Danny, what form of masteron did you use? Masteron Propionate? Masteron Enanthate? What doses? How frequently? How much test prop did you use and how frequently? If this fails, it means you need Androstanolone, that would get into your brain and kill estrogen (rather than block it as Masteron does). So don’t lose hope if that fails. If Androstanolone fails (which I can’t imagine), then the next step would be getting into some exotic steroids.
Danny, have you EVER responded to any hormone or supplement ever? Have you ever had any morning erection ever, I am trying to figure out where you are and where you stand so I can better advise. Do you have muscle twitching in your calves? Or did you have it while on testosterone? Did you ever have any kind of improvement with an AI, or a feeling of being less miserable?
I believe it is trichostatin A) and it has shown effective. Well, do you know how it works? It works to preserve the brain by inducing (increasing) 5AR gene transcription, basically it is protecting the brain by making more 5ar. Interesting yeah? Imagine if we had that!
Ihatepropecia emailed me the following above, has anyone looked into this drug? Sounds rather interesting, something we should look into simultaneously.
I have found some suppliers of it for research purposes, but it’s expensive, roughly $100 per mg. Of course, who cares about money, though discovering the dosing, dosing method (oral or not) etc, would be the challenge. We would have to look into these things, but from my understanding it’s was first discovered around the mid 70’s and is relatively safe. They have used it for cancer treatments, but I guess never commercialized it because of it’s cost, something like that.
Let's buy it, I don't care about the cost either, if it works we could get Jacobs or someone to start using it in addition to our protocols. We are close here guys, I think the missing link is androstanolone injection. No one has ever even tried it, but we will see how Dannyfc does on Masteron, also some andractim gel ontop of the masteron could be helpful to kill estrogen.
All this talk of masteron makes me want to go back on it, but because it only blocks and doesn't kill estrogen, and suppresses DHT, bloating occurs and the whole estrogen emotional stuff. I never got to try it with a PFS testosterone protocol. DannyFC, you will need AI's while on Masteron, don't use Aromasin, it suppresses DHT and it also contradicts with Masteron, I tried them together, big mistake.After coming off Propecia I don’t have morning erections. I haven’t lost any hair. I can’t build muscle. I sweat less and my body temperature has dropped. All symptomatic of low androgenic activity.
I’ve tried most steroids and none have induced any change in my condition. Only ones I haven’t tried are Trenbolone and Deca
Would you expect masteron prop to work better than enanthate for any particular reason? Or just for the purpose of matching esters, i.e. test prop with masteron prop.
Danny, Masteron propionate 50mg 3X a week, after that gets steady state add testosterone propionate perhaps 25mg 3X a week or more. When I was on Masteron prop 50mg 3X a week, I responded normally to testosterone enanthate 200mg!!!! however, because it was blocking estrogen and not killing it (like real DHT), I got really bloated and started experiencing the PFS emotional estrogen attack (aka crash). However, I was horny as fuck and jerking off in the middle of a "crash," lol, with huge muscles and all.
I couldn't figure out HOW the fuck that was possible, at that point I was thinking PFS had a sense of humor and was just fucking with me. Now I know that it was because Masteron is NOT dht and real DHT would have killed estrogen, so I started looking for Proviron in an injectable form, does not exist. It exists in Latin America, but it is actually testosterone (not Proviron), just has the same name. My search for pure DHT injectable continued for months, only a few days ago I stumbled upon an article mentioning Androstanolone. This was the first time I found out such a drug existed, the reason it has never been used is body builders stuck with Masteron and never saw a need to go to pure DHT, they think it is the same thing.
Little do Bodybuilders know that the reason they still get gyno and bloating on Masteron is because it is NOT DHT and it is shutting down their endogenous DHT, pure DHT replacement would kill all of that. I can't believe in all these years, no one has gone down this road.I find for experimentation propionate esters are best as they are fast acting and fast dissipating, researchers seem to use propionate esters for research as well. It is reasonable to conclude that they arrived at the same reasons as I did for this choice. There have been many times using myself as a guinea pig that I over injected masteron prop, it releases a lot of adrenaline. Knowing that as ever hour went by it was wearing off was quite helpful. The first time I used Masteron I injected WAYYYYYY too much, had I used Enanthate I am not sure what I would have done.
