Final protocol 100% pfs reversal with dht therapy - lastpost

General Discussion
#1821

Swill, Funnily enough I just got a response back from the Institute for Sexual Medicine offering me a free 10 minute consultation with Dr Goldstein. It said that I would not be able to receive medical care unless I went to San Diego… that’s a long and expensive trip to potentially be of no use to me… :confused: as you said, where are the guys championing these doctors? Where are the success stories? Do they not know about this forum?

Part of me wonders if they know that we’re already down and out and the vultures are now circling.

#1822

yes things can get alot worse by tinkering with hormones i must admit,i was better off before i tried progesterone thats for sure,my eyesight is dodgy now,the hairloss it gave me was unreal,even two patches on my shins which has never grown back,if my sex drive was at 5% before progesterone now it is none existent,i certainly wouldnt try out hes protocols myself i learned my lesson but if others want to let them get on i say,you never know they just might stumble onto something,im sure the thread will fizzle out soon if no one gets any positive results etc,you asked would i stick around if i were 100%,well yes i would stick around and try and help people if i knew how to fix this…

#1823

Another moron on the short bus, eh.

HRT is not dangerous. If HRT is dangerous, why is it a standard medical treatment in the US and Europe? T + an AI has not been tried “repeatedly already”. Read that 10 times Corky, and let it sink in. All that’s been tried here are various forms of Testosterone without an AI. Are we clear? Or are you still drooling?

When you get a chance, please tell us why Testosterone Replacement Therapy is dangerous? Using your vast medical knowledge, of course?

#1824

Tumble you are delusional if you think t therapy with an ai has not been tried. Learn how to use the search function.

#1825

Tumbleweeds, your posts are becoming plain desperate now. People have been posting within this very thread about their negative experiences with JustQuitDut’s home-brew treatments. But you probably just haven’t spotted those posts yet. I don’t blame you though, they are difficult to see amongst JustQuitDut’s prolifically bizarre and lengthy rants. He comes across like a smacked-out Cornholio impersonator, raving wildly about whatever thought has just popped into his head two seconds ago. Don’t let that prevent you from putting your faith into The Latest Forum Messiah, though. Or should that be The King of Propeciahelp, as he has described himself.

#1826

I can speak from some experience with Goldstein and Jacobs, as I’ve seen them both. First, to be clear: neither is an “anti-aging doctor.” Jacobs is a neuroendocrinologist with his own one-man practice in NYC. Goldstein’s background is in urology and gynecology and now runs a practice aimed at addressing a variety of sexual health issues. In terms of my experiences with them:

I first saw Jacobs in September 2012, several months after PFS began. I then saw him regularly for the next year and have continued to consult with him periodically. I was initially very encouraged. He spoke of finding common abnormalities in PFS guys’ bloodwork and of successfully treating many of them. Specifically, he pointed to my extremely low bioavailable T level (it was in the bottom 5 percentile) and set about trying to raise it. We started with Clomid for 2 weeks. It didn’t budge my bioavailable T much, but my estradiol level soared by 400%. Then we switched to T injections, and as I have written here, the first one worked. It was an amazing feeling, having my body suddenly turn back on, and I can’t adequately describe the joy and relief I felt. In fact, I even wrote a letter to him thanking him for giving me my life back, but before I could send it, the T stopped working. Over the next 9 months, we experimented with higher T doses, more frequent T doses, more aggressive AI use etc, but nothing seemed to work. He also theorized that stress and anxiety could be issues; that my profound anxiety and depression might be putting some kind of mental block either on my body’s production of T or it’s ability to process it. I’m still not sure on exactly how that theory worked, but he prescribed Benzos in an effort to relax me and urged me to try to live life as normally as possible and to try to break out of whatever cycle I was in. It was in this time that I tried to date again, with a pretty bad result. Eventually, I concluded that Jacobs didn’t have the answer for me and that we had gone in one big circle. But I don’t feel he was taking advantage of me or anything like that; I think he’s genuinely trying to help and is very open to new approaches. Thus I’ve stayed in touch with him.

