Final protocol 100% pfs reversal with dht therapy - lastpost

General Discussion
#1841

I have been following this thread and letting it run its course over the past number of weeks/months to see how things go along, and sadly have been disheartened at the amount of misinformation, arguing and egocentric posting from various users.

This forum was started with the goal of being a place of support for men suffering from persistent sexual, physical and mental side effects from Finasteride, to generate social, medical and media awareness about the problem, and hopefully lead to scientific research into the problem.

Thankfully through the hard work of various members, moderators, administrators, doctors and journalists, these efforts have lead to actual research studies at Harvard and Baylor college of medicine (and a new study launching in Italy), numerous media stories on men afflicted by PFS, academic and scientific papers being published, lawsuits against the manufacturer, and labeling changes to the medicine forewarning new users of the drug about some of the potential dangers they may face (ie persistent erectile dysfunction that may not resolve after discontinuation, depression etc). And while much has been achieved, there is still much more to be done in these areas as a collective group.

Unfortunately it has become abundantly clear to me that despite the efforts of those involved to move things forward over time in a logical, level-headed and professional fashion, certain areas of this forum (ie, the THEORIES section) have been a cause for concern over the years. This is due to the constant arguments, strife and generally speaking, attracting various users who have claimed to have the ā€œcureā€ for PFS over time, despite scientific research studies which are designed to uncover the root cause of the problem (so that effective treatments can be developed) have yet to be concluded.

Reading through the THEORIES section is actually quite depressing ā€“ a bunch of red herring, dead-end threads that often put peopleā€™s health, money and safety at risk. Each theory has its own champion, and said proponents often spam their theory it as ā€œTHE CUREā€ for all users across the site, often leading to member in-fighting, discontentment, and worst of all ā€“ lack of consistent, scientifically verifiable and sustained results for members.

Simply put, the endless waste of time, money, energy, emotions, safety and related actions that are spent on theorizing need to be redirected to support the scientific research efforts of the PFS Foundation. We have fought and invested so much over the years to get to this point, to actually have scientific research into persistent Finasteride side effects, to have a non profit organization dedicated to our cause and helping fund these research efforts, to be taken seriously by the scientific community and now the legal communityā€¦ we have achieved so much and yet, some people would rather spend their time debating opinions online instead of participating to help get the studies completed, or generating media and social awareness of the problem, petitioning their health agencies, and other tangible actions in the real world.

I realize some users do not want to ā€œwaitā€ for the PFS Foundationā€™s studies to be completed for the results, and they would rather self-experiment with various drugs and protocols to see if any improvements can be had. I get that. The problem centers around this THEORIES section of Propeciahelp.com being used as a platform for various users over time claiming to have ā€œthe cureā€ for PFS, when in fact we are still trying to understand what Finasteride did to us, at a molecular and biochemical level, so that an effective treatment can hopefully be developed. Any users claiming to have ā€œthe cureā€ PRIOR to the PFS Foundationā€™s published study results (and scientific analysis by research scientists of what the actual root cause of the problem is) is simply stating opinion and conjecture.

Over the years, various users have made such ā€œcureā€ claims and unfortunately some have been misled with false hope and wasted thousands of dollars on expensive treatments, especially out of country (ieā€¦ prostate doctor in Kos, Greeceā€¦ stem cell treatments in China etc) and undergone dangerous medical procedures, with little improvement or even worse, worsening of symptoms and putting their health at risk. In regards to this current thread, all I will say is the protocol and drugs, dosages, methods and information seem to change/conflict on a near daily basis, there has been no use of scientific journal articles as reference to back up points being made, and there is an egocentric and manic tone in the wall-of-text writings of the individual making such claims that makes them seem incredulous, which raises red flags from the beginning.

Suffice to say, I personally have had enough of the outlandish claims, conflicting details, endless arguments, and disruptions on this THEORIES subforum which is distracting from real real-world efforts being completed, such as participation in PFS Foundation funded studies.

Something needs to change.

I have alluded to the closing of this Theories section in the past, a year or two prior to the start of the PFS Foundation studies. This section, while interesting and an example of armchair science and failed red herring/waste of time/money/dangerous theories, has long outlived its expiry date.

