Fellas where can I purchase Aramidix and Aromasin online without a prescription? I live in Canada…
Pm me and I’ll give you some sites, not allowed to post them in the forum
I think every 2 to 3 days is better, every day worked before I set myself back to square one with dht use (which was like taking another finasteride essentially). So I recommend every 2 to 3 days of propionate use rather than daily, I feel the estrogen is easier to control and the results better this way.
Perfect gent that is a classic estrogen dominance sign, that’s exactly what happens to me when my estrogen spikes, you must be suffering with panic, anxiety and depression and not even realize it’s all from estrogen and not your situation. 1 arimidex would change things quite a bit ever hour till you feel better, off of testosterone you prob don’t need too much.
Test prop will help boost you back up.
I agree with you, but I if I endorce it and people end up with low estrogen or whatever, they will trash the protocol and ruin it for others, so I must stick to what worked. I am curious how aromasin works a lone, do let us know, that will be more difficult though. Remember that all that estrogen you are killing is lost testosterone and dht your body is converting to estrogen, so you are be definition low on test and dht, that’s why you really want to replace it.
JQD, can you email me some site where I can get these supplies too please? Want to run your protocol of test prop, aromasin, adex and hcg. Thank you very much. God I hope this works…I can’t take much more of this …this is no life. Already lost 11 months
So I’ve been following this thread closely because I’m very interested in the theories behind this approach. And I’ve also been responding occasionally, because I’m having trouble squaring my own experiences/protocols with some of JQD’s claims. I’ve previously taken T and used Aromasin, without any effect.
But in light of this post, I decided to try an experiment. I’ve resumed using Aromasin aggressively – 25mg/daily for the last week. Then, yesterday, I tried an injection of testosterone. Now, it’s not the Propionate version that JQD talks about. But still, it was a relatively small dose of testosterone administered with aggressive estrogen control. In fact, I even took a second 25mg of Aromasin both yesterday and today, to combat estrogen even more. But so far … same as always. No noticeable improvement. Nothing.
Now, you could say the issue here is not using Propionate. Maybe, and I’m willing to try it if/when I get my hands on it. But, at some point, testosterone is testosterone. And I find it hard to believe that the difference between using T-cypionate with Aromasin and T-propionate with Aromasin is the difference between feeling nothing and feeling a shocking and dramatic reawakening of sexual energy. (And I will add: Dr. Jacobs, mentioned often in this post, is someone I’ve seen quite a bit throughout the past two years, and he claims – and continues to claim – that numerous PFS guys have recovered just fine with him using non-Propionate testosterone, as long as estrogen is controlled.)
My sense continues to be that this approach is working great for JQD and could well work for others. By all means try. But my own experience tells me that for me – and probably others here – this is not a simple issue of estrogen/testosterone balance and other issues are involved. In my case, for instance, there’s reason to suspect adrenal does play a role. Exactly how and why, I have no fucking clue, but there are several things that point in that direction. But I won’t get into that here.
Recent quitter, what a coincidence, we must have the same exact condition because I also did not respond to testosterone cypionate and enanthate with aromasin even 2 x a day!! Even with arimidex added in, the estrogen was just too high. if any other form of testosterone worked someone would have fucking recovered by now!!! The reason you aren’t responding is the same reason I’m not responding. And arimidex only works so much, it has a peak, twice a day doesn’t seem to do too much more. The only way I responded to cypionate or enanthate was taking 1mg of arimidex every hour till I felt better then felt test.
This thread is not about using an old protocol, if you want to experiment with an old protocol that we all know doesn’t work please post elsewhere and stop sabotaging a treatment for pfs for others,
Thanks
Yes, I agree it’s superior to go your route. Guys with low T and higher estrogen will benefit just from an AI (although a slower route). Guys with both low T and low E will likely be harmed. These guys need the exogenous T. Most guys won’t get bloodwork so best to play it safe and stick to a protocol that’s been proven.