One more thing I think I should add about Jacobs: JQD continues to write that Jacobs is “prescribing” his protocol. I think this is misleading. As far as I know, Jacobs is simply willing to prescribe the Propionate form of T upon request in some cases. That’s how I got mine: I raised it with him, he said he’d researched it and concluded it wouldn’t harm me and that he’d be OK writing a script – and curious to see if I got a different result from it. (I have since reported back to him that I don’t feel I’m responding any differently to it than Cypionate.) Anyway, this is all a far cry from “prescribing” the JQD protocol(s) we read about here. He’s certainly not recommending, let alive prescribing, the type of AI use JQD is promoting. And when I ran JQD’s theory past him, Jacobs didn’t endorse it at all. He didn’t denounce it either. He simply said it was someone’s guess. That’s it. I feel I should point this out because JQD makes it sound as if Jacobs has endorsed and is on board with everything he says here. Obviously, I don’t know what JQD’s conversations with Jacobs are like, but as a Jacobs patient I can tell you that he is absolutely not prescribing the JQD protocol. All he has said is that he’s willing to write a Propionate script. And this is hardly uncharted territory with him. Several times I’ve identified drugs that I thought might help me and Jacobs - after researching them - has been willing to prescribe them for me. I certainly wouldn’t have said in those instances that he was “prescribing” my protocol.

As for Goldstein: I made the trip to SD to see him last month. I found his approach different from Jacobs, who is primarily interested in T levels and T/E ratios. Goldstein, by contrast, is much more interested in 5ar activity (or lack thereof) and the effects of low DHT and an abnormal T/DHT ratio on the body – sexual function, body composition, skin issues, depression/cognition etc. He was upfront with me about not being able to explain it all and said he’s learning more all the time and adjusting his recommendations accordingly. Interestingly, he told me I was his fifth Propecia patient JUST THAT DAY – and that he ended up seeing a total of eight before the day was over. He has a PowerPoint on how he believes Propecia affects us and why we’re experiencing these issues. It was fascinating and a far more comprehensive, all-encompassing presentation than I’ve gotten from any other doctor I’ve seen. I encouraged him to have someone tape him giving it and to post the video online. I imagine it would start a lot of discussion.

Anyway, Goldstein homed in on my consistently low DHT level. I have 2 years worth of bloodwork, and it shows that even when I raise my T level to the top/above range, my DHT never gets past midrange and the T/DHT ratio remains out of whack. This is the basis of his recommendation that I use very low-dose T with a very low daily dose of Andractim. He has many more recommendations, and I walked out if there with about 10 different prescriptions, but I think that’s the heart of it. In terms if success, I can say that one user here has experienced it with Goldstein – towm8er. He has some very interesting and thorough posts on here explaining exactly what he did – but I can say that he does feel the combo of low dose T and low-dose Andractim helped considerably. I asked Goldstein how many guys he treats successfully; he said 50-60 percent. Note that he wasn’t telling me he cured 50-60 percent. I believe he was just saying that they significantly improved. Take that for what it’s worth.

Anyway, that was just over a month ago and I can’t say that I’ve tried his protocol since then. Instead, for my own reasons, I went down the JQD road. But that’s a whole other matter. (And fwiw, I continue to feel zero from Suspension/AIs.)

#1827

Please post the links. I’d love to see them. I’ve spent more then a hundred hours on this forum and have not read more then one protocol that involved an AI paired with Testosterone.

As for throwing out the baby with the bath water after one dose of Arimidex 1mg…buddy…how short-sighted can a person be? Obviously 1mg is too much for you, so take less…?

You missed the whole point of this thread. T:E ratio is critical to healthy libido and erectile function. If E is too high or too low = sexual dysfunction and low mood. 1mg of Arimidex likely crushed your E too low. Then you wrote the entire framework off as junk and spent the next ten days crying and flailing your arms about in hysterics warning everyone off the protocol…AFTER ONE PILL…LOL

Its comical. Listen, herbal products take up to three weeks to kick in. Three weeks. These things take time. A person needs to trial protocols and tinker with them for at least a month before they can draw any conclusions. One pill is nothing… Notice how HRT doctors take months trialing various androgens at various doses to find the sweet spot? Why do you suppose that is?

