Excellent news, you see guys? We can improve, it’s all about finding the proper balance, that’s what I’m working on, and more people are joining me. Rather than sitting around talking about suicide we have people getting better. My theories really are true, it’s just finding that sweet spot, we can do it, I got myself this far.
Tumble, are you on testosterone? If so what type and what dose?
Aromasin is suppressive, I gave it another try and for sure, without a doubt it started to shut down my dht and I had a massive estrogen surge. So Aromasin is out of the equation for me, if im going to take dht I’ll take the real thing. Too bad, on paper it sounds nice but it’s no go for us.
NEW EXPERIMENT beyond performed by PFS sufferer X1, guys this is incredibly exciting, first we have a post from tumble of some pretty significant improvements.
EXPERIMENT: I have wanted to test out a very stable protocol for pfs consisting of testosterone enanthate weekly injections and Letrozole 2.5mg daily. To my knowledge we don’t have anyone who has gone on test enanthate (less estrogenic ester than cypionate) and Letrozole 2.5mg. This is great that we have Moonman conducting one experiment and me conducting another and now a third conducting one. My goal is to disprove the theory of non response to androgens and ascertain the best protocol for each situstion.
X1 will go on enanthate weekly, the goal of this experiment is to ascertain if letrozole 2.5mg daily on enanthate can allow for a stable and long term protocol. As you guys have noticed I am currently doing better than I ever have on an androgenic level, but not on a balance level of estrogen. The goal of this protocol could provide a stable long term (uncomplicated) improvement to most guys with pfs. I know that over time this will provide improvement for many guys as I was on enanthate for months after I got Pfs and while I didn’t respond to test correctly, it probably kept me from completely going under. There were a few times I spontaneously recovered and crashed. I couldn’t figure out why till I came up with my theories, I never went back on enanthate steady whole on Letrozole. It has been my fall back protocol if I want to simplify things and just hope for long term improvement.
We don’t know what 2.5mg of letrozole will do in the equation, it may even induce a much stronger response. This although is a very basic protocol, it is exciting. It’s something other guys can go on to lower estrogen and induce dht long term and hopefully recover quicker and have better quality of life. I will ask Patient X1 if he would consider posting his experiences. It would be nice to have the log and data, I think he will, he is a very active poster here.
If anyone else wants to join this program and test out a protocol please contact me. While I’m perfecting my protocol and trying to find the AI and suspension balance, we will have other experiments going on. If we could get more volunteers we could cover more ground. Come on guys, we can’t sit around waiting for research, we are the research and pfs has many solutions, we will establish several.
For those who are just interested in observing, your emotional support is appreciated. It’s really nice finally not being on my own and having others to help me here.
Merry christmass to you to man, hope the testosterone propionate and continuing to use armidex works for you. Sounds like so far the armidex is working great for you.
If my question about why you are choosing to try propionate for your first attempt with JQD’s method came across as a challenge I apolgise.
I’m just curious about why you are choosing propionate over suspension.
By the way do you know what your testosterone levels (free and total) where at before starting your “loading phase” with the armidex?
Running Arimidex alone until ~Dec 30th. Still waiting on needles. Will run Test Prop 20mg EOD, or E3D, then dose Adex around that…
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Thanks. And merry Christmas to you, as well.
Ordered the T Prop before JQD suggested Suspension. I’m in no rush, and will trial the T Prop for a couple months, then try Suspension.
Here in Canada, bloodwork is hard to come by and Doctors only order for bare-minimum hormones. I had two blood tests done. One was on Tongkat Ali (Total T came back in the >75th percentile). E and Free T not tested. The second on no supplements (clean): Total T bottom 13th percentile - same as a 75 year old man; Free T bottom 19th percentile. E was not tested. The urologist who ordered the second round of labs refused treatment because I was “within lab range”.
Lab ranges don’t mean shit, for starters. Lab ranges are established using pre-pubescent boys and 90 year old men. What matters are AGE-CORRELATED ranges. And even still, guys might need E or T lower or higher then those values, based on individual variations in each persons physiology. IOW, lab ranges don’t mean shit.
What matters is how we FEEL. Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet here. We can establish a guideline protocol through this thread (which Testosterones and AI’s are effective, and in which suggested doses). But the sweetspot will be different for each individual. While JQD might need high amounts of AI, I might need much less. We will all have to experiment and “dial it in” ourselves.
The ADEX is going alright. I wouldn’t say going great. I have experienced high T levels, and reduced E, and that feeling is GREAT (took an OTC herbal test-booster). This is adequate. I can get it up and have sex. This is good news. Some improvement in mood…yes, it’s a good start. Will continue and improve upon this.
God bless.