That will now be changing. Come 2015, this section will be closed. The time has come to put user-generated theories to rest, and let the PFS Foundation carry out its work scientifically, with our full support.

  • All THEORIES threads will be locked and it will remain as an archive.

  • A disclaimer will redirect users to support the scientific research studies of the PFS Foundation, as undertaken by actual research scientists.

  • NOTE: Users who still wish to debate and argue over armchair theories and that they have ā€œthe cureā€ for PFS can do so on a site created specifically for this ā€“ solvepfs.com

  • NOTE: Users who wish to trial various drug treatments, natural supplements and documenting effects on their symptoms can still do so on this forum in their MEMBER STORY ( viewforum.php?f=3 ) or in the corresponding sections here:

viewforum.php?f=43

Itā€™s unfortunate this step had to be taken but itā€™s been a long while coming and this thread was the final catalyst for me to make this decision. I have been involved with this site since 2006 and in that time I have seen many, many users and theories come and go. We have achieved much in that time and it is a blessing that the PFS Foundation exists, and that actual research studies are being conducted to help determine the root cause of how and why Finasteride has caused these problems in us. We MUST be united and support these efforts, not be divided and distracted by opinions and conjecture.

In that regard, those that wish to continue spending their days theorizing and trying to argue that their theory is ā€œthe cureā€ would best be served by an alternate website to do so.

#1842

Mew, I understand your concern. All I know is I get better every month. Symptoms seem to die off. 2 years ago i never thought things improved, actually the only thing that was said to improve was ā€œcognitiveā€ function. I have seen that to be untrue, as my sexual function has dramatically I proved. I personally only care about the theories and experiments section. If propeciahelp would like to remain a place where people hate their life, cry about merck and complain thatā€™s totaly fine and I get that. I for one want no part of that. I think its depressing and misery loves company. We will move onto solvepfs and continue to try things to improve the condition. I do understand your concern however, itā€™s just a shame the minority of guys have ruined it, not the majority.

#1843

At least jqd has had some progressive influence on the forum.

#1844

Mate, you donā€™t do much to be fair except come on and say how things get better with time. Which for some maybe true. I can t see what positive you d have on solvepfs as you rw unwilling tontry anything aside from trivial stuff like asparagus and a few dabs of progesterone - which caused you to crash.

Good luck on solvepfs. Please report back when you have found a cure.

#1845

Hello Mew,

Thank you for doing this. I believe it is a step in the right direction.

I fear however, that the section you mention below, will morph into the theories section fairly quickly. Users will trial various drugs and theorize on why they did or did not work for them. To combat this, Messiahs who believe they found the cure, would need to be actively banned if their approach is not scientific.

Also pls consider making following changes to the website:

  1. Present current options (foundation, participation in studies and monthly donations, media awareness etc.) more coherently and clearly on one page, with a summary of the research that has been done in the past, and the work you and awor have done to move this community forward. A warning against homebrew and its history on this site could also be included. This page would explain to users how they can best invest their time and money to help move this condition forward. Basically you would adress the community and newcomers. A FAQ list could also be included. (SUMMARY OF OPTIONS, RESEARCH AND WELCOME PAGE).

I know you have a page entitled ā€œThe Post Finasteride Syndromeā€. However I believe it doesnt guide the person affected through the current options and past efforts enough. Also its not personal enough. Its not satisfactory as a introduction to this community. The user in this case is lost and doesnt know where to start, so reverts back to home brew.

  1. Get rid of links to Dr. Goldstein and Dr. Jacobs

  2. Get rid of the suggestion to get extensive blood tests done and replace it with a call for donations.

  3. I know you dont like this idea much, but consider displaying information near the user of whether they have signed up to a monthly donation pledge to the foundation and have up to now fullfilled that peldge. This would raise awareness even further, and closely bind this forum to the foundation. Also it would encourage monthly donations. I know it might be difficult to verify wheter users are donating monthly, however it should be well worth the effort.

Users who wish not to donate dont have to of course.

  1. Display on a studies page the number of participants still needed to complete the study, with contact details of the study organizers. (STUDY PAGE)

I know you have a study page, however it should display current studies and number of participants still needed. If people dont see that the study is lacking participants and this from an official source, they will not feel the need to participate.