#1828

I keep telling you I had your same problems and same test levels from Finasteride before I took Avodart, testosterone fixed everything till I crashed from Avodart

#1829

I was on those hormones for 5 years, they stopped working when I took Avodart, I couldn’t figure out why for months, now 6 months into it I still don’t respond normally to testosterone. If I did, I wouldn’t be here, and I wouldn’t have had to come up with a special protocol. I have tried to remain optimistic throughout the process, but this forum is really not a place for optimism, nor is it a place for emotional support.
This is where you go when yo are ready to off yourself, if PFS doesn’t do it, guys like you will push you over the limit, it is internet bullying, just as bad is anywhere else. It is now almost 7 months and I still don’t respond to test, I was able to intermittently respond for a night using HGH only to crash the next day (managed to respond 3 times once) . With my specific protocol I can respond, I chose to share it with others here to help them, no other motive.
When you choose to help people that are strangers you take a risk, I took that risk, I should have just posted my experiences here, but my intentions have always been just to help others. Since I have managed to reverse about 90% of PFS with hormones, I wanted to help others, if 20% of the guys here respond like I did, great. If they don’t then there is more data here for guys in the future who consider trying things.
I also want to add that coming here has made me realize that the entire 13 years I was on Finasteride, I had some form of PFS, a mild version of everything here, anxiety, depression, lack of libido, mental fog. I got extremely bloated when I started test (which changed my life), ihatepropecia has the same problem now. I never could figure out what caused those problems, I always thought there was just something wrong with me, or my hormones declined quickly. After I took Avodart I crashed and have been where I am since, but being on hormones was something I was on (the protocol PVDL quotes) for about 4 years before I tried Avodart
What happened after I crashed from Avodart was that the hormones I was on stopped working, over the next few months I lost about 25 pounds in muscle. I had no idea that all that anxiety was what I figured it out to be, I was also a lot happier not reading the posts on here, I got too involved with this forum, that I agree. It is going to be hard to leave, but I have mentioned I am getting to a point where I can move on with my life with this protocol. I just thought finishing these experiments might help others in the future, from what I have learned from ihatepropecia, I will prob have to be on a special protocol like this long term (if not forever).
supplementing DHT has always reversed everything, so I am very much excited about Andractim actually doing more than I originally experienced. It seems I was on a lot of testosterone when I tried it before, and didn’t give it a chance, trying to remain positive, we will see.

#1830

The only non-responder on this thread to my knowledge is RQ. He’s the only guy that’s tried JQD’s protocol. However, he is willing to go on and try a different method. That’s great and fine. I’ve said many times there may be nonresponders.

Listen, you and your buddies are cry-baby whiners. You give up so easily. I’ll try JQD’s method for the next year. And you know what? It may not work. It may be a total failure. But I’m fine with that. I’m willing to try the protocol because its logical with good science behind it, and I’m willing to invest the time necessary to give it a good shot. Read that last part again.

Why do you suppose HRT doctors take months tinkering with doses and various androgens, trying to find the sweet spot for each patient? Because that’s what it takes, dummy. None of these protocols are overnight cures. It takes time finding the right androgen, at the right dose, with the right amount of AI. It’s that simple.

#1831

duplicate

#1832

duplicate

#1833

Thanks for giving us this information, much appreciated. Do you remember enough of what Goldsteins theory was to explain it here?

#1834

.

#1835

JQD is a liar, as has been proven over and over again.

I cant believe anybody would believe a word he says.

#1836

Towm8r sees Goldstein and has had good things to say about him. Out of all the Doctors trying to help I think he is very credible. I think he supports the foundation. That said he has not successfully reversed or cured anyone. None of these doctors have. His protocols are posted all over the board. Low dose of T, Cialis, DHT gel, and Wellbutrin ect. Goldstein’s in person evaluation will confirm your lack of sensitivity but you already knew that. It just so happens that JQD’s protocol is pretty similar at this point.

Awor had stated all the money spent on blood work is a waste and all the money spent on PFS docs is a waste. That being the case why don’t they rewrite the FAQ’s to reflect that. I have wasted allot of money this year on doctors and blood work and really didn’t get anywhere. Why don’t they re-tool this site to reflect that reality? Take down the PFS doctors information and just redirect people to the studies?

That said the Testosterone I have been taking has not cured me. It has given me a bit of an energy boost. I think a normal guy would be felling really good. I ordered the DHT gel. I want to see if it helps at all.

#1837

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

While they are at it, they should encourage monthly donations. Also add beside each user name if the user has signed up to a monthly donation programm.

When somebody joins this site, they should display a page where the current status of PFS research is displayed. A realistic overview of the options available (i.e. studies and donations).

On the study page, the list of participants needed to complete the study and contact information should be displayed.

