I am quite sure hcg desensitized my testicles, before hcg testosterone was high, 4 months after taking hcg it was normal and 7 months after it was very low. I know testosterone is not the problem itself, actually finasteride didn’t touch my testosterone at all, it was high after finasteride, but my experience says that having extremely high testosterone helps me, and it is not a cure of course, it is a sort of doping, but i would accept to be on doping for the rest of my life if the effect doesn’t faint.
Well, can be can be not. see it like that: HCG raises T -> T raises DHT and E both regulate LH and FSH, that again regulates T. So raising T will downregulate LH. A normalisation of the HPTA takes up to 19 weeks. Another inmportant faktor, is that we dont have stable levels in the blood. GnRH is sendet in pulses…stable higher levels by TRT or other exogen stuff, will distrub that. So dont worry. Rezeptors come and go and a desensitation can only happen when you take very hig dosages.
did you have some side effects on aromasin?
I’m thinking of taking a few days. Can it be dangerous because it is an irreversible inhibitor of the enzyme aromatase?
I just started on aromasin 4 days ago. 10mg a day. I had quit testosterone a week before that. I was on it for about 4 months. So I felt like total crap the week before I took aromasin. I was unable to eat anything, depression, no energy, slept a lot. Now 4 days into aromasin I am a lot better. Appetite is much much better, energy good. Much more night and morning wood. Mood better.
No side effects so far I think. But it is early days. Will have to wait a month to tell you what I really think as with other things they tend to loose their effectiveness after a while.
So you are still not on Test injection or you have been off of Test injection for 12 days?
Yes no test injections now for about a week or more. Only aromasin.
Finasteride is an irreversible inhibitor of 5 alpha reductase II (at least while you take) and it caused us major problems.
Considering that and the fact that Arimidex is not as potent as Aromasin, you might consider Arimidex instead if you are planning to use pharmaceuticals to control estrogen.
I took 5mg of aromasin 3 days ago. I´m using 12mg clomid.
felt some pain in the knees. i cannot image the damages of taking more than this. Robocopp was taking 25 mg / day?
I put in the water and took 1/5. the pills are so tiny.
The good efects
felt some antidepressant effect and my hair started to feel. this is a good sign. Every time that my hair start to fall, i feel good.
I don´t know how many days my aromatase will start to produce again to take another pill. I know it’s dangerous, but I think the only way to stimulate 5arII is by blocking the enzyme aromatase. This is why old women post-menopause have hair loss.
Yes,
I suggest you forget the chlomid. Clomid by itself has so many effects, it acts like an estrogen in some tissues and like an anti estrogen in others. I really do suggest you do not take that. And try stick to just the low dose of aromasin and if you can do a blood test of T / SHBG / E after a couple of weeks to see what has changed.
There seems to be an effect where the anti estrogen will cause T to rise and this will then create more estrogen than you started with.
Roboppp said he has no joint pain at all. I specifically asked him that.
Naturally, if we cannot properly “absorb” androgens but the androgens are clearly present then they would converting to estrogen so taking an aromotase inhibitor to reduce the conversion as much as possible should be beneficial to level out from “LOW ANGROGEN vs HIGH ESTROGEN” to “LOW ANDROGEN vs LOW ESTROGEN”
Myself, I supplement testosterone to keep my sanity and I take 12 - 25mg of Aromasin every day or 2. I can tell when my estrogen gets high at this point and the aromasin is mandatory for my emotional well being.
Tried the SERMS and it was a semi-effective substitute for the Anti-Aromatase products.
Can you tell us what your high estrogen symptoms are?
For me I think they are:
Twitches
Depression
Huge loss of appetite
Thoughts of suicide
As for low estrogens
I once took too much arimidex and had really bad thoughts of suicide after a few hours.
The good effects that I have sometimes got with anti estrogens
- Feeling of well being
- Appetite increase
- Better digestion
- Better woods
- Some libido
But the good effects seem very hard to keep.
I feel that I can not take another dose of Aromasin. I’m still in pain in the knees and base of the column.
I think it would work fine if I were using testosterone. My doctor will not prescribe TRT. My testosterone is normal.
I wonder why I have these pains with only one tablet of aromatase inhibitor.
The half life of the drug is 24hr. After 4 days I still have some amount in the body. It seems that my body does not excrete so easy.
Joint pain is a common side effect of anti estrogen.
