Finasteride and Neurological Damage

[robertino_totti]

Post Concussion ‘Like’ Syndrome’ side effect’s are also pretty spot on, and accurate in describing my symptoms regarding cognitive issues.

Most of you don’t know this, but I was involved in a car accident back in 2002. Many years before I tried the dreaded poison called Propecia.
I was definitely knocked unconscious, for at least 10-20 minutes. I struck the back of my head with the windshield. I was hit head on by a drunk driver. My other theory, for myself, is that, post accident, certain hormone’s ‘being played with’ by propecia, were somehow keeping thing’s together in my brain or spine. They were critical for healing or keeping thing’s together, possibly whatever the concussion did to my system. Could be that propecia damaged the delicate chemistry, that was necessary, for keeping the post concussion damage reactions at bay. Not now. I have had a difficult time selling this to my neurologist, who simply had an MRI done of my brain. They found nothing wrong with my brain, but I feel strongly that they never took into account my past concussion and also should have had an MRI done of my neck and spine. I heard of football players having concussions, and many years later, they suffer the same symptoms that we have mentally. Read what hormone’s have in common with concussions. You will be shocked!

It might be the same for you guy’s, but possibly in a different context. I certainly wouldn’t rule this out. Could propecia have possibly created a PCS-like syndrome in some of us, by simply altering critical hormones (in certain men) in the hypothalmus and pituitary? Very possible. Why not. Some of us with cognitive issue’s may have had an issue where hormone’s played a more significant role for us, than possibly others.

Post Concussion Symptoms ------ Compare these to Post Finasteride Syndrome!

Headache’s
Dizziness
Fatigue
Insomnia or Sleep problems
Irritability
Shake or Move neck around - Thing’s seem clearer or thing’s seem worse.
Shower - Do showers make you feel any different?
Concentration problems
Changes in personality
Apathy
Anxiety or Depression (Affect Changes)
Problems tolerating Stress/Emotion/Alchohol
Memory problems

[tim1911]

My other theory, for myself, is that, post accident, certain hormone’s ‘being played with’ by propecia, were somehow keeping thing’s together in my brain or spine. They were critical for healing or keeping thing’s together, possibly whatever the concussion did to my system.

Absolutely this could be true. And it may suggest that we are infact sufferering from some sort of neurological inflammation. Some information that mew posted backs up what you are saying robertino

Allopregnanolone also appears to diminish proinflammatory activity of at least some immune cells, the researchers indicated. But unlike glucocorticoids, it lacks broad immunosuppressive effects – “hence, this and related molecules might provide new therapeutic options, devoid of the side-effects of common immunosuppressive therapies,” Power and colleagues wrote.

It also suggests that the problem may be autoimmune.

How about this, the members with just erectlie/libido problems have suffered a problem with nerves that are associated with dht. Where some of the unlucky bastards on the forum have suffered problems associated with allopregnenalone, thdoc and dht.

Possibly an autoimmune reaction causing neurological inflammation, i dont believe this would show up in blood tests. To be honest my brain feels like its inflammed, to big for my skull, and whats with muscle twitches, thats got neurological problems all over it.
I am inclined to think auto immune because of the way most crashed, after stopping the drug.

So the question i ask is there any anti-inflams that cross the blood brain barrier and would they be helpful? And do we need to suppress the immune system while we do it? I do believe there are members claiming success from ibuprofen.

Also robertino after a shower is when i feel best, last for about 2-5 minutes.
Either way mate sucks to be us right?

---

Late edit

Can anyone add to this? As in are there any on the market yet?

[Size=4]Potential prodrugs of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents for targeted drug delivery to the CNS.[/size]Perioli L, Ambrogi V, Bernardini C, Grandolini G, Ricci M, Giovagnoli S, Rossi C.
SourceDipartimento di Chimica e Tecnologia del Farmaco, Via del Liceo 1, Università degli Studi di Perugia, 06123 Perugia, Italy. luanaper@unipg.it

Abstract
Recently non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) have been proposed to prevent or to cure Alzheimer’s disease. In this respect, we synthesized new potential prodrugs of several NSAIDs in order to increase their access to the brain. The carboxylic group of NSAIDs was attached to the 1,4-dihydro-1-methylpyridine-3-carboxylate moiety, which acts as a carrier, via an amino alcohol bridge, according to the chemical delivery approach developed by Bodor. The lipophilicity of potential prodrugs was evaluated both via traditional experimental parameters, such as partition coefficient and chromatographic R(m) value, and by predictive computational methods. From experimental parameters, all prodrugs were more lipophilic when compared to their corresponding parent compounds and consequently a better blood brain barrier (BBB) penetration is hypothesised. Prodrug lipophilicity was correlated with a calculated log P value according to Kowwin’s method. The correlation between experimental Rm0 and calculated log P, determined by PLS analysis, was good for all compounds with the exception of compound 7i. In addition the BBB permeation profile of our synthesized compounds was predicted using the BBB VolSurf model and seven of the synthesized prodrugs resulted in good candidates for BBB penetration

[robertino_totti]

Not sure what to say man. How many tests do we need to take? Fuck.