1 Like
#1838

Day 2 on Andractim, apparently ihatepropecia (as I suspected) did not give it the proper chance, guys like he and I laugh at gels, so I gave it another chance. It seems to be at least working to kill estrogen very potently, I now have switched back to propionate and much prefer it. Suspension may be good for some guys, gave me great gains, but no good for me emotionally, DHT has a 5 day half life, I wrote the company using Andractim and asked them about the half life of their product. Apparently it is the same as DHT, this means that the more we use Andractim, the more it builds up our DHT supply.
So my current protocol now is 20mg of testosterone propionate every other day, Andractim (now) daily (using the 2 pea sized amounts, one on each side of my rib cage). I am not sure why the low dose, perhaps so we don’t shut our own production down, normal guys use a lot more for gyno, they apply 3 or 4X that amount several times a day I believe. I believe DHT may play a part in recovery based on the story of JN injecting it, Towm8r and CDnuts, all of them used DHT and recovered after. The fact that DHT reverses PF symptoms is no surprise to me, it does not work off of exogenous testosterone.
If you use Andractim off of Exogenous testosterone it will just shut down your own testosterone production (and DHT). Also, it must be given time, any time I have used any form of DHT, it has taken 3 weeks for my body to recognize it. After 3 weeks it seems my body starts to use it, so you guys who give up easy, give Andractim a month. The initial results I have seen are the calming feeling of lowering estrogen, it is so potent at killing estrogen that I wonder if I will even have to taper off Letro. All that can go wrong here now is that it will suppress my endogenous DHT and my estrogen will continue to rise and this will all become a disaster. After speaking to the doctors who run the company, I am a little more optimistic. When I tried proviron in the past, it was on a very high dose of testosterone, but apparently that is different from actual DHT, Andractim seems to be androstanolone in a gel form.
Test levels have to remain stable, suspension is too up and down, so as part of this protocol I recommend propionate 20mg every other day with Andractim (two pea sized doses), one on each side of the rib cage (as Goldstein recommends). It is too soon to tell, preliminary results are impressive (but they also were with Proviron). As for restoring natural testosterone, once everything is stable, I will be going on a new drug body builders are using that is non-estrogenic (unlike HCG) and actually blocks estrogen, it is called Torem.
I will continue to update, but the protocol is turning out to be propionate and andractim. I don’t recommend cypionate for a few reasons, cypionate is a huge dose at once that then peaks on day 2 and declines as every day passes. The problem with cypionate (aside from it being VERY estrogenic) is that the testosterone levels will not be stable as propionate. Propionate will keep everything the same every day. If any long acting ester is used down the line, I recommend Enanthate.
I also recommend eventually going on HGH precursors, I suggest you google and read about Sermorelin/GHRP2/GHRP6, it is possible that is one of the reasons I am recovering quicker than others. HGH is a hormone responsible for healing, athletes often use it to heal from injuries fast. It is being used by anti-aging endocrinologists now, and has been in hollywood for 2 decades, the results in people’s lives are amazing. Even Dr Oz is on it and recommending it, so read up on it.

Here is the email I got from Andractim, I am inquiring about an injection, but his first email basically told me they don’t have it and won’t, but I am asking to see if his manufacturer could do something (I doubt it though, as it is illegal there).

 All that being said, I don't care about my theories or someone else's theories, I know PVDL is on a mission to trash me, that is his prerogative, I have had success with hormones in reversing PFS. I am documenting my experiences to help others who have this horrible condition, so that they might have a chance at reversing this without spending a fortune with doctors. I have a feeling that due to the nature of how testosterone propionate works, it is the perfect combo with andractim. It is possible cypionate is too estrogenic for some guys, and due to the nature of how a long ester injections works.  You get a HUGE amount of estrogen all at once every day for a week, vs dividing the injection into days and small doses. 
 This has been a very long and difficult journey, and it seems like it may be finally ending at Andractim, my last symptoms were my mood and estrogen control, if things continue, this will be it. I am not sure if I will need an AI or how much I will need, so far I have not needed one, but I am sure I will need at least some Arimidex. If you read through this forum, it doesn't seem there is too much conversation about Andractim, and I have not seen where it was used properly. It must be a low dose of test, only 2 pea sized doses of Andractim (it seems), and you must give it days to accumulate in your system. The option is always available to apply more Andractim for some of us who need it. 
I am starting to come to the realization that restoring my own DHT is not something I want to wait out, the final protocol indeed will probably be this. Again, Cypionate is difficult to use with PFS, high doses would make it very difficult to respond (since Andractim is not an injection), so we want to create the same environment every day. 1 injection of propionate (daily or every other day), the andractim daily, and perhaps some arimidex. I will post about keeping endogenous testosterone under control IF this protocol pans out, again, I don't have my hopes up with a gel, but if it lasts more than 3 days it will be a big deal. Then we give it 3 weeks and if it continues on then this is it (at least for me).