Apparently not everyone gets that adrenaline rush, so keep the doses low. When I injected too much masteron it actually shut itself off, stopped working, the working dose was a lower dose, forget body builder doses. I am sure you prob used the doses body builders use (like I did), but they are too much and actually don’t work. What concerns me is the recycling of Estrogen and how I got very bloated and felt the emotional effects of an estrogen dominance crash. While I had the monstrous libido and penile activity and muscles, my concerns are relative to your situation being more neuroestrogen dominant than mine.
I have stayed on hormones since the day I crashed, I strongly advise anyone with PFS to stay on some form of testosterone (except cypionate) long term with a good AI daily (Letrozole 2.5mg perhaps). In your case Danny, it could at least trigger some response over the course of time. While I was not responding for months (except for when I used something like HGH and had a mysterious intermittent response that now I can explain) I believe it did things I could not notice, I attribute my better than most condition to my constant hormone use since the minute I crashed.
An Endrocinologist once told me testosterone has some effects they are finding out aside from just a precursor to DHT, so it does SOMETHING, may not be much, but it is something. While I was on testosterone long ester, I had acne, more so than now on suspension that is bursting test and 5ar and DHT and then depleting to nothing.
Strange thing is I am having more gains and results on suspension than I have had on any form of test, but I can feel I have low testosterone right now, but my muscles are pumped and big. It tells me that low test is exactly what we need, high test for a burst, then low test, so I am going to let this 10mg of suspension every other day trail out. It is pretty painful as the feeling of low test sucks, makes me want to go back on Propionate, nevertheless, it is doing something more than propionate in some ways. If I had an extended release version of arimidex, propionate would be the better choice.
On prop I feel the test continuously, have effects of it, but there is a steady stream of estrogen released alongside that is melting away muscle and fucking with my mood, and causing bloating, but moon on that was more stable as you can see from my posts. I am going to fight this thing to the bitter end until we have come to some conclusions here, without help I had to go off my own observations of myself. With the help of you guys we are now able to cover more ground and make more progress. If there are non responders, we must find a solution for them, and I believe that solution is Androstanolone, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to come to that realization. Frankly, even Dr Goldstein is using Androstanolone, telling guys to get that DHT gel (same stuff), but it is shit compared to an injection.
Goldstein rules out guys as having blown out DHT receptors (in so many words) for not responding to Andractim, but they may require much higher doses than a shitty cream that doesn’t even do much to a normal guy.
Hey DANNYFC, I am going to respond here,
Danny told me he used a vial of Masteron and Testosterone mixed together in one vial, that could be why it didn't work. Masteron must be used first alone to establish a steady state and then testosterone on top of that. So that makes me a little more optimistic about your response when done the way I did it, masteron must level the field and testosterone on the field, so let's see how this unfolds.
Though as I mentioned, my theory is starting to evolve into the requirement of pure DHT (androstanolone) to break the neuroestrogen dominance cycle by killing neuroestrogen.Danny, the PFS study done on neurosteroids shows high estradiol, low DHT (in the form of neurosteroids), it is consistent with my theory. We have seen that every single guy here who has responded to testosterone has only responded to very low doses. If they were androgen insensitive, they would only respond to SUPER HIGH doses. Look at drug addicts, when they get addicted to heroin or cocaine, low doses do not work, they require SUPER high doses to feel anything.
Since Masteron is not DHT and does not kill estrogen, but just blocks it, Proviron is too weak, as even in my case it required about 1 pill an hour at 24 pills a day to respond to test after a few days. I felt NOTHING from Andractim, in my case with response, I require high doses of AI’s to respond to test, I don’t take them I get bloated and my oily skin stops (sign of 5AR activity is sebum production), I take an AI and I start feeling a response. Even Eden noted that the only way he was able to respond to testosterone was with an AI, every guy here who has followed these theories seems to have responded as predicted.
