Did Alex Miller just disappear? Is there still a channel to ask him questions about his theory?
Alex Miller posted on another forum and the posts were copied here (link below). He hasn’t posted since 2009 I believe.
hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=85335
Hi Everybody,
So this is my first message. I’ve been surfing various forums because I experience many of the negative side effects associated with prolonged finasteride use. I started using finasteride 4 years ago and have been off the medication for 1 year. I noticed after taking the medication that I was a lot slower to respond, I would stutter and slur my speech, lose my train of thought, and I couldn’t articulate simple ideas (it was very difficult to explain anything). Moreover, it became increasingly difficult to follow along in conversations. For me, there was a vast difference because I was very witty at one point and then it suddenly all vanished.
At the present moment, I am better, and although some of the symptoms diminished, I’m still having some difficulties with speech. After reading about Alex Miller’s demyelination theory several weeks ago, I became extremely frightened. I immediately arranged an appointment with my general practitioner who referred me to a great neurologist.
The neurologist who saw me is the Head of the Department of Neurology at a major hospital in California. She has her BS from Stanford University, her MD from Harvard Medical School, and conducted her residency at UCSF— in other words, she is extremely intelligent! I told her about this myelination theory and although she said it’s somewhat conceivable, she said it’s highly unlikely. Nonetheless, she ordered an MRI to be absolutely sure.
The day after the MRI, I went in to see her and she told me that I am fully myelinated! She also noted that although finasteride may block the neurosteroid allopreganolone through 5AR Type II inhibition, it is unlikely that it would cause demyelination. Her point was that allopregnanolone is a metabolite of progesterone and helps in myelination and repair. Blocking something that myelinates a neuron will NOT cause the neuron to DEmyelinate–the myelination is there, it’s not going anywhere. The only way that finasteride could possibly be a catalyst for demyelination is if you have a demyelinating disease of some sort. You see, myelin may wear down due to genetics (alzheimer’s disease/autoimmune response), infection, or a traumatic injury and if you take finasteride with any of these hallmarks, you will be aiding in demyelination and degeneration of the cells since allopreganalone would not be able to serve its myelin repair function.
Lastly, she noted that people who have taken propecia will disrupt the hormonal balance of the body which can lower testosterone and cause depression/anxiety. She said that this change in hormonal balance is very difficult to mitigate because a change to the endocrine system could cause your brain to remap (rewire) in profound ways that can alter thinking as well as speech. She said it is plausible that speech impediments are the result of an underlying anxiety disorder which is the result of a change in the endocrine system, which can cause the brain to rewire, which was caused by finasteride… (phewww, that was a mouthful)…
Nevertheless, she said the brain is very resilient and will ultimately return to a normal functioning state as long as you treat it well. She said that I should exercise regularly, eat right, don’t smoke, don’t drink, and really challenge my brain academically every day. Above all, she recommended not taking finasteride because the inhibition of neurosteroids makes it very difficult to learn and more importantly, remember new information. I hope this helps all of you!
Thanks for your post. Glad your results showed no demyelination, sounds like the neurologist you spoke with was accommodating and willing to work with you.
It also sounds like she is well aware of the dangers of Finasteride and its mechanisms of action. Was this the case or did you have to provide research for her to review?
It would be great if others could be tested to further add evidence either for or against this hypothesis, to compare results.
The key is that I went to my general practictioner and told him there was something seriously wrong and explained the symptoms. I didn’t mention finasteride until I spoke with the neurologist he referred me to. The neurologist ordered an MRI not because she agreed with me but, because I had noticed a discernable difference in cognitive function. Any doctor would be completely insane if they completely ignored your symptoms. My Neurologist thought an MRI was a good idea because she wanted to see if anything was visibly wrong. She said it’s the next best thing to cutting me open and was able to see everything. She also noted that the MRI machine I used is a few months old, cost millions of dollars, and is state of the art technology.
