I did participate in the trial. 3 weeks ago. I believe I was accepted. I answered all the questions, etc.
I would not even think of refusing to be in that study. Propecia has been the bane of my existence, I would do pretty much anything to help.
Just to update everyone.
Andractim is holding me quite well. The more I apply, the better I feel. The best barometer of my suffering is how I feel. Really.
I manage to get away with 50mg T every 5 days whereas prior to the use of DHT, I required 250mg per week. My T is in normal range.
Clearly Andractim is not making me completely better although if I was to double the dose, I would feel even better. Currently I apply 15g to 20g per day, where the trials were done on 10g (in 2 applications). The question is whether I am needing supraphysiological doses of DHT for a given effect (whether there is any receptor insensitivity). I do not yet subscribe to this theory; instead, I believe transdermal DHT is a poor method of DHT replacement due to cutaneous formation of Adiols, as opposed to target tissue.
The big test comes with DHT Heptanoate which is still being made up in a laboratory for me.
In addition, I’d like to add that when I take an IM dose of Mesterolone (Proviron), my symptoms are alleviated further. I have made a formation of 25mg/ml mesterolone. When I take 1ml (which is the same as swallowing 20 Proviron tablets), my energy levels increase markedly, mood and erections improve markedly and I feel much better.
I have to be careful not to take too much Andractim or Proviron as my kidneys still slightly ache from my ridiculous experience with Masteron. Really. I apply a large dose of Andractim and 10 minutes later I can feel my kidneys aching. I take Mesterolone IM (1ml) and my kidneys will start aching.
It’s all a bit of a balancing act, and I think my kidneys will take some months to recover, and I have to be careful.
I am waiting for DHT Hept. I will be introducing it very slowly at a low dose, tapering up to get effect.
Importantly, I have reached a place where I feel quite happy. I am aware of my depressive feelings (esp in the mornings), but have an excellent quality of life and probably achieve more on a daily basis than people who are not depressed. I have a list of enjoyable things I do on a daily basis (jazz piano, cooking a la Masterchef, going to the gym, rollerblading). I am even into painting and have discovered I’m actually quite good at it! Am still governing the centre of midfield for my footy club (a touch of Mesterolone a day before a match is required to give myself a DHT boost).
I am able to make my girlfriend laugh more on a consistent basis. On 250mg T per week (and not taking DHT) I was agitated and fractious. I feel more emotionally balanced now and my relationship is going well. Importantly, we have good sex twice a week and my ability to perform is not too bad (about 60% of pre fin). She has noted an improvement in my functioning since being on Andractim, and I like to save those 2 doses I allow myself of mesterolone for her! (Bringing sexual peformance up to 70%, maybe 75%)
My frenetic search for a cure over the last 9 years has been because ‘I cannot take that shit feeling on a 24/7 basis’. It is (and was), as George Orwell wrote in 1984 ‘like a boot incessantly stamping on your head’.
I can manage that feeling better now. I want DHT Hept to work for me.
Laters
JN
Hello,
Something rather strange is happening to my body. I decided to stop Andractim 4 days ago as I was getting an ache in my kidneys. (My aim was not to stop it totally but to take it only when necessary to give my mood a bit of a boost, and possibly titrate T up to compensate for the reduction in DHT).
Thus I am currently on the following regimen:
T 50mg per week
HCG 250iu twice per week
Vit D 10,000 iu per day (and have been since 14th April 2010)
Naturally, 4 days ago my significant concerns were a BIG deterioration in functioning; psychological and physical. By stopping Andractim (and occasional Mesterolone IM) I am effectively plunging my body back to 2004, pre TRT, when I was literally lying dead in my bed, weighing 48kg. In 2004, I had a normal hormone profile (T was high, like 32 on a range 9 to 33, E2 was midrange). There were NO obvious abnormalities.
I have not deteriorated. I don’t understand this. I have got better. Instead of the dramatic decline, I have got better!! Huh? This is unprecedented.
I am waking with semblance of a morning erection. I had really good sex yesterday with my girlfriend where I pretty much forced myself on her. I just had a piano lesson and came out sweating. I have acne on the right hand side of my neck. My beard is scratchy and more full. My scalp is itchy. My pubic region is itchy. My scrotum is quite full and tight. My voice is perhaps on the deep side. I feel wonderfully calm and relaxed. I feel peaceful and I don’t know why. I feel happy.
I don’t know what is happening to me. I feel like a normal human being. My sexuality is not normal yet. Erections are not full, libido is down (versus pre fin).
I have not injected any T since last Tuesday (50mg)
I have not taken any meds for 4 days and I have got better! Not worse.
This is unprecedented and I’m trying to work out what is going on. There are 2 possibilities here:
- Blasting my system with high dose DHT has reactivated something (? 5 AR 2 enzyme, androgen receptors…)
- Vitamin D???
I can live like this. I can be happy. I am truly bewildered by what I am experiencing.