The few guys who have not responded are in the minority and may have such an extreme level of neuroestrogen dominance that an AI is not strong enough, Masteron will not work, Andractim is too weak, Proviron is too weak (if it is too weak for me, it is def too weak for you). So your 5AR is suppressed and you have thus all test being aromatized,. Occam’s Razor, what is the most logical conclusion, that you alone are suffering from some form of androgen insensitivity (which contradicts most experiences here that coincide with my theories and the research done on neurosteroids), or you have extreme neuroestrogen dominance. We don’t even know that DHT hasn’t worked as you never tried a strong dose of injectable DHT (Androstanolone).
Most humans would come to your conclusion out of frustration, but when looking at the facts, what has occurred to us all (and you) fits in line with suppressing 5AR. Androgen insensitivity does not, and if it were the case, we who respond would respond like cocaine addicts do to cocaine, we would require LARGE doses of test to feel anything. Instead, large doses of test cause massive estrogen symptoms which shut us down, it seems all evidence and logic points to my theories, and should give you a glimmer of hope.
RQ for example responded to his first cypionate dose normally, for 2 weeks I believe, and then he was shut down. If it was androgen insensitivity, he would NEVER have responded, and Dr Goldstein has no explanation for why he responded. I do, he entered a new level of neuroestrogen dominance that shut everything down and created a cycle or Paradox of Estrogen dominance that cannot be broken without large doses of real DHT. There aren’t any facts to support androgen insensitivity, there is no logical argument to support it, and such arguments do not explain why we are responding to test better at lower doses (which contradicts said argument). No, I don’t buy androgen insensitivity, and that my friend is a good thing for you. I never could understand how Finasteride could cause brain damage. How could something that suppresses 5AR cause damage, but I believe our body reacted the same way we would if we took Winstrol. If a normal guy takes Winstrol and then stops, his DHT shuts down, it takes months to recover, no libido, nothing. He can recover though, because the nature of DHT shut down does not inhibit recovery. In our case we took a drug that (like Winstrol to DHT) affected our 5AR by shutting it down. Now as a consequence our test is being aromatized and preventing us from recovering (on a neurosteroidal level). This would even just be theory, however a PFS study done on neurosteroids substantiates what I am saying.
No, I took a pure blend of masteron. I just mentioned I may buy a mixed blend. It’s all semantics anyway, the only difference is whether you take 1 injection or 2.
Do you want me to try it again or not? Any blend, any dose. No excuses.
But seems to me you’ve already accepted it won’t work and moved on to another substance. Another piece of the jigsaw, conveniently hard to source.
If this was a final protocol why does it run to 85 pages now?
Maybe it’s time to tone down some of the self congratulary rhetoric because this false hope is exhausting.
Nopecia you don’t even have Pfs, this doesn’t even apply to you, you have low testosterone and would respond normally to testosterone as you have never crashed and responded to tribulus. I’m looking to help people with actual Pfs, not just fin induced low test (like I had before I took avodart). It’s absolutely absurd that you talk about hope and false hope. All you need is testosterone and since you are afraid to take it, whatever solution is here will be hormonal and you will be afraid of taking as well, so why come here?
HAD YOU BEEN FOLLOWING THIS THREAD, YOU WOULD KNOW IT IS NOT ABOUT A FINAL PROTOCOL ANYMORE, IT IS ABOUT MULTIPLE PROTOCOLS FOR MULTIPLE PEOPLE. THIS IS ABOUT EXPERIMENTS BEING CONDUCTED TO PROVE OR DISPROVE ESTABLISHED DOGMA HERE. THIS THREAD IS GOING TO BE MANY MORE PAGES, IT IS GOING TO BE A PFS MANUAL FOR SOMEONE WHO CRASHES AND WANTS TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHAT WILL WORK AND WHAT WON’T WORK. THIS IS GOING TO CONCLUDE WITH ANSWERS FROM EXPERIMENTS, NOT THEORIES. SO SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE TO SEARCH THIS ENTIRE FORUM WITH ZILLIONS OF THREADS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON, 1 THREAD, 1 BOOK, ALL ANSWERS.
