Has ANYONE here actually made improvements by increasing their low testosterone levels?

Therapeutic Efforts
#1

In my 16 years of PFS, I have been on dozens of different types and combinations of TRT.

I’ve had my testosterone levels at every potential level possible. But, I have surprisingly always felt “best” (still not “Great”), when my testosterone levels are BELOW the range. We are talking like levels of some females.

My most recent workup showed I was below range again, and I know my urologist will want to explore TRT again. A this point, I feel like its a waste of time and money.

But I am curious if any of you actually feel somewhat better going on TRT, even if not perfect.

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#3

I’ve been trying test since about last March. Different forms and doses. Added hcg in the mix about 6 weeks ago. Rather than giving you a whole story… I’ll just tell you a few changes that happened…

Morning erections everyday. Only when I got on trt and stopped only when I attempted a much low dose or to ween off as I had recently in attempt to just go on hcg which I believe is not the way for me personally.

My scalp has literally had bumps and periods of intense itchiness for over a decade. I switched shampoo months ago and that seemed to helped a wee bit. But, after being on trt for a while, the bumps and itch are 99% gone. I might be able to find one bump if I look hard enough. Zero itch. If it’s just a coincidence, who knows but also my eyebrows felt like wire the same past decade and now they are soft and lay flat.

In this forum or other forums, you’ll find lots of guys who felt worse on trt for one reason or another. But, I can’t see myself going off it and I wanted to, hoping I could go to hcg and then nothing. I’m in for the long haul. The positives outweigh the negatives in how I feel, but, I’ll wait a few more months when I get more labs to write those details.

#4

Have you noticed much in terms of how your muscles/strength feel and look?

#5

My calfs look normal. They looked like women’s before. Skinny all the way up… and barely any hair. Now I actually have normal hair growth on the top 4/5ths … bottom still minimal. Legs and facial hair are the only other areas I’ve noticed increase hair growth.

I would say my arms and chest look thicker, not really muscular… but, my shoulder joints feel great… I had 2 x-rays over the past 5yrs show tendinothopy both times. I don’t feel anything. I had periods where I did have increased soreness and felt like swelling in my feet, as I was adjusting my dose… so I seemed to have gotten past that.

I’m still a work in progress, but, just to throw out some of the negatives… my orgasm seems to still be declining more and more. Hcg hasn’t really done much to change that, as of yet, anyways. I had bouts of increased anxiety and a feeling of pressure or something in my chest, neck at times… went away when I lowered my dose from the 120mg/wk high. Penis, balls, sensitivity worse with test. Maybe 15% improvement since hcg. Hope it continues. Unfortunately, I think even improvement there won’t help my orgasm.

I’ve had T and E2 in all sorts of ranges from bottom 1/3rd to 50% above range high… the best I felt was in the “honeymoon” period as they call it, when both values were in the top 1/3rd. More is better, to a point. And the point is probably a pretty tight range.

I’m still tinkering and I’m seeing a doctor who i think is top notch… sucks it’s for life but I think for me, it’s a better life. I know some get worse.

#6

My experience is that it’s a complete waste of time. I’ve had my testosterone levels jacked up to extreme levels and I’ve only felt WORSE

#7

I have had the exact same experience.

My T has been all different levels from about 275 to 950ng/dl. The methods I have tried (prescribed by doctors in Europe) include oral, Sustanon, and Nebido. When I first tried Sustanon I felt like I did improve a small amount for about a week. I couple times I felt the same way after Nebido injections. It may have all been placebo effect. Excitement and hope can improve libido even without any underlining physiological effects. The benefits never lasted more than a few days. In summary, I took TRT for several years and only felt like I might possibly be deriving any benefit at all for probably about 15 days out of roughly 1000.

Therefore, doing TRT was a big net loss for me. I expended a large amount of money, time and effort and risked my own long term ability to produce T in the future for very transitory benefits if any at all.

Similarly, I have also tried hCG both together with and separate from TRT, as well as Clomid and all other TTHCWP. This is why I am convinced that PFS is real. I clearly do not have hypogonadism or any other known medical condition with similar symptoms.

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#8

Same. There seemed to be no correlation between levels of any hormone and symptoms. If anything, I felt better and had better sexual function with T in the low 500s than in the 600s and 700s.

At one time believed I had an improvement during the first few weeks of one TRT attempt, but have experienced much better windows of improvement randomly when not taking any sort of drug or supplement.

Only one brief 1-day “near-recovery” a week or two after clomid and I sometimes wonder if declining T levels may have been a factor in that. I was never able to duplicate it though.

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#9

This. Exactly same thing happened to me when coming off Letrozol. One day genital sensitivity and sexual urge returned to ”near” normal. And this same thing have happen to many others also when coming of some substance that increases testosterone.

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#10

Interesting. I’ve never noticed that trend. Only that high doses of TRT seem to work for a short time for some, then the effects usually wear-off.

#11

And to clear that a little bit more, I dont remember any case where this have happened when coming off TRT. But this has happen in many others who have came off SERM or AI.

#12

Just to share my 2 cents. I felt awesome on Testosterone shots long time ago. I was doing Sustanon 250 (4 Testosterone easters) + 0.25mg Arimidex E3D + topical cortisone + 25mg Proviron. I did this for 16 weeks and those were the best times of my life! I think Cortisone was critical in my case to balance testosterone and thyroid.