In general a more reduced forum, with clear and close ties to the foundation, donations and studies. Also less subsections (The closing of the Theories section is a great move).

Merry Christman and a Happy New Year!

#1846

While Iā€™m still waiting for my Arimidex to come, I am disheartened to read Mewā€™s decision, and will not give up experimenting on the basis of JQD courageous work.

I donā€™t have any expectation from ā€œPFS researchā€ AT ALL. Suffice to look at official research and progress in cancer, so-called AIDS, tinnitus, sclerosis, or other incurable conditions. Oh yeah, great advances in the scientific journals, maybe, but not really in real life. ā€œA cure will be found within the next 5 yearsā€ Thatā€™s what theyā€™ve been saying since the dawn of Big Pharma time.

Iā€™m very sad about this decision , and unfortunately I already saw this kind of censorship in other health boards, and the motives were the same, discrediting any alternative experiment, particularly the successful ones, because mainstream science had not yet found anything. Needless to say, years go by but mainstream science and pharma still offer no solution.

There wonā€™t be any ā€œcureā€ from Big Pharma because they didnā€™t offer any cure for any chronic disease.

Thatā€™s typically what I saw in the other health boards, there was no interest in the fact that some people got better if they used unorthodox methods, their treatments were qualified as dangerous, but mainstream docs prescribing useless ā€œscientifically provenā€ meds (with dangerous side effects) were still promoted. Thatā€™s crazy but welcome to the real world.

we are our only hope.

Thank you JQD, I will report to you my progress or my non progress.

#1847

Are you running it with an AI? If so, which one and how much?

#1848

I donā€™t think it should be closed because, outside of the more outlandish threads, there are others that bring interesting information to the table. Although the foundation does good work, it is not the end all be all of a cure and itā€™s possible it will not bring a functional treatment. If someone finds something that they think could work, they are just not going to post it?

Perhaps make the threads on a per approval basis?

Grant users access, but cut them if they cross the line and claim cure?

Where else can users post information if they believe they have solid information? This type of thing should be shared, but understandably restricted in some way.

#1849

Bryce54, I have run corporations, this is an organization like any other, once you shut down the community its members will disperse to other places, the donations will slowly stop over time and that will be that. RQ confirmed that there were 8 patients seeing Dr Goldstein the day he went, Dr Goldstein told me he has had a lot of success and that the forum comprises only a fraction of PFS cases.
I am basically on a very similar protocol Dr Goldstein prescribes, I have just used test propionate instead of Cypionate, DHT replacement as I originally concluded is what we require. It is the only thing that lowers Neurosteriodal Estradiol and raises DHT, it must be used on testosterone. It will take time for some guys, but should work for most, Dr Goldstein is obviously successfully treating guys, we know of one already who recovered from his protocol.
No one here has ever really correctly used hormones, the reason this foundation got so big and has so many people is due to the forums, a place of sharing ideas and support. Once you close that and send away your ā€œcustomer base,ā€ you lose all the money, it is a shame, but it will occur. Eventually others will start their own foundations, rather than all uniting together, there will be disparity. Most guys in the US with this condition just get treated with hormones and have varying levels of success and improve over time.
Andractim (DHT) is a quick fix while on test, if Dr Goldstein has 8 new patients a day in the US, and all are failures with hormones, why havenā€™t any of them posted here? We know of one success story here who is a patient of Dr Jacobs and has been cured now with Andractim. In the end of my research and experimentation, I conclude Dr Goldstein is where guys should go if they get this. I have spoken to HRT doctors who told me they have had patients with this condition who recover on hormones over time (months or sometimes years). The numbers simply donā€™t add up, if Goldsteinā€™s approach didnā€™t work, there would be scores of unhappy former patients posting here, simply isnā€™t the case.

#1850

Ever heard of something called TRT? HRT? Lots of established science and real-world results behind that, my friend. Thatā€™s all this thread is about - specialized TRT.

This is your site, and your dime. So thank you for providing a forum and all the effort and resources youā€™ve generously contributed. I for one will continue experimenting with TRT, as Iā€™ve wasted almost 10 years of my life to this bullshit, and will not waste another 10. No children. No wife.