High estrogen side effects include (for me)
nipple swelling
leg swelling
emotional instability (i get welled up easily or feel bad for people or things too easily) “ooh that poor puuuppy!”
numbness/coldness in penis / lack of connection to brain
decreased feeling of masculinity ( i could have a chick over i would just want to cuddle)
introverted demeanor
loss of libido
Vincent - your digestion needs to be managed separately. actually let me rephrase that . I manage my digestion separately. Ortho products I found are best and i take their digestive enzymes and their probiotics. also to manage fat absorption I take Bile Acids and take AquaDEKs vitamins which are fat soluble vitamins converted to water soluble for people with Cystic fibrosis.
this is very interesting! a have a lot of digestion problems including diarrhea loose stools. Seems lack of bile acids.
after 10 days of Aromasin tablet (5mg) still feel the antidepressant effect. I am much better and my baldness is still moderate. I’m there 10 days without any other remedy. deepened my sleep a little more. If these effects disappear, I’ll take another dose of 1mg of Aromasin. 5mg is too much for me.
My guess is that my very low free cortisol is causing digestion issues a long with darkness under the eyes and anxiety. There are studies saying that it will do this. Low free cortisol will reduce stomach acid secretion. The question is, why is my free cortisol low? Estrogen is suppose to increase transcortin. But I am not sure if this is the root cause. I skipped the aromasin dose today and my digestion was much worse than yesterday.
Hopefully reducing estrogen a little and increasing test a little should reduce my transcortin levels and increase free corisol.
Mines the opposite. Massive appetite increase and hardly ever go to the loo. Its like planting a tree.
I have been experementing with aromasin since I came of test. At first on 10mg a day it helped me when my test was below range, I started feeling hungry again and even some aggression. But then I lost the effect and lost my appetite. Since then I have been expermenting with it. When I skip a dose I seem to have very little nocternal wood and my digestion is much worse. So far this seems to be a consistent pattern. I will keep experimenting.
My joint pain was fixed on anti estrogens.
Mens rea could you please post your blood tests while on arimidex.
Thanks
Abstract
Estrogens and androgens are well known to exert opposing effects in several tissues. In this study, we explored the possibility that there might be a direct antiandrogenic effect of estradiol on human breast cancer cells (MCF-7). Since the biological activity of androgens is mediated by specific androgen receptors, and because the abundance of androgen receptors in target tissues is thought to be rate limiting for androgen action, we examined whether estradiol regulates the quantity of androgen receptors in MCF-7 cells. Cells treated with 2.6 nM estradiol exhibited markedly lower levels of cytoplasmic androgen receptors, measured by [3H]5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone ([3H]DHT) binding, compared to levels in cells receiving ethanol vehicle alone. The effect was time dependent, and 6-day treatment of cells with estradiol resulted in an 80% reduction in [3H]DHT binding. Occupancy of androgen receptors by estradiol did not account for this difference. Cytosol competition studies demonstrated that the androgen receptor in MCF-7 cells possesses an approximately 125-fold lower affinity for estradiol than for DHT. In addition, tamoxifen, a nonsteroidal estrogen antagonist, blocked the estradiol effects on [3H]DHT binding. These latter studies support the hypothesis that this estradiol action is mediated by the estrogen receptor. Equilibrium binding studies indicated that the observed decrease in [3H]DHT binding after estradiol treatment was due to an absolute decrease in the number of cytoplasmic androgen receptors per cell. The estradiol-mediated reduction in androgen receptor content was dose dependent; a 50% reduction in androgen receptor number was observed after 6 days of treatment with 2.6 X 10(-11) M estradiol. Additional experiments revealed that MCF-7 cells exhibited a time-dependent increase in androgen receptor content when estradiol was withdrawn; continued estradiol treatment prevented this rise in receptor content. Moreover, androgen receptor levels began to decrease from the point when the ethanol vehicle added to the medium was replaced with 2.6 nM estradiol. In summary, estradiol treatment caused a reduction in androgen receptors, and estradiol withdrawal lead to a rise in androgen receptors. We believe that these results provide a mechanism whereby estradiol may directly antagonize androgen action. Conversely, estradiol withdrawal may potentiate androgen action by allowing androgen receptor levels to rise. This hypothesis may help explain the basis of the estrogen/androgen ratio as a predictor of sex steroid response.
So, last time I was on TEST at low dose. My free test was mid in range but silivary estroogen was over range… This was tested after I started feeling worse. So an inbalance in free test / DHT / Estrogen means a reduction in androgen receptors… hmmm that explains our situation pretty well.
I wonder why my dick felt alive and on fire when I first took arimidex.