I had both diffusion MRI and EEG; both showing no abnormalities although cognitive problems persist.
Any chance you could find out more specific information about the MRI machine and what type of MRI you had? There are many kinds of MRIs and MRI tests.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging
There are MRI units that go up to 12.0 teslas so the information your neuro gave you doesn’t really tell how strong it is.
The whole point of Alex Miller’s posts is that their may be damage caused to the spinal cord and not the brain because 5aR-2 is not present in the brain but it is likely present in the spinal column (although neurosteroids produced elsewhere in the body by 5aR-2 may also have an impact on the brain).
Did you have an MRI of the spinal cord?
I completed a graduate degree whilst using finasteride, with no issues. My problems only started when I stopped!
Agree with you 100%. I would love to hear about someone actually getting the spinal cord thoroughly checked out. The only doctor, who I think might be open to ordering a test, would be Dr. Alan Jacob’s(a neuro-endocrinologist who’s on our side apparently) in NYC, or the local university teaching hospital. In my ‘gut’ opinion, I think the problem is also rooted in the spinal cord. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s also some nerve damage. I just wish I had the money and insurance to get it done for myself.
I was also doing well, before and during drug use mentally.
Sharp as a tack. My cognitive problem’s also began when I stopped the stupid poison.
I had a spinal chord MRI done last week…the results are in, however i have no clue of what that means…i can tell you that it says, little degeneration on the C4 to C5, wait let me copy and paste it on google translator.
Magnetic Resonance, COLUMN TOTAL
COLUMN TOTAL MAGNETIC RESONANCE
method:
Following examination with ESF on T1 and T2. Plans cuts
multiple.
analysis:
CERVICAL SPINE
Bony structures of the usual signal.
Mild degenerative disc changes extending from C3-C4 through C5-C6.
Minimum bulging disc C3-C4, lightly touching the ventral surface of the
dural sac without significant neural compression.
Other topics intervertebral discs.
Spinal cord signal usual.
Intervertebral foramina gauge preserved.
Joints interapophyseal unchanged.
Craniocervical junction without change.
DORSAL COLUMN
Vertebral height and alignment and signal preserved.
Small posterior disc protrusion at T2-T3, T5, T6, T6-T7 and T7-T8, more
prominent at this level, lightly touching the ventral surface of the bag
dural nerve without significant compression.
Spinal cord signal usual.
Spinal canal amplitude preserved.
Intervertebral foramina free.
Joints interapophyseal unchanged.
Paravertebral muscles preserved.
lumbosacral spine
Vertebral height, alignment and signal preserved.
Intervertebral discs of normal signal threads.
Intervertebral foramina gauge preserved.
Joints interapophyseal unchanged.
Paravertebral muscles preserved.
Conus of normal location.
there you go…just got home i was having my knee MRI done…and results are in on march 1, and i brooke my foot going to school this morning so that sucks too!
i cant wait to see dr franckevicius again!!!
so as i was havin the ultrasond done…the doctor noticed my prostate is slightly larger than usual…so that;s something i need to investigate further.
Mbasile’s info was very informative about his doctors appt. I actually had an EEG a while back which did show there was an issue. The signals were weak which explains my fog but it’s interesting how some others had ok EEGs.
I conveyed the exact message to my doctor. I told her she should be looking at the spinal cord. However, she looked at me as if I was retarded. She noted the spinal cord is responsible for musculoskeletal response whereas “brain fog,” as it’s coined, would result from demyelination of neurons in the brain. Demyelination of motor neurons in the spine may explain a limp penis but, your spinal cord doesn’t have neurons that effect cognitive function–that happens in the brain.
That being said, I received an MRI of the brain, the brain stem, including the cervical portion of the spine. When all was said and done, I found out that I am fully myelinated.
Hey mbasile,
You say you’re a bit better now. Did you do anything in particular?