JQD is a trailblazer. While he comes off half-cocked and manic some of the time, heā€™s doing work no else here is, trialing substances for good or bad that science is YEARS (if not decades away fromā€¦) and working relentlessly (and intelligently) towards a solution. That you disagree with anecdotal personal trials, thats fine. But thatā€™s not up for you or anyone else to decide what the right path is for anyone else. And if you dropped those blinders for a minute, you would see JQD is providing us with critical information.

All that said, thank you and I respect your efforts. I will continue to trial JQDā€™s methods and post back here, or on another forum. I have JQDā€™s email and will stay in contact with him.

We are all taking chances here, Mew. There are risks to action and also inaction. I ruled out steroids for 9 years, never recovered and wasted all that time. Whether PFS guys recognize inaction is also a risk, thatā€™s up to them.

#1851

PVDL, you are a socialist in Germany, let me explain how capitalism works, you offer a service, and people pay for said service. The service this forum offers is a place for guys with this condition to debate and share ideas, it is actually kept a lot of guys from even going to Dr Goldstein due to people like you telling them it doesnā€™t work. Yet if it doesnā€™t work, where are the 8 patients a day every day of every week? Why arenā€™t they coming here posting about their failures? I only know of one patient of Goldstein who posts here, and he says he is recovered. Dr Goldstein admits that some donā€™t respond, but it seems to be the minority, and I believe they would with injectable DHT (Androstanolone).
All that is going to happen after the theories section shuts down is this Foundation will no longer provide a free service where people come for support, debate, or discussion. They will not be continuously told that Dr Goldstein or Jacobs cannot help them, they will go to Jacobs, if he canā€™t help, they will go to Goldstein, and get better. The ones who donā€™t will be a minority, but I read only ONE report of a guy on HRT for years with PFS and after 2 years he responded 50% and after 4 years recovered. So what is going to entice PFS sufferers to come here when there is no longer a place to be a community?
In a year or so the money will stop, other foundations will start, or dr Goldsteinā€™s practice will just get even larger than it already is. If Dr Goldstein gets 8 new PFS patients a day, letā€™s say only 300 days of the year instead of 350 to account for holidays and such. That is 2,400 PF patience a year, the amount of US users here is 630, most of which are not active, the ones like me who claim success with similar protocols are ostracized and attacked. Mathematics and logic explain the situation quite clearly, the foundation is great, great for what it is doing, but most people want treatments now, not in 10 years.
Keep your hopes up buddy, This foundation is just going to shrink as Dr Goldsteinā€™s practice expands, he has a MASSIVE amount of PFS patients that dwarf this forum (Dr Jacobs too). All foundations and organizations have to encourage people to donate, no one comes here for the members sections, they come for the theories section, you can disagree all you want, but the numbers speak for themselves. I originally discounted Goldstein, but I ended up at his very same approach after 6 months (just with a better testosterone protocol).

#1852

Tumble, I cursed out this entire forum when I figured out how to get Masteron to work and realized DHT works, you will too when you come to this conclusion having wasted 9 years. Most guys in your shoes in the US go to an anti-aging doctor and are fixed quickly, if not, just order Andractim gel. Keep in contact with me my friend, if I am banned, you have my email. I will be happy to continue to help you off the site or at solvepfs.com.
I m sorry but it is a perpetuated lie that this is untreatable, the numbers prove it, 2400 patients a year Dr Goldstein gets? Where are all the horror stories? This is a site made up mostly of guys who do not have access to HRT or are afraid to go on it, or live too far to see Dr Goldstein, but most will respond with Andractim ontop of HRT.

#1853

In case I get banned, I want to post that Andractim has now surpassed any of the other forms of DHT I have used, my initial trial with it was completely wrong. I didnā€™t use it right, I have doubts a gel could be so potent, I have not been able to tolerate this much testosterone off of an AI since I had PFS. I have only used Andractim once (yesterday), small dose, I have found stories on the internet of some guys actually reversing PFS with high doses of Andractim (when the first got it). One guy crashed from Avodart and used high doses of Andractim for a few months and thwarted PFS.

BTW, if I get banned Mew, I want to thank you for all you have done, I do understand why you are doing what you are doing, I am just a business guy, so I think it is a bad idea from a business perspective, but as before I have a great admiration for you. I have been at this for 6 months, and this thread started with the same conclusion it is ending with, DHT replacement.

