JN's story -- former 2001 Yahoo Group Member

General Discussion
#441

Quote a source that says correct physiologic doses of corticosteroids cause any of these things, ditto for mesterolone and liver malignancies.

As long as it takes. However, I don’t take most of the things you’ve listed, and I doubt that all of these things would be necessary for anyone. Assuming they were, we are talking about a HUGE commitment… i put my pills in a 7 day pill box and fill up my syringes every 7 or 8 weeks. This means I spend less than 15 minutes a week adminstering this protocol. Sometimes I don’t know where I find the time…

.

You did, by describing adrenal fatigue in your denial of adrenal fatigue, and calling it somethimg else… “decreased output”" if i remember correctly.

I was specifically referring to this:

But, hey…start with whatever you’ve got handy, because you’ve made a lot of claims with no evidence to back them up. This is irresponsible.

This is not a source

Also, not a source, particularly since you haven’t given any specifics. In addition, how do your tests negate a condition that tons of people have had and have recovered from?

I’ve read plenty, and the fact that you can find some people denying the existence of AF doesn’t make it so. I think most people here have had ridiculous experiences with endocrinolgists well versed in those same texts. To be honest, I almost didn’t respond to your silly post because of this sentence-- if your ideas are too complicated to explain in greater detail, do us all a favour and don’t bother posting. We need facts, not fancy.

Absolutely true, absolutely false.

What does chronic fatigue have to do with what we are talking about?

It sounds like you have had a bad experience and I’m sorry that you’ve suffered so much, but you are irresponsible in posting the experiences of one person as evidence that documented phenomena do not exist. Please think before you touch your keyboard again.

#442

Hey chaps,

Let’s try and keep this on the right tracks, although I agree some interesting points have been made.

Solonjk, I think the adrenal gland plays a big part of our problems. Cortisol (produced by the adrenal gland) would have caused the conversion of T4 into reverse T3, giving me a chronic fatigue syndrome illness. Sexual dysfunction was a notable symptom because thyroid dysfunction is strongly associated with sexual dysfunction (in the study I posted from 2008).

In taking T3, I have managed to sink my cortisol level from top range to bottom. I now have adrenal fatigue.
WRT hydrocortisone treatment; I plan on monitoring my 24 urinary cortisol levels to ensure I’m not taking too much, and therefore will completely avoid the long term side effects of corticosteroids.

Whilst taking all these hormones is a hassle and an expense, and not something I ever imagined doing when I was an extremely healthy 21 year old, I am really up for it. I’ll do whatever it takes, eat whatever I have to, and live my life however I can, to feel good, and be healthy.

My update is this:

  1. I have an appointment on 3rd November with my friend in Perth who is an anti-aging doctor. He believes I should be on hydrocortisone, and actually warned me prior to T3 treatment that I would need some.

  2. I was given a Vitamin B12 injection yesterday, and wow, that has completely brightened me up!! I was low normal in B12, and after a 1mg injection, I am suddenly much brighter, my thoughts much clearer, my mood elevated, energy levels much higher! I didn’t expect this at all. Has anyone else had this experience? There is no upper limit of B12, and I shall be having injections weekly. Really quite surprised at this result.

My treatment protocol is now resembling that of thyroid/adrenal patients, and those with CFS.

JN

#443

You are confused and chasing red herrings.

#444

Mew, could you kick muscleman off this site? Look at his previous posts.

JN

#445

JN, Referring to the prior posts, what about DHT?

#446

None of my posts on this site warrant being kicked off, i have been nothing but honest and straightforward, i have finally found out what went wrong with me after being half way around the net and found myself here - i suffered from 5ar inhibitors. I have found something that TRUELY helped and its natural. I have lots to offer. However you going off in tangents, claiming to recover then claiming you are not for 9 years, pretending youre some kind of trail blazer is hurting other people, by influencing them to try what you did and then finding out it was one of your red herrings.

#447

MartinM,

DHT does help with most symptoms, but I’m not taking it as I believe our Type 2 5AR enzyme is perfectly functional. I believe we are low in 3 Adiol G because of the downregulated 3 HSD enzyme (controlled by thyroid).

I want to get better by correcting the main hormones responsible for my suffering. DHT metabolites are only low because I am hypothyroid. (and now adrenal fatigue). DHT metabolites should increase when thyroid/adrenal issues sorted.

Also, I am quite stable in my use of Arimidex and clinically I know DHT inhibits my E2 (and thus interferes with arimidex doses).