Prior to the use of DHT or Vit D, my girlfriend has experienced me on 150mg T per week. I simply couldn’t cope. I would wait for her to come home from work, and literally roll around on the tiled floor clenching my fists saying ‘I can’t cope, I can’t do this anymore’. She told me to put my T back up to 250mg per week, which I did, and I functioned better, etc…
Now I have 50mg T per week in my system, and I’m sitting here quite happy. The Andractim is out of my system.
Something has happened to me.
JN
Hey JN,
Firstly, i’m really glad to hear you are feeling better. This doesn’t surprise me at all mate. You have well and truly put your body through its paces over the years. Its entirely possible that the swings you have created in your hormones have kicked the body in some way. I see it like this, evolution has created a mechanism for passing on your genes. To me, this is our primary reason for existence. It is in the bodies best interests to try to get our sexual function up to scratch again.
Ive personally been noticing some recovery without doing anything. For once in my life i have balls, i can actually stand up for myself and tell people off. I also feel mentally normal, calm, good sense of humor etc are all fine. I do agree with Mew though that it is early days yet, but i think it would be a great idea for you to let your body coast for a while and see what it does. I really do doubt you will ever return to your bed ridden days.
Yes,
It’s early days after stopping DHT. The key question is; why have I not deteriorated?? Is this Vitamin D? It certainly could be. If so, it has dramatically altered my personality, all for the better. We really know absolutely nothing about DHT production etc… Certainly the thread ‘Is Vit D the cure’ highlights that Vit D has an androgenic effect (eg) crosslinking at DHT receptor.
I have noticed a reduction in my energy levels in the last few days; had to have a nap after dinner etc.
I feel reasonably content. That said, energy wise and sexually, I’m still reasonably dysfunctional.
You are right tho; I’m going to hold off DHT Heptanoate for a bit to assess this situation, and allow my kidney aches to go away (Vit D causes my kidneys to ache as well…there are a few reports on this on the internet).
The likelihood is that I’ll get onto the DHT Heptanoate (and will probably be on TRT/DHT for life), but I do want to take a few weeks to assess this very interesting state of unexpected contentness and give my body a break. I really am miffed tho. Could this be Vitamin D??
Cheers, take care.
JN
Wow, very interesting JN, i hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel for you. As you say it is early days yet but we will all be following your progress.
No you will not have to live on TRT/DHT for your life. That is my belief. you have done enough.
we have been telling you for a long time to stop ur TRT and see where u r. Give some time to your body. you r the lucky one who is not hypogonadal unlike most of us.
yes vit D might be behind your improvements. I feel like vit D has some androgenic properties I got the same effects like more hair and more energy but not full recovery as I am hypo.
instead of taking high dose of vit D and shooting arrows in the dark why not get complete blood test to see what r u short of and then adjust your Iron, Vit B12 and Vit D etc.
Another important point have you got food tolerance test? I read a story (sorry I don’t have the link maybe somebody can google) about 4 month ago where a guy was on T-patches and had gluten intolerence when he discovered his intolerance he did not need patches any more. Most of us have become some food intolerant. I myself have become now gluten intolerant.
The Paleo diet is your friend…
Striken/cdnuts,
Yes, thanks. I tend to jump to conclusions early as I am impatient, ridiculously so.
Unfortunately my energy levels really have dropped after stopping Andractim. Also sexual stuff has slightly worsened…to a reasonably intolerable extent as I’m less active and functional.
The good news is that I feel really calm. Seriously, my anxiety has totally gone. I feel calm and relaxed and happy!! I mean, I wake up and feel I could lie in bed in a relaxed haze all day.
The only change has been Vitamin D.
I can only say that I believe Vit D has totally relieved all symptoms of anxiety. I believe anxiety has been the symptom that has rendered my life unbearable since taking Fin, and now it has totally disappeared! It can only be Vitamin D. Striken, I believe it also has androgenic effects. I agree. There is some acne going on right side of my neck, scalp is a bit tingly, erections better quality…
Striken, I believe I will be on TRT/DHT for life however. My energy levels have really dropped in the last 5 days, and it is likely that this is DHT related.
I must say though, that the mood/anxiety/depression change in me is nothing short of dramatic. I can only put this down to Vit D.
cdnuts, my diet is exceptionally clean. Oats, bananas, fruit crushes, little dairy, loads of vegetables. Whilst it is not the pure ‘raw food’ diet, I cannot really reasonably eat more healthily. If I cannot get better with the excellent diet I am on now (and always have been, even pre Fin), then TRT/DHT is the only option.
Gosh, I wish I’d taken Vit D many years ago.
JN
While your diet may be reasonable clean, the Paleo diet is really making headlines around the world, and rightly so. Oats are a grain, and most grains were not meant to be processed by us (humans). I am willing to bet you would see a marked increase in vitality by following this diet for the period of one month. Fruit, veggies, meat, eggs and nuts/seeds. That’s it. What do you have to lose? I’m betting you would be a convert…most people are that come from “healthy” diets.