My T levels came back bottom 15th percentile. Estrogen, I don’t know. Never checked. Boners are very hard already. Still on the numb side. Libido is still low. I usually can barely maintain a boner so this is encouraging.
Honestly, I think what PFS is - In a small percentage of guys, the body recalibrates it’s homeostatic point for Testosterone and estrogen ratios after fin takes out DHT. DHT being the bodys natural anti-estrogen. IOW, PFS guys are very reliant on DHT to govern estrogen, and when it gets taken out, the body quickly resets to this new level of higher estrogen and lower testosterone (and lower DHT), and uses that as the “new normal”. We are definitely the minority of users, which leads me to suspect PFS guys have a sensitive endocrine system or less resilient. Most guys will take fin, and rebound quickly and be fine after. No sexual side effects. Their bodies “remembered” their original T:E homeostatic point and quickly returned there. My 2 cents.
This is also true for bodybuilders/steroid users. After cycle, some guys dont manage estrogen, and their bodies get “stuck” at the higher estrogen / lower testosterone levels. IOW, even after many months to years, their bodies “forget” what their original healthy T:E homeostatic point was, and maintain their new, unhealthy T:E levels = sexual side effects. I think this is really just a symptom of some physiologies that are more susceptible to hormonal disruption, then others.
And no testosterone is not testosterone when its being released 24/7 into a body that doesn’t have enough 5ar enzymes to reduce it to dht and starts aromatizing it. Then the estrogen shuts down your male hormones, no it’s not the same. Propionate dissipates quickly so it makes controlling the estrogen possible. Please take your adrenal theories and movie them to the parasite theory section.
If you aren’t going to follow the protocol and plan to use an old method I specifically stated will not work then do it elsewhere. Cypionate and enanthate will not work with pfs for the reasons I stated over and fucking over omg some of you guys can be so fucking frustrating.
Cypionate and enanthate stay in your system and your body can’t control the estrogen release, no amount of AI’s would work or we would all be cured long ago. Injecting cypionate or enanthate is like injecting estrogen. So while I applaud you for your experiment of using an old protocol that doesn’t work and aggravating me and possibly sabotaging the recoveries of other people with your brilliant and impressive findings. I think that your goal is to hopefully try to find a way to prove this doesn’t work to save yourself the aggravation of actually trying it. If you are interested in getting better though, propionate at a low dose every other day with aromasin 25mg a day and arimidex every hour of you feel crash like symptoms (which is estrogen). I have so far found no way to control estrogen from
Cypionate or enanthate at any doses even low doses, if I do I will let you know, that’s why I have been using propionate. Aromasin doesn’t work much after 1 dose, it even may cancel out the first dose. Adrenal problems are secondary from having this condition untreated over time. I respond exactly as you do and everyone here to test, I have reversed it in a few people now. Adrenal problems is quackery
No one here will recover, people have they haven’t been to this forum, because someone here like recent quitter will ruin it for everyone. Then go back to the parasite or adrenal theory. dht is required to control estrogen and when your body is converting test to estrogen instead of dht because you don’t have enough 5ar enzymes then taking 1 aromasin isn’t going to do shit. You would need a consistent steady stream of an AI like if you were producing dht. Otherwise you need a form
Of test that releases test then dissipates to give your body a fighting chance with AI’s
Hold on. I’ve been very respectful of you in all of these posts and have made it clear that I’m interested in what you’re saying. But I have to say: You really have been all over the place on this. You are now telling me that nothing will work except this exact protocol, but you’ve previously advocated numerous other protocols – and claimed to experience dramatic results from them. So pardon me for being a little skeptical.