This is really not at all fun. I’d like to be healthy already!

[bluecloud87]

Allopregnanolone in drug form would be ideal

[Mew]

Allopregnanolone in drug form would be ideal

It’s called “Ganaxolone”: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganaxolone

[bluecloud87]

@Mew

Allopregnanolone in drug form would be ideal

It’s called “Ganaxolone”: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganaxolone

Thanks Mew. It’s not available even from a doctor yet though.

Definitely one to look out for!

[adam1515]

I have posted this in another thread but allopregnanolone is available from a doctor. At UC Davis they are manufacturing a drug for allopregnanolone and are administering it to patients in a study.

ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20100203_brain_injury/index.html

[martinM]

@adam1515

I have posted this in another thread but allopregnanolone is available from a doctor. At UC Davis they are manufacturing a drug for allopregnanolone and are administering it to patients in a study.

ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20100203_brain_injury/index.html

I think his point is that it’s still in the study phase and it’s only being tested on traumatic brain injuries.

[bluecloud87]

That was exactly my point.

[moonman1]

Did Alex Miller just disappear? Is there still a channel to ask him questions about his theory?

[martinM]

Alex Miller posted on another forum and the posts were copied here (link below). He hasn’t posted since 2009 I believe.

hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=85335

[mbasile]

Hi Everybody,

So this is my first message. I’ve been surfing various forums because I experience many of the negative side effects associated with prolonged finasteride use. I started using finasteride 4 years ago and have been off the medication for 1 year. I noticed after taking the medication that I was a lot slower to respond, I would stutter and slur my speech, lose my train of thought, and I couldn’t articulate simple ideas (it was very difficult to explain anything). Moreover, it became increasingly difficult to follow along in conversations. For me, there was a vast difference because I was very witty at one point and then it suddenly all vanished.

At the present moment, I am better, and although some of the symptoms diminished, I’m still having some difficulties with speech. After reading about Alex Miller’s demyelination theory several weeks ago, I became extremely frightened. I immediately arranged an appointment with my general practitioner who referred me to a great neurologist.

The neurologist who saw me is the Head of the Department of Neurology at a major hospital in California. She has her BS from Stanford University, her MD from Harvard Medical School, and conducted her residency at UCSF— in other words, she is extremely intelligent! I told her about this myelination theory and although she said it’s somewhat conceivable, she said it’s highly unlikely. Nonetheless, she ordered an MRI to be absolutely sure.

The day after the MRI, I went in to see her and she told me that I am fully myelinated! She also noted that although finasteride may block the neurosteroid allopreganolone through 5AR Type II inhibition, it is unlikely that it would cause demyelination. Her point was that allopregnanolone is a metabolite of progesterone and helps in myelination and repair. Blocking something that myelinates a neuron will NOT cause the neuron to DEmyelinate–the myelination is there, it’s not going anywhere. The only way that finasteride could possibly be a catalyst for demyelination is if you have a demyelinating disease of some sort. You see, myelin may wear down due to genetics (alzheimer’s disease/autoimmune response), infection, or a traumatic injury and if you take finasteride with any of these hallmarks, you will be aiding in demyelination and degeneration of the cells since allopreganalone would not be able to serve its myelin repair function.

Lastly, she noted that people who have taken propecia will disrupt the hormonal balance of the body which can lower testosterone and cause depression/anxiety. She said that this change in hormonal balance is very difficult to mitigate because a change to the endocrine system could cause your brain to remap (rewire) in profound ways that can alter thinking as well as speech. She said it is plausible that speech impediments are the result of an underlying anxiety disorder which is the result of a change in the endocrine system, which can cause the brain to rewire, which was caused by finasteride… (phewww, that was a mouthful)…

Nevertheless, she said the brain is very resilient and will ultimately return to a normal functioning state as long as you treat it well. She said that I should exercise regularly, eat right, don’t smoke, don’t drink, and really challenge my brain academically every day. Above all, she recommended not taking finasteride because the inhibition of neurosteroids makes it very difficult to learn and more importantly, remember new information. I hope this helps all of you!

[Mew]

Thanks for your post. Glad your results showed no demyelination, sounds like the neurologist you spoke with was accommodating and willing to work with you.

It also sounds like she is well aware of the dangers of Finasteride and its mechanisms of action. Was this the case or did you have to provide research for her to review?