I have worked tirelessly spending 24/7 of my time helping others here, sharing my data, my experiences, I don't need to come here or post here, I know enough to help myself. I come here to solve this problem, and there have already been multiple posts from people who have improved based on my theories. Please tell me when I have said something self congratulatory in recent history? Obviously since you have NOTHING to contribute to this thread at all or this forum, you have decided to post an attack on me. I really don't think guys here who are depending on answers from my experiments and theories want to hear what you have to say about how I post.
Someone who has Finasteride induces Low T and is afraid to try test should not be on this thread. While you go about your business in life, I spend just about all my time working with people from here researching, theorizing, experimenting, what do you do? Now run along and complain to Mew how your feelings have been hurt. It seems everything is about YOUR feelings, you are afraid to try test because of YOUR fear, and you will complain to Mew and try to get me banned because YOUR feelings got hurt.
Go for it, because of YOUR feelings you will ruin what is helping many people here, and very well may help everyone here with PFS (except you) because you just have Low test.Dannyfc, please buy masteron propionate and lets conduct this experiment, it’s possible you didn’t do things correctly. It took me some time to figure it out, if it doesn’t work then we will move onto the next step Androstanolone. Yes Androstanolone is hard to source and that may very well be why so many guys have been stuck like this, would you agree? Dr Goldstein has success with Androstanolone in gel form at laughable doses and would explain why it doesn’t work.
Let me guide you with masteron and let’s give it a shot, in the meantime we are all working on getting Androstanolone. Everything about Pfs is complicated, that’s why it’s been so difficult to solve. Even the fucking treatment is complicated because it doesn’t fucking exist! Thankfully it does in powder form. Let me make this clear Danny, we are riding this to the end, doesn’t my theory make sense? Also, it’s only a speculation on why masteron might not have worked if it was used right, when I run out of options and ideas I’ll post that here and be very clear about it. I have a life and im spending too much time on here. I am not out of ideas and options, and nothing yet is unexplainable to me, I typed a very detailed explination, surely it made sense to you. Nothing bad can come out of proving or disproving this.
I’m trying to confirm or deny my theories and some dogma from this forum, so that it’s no longer theory and actually fact one way or another. If I gave up after my first protocol I wouldn’t have come this far. When I am done this thread will have actual answers and not just theory. We will know if guys like Dannyfc can respond or not as we will have exhausted all options. However, it’s sad that the most obvious option (Androstanolone aka DHT injection) has not been thought of till now. If I am right and Dannyfc responds, his life will be changed. If I am wrong and he doesn’t respond, it will give valuable data to researchers who may one day try to help him (if im wrong). This will answer questions that are no conjecture with fact.
I am responsive to my protocol, most here I think are, so it doesn’t matter to me one way or another, proving or disproving this won’t affect my life or situation. If I quit now, I can focus on dating and my business and social life. I have been consumed with this, I know enough to help myself, there hasn’t been any information on this forum that has helped me or taught me something I didn’t know about hormones. I have spent my life helping people, most don’t trust people who try to help without s clear motive. Guys here sometimes have questioned my motives as it is not conventional to help people to this extent for free.
So it matters to me at this point not, one way or another, I have found all my answers. I already know I respond to Androstanolone based on my own responses to dht. So at this point I’m hoping to disprove the non response theory and help Dannyfc and others, I hope the results are positive, I believe they are. When you are trying to solve a problem you keep at it till you run out of solutions and then you give up and consider it unsolvable. I am far from running out of solutions, in fact the most obvious one has never been tried, but it’s no surprise, it took me 6 months to even discover it existed, and it doesn’t on the black market.
If I stop right here right now, it will be helpful to my life and my situation, if I continue, it will be straining on me, but could save lives. The final answer is pretty close now, Androstanolone, but since it will take time to get it, I would like to confirm Danny did not respond to Masteron, took me a lot of tinkering to make that work, I would like to help him as I believe his situation can be solved. Dr Goldstein has a similar approach, but like all doctors, his drugs suck, it’s no secret Androstanolone gel (Andractim) sucks.
BTW, for those following my protocol, I am on 10mg of Suspension every other day, having stronger libido, harder and bigger muscles, easier to control estrogen. Suspension is weird, huge DHT 5ar boost at first then tapers off to low T, so less 5ar activity over the course of the day or 2, but better results. The reason is extended release of test overwhelms our system and it becomes aromatized, the estrogen attacks us. So this protocol seems to be more livable and stable, it has been VERY hard for me to accept 10mg of suspension every other day as I liked to inject a lot of test before PFS.
