Finasteride and Neurological Damage

Symptoms Neurological
#121

I have been looking into whether ‘neurological damage’ can actually cause the same symptoms presented on this forum. I began by looking for what can cause anhedonia.

The things that I think cause anhedonia are;

  1. Endocrine problem (testosterone!)

  2. Severe depression

  3. Schizophrenia (thought to be linked to a dopaminergic pathway problem)

  4. Disruption of dopamine in the brain - use of antidopaminergic agents or physical damage (lobotomy etc)

  5. Illness (Sickness behaviour)

It is actually this 5th reason that is important here (see; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickness_behavior)

Behavioral aspects of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (see; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10683512)


Further evidence for the depressive effects of cytokines: anhedonia and neurochemical changes ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12401468

Anhedonic and anxiogenic effects of cytokine exposure. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10442175

Effects of cytokines and infections on brain neurochemistry ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18079991

Cytokine dysregulation, inflammation and well-being. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16166805

A meta-analysis of cytokines in major depression ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20015486

So this behaviour is mediated by Cytokines acting upon the brain - or within the CNS itself. Cytokines are secreted by the nervous and immune system during inflammation. Finasteride can induce hypersensitivity reactions (see; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersensitivity).

The problem is if encephalomyelitis was our problem (CNS inflammation) it should also cause other, additional symptoms. There is a less severe variant known as chronic brain inflammation/neuroinflammation which is linked to alzheimers but also now some forms of severe depression (see; sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101020091857.htm) so such a thing could possibly be existing within us.

Cytokines are perhaps even more of relevance in that they can also cause peripheral neuropathy - which can of course cause ED, numb penis and anorgasmia (see; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9773044). Prof Traish has stated nerve damage is causing our ED. Of course trying to link this all together would mean degeneration only on a local level - where Finasteride has acted on 5aR (or the body is now recognises 5aR as foreign!). That perhaps stretches things a bit.

So Cytokines are also something that can cause the symptoms. Something else worth checking. I am now out of ideas.

#122

Nows a great chance to get a life then.

#123

To the two of you: Do not keep slinging mud across threads and egging each other on to retaliate, or both your accounts will be suspended for a period of time. This is the only warning.

1 Like
#124

I have had several autoimmune disorders (iritis and serberretic dermatitis). Wiki states “Certain individuals are genetically susceptible to developing autoimmune diseases.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoimmunity

Also many people on the site have developed Peyronie’s Disease which is speculated to be a autoimmune disorder, along with a number of people who have thyroid problems that may be autoimmune related.

#125

Why hasn’t there been any significant updates to this thread in over a year? What ever happened to Alex Miller and this theory?

Has anyone tested this…
[i]You need a more specific test for demyelination:

Tell the doctor/neurologist that you want to test for demyelination in the following grey matter regions of the spinal chord (this is done by MRI=Magnetic Resonance Imaging): Anterior horn, lateral horn and posterior horn.[/i]

#126

This might be of interest to the thread:

Researchers now suspect low levels of Allopregnanolone as a factor in multiple sclerosis. Finasteride is a documented neurosteroid inhibitor of Allopregnanolone synthesis.

viewtopic.php?p=44486#p44486

#127

Mew you still stand with Allopregnanolone (or Miller’s theory about demyelenation)as being the main cause of our issues?

#128

any body got any benefits from Epsom salt or other compounds?

#129

Let me know of a any neurologist’s who will be open towards doing this specific MRI.

Also, has anyone on this forum confirmed damage to this particular region of the spine?

#130

I find it interesting, yet frustrating, that this theory already has ‘hole’s in it’ (no pun intended), because many of us, have less cognitive problems with fasting, less or no caffeine, no alchohol (metabolic pathways)…not too convincing for me, but a goal of mine is to get my neck and spine MRI done one day when and if I can afford an MRI on my own, cause US medical insurance will not cover it. Thanks Mew.

#131

…post concussion like syndrome anyone? is this really a stretch? read on:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome

“deficiencies of pituitary hormones (hypopituitarism) can cause similar symptoms to post-concussion syndrome; in these cases, symptoms can be treated by replacing any hormone deficiencies.”

#132

Post Concussion ‘Like’ Syndrome’ side effect’s are also pretty spot on, and accurate in describing my symptoms regarding cognitive issues.