But what you’re saying really doesn’t add up. You’re saying that the estrogen that results from a single injection of cypionate is so overpowering that it immediately overwhelms your body even if you’re simultaneously taking massive amounts of Aromasin? But that if you just take Propionate, everything will work? That’s a reach. More realistically, you’re making a good case for why propionate is the optimal type of T to use – that it clears the system faster, is less estrogenic etc. Fine. But the difference between nothing and everything? I don’t think so. Remember: My first T shot did work on me for about 2 weeks – and you claim that that’s because it took two weeks for estrogen to build up and counteract it. But now you’re saying no – even with huge amounts of Aromasin and a small injection of Cypionate, I should feel nothing because Cypionate is so estrogenic that it’s already overwhelmed my body, to the point that I feel zero effect from it? Even though I’ve taken about 75mg of Aromasin in the last 24 hours?
I’ve seen this in many threads on here. Someone finds a protocol that delivers results for them. But then when others try to replicate it and fail, they have to strain with increasing absurdity to attribute the failure to some shortcoming in following the protocol. You’re invested in telling everyone you have the cure. Be a little more humble: You have a protocol that has worked for you and that may work for others – but you are in no position to tell people here that you have THE cure. Not nearly enough people have done this and achieved success with it. You ought to grapple with the possibility that PFS seems to hit different guys in different ways, and that things that help some have no effect for others, and things that have no effect on some may help others.
That said, I’ll repeat what I’ve said: I am glad, honestly, that you’re doing well with this and that you’ve shared everything with such detail. It’s invaluable to have people experimenting and sharing. Thank you for doing it. If anything changed with my results or if I do try Propionate, I’ll add the results in this thread. Otherwise, this will be my last post here.
Recent Quitter, I am angry because you are not following what I am saying, and I apologize, but it is frustrating, let me explain again. First of all taking 75mg of Aromasin is like taking no Aromasin, at higher doses of Aromasin according to studies (and my personal experiences) it shuts itself off. In a study done on males taking 50mg of Aromasin, estrogen was less suppressed, when I have tried to take 50mg (even 25mg spaced out over 9 hours) I have had no results. Aromasin is a steroid, it operates in a similar way to DHT, with this condition unfortunately it is near impossible to control estrogen from a longer acting ester.
I also responded sometimes to testosterone enanthate and cypionte, however, you never took testosterone before PFS so your idea of response may be somewhat or even almost all, but not the same as without PFS. The reason that sometimes it has worked is because you inject enanthate and induce 5AR enzymes which reduce testosterone to DHT, eventually the 5AR runs out and the rest is aromatizes. This is occurring at a steady rate that is nonstop (as it is an extended release ester), in such a scenario it may work sometimes, but when the estrogen starts, it will overwhelm your 5AR system and signal your system to shut down testosterone and DHT.
High estrogen signals your system that your testosterone is too high as when testosterone is too high it is converted to estrogen which then signals your system there is too much. So that is what happened to you and to me, I have the same experiences as you, I could not figure out why I intermittently responded to testosterone. Your comment about taking even 75mg of Aromasin not working and making it hard for you to believe is exactly why no one has recovered.
First of all, Aromasin 25mg is a good anti estrogen, but it certainly does not replace the constant conversion of test to DHT and the constant flow of DHT that is constantly killing estrogen. The reason Propionate gives your body a fighting chance is because it dissipates quicker, so you aren’t left behind with this extended release abject estrogen (pretty much). I have tried everything to get cypionate and enanthate to work, when I was taking it consistently I did make some recovery but was suffering with the estrogen, you are probably used to the estrogen at this point, that happened to me my first time around.
Now the game has changed because I understand the rules, cypionate and enanthate simply will not work, if you had enough understanding and knowledge of hormones and AI’s you would already know that 75mg of Aromasin is counter productive. The most you can get out of it is 25mg and it will help to a degree, you may still feel estrogen at which point you have to take Aromidex every hour till the symptoms reverse. Eventually your system will recover when you restore things to their proper state, that was what was happening with me.
Your theory that because my protocol works that taking a low dose of cypionate or enanthate and 75mg of Aromasin that because it didn’t work, my theory is bunk (and my theory is not a theory, it is a fact which has been proven in real life on me and others) is ridiculous. I do not wish to fight with you, but you are simply not understanding me and making claims based on just not understanding what you are using or doing.