However, this is what is working.
Stronger Libido, Bigger Muscles, harder muscles,
Normally I change things and don't give them a chance to play out, I decided I will stick to this for at least 2 weeks before changing things. I am starting to think my problems have all come from estrogen piling up. I start a protocol, it works great, then estrogen piles up and becomes overwhelming. It all stems from my inability to inject every other day or every 2nd day, I have body builder mentality, it has been my advantage and disadvantage.
Let me be more clear, since I have switched to 10mg of Suspension every other day, I have had the best response to any test protocol I have used since, but we will see how it plays out.
To be honest, I’m not sure if I have PFS or FIN-induced low T. What is the difference?
I took a supplement many years ago called Diesel Test Hardcore. I felt amazing on it - confidence, alpha-maleness, calmness, cocky, pure clarity of thought, wood all day, libido, low refractory, well-being, balls doubled in size. I spent >5 years trying various herbs to replicate that effect. I could not. I say this because there’s something out there in the herbal world that can totally ameliorate PFS. Anyway. I never responded to Tribulus, Maca, Tongkat Ali in any comparable way. Tried all types of brands and doses. Negligible. Horny Goat Weed and Avena Sativa are still on my list. Obviously whatever “it” was, was steroidal in nature.
JQD - just read your post. I agree. Asset and a liability. And its the E…
Anyway. All information is relevant and fills in more blanks. Ive got the T Prop and will try that now.
Tumble there is a HUGE difference, I was on Fin for 13 years, I had Fin induced low T and went on HRT and it changed my life, I responded normally to testosterone for years till I took Avodart and then got stage 2 PFS and CRASHED. Nopecia has never crashed, he took Trib and responded positively, that means he can take test and he won’t have an estrogen dominance attack. It is a huge deal, he just has low test, whatever the reason doesn’t matter, there is a treatment. That treatment doesn’t work on me, or anyone who actually has Stage 2 PFS, only a certain protocol of testosterone works for us.
If nopecia went on test he would be fine, end of story. Tumble, if you never crashed from test or something that induces testosterone, you can go on any form of testosterone and be fine, you won’t need this special protocol. When you go on test prop you will find out quickly, the only side effect you will get is massive bloating from water retention, so then you could go on a long acting testosterone ester like Enanthate and problem solved, goodbye PFS (like I did for years before I tried Avodart and fucked myself).
Holy shit brother. I’m really sorry to hear that!!! That’s a double fucking!
Dude, honestly, I’ve NEVER had a PFS crash. I have no idea what that is, tbh…
My T tested in the bottom 15th percentile. HOWEVER, when I took a good quality Tongkat Extract, I had T tested, and it came back in the top 75% percentile, except my dick was still dead. I didn’t feel anything?
Time will tell, soon enough. Next week = T Prop.
When PFS first hit me, the first thing I wanted to try was DHT, but I read on here in this forum that DHT didn’t work, so I was mislead fraudulently. Later I found out that not a single person on this entire forum tried injectable DHT, and that DHT gel (Andractim) has been working for some people, and it is shit so weak. I find myself 6 months later rather still stunned than no one on this forum tried injectable DHT, except JN, who said it worked for him! He recovered and is not on any hormones as he lives in the UK and they are a bit behind us when it comes to hormone medicine.
Masteron is NOT DHT, that was one reason I quit it, but I don’t blame people here, it took me a long time to even find the stuff, but the most obvious treatment to this disorder was never tried. Also, a huge disparity here is that there are a few guys on here who haven’t responded to hormones as others, but they are the minority, and caused the rest of the site to not try anything. I am in contact with someone who after 7 months of PFS finally started test with improvements, not normal responses a non pfs guy would have, but enough for him to stay it long term. I just don’t see why actual injectable test would not work on a non responder since it would kill off all the estrogen in his brain.
I want to first work with Danny and try Masteron properly and document it while we acquire Androstanolone injection.