Hello mate, was your name PAS on that forum as well? Do you know what dose of mifepristone you used and for how long? May also be worth trying it in combination with something else such as estradiol.
Iāve often wondered why people here donāt discuss the near identical ness of āDeca dickā symptoms to the symptoms of PAS, PFS, and PSSD. Guys with Deca dick want to end their lives because of anhedonia, zero sex drive, numbness, etc. And Deca dick seems to last forever. You could even say the phenomenon is identical.
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Thatās only a few isolated cases. Millions of people abuse the heck of of deca without getting impotence. Itās one of the most popular steroids. I always thought deca dick was from prolactin. Iāve had it from tren. Dick goes numb and itās hard to get hard and cum. Cabergoline usually takes care of the issue.
Someone here said male libido comes from testosterone and female libido from estrogen. Both estrogen and testosterone are super important for both sexes. Estrogen might be even more important. Too high or too low or some would even say test to estrogen ratio and you lose your libido.
At least if itās hormonal there is always something you can do about it.
Iām guessing this may be related to receptors density and sensitivity. Progesterone is said to play a role. Iāve observed low estrogen symptoms when Iām on substances that also affect progesterone despite normal serum E2. Could it be due to high Progesterone?
Yes, same for Propecia, Accutane, and SSRIs.
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It looks like the way Deca works and reason why bodybuilders use it is that it has similar effects on muscle as Testosterone, but it doesnāt convert to DHT. However, it does cause suppression of endogenous T and therefore DHT. So it actually lowers DHT. In that sense, itās similar to propecia. Maybe long-term Deca Dick is literally the same as PFS. While on cycle, guys suffer sexual consequences of low DHT. Then after the cycle a certain percentage further suffer the same long-term effects the PFS sufferers do, also because they had their DHT suppressed for a while and something went wrong when their DHT came back.
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As a bodybuilder I can chime in. Everyone who knows what they are doing uses testosterone as the base of their cycle. Nobody runs deca alone. Some people feel like they need more testosterone mg per mg than all other compounds combined to have libido while others swear by low trt replacement dosage.
What I am curious about is whether the enzyme that converts test to DHT gets damaged somehow by these drugs. I have noticed I aromatise a lot after using accutane but maybe itās not related. Aromatisation is the process of converting testosterone to estrogen. Maybe that means I donāt convert to DHT as much anymore. I didnāt include it in my last blood test because itās freaking expensive to test DHT. Around 50 euros alone for that. Too broke right now!
Anyway, my libido is gone as well but I donāt know if itās the 10mg accutane I took for 6-7 years when cycling roids, if itās 3 years of trenbolone use without coming off or if itās my ghb use which I mainly used to sleep and combat social anxiety when using trenboloneā¦ before getting hooked and using it all the time. All of these drugs seem to mess with dopamine. As a result I donāt really feel happiness or pleasure anymore, no libido, donāt want to socialise etc. I may come off the tren and see what happens but first I am trying upping testosterone to 1200mg! While on masteron and trenbolone too of course. If that testosterone dosage doesnāt make me feel alive nothing will lol.
I noticed issues early on but I also noticed using more test takes care of it so that is what Iām trying to do right now.
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What substances? I realised most lab tests that use old and cheap methods such as ECLIA to test for estrogen and testosterone are highly inaccurate. In my experience tren shows up as estrogen and many steroids show as testosterone in these tests. So you may have had actual low estrogen and the blood test was simply inaccurate.
I had nagging recurring tendinitis in both forearms and left shoulder from heavy lifting and bicep curls (straight bar) and started flax seed as well as Glucosamine/Choindroitin/MSM. One week in and I was getting symptoms including hot flashes, night sweats, lowish libido, pronounced wrinkles and weaker morning erections. I was recovering from a long standing case of low estrogen so I know the symptoms all too well.
I did more digging and came across some anecdotes with similar experiences. I also stumbled upon this on pubmed:
āIn conclusion, glucosamine is a nonhormonal inhibitor of decidualization of both human and mouse ESCs and of pregnancy in mice. Our data indicate the potential for development of glucosamine as a novel, reversible, nonhormonal contraceptive.ā
Itās known that higher Progesterone to Estrogen ratio in women works as contraceptive. I think Iāll only know when I drop everything and see how I feel.
@fml1
These are low T symptoms tooā¦
Never had these symptoms with low estrogen and I have experienced it hundreds of times fucking around with different hormones and AIs.
Low T or E2 is lifeās best example of the āchicken or the eggā paradox. We (Men) canāt have E2 or DHT without T. That said, Iāve had my T & E2 tested umpteen times and my single observation was that these symptoms were mostly correlated with low E2 since T was always showing up in the 500ish / 600ish range whilst E2 at the rock bottom. My low E2 probably had something to do adrenals but thatās for another thread.
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When you say low, how low are we talking here? Mine was as low as 10 pg/ml using the standard assay, which is notorious for overestimating the results since itās primarily meant for women.
I was thinking of a novel way to influence Progesterone/Estrogen ratio for a couple days and I stumbled upon this:
" Butyric acid regulates progesterone and estradiol secretion via cAMP signaling pathway in porcine granulosa cells
Butyric acid (BA), one of the short chain fatty acids (SCFAs), has positive actions on the metabolism, inflammation, etc. However, whether it influences the reproductive physiology and if so the detail mechanism involved has not yet been determined. In this study, the porcine granulosa cells (PGCs) were treated with gradient concentrations of BA. After 24 h culture, 0.05 mM BA significantly stimulated the progesterone (P4) secretion ( P < 0.05), 5 mM and 10 mM BA significantly inhibited the P4 secretion ( P < 0.05). Simultaneously, BA up-regulated the estradiol (E2) secretion in a dose dependent manner, 5 mM and 10 mM BA significantly promoted the E2level ( P < 0.05)."
So BA had an effect on P4 and E2 in a dose dependent manner where higher doses increase E2 and inhibits P4. I wonder if anyone on here had success with BA. I recall @MOONCHILD reporting recovery from Butyrate. Well, I did use Butyrate briefly to help with gut inflammation and to calm down rampant immune system but had to stop after starting Probiotics that are supposed to produce BA. I may jump back on it sometime later and see how this goes.
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This could be worth a try also seems very low-risk and straight forward given the safety profile of Butyric acid and the ease of obtaining it. May need to use fairly high dosages to notice any kind of effect though.
If you try it, please keep us updated.
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just as a side note, I had a estrogen, progesterone and prolactin blood test recently. Interestingly, my progesterone was very high and well outside the normal range. Prog was 1.04nmol/ml with the very top of normal range for a normal person being 0.474 nmol/ml (this result would likely be considered fairly high, mine was well over double this value.
Despite this, I donāt think serum tests hold a great deal of validity as our problems likely relate to changes in gene expression in the brain itself. However, is it possible that Iso treatment has led to an increase in progesterone producing enzymes (as I outlined above) throughout the body and thus my progesterone is still much higher than a normal person?
My estrogen and prolactin were within normal range.
how long did you take accutane?
Around 6 months I believe
Do you have any idea is Clomid worth trying? Maybe some of us just have unbalanced T:E2 ratio due to PAS?
I want to use low dose Clomid for few weeks but my E2 is already high (30) and im scared to try it because of thisā¦
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Its a good question. Anything is worth trying I suppose but I do believe the problem is a little more complex than merely hormonal imbalance. It is possible that hormonal imbalance led to some kind of change in gene expression which may then need to be rectified by altering hormone levels but its tough to say. Do you have PAS and all the normal symptoms?