I have Fuckin dark circles too
This shit really did a number on us
I’ve been extra bitter and self pitying the last couple weeks
I feel like a good surge of DHT would help but of course! There’s the risk of getting worse 
Mother Fuckin Bullshit
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How much of a testosterone base should we run on this? And what happened when you dropped the Proviron?
Thought I’d chime in to give my two cents. Proviron in 25-50mg doses plue exogenous T worked wonders for me in the past. I did Sustanon, which consists of 4 easters including the fast acting Propionate easter. It was 250mg a week for 16 weeks total. Those were the best days of my frigging life. That said, I crashed hard after finishing the cycle. Proviron was causing more harm than good after then since E2 was too damn low so blocking it further was a bad idea. Hope it works for Proviron folks despite the slim odds.
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Thanks for your feedback, Doomed80. This is what I’m afraid of. I can definitely see how that would happen with coming off test and cont. the Proviron. I’m somewhat surprised that only 25-50mg of Proviron lowered your E2 that much though. I know the Sustanon doesn’t aromatize as badly as some of the others, but were you also taking an AI during and after the cycle?
During my Proviron cycle, I want to keep my test levels in the normal range as long as I can tolerate it. But if I start to crash from low E2, maybe I could try some DHEA to increase it?
I’m not much familiar with TRT and other hormone therapies.
do you believe a significant amount of PFS sufferers can benefit from appropriately rebalancing their hormone levels.
I also don’t understand why it’s a challenge to keep things in balance. It seems like there’s a substance to regulate every hormone out there, so why would it something like low E2 be a problem? Isn’t there something you can take to elevate E2 levels align with DHT?
Apologies if the questions are too simplistic. Im a complete newb when it comes to this topic
Mind you, I was also on low dose AI (IIRC 0.25mg arimidex) during cycle for a mild gyno and did PCT with anastrozole (SERM) and that too blocks E2 receptors.
In the period 2011-2013, I did Proviron solo with good results in terms of libido but E2 was higher to begin with. It is said that Proviron has high affinity to SHBG and lowers E2, which frees up T and drive up DHT. Hope it works for you.
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I’ve noticed two kind of Men on the forum:
A. Men who respond to T therapy
B. Men who don’t respond to T therapy
I belong to group A and weekly T shots made day and night difference. I’m now with IBS and immune system issues at hand so I don’t know if I’ll respond in the same manner. If your bloodwork does show low T (<400), then T treatment may be a viable option. It’s worth noting that there’s a certain T level needed for every man to function. I seem to respond to higher T. For group B, it may be a different ball game altogether (eg epigenetic, immune system disorders, inflammation etc.).
Speaking of hormone imbalances, it’s a tricky son of a gun. This is over simplistic, but both DHT & E2 are metabolites of T, so only way to change either of them is by changing T itself or block the conversion enzymes. In some instances, SHBG manipulation can do the trick (e.g Proviron). T conversion doesn’t necesaarily occur in a balanced way since it’s influenced by several factors including genetics, body fat, stress, diet, etc.
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Thank you for the 101.
My T was about 450, but my doctor didn’t test for DHT even though I specifically asked for it.
It’s interesting you have IBS and inflammation issues. I’m also diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis and have had high inflammation markers (Eos, Neutrophils, C-Reactive Protein, Stool Calprotectin) for a long while. I also recently discovered I have low pancreatic enzyme activity.
What are your diagnosis?
Is there anyone here who DOESN’T have IBS and inflammation issues?
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I only respond modestly to TRT, and I’ve tried a wide variety of T/E levels. I actually aromatize in perfect proportion to my T levels (Interestingly, my E stays in middle of range and only gets above that when my FT gets over top of range). My SHBG usually stays a little above mid-range, but SERMS like Clomid drive it way up to the top. And TRT brings it back down to a very good, lowish level in a dose-dependent manner. DHT is normal to high, and hair is in abundance in just about everywhere except my damn head (that loss continued beautifully). Beard growth is the exception - that has slowed down significantly.
I don’t know what my problem is, but my two biggest problems are low libido and muscle mass. I also have chronic fatigue, digestive issues (slow, bloating, cramping, etc.), low body temp, skin changes, there’s probably like 50-60 annoying symptoms. TRT helps me to look not quite as sickly, but at the expense of fertility, so I’ve been kind of cycling on and off for last several years.
Before PFS, I was a natty bodybuilder with lots of muscle, libido, ate like a horse, etc. I’m really hoping the Proviron helps trigger a beneficial change.