Additionally, DHT makes my mastoid process (behind the ear) grow a bit. And then, when I stop DHT, it seems to shrink back to size again! (This sounds bizarre, I know).

JN

#448

I too belive thats the reason for low adiolg. Interestingly enough Dr jacobs recently suggested to one of his patients that he might benefit from dexamethazone since acth testing suggested cah or enzyme defficiancy.

Among various treatments tested, dexamethazone and 6-n-propyl-2-thiouracil modulated the levels of mRNA for 3α-HSD, indicating that glucocorticoid and thyroid hormone may play a role in the regulation of 3α-HSD expression.

#449

Hmmm… Surely it could take many months of DHT injections to see any more positive effects if any where to arrive… especially since Masteron is less effectual than actual DHT [1]. But I appretiate your impatience. I think the only thing that keeps me going is thinking a cure is around the corner… Can I ask some questions -JN-?

As Fin’s primary effect is to interupt 5ar2 do you have a theory as to how/why would 3a HSD be effected not 5ar2?

Is it actually 3AdiolG that is important for the mind and penile architecture and not DHT/5ar2 itself?

It is known that 3a HSD is also present in muscle, it breaks down DHT and inactivates it, DHT cannot therefore exert anarobic effects within muscles.
If 3a HSD cannot deactivate/process DHT in the muscles and because DHT is more competitive (x4) in its binding to the androgen receptor prehaps this is the reason for muscle loss/weakness in PFS?
DHT is exerting its effects on muscles (which it is not designed for) more than T.

Thanks

[1] http://gbnstore.net/injectable-steroids-sachets-338/drostanolone-enanthate-2985.html

#450

Where I’m at.

I’m determined to smash this and make myself feel better and better. This is my current regimen:

Testosterone (Sustanon 100): 30mg IM twice a week
HCG: 150iu 3 times a week
Arimidex: 1 mg tablet split into 4, taken over a week

T3 80mcg per day. ( I have gradually reduced this from 250mcg per day due to high T3 levels)
Vitamin D: 5000iu per day
Vitamin B12 (as hydroxocobalamin) 1mg IM every month.

A big vat of juiced vegetables and fruit (mainly vegetables) every day
A very healthy diet. I get my tips from the website of a doc in Australia: drgregermerson.com
Lots of sunshine
Lots of exercise
As much sex as I can get

CHANGES TO BE MADE IN THE NEAR FUTURE:

  1. Replace T3 with this:

Morning: 1/2 grain thyroid extract. This contains 60mg T4 and 6mg T3.
plus 20mg T3
Lunchtime: 20mg T3
Evening: 10mg T3

  1. Hydrocortisone may be introduced 3rd November
  2. HGH at 3/4 unit per day. I’m excited about this. It’s clinically indicated as I have low IGF-1 values.
  3. I am exploring folinic acid according to the following research article:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16889122

May I just say that Vitamin B12 injection only 36 hrs ago has had a wonderful effect on me. I’m so much brighter, positive and energetic.

I’m making great progress and as the months go on, I feel better and better.

JN

#451

Similar here-- 75 mcg is working well for me.

If I were you I’d have a look at the thread I posted earlier about pregnenolone, specifically the one called Jansz’s Pituitary study. The theory is that a certain kind of pregnenolone can eliminate the need for HC, dhea, and reduce the amount of thyroid meds one needs. The idea is that by filling up on pregnenolone, your body has more of the materials that it needs to make the hormones downstream, eg cortisol. I was on 20-25 mg HC per day and have now been off completely for several months due to the preg, feeling much better than when i was on HC.

Have you considered GHRP-6 instead of GH? Your aa doc should know about this.

Curious-- you said you had an E2 of 25. What were the units and ranges for the test? Mid-range should be your goal, assuming the test is accurate. Testing for E2 is difficult and some tests are not at all accurate-- I’m not sure about saliva tests, and this definitely warrants some investigation. You may need to adjust E2 by feel, patiently, over a few months. I’d find out as much as possible about the type of test your doc uses and specifically why she chose that particular test, and how much E2 she believes is necessary for males. It sounds like you’ve got a good doc, but this is really important, and you need to follow up on it.

Another question which relates to our T3 therapy, and for which I haven’t been able to find a convincing answer, is what is the approximate half life of T3? I have read it has a very short half-life (several hours) and thus needs to be dosed several times per day. However, the package insert for cytomel states 2.5 days as the half life, which is definitely not short. I take regular T3 once per day and have no problems with fluctuations. Furhtermore, when I have adjusted the dose, the changes have taken place slowly, over maybe 4-6days, which seems like an indication of a longer half-life, though I don’t really know. Any ideas?