You don’t think I already tried low doses of cypionate or enanthate? The problem with them is even in a low dose they are VERY estrogenic, they are constantly releasing testosterone which is constantly releasing estrogen in a PFS victim. Cypionate and Enanthate take 2 days to peak, that means at day 2 it reaches its highest peak of testosterone, by then you should feel miserable, or maybe not, it depends on how much far activity you have and how much under control your estrogen is.
If Aromasin was enough to control estrogen from cypionate or enanthate I wouldn’t have started this thread, the only form of testosterone that works is propionate, why? It peaks in hours and starts to decline in hours. When I took enanthate I was only able to control the estrogen by taking 1mg of arimidex every hour, and I felt better and then I felt the estrogen crash symptoms when it wore off. That is because my body was converting the test to estrogen. We can recover, if we can suppress the estrogen and stimulate our own DHT so that our body starts to recover.
With this condition it is not possible with enanthate or cypionate, I am not sure if it ever will be, my recovery was only when I started using propionate 2 or 3 months ago. I tried switching to enanthate and suffered MISERABLY with the estrogen release, panic, anxiety, depression, muscle twitches, trouble taking deep breaths. I would never have believed it would require THAT MUCH AI, and I took enanthate after I got Aromasin, I figured it would be strong enough, but it is not.
Our problem is serious, we are converting testosterone to estrogen at a steady rate, and that estrogen is shutting down our systems, so it is a vicious cycle. If you want to get better, you have to understand what estrogen is and feels like, and understand why testosterone cypionate and enanthate is not working. The fact that it worked for you sometimes proves this is not some androgen receptor insensitivity syndrome, it only is consistent with everything I have said. You will intermittently respond to long acting esters of testosterone sometimes, but eventually the estrogen will come and overwhelm your system and shut you down.
Staying off of testosterone after you are shut down makes the problem worse, testosterone propionate makes it easier to control the estrogen. However, Aromasin taking more than 1 time a day isn’t going to do anything, studies have shown that and my experience has reflected that. So I went back to once a day and arimidex as needed, as time goes by my system will recover more and more and I will need less and less.
If you follow what I am saying you have a chance of getting better, nothing you have experienced is unexplainable by my theories and none of your experiences are different than mine, as much as you wish they were, they aren’t. I experienced the SAME things as you, I could not figure it out until one day I started taking arimidex during a crash, 1 an hour, felt better, took more, felt better, then all of a sudden started feeling testosterone, I couldn’t believe it. I had hoped Aromasin would allow me to take enanthate or cypionate again, but even at low doses that is not possible. Those forms of testosterone simply release too much estrogen, even at the lowest doses. I have tried every combo, have not been able to get it to work, always had inconsistent results and estrogen surges.
If you still don’t understand me or it doesn’t make sense, I am willing to debate this with you till every point is resolved, I apologize for losing my temper, but you used an old protocol I specifically said doesn’t work and tried to use it to discredit a new protocol.
I said that would be my last, but let me clarify: I did not take 75mg of Aromasin at once. I followed exactly what you have been talking about. I took it in the AM and then again later in the day. And then again this morning. That’s a total of 75mg spaced out over roughly 24 hours. Which is what you are saying you do – two 25mg doses per day. That would have to mean that you, too, are taking a total of 75 mg in a roughly 24-hour period. Or, for that matter, that you’re taking 100mg over 48 hours. Again, this is what I mean: When you say you have the answer, you start going through all sorts of contortions to try to find the One Critical Thing That Makes All The Difference that is keeping others from realizing your results.
You simply misunderstood me, and you did not follow exactly what I was telling you, I told you I could not control estrogen from testosterone cypionate or enanthate at any doses of Aromasin, only with Arimidex at 1mg every hour after I felt estrogen dominance symptoms (which you call a crash). The only form of testosterone I was able to get to work was propionate, the estrogen is simply too much. initially I was taking 25mg of Aromasin a day, I tried 25mg of aromasin 2X a day (spaced out over 9 hours), but it was counter productive. After reading studies I found that it actually disables itself at those doses, that is why 25mg of Aromasin and then Arimidex was all that worked.