#1854

I was afraid to go on HRT. My GP wanted to put me on it. I was convinced a herbal solution could work (since one had long ago), but was never able to replicate it. Yes, just emailed you. Thanks for your continued efforts.

#1855

Where are you applying the gel? Using in conjunction with T? DHT is also suppressive. So, as you say, the gel needs to be supplemented with T, otherwise, all the gel provides is DHT (no T). Using in conjunction with an AI?

#1856 
I was afraid for years to go on it while on finasteride, it changed my life till Avodart fucked me, and Andractim seems to be giving it back to me without having to follow a super complicated protocol. As for where I apply it, a pea size (don't follow the instructions on the box), we need a very low dose, a pea size on each side of your torso, rub it in after a shower (not before). DHT has a 5 day half life, takes time to build up in your system, it should take 3 weeks and your body will start using it fully, it will not work off of testosterone injections. You must not use more than 100MG of testosterone, use propionate 20mg every other day, cypionate is too estrogenic, if you must use a long acting ester use Enanthate, keep the dose low. This is not just my conclusion, but the same conclusion everyone else has made (including Goldstein). I believe he prescribes about 100mg of cypionate a week, but things would be easier with prop as I have explained.
#1857

Itā€™s a shame to shut down the most progressive thread in this forum. And trying to keep people from seeing Dr. Jacobs and Dr. Goldstein. Ludicrous. I thought this forum is about people helping people and JQD is the most prominent user helping people here. Obviously this forum has a different agenda. Good luck waiting things out ā€¦

#1858

Ok cool. Check this out:

ā€œBecause there is a high concentration of 5-AR enzyme in scrotal skin, DHT levels increase more after scrotal application than after application to other areasā€
testocreme.com/about_drk.html

Lots of good, cited info on that site. Will read more when I get back from the gym.

#1859

JQD heres an idea for you.
Just so you donā€™t have to keep repeating yourself because there are pages and pages of you stating your beliefs.
I donā€™t know how you have the patience to do it but I commend you.

why not just take PMā€™s from your own personal select group of ppl you choose to work with and not have to deal with anything else.
extract the cancers dude.

there are def ppl on her that want to work with you and you know I am definitely willing to listen and consider
all of your experience and knowledge.

Id rather talk to the guy who sounds like he knows what heā€™s doing than talk about giving donations. Not that I donā€™t believe in money and research I just donā€™t think feable amounts of money are gonna get us anywhere fast.

I think its better to experiment on our own and if enough momentum gets behind a solid theory, in a yearā€™s time everyone with this condition
can be on it and feel better a lot faster. and if it doesnā€™t work, well then you will be where you were to begin with.

I just donā€™t understand why all of this is happening. I for one will be messaging you if you are still willing to help me because I have many questions if youre willing to listen.

Iā€™m on the brink of truly turning my life around right know.
I just got promoted at my new job after 3 months and just met who I believe is the girl im going to marry.
But I still need help up over the hill and of you can offer me the help of your knowledge and persistence then you got a friend for life sir.
What do you say?

#1860 
Absolutely, PM me and I will give you my email, and order Andractim immediately, google it, it will take a month to get there, I didn't want to have to go on DHT (an illegal steroid) and be dependent on it for who knows how long. I have reached my limits, having the knowledge that DHT DOES reverse PFS while on testosterone, I have taken the plunge. This is no surprise, the only surprise is that a simple gel would be so potent, I was too arrogant to even consider a gel would be strong enough. 
I have already passed the threshold of what any other treatment has done, never gone this long without an AI or PFS symptoms while on a high dose of test. I am breaking out like I did pre-PFS, that has not occurred once since this started, I will deal with that, fortunately I used to run a cosmetic dermatology company. Order this shit and be done with PFS, I have said this from day one, ever since I tried DHT, it works, I just needed a method that works. 
If it doesn't work on a guy, I think in time it will, you must be on test, keep the doses no higher than I stated. I would be less optimistic if Dr Goldstein wasn't having success with it, that means that if it is shutting down endogenous DHT, it is strong enough to replace it. I will PM you my email and be happy to help  you, in the meantime I will stock pile this shit, looks like an injection may not be required. I hope others respond as well, but it seems like only a very small minority don't respond.