#13

JQD wrote on his topic about adrenal fatigue and testosterone.
Here -> POST FINASTERIDE SYNDROME AND ADRENAL FATIGUE
He claimed that testosterone wont work without cortisol. That cortisol is the pool for other hormones and its needed for example testosterone to work. Im on HydroCortisone at the moment (have been for about 4 months allready) and I have also Testavan testogel prescription on my desk so I could test this theory. Have someone else been on Hydrocortisone or Cortisone at the same time when on TRT??

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#14

I did that whole cortisol response test where they give you a pill and monitor your response to it and all of my cortisol functioning is supposedly fine.

#15

I talked to JQD quit regularly, used to a lot more than I do these days. I do not personally believe he ever had PFS. I believe he just had a messed up HPTA. Not only that, but his theories and cures change every other month.

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#16

Excellent observation @Finfina . I’ve noticed similar pattern with HGH. I experimented with low dose (1 IU/D) with and without cortisone in the past.

HGH + Cortisone: improved sense of well-being + increased libido + leaning effect.

HGH solo: Literally felt like I was on nothing & increased fatigue! My TSH went up from 1.2 to 2.2 and experienced symptoms of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). I was surprised as to why HGH didn’t produce the same results I had the first time around. Found out later that Cortisone is necessary in my case. So, my simple anecdote (n=1) made me believe I’ve potential adrenal insufficiency syndrome.

#17

I should also add that I have tried T3+T4, HGH, CJCs and GHRPs, MK-677, and all the other broscience panaceas that supposedly make any weeny an alpha beast. None did anything. That’s not to say that they couldn’t for someone who doesn’t actually have PFS, however.

I believe one of the problems this forum faces is that the vast majority of people start popping pills and herbs before even doing the most basic blood tests (let alone a comprehensive set of them), feel optimistic that they are about to become pornstars, get a placebo effect/mood lift, and then sometimes start telling everyone they’ve found the cure. All this false hope has yielded a 15 year tail-chase.

People filling out the survey reporting themselves as having PFS before they have done any blood tests is also a serious problem. The majority of the respondents might even have simply had something else, like hypothyroidism or hypogonadism. The data may all be corrupted for no good reason. We may not have anything to show for the last 15 years at all. My point isn’t to be depressing but to promote a more rigorous approach to classifying and discussing our conditions in order to facilitate the next 15 years being different from the last.

#18

Guys, could it be that these “near-recoveries” with SERM or AI had something to do with Cortisol? After cessation of SERM or AI, hormone levels start to decrease and for some reason Cortisol spikes momentarily and in the same timeframe T:E2 ratio is on the optimal level for some time and testo also responds with enough Cortisol on use. @doomed80 might have some idea why Cortisol would spike on that situation and why it spikes if it does?

I personally was on Letrozol for a month couple years ago and my free testo and total testo were on the high side of range all the time, and no effect on my body. But later I have made my 24h cortisol tests (saliva and urine) and find out that my bioavailable Cortisol is really low all the time. So I havent try this cortisol theory yet.

#19

You make some excellent observations @Finfina Myself and others have had similar pattern while being on AI. Libido would usually spike when starting AI and dampens later with continued use as E2 goes very low and T (and LH) goes out of range high. My guess is that as E2 declines (with AI), the body increases LH, which stimulate gonads to produce Testosterone so that it can be converted to E2 to restore its former level. During this process, the sweet spot for T:E2 is achieved and hence causes libido to surge. Some AIs (like aromasin) also happen to lower SHBG, which frees up more T, E2 & DHT.

Note: I’d never touch aromasin ever again because I think it may have permanently lowered my E2.

Cortisol remains to be such a challenging hormone to understand. For starters, it regulates blood sugar, governs thyroid, involved in energy production and acts as anti-inflammatory (again immune system) among other functions. I’d guess that without adequate energy then cellular processes are impaired. I’d read somewhere that when there isn’t enough cortisol, the body compensates with adrenaline (i.e. panic mode). Adrenaline is made by conversion of dopamine. I get high adrenaline when my blood sugar gets very low. When this happens during sleep, I get night sweats and night awakenings and thus unrefreshing sleep (i.e. low Testosterone & HGH produced). It’s a vicious cycle.

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#20

And one more thing popped on my mind. Many of us says they feel better when they have flue or similar. When getting a flue, that increase Cortisol to higher levels than baseline? And my suspection is that many of us have adrenal fatigue as default. This is just a suspection. Allthough our adrenals may be burned out and our baseline Cortisol is low, still flue or similar rises Cortisol in our body to some degree (despite the burned adrenals) and thats why we feel a little better when on flue?

One way to find out this theory, I have TRT prescription now. But Im still thinking do I want to risk my situation this point because overall I have had positive progress on this 4 moths time when replacing Cortisol with HC. Planning to continue at least 2 months, maybe up to 1 year. But now I could test this theory if I would add TRT. Gut motility is the biggest struggle at the moment (and has been for 2 years), if I could get some progress to that it would be nice.

#21

I’d suggest that you give it more time before jumping into trt, which is for life. Speaking of gut motility, I’ve noticed the following helps:

  • GOS prebiotic fiber. It’s commercially available as Bimuno
  • Chicory inulin (another glucans type fiber)
  • 90% dark chocolate
  • Black tea

I’ve been on them for a while and got like 3-4 BMs a day. It got to a point where it was annoying! Maybe give them a try and see how you do.

Btw, did you happen to experiment with licorice root? It’s touted to modulate cortisol metabolism leading to higher level. I’m toying with the idea to give it a go.

@Finfina