This is all mind boggling. I’m still unsure whether IBS and Inflammation are cause or consequence (chicken or egg again). That said, I for one have been on several antibiotics in the past (VIZ: flagyl, doxycycline, Z-Pak etc) for unrelated issues and this could have wreaked havoc on microbiome (AKA dysbiosis). Microbiome makeup and immune system/inflammation are closely related. Libido aside, do you experience mental issues as well? eg anxiety and depression.
This has been my focus area because believe it or not I get my old self back when IBS/inflammation go into remission. I’m in the midst of trial and fail but generally it’s been an upward trend.
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I suffer from anxiety and insomnia.
I’m similar. All my symptoms seem to happen in tandem. When I have GI issues, I’m also more likely to be sleep-deprived and have sexual symptoms.
I believe this is all interconnected. I’m not sure if our autoimmune is out of whack and attacking multiple bodily systems, or body cannot properly process hormones and proteins, which causes immune system to misbehave.
You could be belonging to Group B. Working on your IBS and inflammation may very much be your way out. Were your on antibiotics? Suffered food poisoning? What triggered your IBS and when? You say you’re slow so that’s likely IBS-C I suppose. Body temperature is an important marker. My hands and feet were chronically cold and I initially assumed it’s thyroid issue but bloodwork always came fine. It turned out it’s mostly adrenals/gut issue with me.
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See screenshot I just posted.
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I’m not sure what you mean by slow.
I don’t think I’m in any specific IBS category. I’m in the IBD category as I’ve been diagnosed with ulcerative colitis after a colonoscopy.
However, unless I’m in a flare-up, I don’t feel like I exhibit the symptoms of traditional UC. I’m not suffering from excessive diarrhea or blood in stool unless I’m in a full-on UC flare up.
What triggered my UC, I believe was drinking alcohol.
I do suffer from cold limbs, especially feet. However, this has improved a lot since. There were times where I was shivering. I’m also diagnosed with Iron deficiency & mild anemia, most likely due to the colitis.
I like to believe tackling my inflammation is the way as well. However, I am discouraged by the treatments provided by the doctors. I feel like they want to put me on traditional UC treatments without having a full understanding of what’s happening in my body, at immunological, neurological, urological level.
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Sorry for derailing the main topic. I was looking for a study on how intestinal inflammation might affect libido and bumped into article linking increased inflammatory cytokines (e.g TNF-alpha) to reduced T levels. Another in-vitro study also linked bacterial endotoxins (a toxin present inside a bacterial cell that is released when it disintegrates) to reduced T & E2. I wonder if FMT from a super donor may be the ultimate solution to restore intestinal health including UC. Right now it’s mainly done for C. Difficile.
Meanwhile, I’d like to know how Proviron is panning out for members in this thread.
@inbrugge
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I appreciate your thoroughness. Same here with thyroid - all good. Adrenals are supposedly good too, but like everything in medicine there’s a separate school of though on that too which I’ve explored and used all the herbal therapies to no avail. The gut is definitely a component, but I’m not sure how far “up” the change of causation it is. I’ve tried all sorts of probiotics, digestive enzymes, etc. Some helped but only marginally. No known exposure to toxins or poisons. I’m an organic, get those chemicals out of my house kind of guy. Nothing brought own by Antibiotics either, that I can remember (it’s been like 11 years now).
The most significant help actually came from Wellbutrin. I didn’t seek it out for depression (PFS did give me severe anhedonia), and it doesn’t really help me for that. But it did improve the debilitating fatigue, and even my digestion - more so than any of the natural remedies. However, it’s a bandaid and I’d like to be able to drop it someday.
Body temperature and cold intolerance remains VERY low. My basal temp averages about 96.5. Hands, feet, nose, ears, and even genitals get ridiculously cold, esp. in the wintertime. I even tried to find something special to wear on my junk. And I could be in a meeting (pre-Covid) in room temp for an hour, shake someone’s hand and they recoil in shock over how cold it is. Even demonstrated this on my doctor and got no more than a shoulder shrug. Ughh.
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Day 16- still taking proviron felt terrible today even before taking the pills, the most fatigued I’ve felt since pfs started. I had to have a nap after work. Have had very soft stools the last 4/5 days, ibs like. Concentration/Short term memory is poor as well but tends to get a bit better as the day goes on. I feel okay now. Tinnitus has also been worse than usual. Thank god for home working, I would of struggled at work in this condition. As was stated previously this is to be expected on such a high dose of proviron, I’ll keep on trucking.
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I salute you sir, keep up the good work!
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You have 200mg/day ?
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Cheers Poker and yedek, yeah im 200mg a day.
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