I am not sure if you have been following my posts but I only take Aromasin 25mg 1 time a day, 2 times a day amped me up too much, didn't make me feel good and was counter productive. After reading studies I realized why, but it's not enough to control the estrogen release from any dose of cypionate or enanthate. So you are attempting to discredit my protocol by using the form of testosterone I specifically said does not work and produces more estrogen than can be controlled? What about my protocol do you not understand? You think I have bad motives? That I am lying? I am trying to help you, but instead of following what I have said, you have decided to go back and use the standard forms of testosterone that don't work.
If they did, people would be cured long ago, so I really don't understand what you are trying to prove here? That propionate does not work because cypionate did not work for you (as it did not for me) so because you and I both had the same experiences with cypionate what? I don't understand...How am I keeping others from realizing my results? I have said over and over that the key to reversing this is the short ester of testosterone propionate, you did not use propionate, you used cypionate, the form that I specifically said doesn’t work. When I explained to you (yet again) that that ester doesn’t work, now you are questioning my integrity. You are saying that because you also could not get cypionate to work, that my protocol is bullshit. I don’t understand it recent quitter, please explain to me how trying a form of test with a long acting ester which I specifically said does not work disproves my theory? This is what I feared, people trying their own protocols and then ruining this for others. It isn’t complicated, Aromasin 25mg a day, and testosterone propionate 10mg every other day. It isn’t difficult, and arimidex if you feel any estrogen crash like symptoms.
Is this too complicated for you to understand? If so I am sorry, many doctors could not follow me, so far only Dr Jacobs has been able to follow me. So I understand how this can be confusing or complicated, I am sorry you don’t understand what I am saying or that 2 components are required, testosterone propionate and aromasin and also Arimidex.
My discovery was the form of testosterone which is what made the difference, that is even more important than the anti estrogen you use, using cypionate is pointless and has nothing to do with this protocol. I am sorry cypionate doesn’t work for you, but it also doesn’t work for me. I donate my time to help people here and by using another ester of testosterone and using that to discredit what is working for me and others is horrible.
How many times do I have to say
THERE IS NO WAY TO CONTROL THE ESTROGEN FROM TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE OR ENANTHATE WITH AI’S NO WAY, UNLESS YOU TAKE 1MG of ARIMIDEX PER HOUR. THE DISCOVERY I MADE WAS TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE, DR JACOBS IS IMPRESSED AS HE NEVER HEARD OF THIS ESTER. So you decided to just discredit my protocol based on using an old disproven protocol we all know doesn’t work. How exactly is using cypionate with aromasin anything remotely close to my protocol? Please explain!! Aromasin was not enough to get enanthate or cypionate to work at any dose, only arimidex 1mg an hour, I said that over and over. This can’t work without testosterone propionate. You seem bent on trying to disprove my protocol without even trying it, don’t you think I have fucking tried cypionate with Aromasin? MANY TIMES?!?!?! So what? How are your experiences nullifying my discovery that cypionate doesn’t work and only propionate does? I don’t get your logic
You know, if you weren’t being such a jerk, and you would try this protocol, you might be able to reverse this condition and get better, but for reasons beyond my comprehension, you aren’t trying my protocol. You are trying an old one that I said does not work and ruining this for others, I don’t understand it. Gosh I swear I am going to leave this forum and go off and just forget it, I can’t deal with this stress. I have enough going on, I am just trying to help people here, if you want to take cypionate and aromasin go for it man…
I’m saying it doesn’t make sense that the difference between Propionate and Cypionate is the difference between The Cure and No Results. And I say that well aware of what the differences between them are. And since you keep invoking Dr. Jacobs (who as of a week ago you were calling a fraud), let me point out that he claims that many guys taking Cypionate have recovered.