but you are taking many things to lower your estrogen. BUt the biggest question is why our body is producting more Estrogen then free T?
That is a good question. For me when I took finasteride. I lost my libido in 2 weeks while on the drug and it never came back. So the idea that it was a sudden jump in androgens that caused some kind of downrguation of the gene expression does not fit my experience so well. It was more like I had no sexual sides for 2 weeks and then BAMB loss of libido, dick felt disconnected. So I am assuming that was caused not so much by the DHT suppresion but probably a very large increase in estrogen. My test could have been building up and up and putting so much pressure on the aromataze enzyme. Then this has been upgrgulated ever since.
If the receptor was still working ok but the signal was just scilenced wouldnt DHT metabolism still be fine? 3-adiol-g? Where as if there were less androgen receptors then the TEST would just be floating around and would be converted to estrogen because it has less places to bind to. But where is the aromataze enzyme? Is it in the cell? Does the testosterone have to bind to an androgen receptor to be converted to estrogen?
I am not a scientist.
But enden states that when his estrogen is in balance DHT hormones have a very strong effect. When his estrogen is not in balance the DHT does not work. Looking at this article that makes sense.
OK Here is a simple test that will cost you less than 20 bucks. Purchase some estrogen cream from iherb. Apply it and see what happens. If eveything gets worse then we can draw some conclusions. Make sure you are at a steady state before you do this. In my experience taking things that increase E2 like PREG eveything gets worse. Eveything gets better when taking things that lower e2. But the later does not seem to last.
I am sure everybody will feel worse. Our liver is throwing Binding globins for Cortisole, thyroid hormones, testosterone not letting free hormones run in our blood. There are many guys here who have normal hormones but very low out of range, free hormones especially the testosterone. Any body knows why does liver do this?
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Vincentv, I like your reply. It made me think I wonder if we supplemented with estrogen what would happen? Would we shut down or bodies own natural way of producing estrogen. It seems that taking estrogen blockers does not work maybe we need to take estrogen for our bodies to stop makingso much of it. Has anyone ever taking estrogen?
I can not see how supplimenting with estrogens will help us. I would say it would make everything worse. But if you can make every symptom worse then you can at least narrow down what the root cause is.
musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?19706-My-latest-results/page2
I got my latest lab results this week and they are really interesting (to me). For the month prior to this blood draw, I stopped taking 50mg per day of DHEA and went on Pregnyl subq 100IU daily for 14 days then 300IU EoD for the remainder of the month. Here are the key changes, with the results from 1 month earlier in red:
TSH 2.66ĀµU/mL (0.3 - 4.5) 3.51
E2 50pg/mL (<30) 15
TT 5159pg/mL (1500 - 8000) 4564
Free T 184pg/mL (50 - 280) 171
Bound T 96.4% 96.2%
SHBG 35pmol/mL (20 - 55) 29
Androstanediol-gluc 10.79ng/mL (3.4 - 22) 20.67
DHEA-S 154Āµg/dL (8 - 135) 277
Androstenedione 3ng/mL (0.5 - 3.0) 6.00
PSA 1.65ng/mL
Isnt this important? This guy halved his ADIOL G while increasing his FREE T. Could we say that adiolG is not just correalted to FREE Test maybe corelated to the ratio of Free Test to Free Estrogen?
Can anyone articulate permanent negative side effects to taking an anti-estrogen? I havenāt tried it but am working up the nerve, but just wanted to double-check b/c someone a few comments ago mentioned further permanent deterioration. Iām just so worried about worsening my situation permanently, since I seem to have mild suffering, as compared to many of you. (no real mental sides- just sexual by way of libido and some function, but I can still get an erection and have orgasms, etc).
From what I have seen and know. There are no reported effects of long term problems from taking anti estrogen. spstricken mentioned one guy called cheman on that meso site or anabolic mind who took some things and then had some problem. But from what I have seen even when people drop their E to very low levels they do not get any permanent problems. Perhaps if you drop it too low for too long this could cause damage. But from what I can see there does not seems to be risk of permanent problems.
I do not think anyone has reported such a thing here.
When I first recovered from arimidex i was only taking .1mg evey 2nd day. I am not 100 percent sure if my liquid was accurately dosed. Just this amount sent my libido up like crazy. But the effects seem to wear off. I think if you take too much your FREE T could go up too much then convert to even more E2. So anti estrogens can increase E2.
There is an over the counter one PES Erase you could try it is very weak they say take up to 3 caps a day. You could start on 1 evey 2 days for a week and work up to max 3 per day if needed. Most poeople report with this one that if their E2 goes too low they miss a dose and they are back to normal in a day.
I would say it is a low risk - high reward test as so many people have reported improvements. If you can do some blood tests or even siliva test. A siliva test will test Free E and Free T which are the important things to know.
I think loweing E makes much more sense than increasing T because our LH is low. I personally thing this is because of high unbound amounts of a particular hormone like E1.2.3. And as you can see it looks as if E can lower adiol G. Which makes perfect sense due to Eās antiandrogenic actions.
Would be great if you can get before and during tests. If you already have baseline no need for before.
ScaredToDeath is the only one who has done this. He reported his libido going though the ROOF but when he lost his libido his FREE E2 had gone up. Would be good to have another blood test to see if this is a common pattern with us.
I donāt know how much arimidex is safer but a google search brought tons of negative stories. I am surprised these are almost close to what we feel.
topix.com/forum/drug/arimidex/T9KIBBBGKPNAKQ1BQ
aching joints depression vaginal dryness headaches low libido after one year on this drugā¦
Tiredness, blurred vision, lack of concentration, depression, no sex drive - arimidex for you!