It would be great if others could be tested to further add evidence either for or against this hypothesis, to compare results.

[mbasile]

The key is that I went to my general practictioner and told him there was something seriously wrong and explained the symptoms. I didn’t mention finasteride until I spoke with the neurologist he referred me to. The neurologist ordered an MRI not because she agreed with me but, because I had noticed a discernable difference in cognitive function. Any doctor would be completely insane if they completely ignored your symptoms. My Neurologist thought an MRI was a good idea because she wanted to see if anything was visibly wrong. She said it’s the next best thing to cutting me open and was able to see everything. She also noted that the MRI machine I used is a few months old, cost millions of dollars, and is state of the art technology.

[strat99]

I had both diffusion MRI and EEG; both showing no abnormalities although cognitive problems persist.

[martinM]

@mbasile

She also noted that the MRI machine I used is a few months old, cost millions of dollars, and is state of the art technology.

Any chance you could find out more specific information about the MRI machine and what type of MRI you had? There are many kinds of MRIs and MRI tests.

1.5 tesla scanners often cost between US$1 million and US$1.5 million. 3.0 tesla scanners often cost between US$2 million and US$2.3 million.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging

There are MRI units that go up to 12.0 teslas so the information your neuro gave you doesn’t really tell how strong it is.

physorg.com/news65118497.html

[Oscar]

@mbasile

Nevertheless, she said the brain is very resilient and will ultimately return to a normal functioning state as long as you treat it well. She said that I should exercise regularly, eat right, don’t smoke, don’t drink, and really challenge my brain academically every day.

The whole point of Alex Miller’s posts is that their may be damage caused to the spinal cord and not the brain because 5aR-2 is not present in the brain but it is likely present in the spinal column (although neurosteroids produced elsewhere in the body by 5aR-2 may also have an impact on the brain).

Did you have an MRI of the spinal cord?

@mbasile

Above all, she recommended not taking finasteride because the inhibition of neurosteroids makes it very difficult to learn and more importantly, remember new information. I hope this helps all of you!

I completed a graduate degree whilst using finasteride, with no issues. My problems only started when I stopped!

[robertino_totti]

The whole point of Alex Miller’s posts is that their may be damage caused to the spinal cord and not the brain because 5aR-2 is not present in the brain but it is likely present in the spinal column (although neurosteroids produced elsewhere in the body by 5aR-2 may also have an impact on the brain).

Agree with you 100%. I would love to hear about someone actually getting the spinal cord thoroughly checked out. The only doctor, who I think might be open to ordering a test, would be Dr. Alan Jacob’s(a neuro-endocrinologist who’s on our side apparently) in NYC, or the local university teaching hospital. In my ‘gut’ opinion, I think the problem is also rooted in the spinal cord. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s also some nerve damage. I just wish I had the money and insurance to get it done for myself.

I completed a graduate degree whilst using finasteride, with no issues. My problems only started when I stopped!

I was also doing well, before and during drug use mentally.
Sharp as a tack. My cognitive problem’s also began when I stopped the stupid poison.

[braziliandude]

I had a spinal chord MRI done last week…the results are in, however i have no clue of what that means…i can tell you that it says, little degeneration on the C4 to C5, wait let me copy and paste it on google translator.

Magnetic Resonance, COLUMN TOTAL
COLUMN TOTAL MAGNETIC RESONANCE

method:

Following examination with ESF on T1 and T2. Plans cuts
multiple.

analysis:

CERVICAL SPINE

Bony structures of the usual signal.

Mild degenerative disc changes extending from C3-C4 through C5-C6.

Minimum bulging disc C3-C4, lightly touching the ventral surface of the
dural sac without significant neural compression.

Other topics intervertebral discs.

Spinal cord signal usual.

Intervertebral foramina gauge preserved.

Joints interapophyseal unchanged.

Craniocervical junction without change.

DORSAL COLUMN

Vertebral height and alignment and signal preserved.

Small posterior disc protrusion at T2-T3, T5, T6, T6-T7 and T7-T8, more

prominent at this level, lightly touching the ventral surface of the bag
dural nerve without significant compression.

Spinal cord signal usual.

Spinal canal amplitude preserved.

Intervertebral foramina free.

Joints interapophyseal unchanged.

Paravertebral muscles preserved.

lumbosacral spine

Vertebral height, alignment and signal preserved.

Intervertebral discs of normal signal threads.

Intervertebral foramina gauge preserved.

Joints interapophyseal unchanged.

Paravertebral muscles preserved.

Conus of normal location.

there you go…just got home i was having my knee MRI done…and results are in on march 1, and i brooke my foot going to school this morning so that sucks too!

[braziliandude]

i cant wait to see dr franckevicius again!!!