Has anyone actually been tested for MS by a doctor?
mariovitali was tested for positive for signs of demyelination. Instead of derailing that thread I moved my response to this topic…
The pudendal neuropathies have been found as inflammation in or around the pudendal nerve if I remember correct. One was even found to have an “oedema” there.
Now the connection to possible demyelination is below…
From hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=85335
"Sexual function is also associated with the sacral region, and is often affected. Men normally have two types of erections. The brain is the source of psychogenic erections. The process begins with sexual thoughts or seeing or hearing something stimulating or arousing. Signals from the brain are then sent through the nerves of the spinal cord down to the T10-L2 levels. The signals are then relayed to the penis and trigger an erection. A reflex erection occurs with direct physical contact to the penis or other erotic areas such as the ears, nipples or neck. A reflex erection is involuntary and can occur without sexually stimulating thoughts. The nerves that control a man’s ability to have a reflex erection are located in the sacral nerves (S2-S4) of the spinal cord."
++++++++++++
The sacral nerves (S2-S4) are guess what nerves??? They are the Pudental nerves!
Something to consider…
Demyelination that would occur via 5AR inhibition, would not occur on the entire spinal cord or the entire brain. It would ONLY occur in the androgen dependent structures of the spinal cord.
So testing the entire spinal cord would appear to not be an accurate measure especially as they would usually only look at the white areas of the spine and we need to be looking in the grey areas…
The best area to look at would be test for demyelination in the following grey matter regions of the spinal chord (this is done by MRI=Magnetic Resonance Imaging): Anterior horn, lateral horn and posterior horn. as that is where the highest levels of 5AR2 are normally.
I think a few guys were tested negative.
They guy who just tested positive for demyelination will be getting tested for MS soon. Other than that there are these cases…
patientsville.com/medication/propecia_side_effects.htm
"Propecia Side Effects Report #5225179-3
Physician from GERMANY reported PROPECIA problem on Jan 26, 2007. Male patient, 39 years of age, was treated with PROPECIA. After drug was administered, patient experienced the following problems/side effects: multiple sclerosis…"
askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=20788&name=propecia
[i]“like many others, I began taking propecia shortly after it came out. I mainly wanted to keep the hair I had and wasn’t too concerned with growing any back. I tried rogaine several years earlier and not only was it messy to deal with, I didn’t see any results. Within a few months of taking propecia, I noticed my hairloss had significantly decreased and had actually seen some new growth in the front portion of my head. Everything seemed to be going along fine until a little over a year ago. I started having problems that included dizzyness or off-balance feeling, slurring words or speaking incoherently, tired, headaches, night sweats. I saw every specialist in the book and was misdiagonosed with having inner ear problems, migraines, possible early signs of MS & very high anxiety. I was put on all different kinds of medication but to no avail. All along I continued to take propecia since none of the many specialists (ent, GP, neurologist) didn’t tell me to stop taking it.”
And there is probably a lot more. I found these two cases within two minutes. And they have been posted before I said anything about my theory. The latter case is about a finasteride user who took the drug for 10 years. He had the same “side” effects as my friend who goes through hell right now because of this drug. There definitely is anecdotical evidence which suggests that neurodegeneration takes place in the long term.
Another point: Some people still don’t understand that demyelination can be selective. I just tell you: finasteride is a selective 5AR2 inhibitor, so the depletion of allopregnanolone and therefore the demyelination will be selective too, namely in androgen dependent structures of the CNS.
. [/i]
Here is the post from another thread moonman refer’s to about the member who has been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis:
Subject: Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone or 5ar2 antibodies.
Follow the link above to read the rest of the post.
Another point on this…I don’t think testing positive for MS is a strong indicator for demyelination for anyone who took a 5ar inhibitor. Multiple Sclerosis is when your entire body is no longer able myelinate. Whereas, for us, it would only be the androgen sensitive regions of the spine (and less-so in the brain) that would have demyelination.
I may be wrong, but that is how I understood what Alex Miller explained…