#452

Thats an interesting thought about dht metabolism and muscles.

I remember reading that fin would loose effectivness over time for hair regrowth. It just stops working for some after a couple of years (hairloss forum talk but my doc mentioned it aswell). Is there any info out there regarding why or how this is happning?

I doubt the body is able to up the 5ar to the point that 70% reduction is overcome? What if its the 3a hsd thats downregulated to slow down the metabolism of dht in tissue. Sounds like a reasonable idea as to how the body would deffends itself against 5ar inhibitors.
Much like what seems to be happening is hirsute women.

Results: In genital skin, tissue DHT and T concentrations in hirsute women were 1.90-fold and 1.84-fold higher than in normal women (P =0 .002 and 0.03), and relative expression of AKR1C2 mRNA was reduced approximately 7-fold (P = 0.04). Genital skin from hirsute women showed less metabolism of [3H]DHT to [3H]3-diol (conversion ratio, 0.24 ± 0.19 vs. 0.85 ± 0.55, P = 0.01).

Conclusions: In genital skin of hirsute women, reduced AKR1C2 gene expression and 3-HSD activity results in decreased DHT metabolism and elevated tissue levels of DHT. Diminished DHT metabolism may play an important role in the pathogenesis of hirsutism.

#453

I’m also experiencing benefits on a high dose of fish oil - it noticeably improves my concentration and memory. Also, when I forget to take it, I get a weird feeling at the back of my neck, and when I do take it, sometimes it feels warm there. I offer no explanation for why that is, but alongside a high dose of testosterone and daily gym visits it’s given me a good 80% of my cognitive function back.

#454

Am spending some time educating myself on www.realthyroidhelp.com to understand thyroid/adrenal issues properly. I’m pleased with the effect of the Vit B12 injection. Feeling good these days and have an excellent quality of life.

Libido is low, however, and I should be starting T4 soon to reduce my SHBG (which I suspect is high, although not recently measured).

Either way, most people feel better when T4 introduced.

Keep going chaps!

JN

#455

JN,

that’s a very good forum. There’s quite a few very knowledgable people on that forum. A heads up though, they don’t allow discussion on that forum about Adrenals. It’s kind of crazy and quite a few people complain about it, but the woman who created the forum doesn’t allow it.

It seems so ridiculous knowing how interlinked the two are. It would be like Mew creating this forum, but saying we can only discuss sexual side effects here we can’t discuss mental, physical or any other problems.

Have you had your adrenals tested yet? I don’t recall seeing your test results. I just started cortisol treatment.

#456

Yes, I want to get to grips with issues such as
-Hydrocortisone replacement
-Aldosterone
-Vit B12
-Folinic acid
-Ferritin
-Introduction of T4
-The various strengths of T3. (I have ordered cytomel from internationalpharmacy.com).

There is probably enough chat about adrenal disorders to learn lots. But there is an associated adrenal forum. I have had my cortisol checked. I will repeat:

Serum cortisol pre T3 treatment was 600 ish range (100 to 650)
SALIVA cortisol after 3 months T3 was 13 range (6 to 43).

The taking of finasteride has led me on a journey through hormones and actually, all health related issues. It is likely that I will always need to keep abreast of developments, nutritional factors etc, to maximise life quality. For me, whilst the intitial starting point was ‘getting fucked up by finasteride’, the endpoint is an indulgence in a healthy life, to maximise quality. My immediate aim is to increase libido, start on half unit HGH per day and progress further.

Good luck Boston!! Let us know how your cortisol experience goes…

JN

#457

JN,

I believe I’m slowly heading into your direction…Nice…

#458

Just a quickie.
Starting HGH on Friday. 1 unit per day.
Also, just had a phone consultation with a well respected anti-aging doctor, who I have seen before. He is a keen student/disciple of Dr Thierry Hertoghe.
I wanted a script for hydrocortisone.
I came away with scripts for the following:

Hydrocortisone
Aldosterone (with caution)
DHEA
Melatonin
Oxytocin
Pregnenelone
Progesterone

He told me I should take HGH 1 unit per day.
He said the above will get me feeling really good.

JN

#459

Holy fuck… you even got oxytocin? all for just asking for hydrocortisone?

#460

When you say low libido, are you comapring to 10 years ago? If so then maybe you arent low.
How many times a week do you have the urge to do it?
Just a thought.