I agree 100% on the Vit D…
Hi JN
I am sure we all r mostly suffering from estrogenic effects caused by fin or SP. if you stop every thing and just suppress you estrogen (that is why I am asking to have blood test) not very much though, for a certain period of time you will see recovery. why I am saying this? Kemangd got well after using Arimidex only for many months.
ScaredinMD used inhibit E and got well
I also read two more stories where 22 and 23 old boys became hypo. one used tribulus and got his Estrogen very high. second boy used Androgel only for 3 weeks and is now in trouble. these boys did not use any 5AR inhibitor. I believe Androgel is behind my all problems. After stopping SP I was not that bad I really got worse afer using Androgel for 3 months and then stopping it after huge Estogen in my body.That is where I got my stomach ulcer and really very bad hypogonadal level.
our 5 ARs are fine. I just got email last night from Xhorndog and here is an abstract from his email
“My T, DHT are super high (latest levels = 848, 70 respectively) with a cocktail of meds that we keep adjusting. Still working on managing E. I feel far better than when I was depressed, exhausted and prone to itchy hives, etc. That aspect stabilzed within weeks of Clomid.”
how he was before look here. Note his DHT was extremely low.
10-26-09 test results:
Testosterone, Serum: 335ng/dL range: 241 - 827
DHT: 17ng/dL range: 30 - 85
LH, S: 3.9 mIU/mL range: 1.5 - 9.3
FSH, Serum: 3.0 mIU/ml range: 1.4 - 18.1
Estradiol: 30 pg/mL range: 0 - 53 <54
SHBG, Serum: 13 nmol/L Range: 13 - 71
TSH: 1.410 uIU/ml range: 0.450 - 4.500
Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum: 0.3 ng/mL range: 0.0 - 4.0
Prolactin: 5.2 ng/mL range: 2.1 - 17.7
12-14-09 test results (after 6 weeks of Clomid 50mg, 2x week)
Testosterone, Serum: 670 ng/dL range: 280 - 800
DHT: 28 ng/dL range: 30 - 85
LH: 7.9 mIU/ml range: 1.7 -8.6 (lab papers said to note the reference interval change)
FSH: 5.1 range: 1.5 -12.4 (lab papers said to note the reference interval change)
Estradiol (Roche ECLIA methodology): 39.5 pg/ml range: 7.6 - 42.6
SHBG, Serum: 21.4 nmol/L range: 14.5 - 48.4 (lab papers said to note the reference interval change)
when you have commited to use TRT for life why not give this route a try? just keep your protocol vit D3+Anit E for 6 months and stay patient. It is very tough but worth a try.
I have already place an order for inhibit E . My only concern is rebound effects from inhibiting E. Some reviews say you can get E rebound after stopping E inhibitors but hopefully I will manage by tapering the dose.
sps
Hi Jn
a quick question. how are your balls and dick after being on TRT for such a long time. do you think they are still the same volume and size or suffered some atrophy?
thanx
sps
Hey,
Well have deteriorated big time 4 to 5 days after stopping Andractim. Started crying hysterically in public and thinking about suicide. My girlfriend came to pick me up in a mess off the streets to take me home. Feel like shit, no energy, panicky, hysterical, Clearly Type II 5 AR permanently destroyed.
‘Get back on Andractim please’, my girlfriend says. She wants her boyfriend back. She’ll get a 50 to 60% boyfriend on Andractim, (or if I push my T back up). I reckon she’ll get a 100% boyfriend on DHT Heptanoate.
Laters, will log in next week and will answer questions next week.
Take care everyone.
JN
What’s the half life with andracitim? 3-4 days?
Your fine, just try to relax, we all have our moments…i’ve cried in a mall and broke down a few years ago…it happens.
Hi JN
u have been taking Adex+HCG and I assume ur Tstes are ok. so why not check your LH ans FSH and give a pct and you get back. who knows?
sps
Ditto. I still get “period” moments and misty eyed at times. Deep breath. Get a break, get some sun, it will be better!
Hey chaps,
Right, well feeling better. Not taking Andractim for 4 days was like entering a long dark tunnel of terror. Having re-applied it for the last 3 days, I feel much better. Clearly I need DHT supplementation for life, and it looks like my Type II enzyme is permanently destroyed.
Anyway, this is a good news post.
I can confirm that DHT Heptanoate has been made in a laboratory after a few weeks of waiting. They had to get 3 technicians on the job by the end, but I trust my source implicitally. He communicated well throughout and has attached a certificate of analysis. Purity is 99% in keeping with pharmaceutical grade product. Excellent.
To the best of my knowledge, this is not made anywhere in the world, and this source is precious.
He will send me the product by the end of this week, and I must say I think this may finally be the light at the end of my long dark tunnel of terror.
Best Wishes
JN
Yes atleast you know truely what the problem is…5 AR II DHT!!!
Anonnn1,
Well let’s hope it’s that simple. What is clear is that I require DHT replacement for life. There is a lot of talk here about androgen receptor desensitisation, but I think this talk is too early.
A good number of men need to have success with IM DHT replacement, which is possibly the only way to replace DHT effectively.
JN
Jn I am sure you are constantly monitoring your liver enzymes.