Most of you don’t know this, but I was involved in a car accident back in 2002. Many years before I tried the dreaded poison called Propecia.
I was definitely knocked unconscious, for at least 10-20 minutes. I struck the back of my head with the windshield. I was hit head on by a drunk driver. My other theory, for myself, is that, post accident, certain hormone’s ‘being played with’ by propecia, were somehow keeping thing’s together in my brain or spine. They were critical for healing or keeping thing’s together, possibly whatever the concussion did to my system. Could be that propecia damaged the delicate chemistry, that was necessary, for keeping the post concussion damage reactions at bay. Not now. I have had a difficult time selling this to my neurologist, who simply had an MRI done of my brain. They found nothing wrong with my brain, but I feel strongly that they never took into account my past concussion and also should have had an MRI done of my neck and spine. I heard of football players having concussions, and many years later, they suffer the same symptoms that we have mentally. Read what hormone’s have in common with concussions. You will be shocked!

It might be the same for you guy’s, but possibly in a different context. I certainly wouldn’t rule this out. Could propecia have possibly created a PCS-like syndrome in some of us, by simply altering critical hormones (in certain men) in the hypothalmus and pituitary? Very possible. Why not. Some of us with cognitive issue’s may have had an issue where hormone’s played a more significant role for us, than possibly others.

Post Concussion Symptoms ------ Compare these to Post Finasteride Syndrome!

Headache’s
Dizziness
Fatigue
Insomnia or Sleep problems
Irritability
Shake or Move neck around - Thing’s seem clearer or thing’s seem worse.
Shower - Do showers make you feel any different?
Concentration problems
Changes in personality
Apathy
Anxiety or Depression (Affect Changes)
Problems tolerating Stress/Emotion/Alchohol
Memory problems

#133

Absolutely this could be true. And it may suggest that we are infact sufferering from some sort of neurological inflammation. Some information that mew posted backs up what you are saying robertino

It also suggests that the problem may be autoimmune.

How about this, the members with just erectlie/libido problems have suffered a problem with nerves that are associated with dht. Where some of the unlucky bastards on the forum have suffered problems associated with allopregnenalone, thdoc and dht.

Possibly an autoimmune reaction causing neurological inflammation, i dont believe this would show up in blood tests. To be honest my brain feels like its inflammed, to big for my skull, and whats with muscle twitches, thats got neurological problems all over it.
I am inclined to think auto immune because of the way most crashed, after stopping the drug.

So the question i ask is there any anti-inflams that cross the blood brain barrier and would they be helpful? And do we need to suppress the immune system while we do it? I do believe there are members claiming success from ibuprofen.

Also robertino after a shower is when i feel best, last for about 2-5 minutes.
Either way mate sucks to be us right?

Late edit

Can anyone add to this? As in are there any on the market yet?

[Size=4]Potential prodrugs of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents for targeted drug delivery to the CNS.[/size]Perioli L, Ambrogi V, Bernardini C, Grandolini G, Ricci M, Giovagnoli S, Rossi C.
SourceDipartimento di Chimica e Tecnologia del Farmaco, Via del Liceo 1, Università degli Studi di Perugia, 06123 Perugia, Italy. luanaper@unipg.it

Abstract
Recently non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) have been proposed to prevent or to cure Alzheimer’s disease. In this respect, we synthesized new potential prodrugs of several NSAIDs in order to increase their access to the brain. The carboxylic group of NSAIDs was attached to the 1,4-dihydro-1-methylpyridine-3-carboxylate moiety, which acts as a carrier, via an amino alcohol bridge, according to the chemical delivery approach developed by Bodor. The lipophilicity of potential prodrugs was evaluated both via traditional experimental parameters, such as partition coefficient and chromatographic R(m) value, and by predictive computational methods. From experimental parameters, all prodrugs were more lipophilic when compared to their corresponding parent compounds and consequently a better blood brain barrier (BBB) penetration is hypothesised. Prodrug lipophilicity was correlated with a calculated log P value according to Kowwin’s method. The correlation between experimental Rm0 and calculated log P, determined by PLS analysis, was good for all compounds with the exception of compound 7i. In addition the BBB permeation profile of our synthesized compounds was predicted using the BBB VolSurf model and seven of the synthesized prodrugs resulted in good candidates for BBB penetration

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#134

Not sure what to say man. How many tests do we need to take? Fuck.

This is really not at all fun. I’d like to be healthy already!

#135

Allopregnanolone in drug form would be ideal :smiley:

#136

It’s called “Ganaxolone”: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganaxolone

#137

Thanks Mew. It’s not available even from a doctor yet though.

Definitely one to look out for!

Zulresso (IV Allopregnanolone)
#138

I have posted this in another thread but allopregnanolone is available from a doctor. At UC Davis they are manufacturing a drug for allopregnanolone and are administering it to patients in a study.

ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20100203_brain_injury/index.html

#139

I think his point is that it’s still in the study phase and it’s only being tested on traumatic brain injuries.

#140

That was exactly my point.