====Andractim email========
Further to your earlier message.

I have heard of Dr.Goldstein from quite a number of patients in the past few months, though I have had no personal contact with him. He is clearly a man rather ahead of his time.

Let me correct one false impression,… this application is in no way ‘ours.’ Some years ago when we started using DHT we had offers from a number of manufacturers. We chose to use this product as it is more reasonably priced, has a good shelf life especially in warmer climates,… and it works in a useful spectrum of conditions. I only wish it were ‘ours’ but the truth is that it is owned and manufactured by a small but well-esteemed laboratory with plants in both Belgium and France.

Another error is in the screen shot you included. It does not come from the clinic. [I still advise caution in this direction].

I am a clinician, and I like to think I have considerable experience therein BUT I am no biochemist. I can enquire further details from the laboratory people of the manufacturers but that will have to wait until this current period is over. It seems to me that the entirety of Europe is on a near-endless holiday over the Christmas and New Year period. That said, the only active ingredient in Andractim is DHT and the half-life thereof will be the same [after absorption] whichever route is used. The main problem I think you will find is that whichever product and entry route you use you are still likely to find the ‘threshold’ to be a barrier thus making costly wastage a real difficulty.

One final thing to pass on to your clients,… here at the clinic we offer a consultation facility. Using this any patient is welcome to correspond with one of our doctors about any relevant medical matter. Of course that is no substitute for a real, live doctor on the spot but for those without such an option, or who are uneasy about speaking to someone they know in confidence, it can prove very useful. There is no charge for this entirely free service.

Hope all that helps.

Best regards
Steven R

#1839

I’ll ask again because I don’t care about fights. I wanna understand what a person who study hormones think about this recovery, one guy said it was time. That’s clearly not the case because I responded too if you read until the last line.

Jqd, since you like to study hormones, could you tell me what do you think is behind these recoveries?

Light at the end protocol: tongkat ali, maca, selegiline, progesterone cream.
What he felt until cured: ups and downs until he got 100% and I emailed him and he is still 100% even more than a year without any supplement, medication, hormone.

Beekay protocol: lots of test boosters, clomid 25mg, tamoxifen 20mg, progesterone cream, pregnenolone pills.
What he felt: i don’t know if it was ups and downs, he is 95% cured he just feels that he need a little more penis sensitivity. He also tried hcg before and felt nothing, then he tried with the protocol and felt incredible.

Elb protocol: 7 test boosters, progesterone cream, vitamin b12, DIM
What he felt: ups and downs, he would crash if he drinks and smoke weed (which one or do you think both would cause a crash?) cdnuts said that he would feel able to smoke weed and drink heavy just when he got cured. He tried progesterone alone and felt worse, then he tried with his protocol all together and got cured.

Apr1989: Triptorelin and tribulus
What he felt: triptorelin gave him excellent testosterone and estrogen levels, but felth nothing, then he used tribulus, felt ups and downs and now without tribulus he feels 90% cured.

Cdnuts: Androhard, pct, test boosters.
What he felt: ups and downs and now he doesn’t feel any estrogen problems, maybe tinnitus that comes and goes sometimes, I would say when he train hard or drink too much.

Hopingformore: Tried everything, hcg, tamoxifen, novedex xt, arimidex, tribulus.
What he felt: better just on tribulus but effects would disappear, then he took a high dosage and tappered off and got cured like he would’ve never touched propecia.

Letsconvenience: I don’t know exactly he tried many things, but to recover I think he did test boosters, ox bile, zinc, to remove excess copper thus estrogen.
What he felt: ups and downs until completely cured.

One guy from Brazil that I talked: everything including proviron, deca, all kinds of testosterone, arimidex, letrozole, prolactin inhibitors, masteron, the list is extensive.
What he felt: ups and downs until cured he said the same thing Apr1989 said, tribulus restored the androgen receptors and he was feeling better after each cycle of tribulus.

Please I’d like to read your opinion on each protocol.

I took progesterone first and felt worse, less sensitivity, depression, less powerful orgasm, then I increased a lot my tribulus and felt 70% cured, then I felt the down but with a better base line that I lost by using progesterone cream, drinking and smoking weed, just like Elb.

#1840

Hey Brazilianguy, I am sorry but I don’t have the time to respond to your post, I am trying to start minimizing my time here as I am getting better and better. I am just posting about my experiences and protocols, thanks.