Finasteride and Neurological Damage

Symptoms Neurological
#101

To cut a long story short, I have been using Propecia for 7 years and have stopped for good for a week now after discovering this forum. Last year, I also developed the symptoms of MS. I had tests done, which (I was surprised but none the less pleased to find) found no evidence of demylenation. They did discover a growth spur on my spine in my neck, which was apparantly putting pressure on the spinal cord, and which they concluded was causing the symptoms. I was relieved, but I’m still not entirely convinced. Apart from some periodic dizziness, I’ve been free of those symptoms for almost a year (they cleared up after about three months). Surely the growth spur is always there, it doesn’t retract? But anyway, I am now reading this thread today, and I wish I’d discovered it last year. I am also grateful to Alex for looking into this, as I do believe he’s on to something with this.

With all due respect, I do fundamentally disagree with Alex though on one point that he made. From the the accounts that all the members appear to have given on this site, it appears to me that the problems with impotence are a side effect of either temporary or permanantly reduced testosterone levels. If all impotence was a side effect of demylenation, then all the members on here who reported impotence as a side effect would also be reporting the other symptoms of demylenation e.g dizziness and nausea, loss of movement in limbs, muscle cramps and spasms, slurred speech, feelings of disco-ordination, tingling and numbness etc, and they don’t. It seems to me that when you take into account the other commonly reported side effects of Propecia usage e.g testicular shrinkage, gynecomastia, reduced ejaculate, penile shrikage, a damage or inhibition to testosterone production is the primary cause of the Impotence.

It’s an important point to make, because it’s one thing for the forum members to be dealing with the health problems that they have as it is, without believing that they have MS as well, which at the end of the day is a permanantly dibilitating and life threatening illness.

#102

I have had benifit from vit c 3-4g p/d.

In my hair test lithium was extremly low. Suprising considering how much vegetables, dairy and eggs i eat. Of course the reliability of hair tests is very much up for debate.

I have some epsoms salts here, i wonder if soaking in it would be benificial for this type of thing. I remember soaking in epson salt was the first thing that made me feel better. Drinking it seems risky

#103

Lithium is a hard drug for bipolar treatment. it may have application but it is a permanant treatment and people who take it are generally changed afterwards.

epsom salts are full of magnesium. You can get quite a bit in your system by soaking in them, 1 or 2 cups in your bathwater for 20 min. There are supplements of magnesium that can be drunk that are purer than the average epsom salts.

#104

so finally after ALEX wrote his theory,there is still nobody that made a test to prove demyelinization??..strangewe could have a good answer from testing it and nobody tred to test for it ??? …incredible,we speack so much on this forum to find out what the cause of this mess could be and when we have a chance to try to have a real answer ,nobody does anythin…so we just want to speack and not try to get rid from this mess… great !!!

#105

Sorry can i know from somebody why noone made this test ?? why?? i want to know it specially from the people that is here writing on this forum from many years and is still suffering !!! why you dont g to check for the problems Alex told us we can have ??? please reply me …thanks

#106

It’s not an easy test to do. As far as I remember, you need a special MRI machine, plus a doctor that prescribes it and spare $$$ if your medical insurance doesn’t cover it.

I believe postfinsufferer had the test done and nothing was found.

#107

Hope we havent totally ruled this out. I have been doing research into this area lately.

5alpha reductase (and 3aHSD) have been found in the peripheral nervous system as well as the central nervous system. ( see; Testosterone metabolism in peripheral nerves dx.doi.org/10.1016/0022-4731(9090159-P )

5alpha and 3alpha reduced metabolites may play an important role in myelin protection. ( see; Formation and effects of neuroactive steroids in the central and peripheral nervous system http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0074-7742(01)46062-4 )

5alpha reductase activity in the nervous system is associated with myelin membranes. (see; Testosterone metabolism in brain cells and membranes http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0960-0760(91)90289-H )

Some of the severe symptoms of this PFS are similar to the demylenation of the CNS that occurs in MS or the peripheral neuropathy of diabetes. As well as related diseases. But none of the problems match exactly and would cause other sympyoms noone has. However it turns out that even Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is now thought to be due to an autoimmune inflammation of the CNS ( see; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalomyelitis). So I guess anything is possible when it comes to illnesses of this sort.

It could be that finasteride has triggered some inflammation/autoimmune problems within part of the nervous system. This could be exarcebated by androgen deprevation. This may stop when quitting, or this may get worse after stopping, because 5alpha reductase regenerates and there is now ‘more’ to get inflammed. It is true that other autoimmune problems are associated with problems of this sort (there is a high incidence of hashimotos, serberretic dermatitis and possibly gluten intolerance on this board). I dont know how 3aDiolG would be low in such a circumstance. Just some ideas, I may well try to get some tests done in this area.

