doing. We’re all in the same boat. I wish you all the best.
I understand where you are coming from, but we can’t just sit around and wait to recover through time. Its simply not going to happen, unless you are extremely extremely lucky. Sometimes desperate measures require desperate actions… I just cant sit around and wait for some miracle to happen, and I’m not smart enough to find the actual reasoning behind any of this.
I think we should not be making any negative comments about JN or Awor. These are only guys who are doing something actively which is very informative for all of us.
Awor has applied DHT directly and says nothing happens. On museclechatroom there are few guys (every body knows them) who have been on HRT for years, constantly trying to get normal but sadly after many years their war is still going on. when I pmed them it turned out almost all of them have used 5AR inhibitors. one of them used saw palmetto for 15 years but does not acknowlegde that his problems are because of SP. We know simple hypogonadism can be treated just by taking T injection or Gel as was the case with Awor and Whalen. When I was on Gel I got worse. initally I got very energised, libido went through the roof but ED got worse and then slowly I got worse and worse untill I was not able to walk.
2 days ago I met an endo who looked into my case and told me that if I try T injection I will get the same sides as I got from Agel. He told me to stay away from any T supplements. Maybe Awor and JN are pointing to the same theory but through different routs.
I was ramping myself up for verbal jousting session with 19, but I simply don’t have time as I’m off surfing now with my girlfriend. Anyway, I appreciate contrary opinions to mine, and welcome them.
The exact truth is that I have brought my body back from the depths of dysfunctionality and my mind back from the rank dungeon of profound depression and anxiety. I am fighting fit. I want sex every day, I have the energy of a top club athlete, the mental alertness of the good emergency doctor I am. In my day off, after helping clear the debris from the floods that have hit my city, I am about to nip down the coast for a surf until dusk. Love it!
The theory I have worked on, along with anonn1, bostonusa and martinM makes sense and I am 99% sure we are correct. I advise anyone here to take their body temperatures at 4 different times throughout the day, get a full thyroid screen including Reverse T3 and a full adrenal screen via a saliva test.
I am not massively interested negating awor’s theory as I have always known it to be bullshit. But feel free to spend more years of a wasted life wandering down that dead end track.
I am also a minimalist wrt medications. I don’t want to be on expensive, time consuming medications for the rest of my life. I have had frank discussions with my various 3 anti aging doctors and they all believe there is a good chance I may manage to come off all meds in the future, maybe after a year or so. That said, life optimisation (which I am certainly into now!) may mean taking bio-identical hormones enhance the quality of my life!
Anyway, I best get on and surf! Take care chaps.
JN
.
-
The reason you better then feel worse after testogel is the aromatisation into E2, in an already pro-oestrogenic state. Your state is ‘pro-oestrogenic’ because of a lack of DHT metabolites (which in turn is due to low 3 HSD activity because of relative lack of thyroid hormone). I hope my cascade makes sense!
-
I take T3 3 times a day.
8am- 50mcg T3 with 20mg hydrocortisone
midday- 25mcg T3 with 10mg hydrocortisone
4pm- 25mcg T3 with 5mg hydrocortisone
JN
Hi JN,
Congrats on feeling better. I know you been through hell to get to the point you are at now. Could you please let us know All hormones and supplements that you are currently taking. I know you were on TRT, HCG, HGH in addition to the thyroid meds. I’m just curious to know exactly what your current regimine is.
Also have you noticed positive sexual responses to taking the T3?
JN you’re taking over 30mg of HC( not including at night), which is only recommend on STTM.com for severe adrenal fatigue. Actually, thats more then ive ever seen taken. STTM recommends 27mg at most… can you comment on that please…
BostonUSA; scroll back a page or 2 and you’ll see the complete list. You’ll see a good updates. Yes, yes, yes to positive sexual reponse on T3.
Toadstool; yes, I am a bit concerned about the dose of hydrocortisone. I take 35mg. Good comment. I thought the STTM limit was 37mg?? (20, 10, 5, 2). I have heard of people taking the dose I am taking, women included.
If anyone has any further advice on my dose of hydrocortisone, I’d appreciate it. I may increase my T3 to 125mg per day and cut back on the hydrocortisone. My anti aging doc takes 20mg hydrocort in the morning himself.
BTW, I would like to make the following point. It MATTERS what time one takes the hydrocortisone. Why? Because ACTH accentuates the hydrocortisone. ACTH, in accordance with one’s TRIurnal variation, peaks in the morning. I have noticed a significant deterioration in my status if I take my first dose of hydrocortisone at say, midday. ( I work varied shifts, evening shifts, nightshifts etc). At midday, I one doesn’t have the ACTH available to heighten effect of hydrocortisone.
From now on, even if I’ve worked evening or nightshifts, I have to set my alarm clock to religiously take my hydrocortisone at 8am, midday and 4pm.
Laters
JN
Hi JN:
I just wanted to thank you for all your dedication in this thread. I’ve actually just read this entire thread. It took me about 2-3 hours! lol! But I have taken notes on different things you have said and I am planning on going to a urologist to talk to them about it because I don’t really know what other doctor I should go to. I am only 22 and in my final semester in college.
But I noticed in another thread, you said you were taking around 10,000 IU of Vitamin D. I read in a book called the 4 hour body that the toxicity level is around 2,000 IU and anything above that can have side effects. I really do not know much about it, but I just wanted to let you know. I didn’t see it in your most recent post about what you were taking, but just wanted to leave the information.
Also: You say a lot about thyroid/adrenal type issues. Is that the basic of it? Like is there a specific field of research or maybe a website where I can research it? I really want to do more research on it and understand more about it because I have a feeling none of the doctors will know what I am talking about and I do not want to make any kind of mistake. I was actually considering getting testosterone, but I read back in your thread about the dustin guy who took a lot of it, and how it had bad side effects. I just want to know a lot about what I am getting into.
Thank you for everything you are doing. Cheers to you.
I’m going to jump in for JN here. Many of us here believe that the current Vitamin D toxicity levels and RDA are incorrect. In fact, the body can produce much more than 2,000 IUs being exposed to sun for 30 minutes.
For a basic understanding of thyroid/adrenal issues visit these two sites:
thyroid-rt3.com
Hc saved my life and fixed my ED
before that, never, no go, no show, nothing, not even a bare function
theories:
our bodies are in an inflamed state, and has too much stress hormone norepinephrine
HC lowers NE sufficiently, adds to our depleted cortisol production line, and is anti inflammatory
take tylenol or curcumin if you have no ED and see if it improves your time… anti inflammatory andi PGE2
to everyone, thank me in a couple years