Iāve been on Arimidex for almost 18 months and Iāve had enough. Horrible aching in my joints and muscles. Lack of energy. Night sweats. No libido. Took myself off it last week. Simply not worth it.
After two years my oncologist switched me to arimidex after my mother was diagnosed with uterine cancer. Since then, which has been about a year, I have been in intense joint, muscle, and bone pain from my neck down to my toes. Sometimes I feel like I have been hit by a truck and have to lay down. I have no energy and sometimes feel like I am crazy because of the pain
and
dr. changed it to arimidex. I have severe joint pain from fingers to toes, The body stiffness is the worst. I move like I would expect to in about 30 years from now.
also please read Management of arthralgias associated with aromatase inhibitor therapy
on
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2140182/
Maybe these aromatase inhibitors are 5 alpha reductase inhibitors too, abiet at lower scale, who knows
All of the sides you mention are from too low estrogen. They are taking it for cancer they are reducing their healthy levels of estrogen dramatically we are trying to just reduce it a little to balance free T with Free E. Dropping your estrogen too low for months at a time will cause problems. I feel sorry for those cancer patients.
it is interesting.Fin is also anti cancer and when used the same argument was used that at low doses will not cause any sides and is safer. Did you feel any negative sides. I have mentioned there are some guys at messo.com talking about negative sides of arimidex and regretting using it.
Thanks Vincentv- Iām going to maybe start with PES Erase and go from there. Iāll definitely report back once Iām on. I do have a baseline for E2 (29 pg/ml with range: 10-50 pg/ml) and I also have an LH baseline (3.1 mIU/ml with < 10 mIU/ml normal range). My total testosterone is in the high range (827 ng/dl with range of 270-1070 ng/dl) but I donāt have much else by way of baseline. I also am not severely symptomatic (just libido issues primarily) which I sometimes think relates to my total testosterone naturally being in the higher range maybe? Hard to say. Anyway, will keep you posted.
One big issue is that FREE e2 is never looked at this is just as important or more important than total E2.
Only way to test this is with a siliva test.
Report back as soon as you get stared. Good luck.
for 7 days I used 10mg of tamoxifen and increased my testicles(I felt a reduction in anxiety). Yesterday I used 0.25mg of arimidex and now my erection is now much stronger. vascularization of the penis increases gradually. Even after ejaculation the penis takes about 20 minutes to empty and return to soft.
This is a good sign that the body can function properly.
The big problem is to administer the correct dose of arimidex. It seems that there is a rebound effect and estradiol may return at full strength after a while.
maybe with Aromasin may take longer to increase estradiol.
quite frankly Iām afraid to use these anti aromatase drugs and worsen the situation. For me this is the only medicine that works. Iāll try again for the experience.
seems to me that Arimidex works when my testicles are larger and producing more testosterone.
I think TRT + arimidex could be a good solution. Maintaining constant the amount of testosterone and trim estradiol excess.
The problem is I can not convince the doctor to prescribe TRT:
I have been on TRT for many months this year. It increases T but even on small doses my siliva E was over range when my free T was just in range. So FREE T / FREE E were out of balance. I felt great at first. But always by a week in. Shit would get bad. Total loss of appetite. Feeling of bbloated full stomach. I am of T. I think right now my body is doing its best to produce hormones but my LH is low and free T is low because of too much FREE E2.
I will do a free E2 siliva test when on nothing to see what it says.
On another note. Having been off TRT for a month. This week things have been quite up and down. And I noticed this. I purchased a factory produced chicken, usually eat free range. The first day i was feel not too bad up untill diner when I ate the chicken. After that got some stomach pains and felt bad. I woke up in the middle of the night and felt like i was seriously dying. From the time I ate that chicken I got a super bloated stomach feeling basically like the food is just sitting there. This seems to be a High e2 sign for me. My digestion went bad. Like I had to wake up to take a dump at 5am. This is also a sign of my condition having to run to the toilet in the moorning. Anyway after about 24 hours got better. And then had some times were I felt really pretty good apart from libido.
I did not think much of it. Did not suspect the chicken caused this. Thought it was just a fluxuation. Today I go and eat the same chicken at lunch time. Before lunch I was doing ok. Then the rest of the day I totally lost my appetite got servere brainfog. I read this guy who posted on here named ānoā he discribes cripiling brainfog. Well I had that. And when my appetite disapears eveything else gets worse. I get depression, feel sad like im going to cry when I think of this whole situation and think about methods to kill myself. Maybe this was just a coincidence. But really these are all my high E2 symptoms.
I also get these on pregnenolone. I took it to try boost my low free cortisol. But found my blood cortisol was already very good. So I think it had nowhere to go apart from estrogen. It made me again think seriously of suicide and very bad thoughts and wanting to cry.
Compare this to all the times I have felt better by reducing my estrogens. I have total opposite effect. Hunger, very positive thinking. Energy etc.
So from what I can say. Estrogen makes me feel shit. All my symptoms get worse. Reducing estrogen makes all shit better but does not last.
So - The test would be for us to simply take some estrogen cream and see what happens. If all our symptoms get worse much like mine DO. We have some very important info on our condition.
Now there are some transgenders who take estrogen. And I saw one video on youtube where he says taking some kind of estrogen had no effect at all on him. Which is strange. My other friend who was on propecia swelled up with a big wrikely face but did not have any real other problems. So maybe we are more sensitive to estrogen.
Point is - Buy some natrual estrogen cream from iherb. Trial it out for a few days and see what happens. This could give use some real insights. I have some but have not used it yet. Need to wait till I am at a stable level and then see what happens.
I have stopped eating chicken I hd the same feelings and always doubted about it. It is sad but chicken are given Estrogen, I learned after having bad sides.
And did you have issues eating factory chicken before finasterideā¦ Or SP whatever you took.