#108

Not really.

#109

I’m beginning to think there is something to the theory that pfs may be autoimmune related. Several members have said that they have felt better after sexually after a night of drinking (youngbuck21 is one viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4913). Alcohol consumption can supress the immune system:

medicmagic.net/can-alcohol-overcome-rheumatic.html#more-5589
Even though alcohol is known to be bad for libido, if pfs is autoimmune related some amount of alcohol seems to help some people.

#110

Alcohol also raises allopro.

#111

Problems involving the nervous system are often inflammation/autoimmune related. Finasteride acts upon the nervous sytem, crosses the brain-blood barrier and can cause hypersensitivity reactions.

It is also true that more than one person has has success with with Corticosteroids - presumably due to their anti-inflammatory or immune system effects. The stronger versions of these drugs are often used to treat such illnesses.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1630&p=17147&hilit=dexamethasone#p17147 (Dexamethasone)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1670&p=30629#p30629 (prednisone)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2261&p=32092#p32092 (hydrocortisone)
(and steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/585761-finasteride-induced-serious-problems.html (Dexamethasone))

I find the story of corrievip to be believable. Others have had success. Notably I know of three others who have used HC (the weaker variant) with no success.

I dont know what test to perform for such a ‘new’ illness. But, presumably a test for autoantibodies or a lumbar puncture to test cerebrospinal fluid for inflammation within the central nervous system.

(ps. I have just discovered that people with MS often have lowered body temperatures… a disease of the Central nervous system, autonomic nervous system… this is interesting as this is also the trend on this forum.)

#112

corrievip had celiacs disease, addressing this can reverse male hypogondolism, there is a study on the forum.
go on oscar and anyone else who keeps talking about prednisone as the cure…try it, see how you like a bit of blurred vision, tooth sensitivity and water retention mixed in with your pfs.

#113

Dont think so. I assume that is your own personal diagnosis?

I posted that study. It doesnt say that. (it doesnt say hypogondolism either)

Im only advocating people get tested. Tim, if you really want to be constructive why not edit the 500+ posts you made about “copper toxicity”?

…

The nervous system is an interesting avenue to explore because other than the endocrine system it is the one thing that, literally, connects all of the symptoms. Both Prof Traish and Dr Irwig have stated the nervous sytem is involved.

However it is a complex area and i am curently attempting to improve my knowledge. Most problems do involve inflammation.

#114

Gluten study ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7988065

Pm corrievip and im sure he will tell you.

Leave your bedroom once in a while phantom man.

Btw i post what i want to post just like you do … tool.

1 Like
#115

There is difference: you have never, ever posted anything even half-intelligent. (If you have please provide a link… :laughing: )

Unless you have anything serious to add - I prefer to keep this thread on topic.

#116

I feel really sorry for you oscar you come across as a nerdy little weed who never leaves his bedroom.

Yes back on topic starting now.

#117

You come across as… someone who is sitting on their hands just waiting for someone else to come and help them. Sitting waiting for someone else to try and find out whats going on. Sitting and waiting for someone else to come and save them from all their problems. The only thing you have researched in any depth is “copper toxicity”. You are unable to do the (small) amount of research that I have done due to a poor attitude, lack of knowledge and low IQ. Your contribution is negligible at best, misleading at worst. You are in no position to critisize me at all.

Starting now!

#118

Oscar look, you can slag my iq my lack of interset in solving the problem all you want. But i dont have time to sit around googling all day, i have a mortgage to pay, i have a g/f to entertain and i have friendships to maintain. You are right about the copper thing it was a dead horse, i mean so what, so is everything else on this forum.

Unless you have contacts with a lab, scientist and funding and/or a vast amount of education in this field im sorry to say but you can post all you want about irreversible brain damage/phantom dht/liver metabolism/estrogen resistance/3ahsd deficiency/autoimmune disorder and what ever else you cook up next week, but it isnt going anywhere, the answer is not on google.

The best we can do is to win court cases against these guys and go from there.
Just remember oscar life goes on and these are still the only days that you will get on earth, resolution of pfs would be out of sight, but im not putting my life on hold until that time.

#119

I hope you got that out of your system. I would point out you have nearly x3 as many posts as I have in the same amount of time! Trying to research things is normal. I am very surprised more people dont.

#120

Finding a blanket answer for our “situation” is clearly massively difficult.

I’ve focused my time on trying to recover, therefore researching treatments that are available and have recovered other people. That is more within our grasp than being able to acheive a coherent theory that applies to all.