Just to forwarn you, the ball game changes in test, those doses will need to be multiplied by 5x at least probably. You will see, start with the lowest dose, 10mg a day, while suspension is great, prop is more stable. I just feel suspension can ultimately be the test that helps most guys here, it's just still so new to me that I have a lot of fine tuning to do. That doesn't cancel out prop, prop had me very stable, still couldn't get the AI dosing easy. I recommend you try Letro 1.25mg daily if you can't get the arimidex working. After a month on Letro it becomes more effective as it reaches steady state levels. Letro does lower libido, but it's all dose and ratio related.
I always say to try arimidex first, arimidex seems to be the best AI for us as in least side effects, but it just requires so much redosing. Is there anyone here who would like to peruse getting an extended release version of arimidex made? That pill would help probably all of us (with different doses for different people).
This is why this condition has been so hard to treat, there needs to be so many different protocols. I believe there can be classifications of different levels of pfs, and protocols for each of those levels. My goal is to find as many protocols as we can, I believe in a year this forum will look very different.PROTOCOLS: We are testing out multiple protocols, so if you have prop or you have suspension, both can be used, we will have different options for different people. There will be an array of PFS protocols for every different level of PFS. I also decided to switch to 10mg a day of suspension, I start to feel normal and good late at night, this tells me that it could be my dose is effective more at 50%, I will begin Monday. I believe I will do really well on suspension 10mg, will post results of mine and the other tester.
yeah keep us posted on how the 10mg dose feels for u J-Dawg
just took my first armidex this morning .25…fuckin pills are awful to cut, I will be wasting some or half of them. they just don’t cut cleanly.
im gonna do .25 every day and see how I feel after a week and then get bloods after one month, I feel that’s a smart move
What up SG, J-Dawg had given me a link for liquid Arimidex, they send you a syringe with it, pretty easy to dose that way. Maybe for your refill, hit either of us up if you care to try Liquidex.
Question: JQD
Do you believe Aromasin is completely out of the question bro? Even in low doses…say 10mg eod or every e3d as some forums have suggested. Everything I read about it seems so damn promising. Is it possible that a longer trial of maybe 30 days is worth a look? Just throwing it out there. Peace out hombres.
hey perfectgent,
thank u for the offer sir. it is much appreciated. I think if anything ill hit up Jacobs for the pills being a smaller dosage. only for the convenience ya know? the less needles the better…Shit I wish suspension was a pill instead.
speaking of JQD? I know test pills are really bad for your liver, but at the dosages we’d be using being smaller, is there a pill option out there?
just asking? if theres one guy that knows it’s you
SG, will do, took my first 10mg shot today, as for arimidex, remember if your testosterone is low your estrogen won’t be crazy high so take 1 pill and wait. Don’t take them on any schedule, see how you feel an hour after you take it. If you feel good then wait and take more when you feel bad, if you feel better but still bad then take more in an hour, if you feel nothing then wait an hour and take more.
Don’t keep taking them, go by how you feel, finbasteride just took 1mg at once and made him feel bad, has to be low doses by how you feel. If you are on test the situation is different, you need like 5x as much and it comes right back.
The problem with pills and creams is they are unpredictable and yea the whole liver thing, that’s not a long term option if it even works. I would order liquidex online like perfect gent said, same stuff but flavored in liquid form. You can measure with a syringe they send you and shoot it in your mouth. Def something you want to have on hand, in the meantime here is a trick I came up with. Use a razor blade and score the pills yourself in 4s and you will find them to break evenly and easily if you break them in the direction of the score.
Thanks to everyone who is testing and posting results, very interesting. I have been testing an Hcg / nolvadex / clomid protocol along with progesterone and will try to join once I’m completed.
just to clear something up,
I don’t feel bad in terms of estrogen symptoms. I feel fine. I do feel on some level its holding me back at best. I just feel like I should feel a little more with my libido.
so I figured if I take the edge of e2 then my t will go even higher.
I wish there a quick way to find e2 right on the spot with no blood test by a doctor
Let us know how it works out, I recommend you swap out the hcg for toremifene citrate (Torem), guys who don't have Pfs can't handle hcg due to the estrogen, I quit it for that reason. I ordered Torem, read about it, it actually is better than nolvadex and clomid. In one drug it has all 3 of those and supposed to be better, but looks like you are following that one doctor (forgot his name). He seemed pretty keen and said he had success with them, so def worth a try for the greater good, keep torem in mind. Also, I would keep arimidex on hand for the estrogen surges, hcg has massive estrogen surges that are unpredictable.I can easily sense my E2 levels and adjust, if you pay attention you will learn the signs of estrogen for your body, that's the best test.JustQuitDut, you seem to react in an extremely hostile way to people when they don’t respond to your latest DIY protocol(s). In the end it is not surprising that people are not responding. For years on here many people have tried various forms of T before and not had any response. This is well-established by now. If people were responding, this would all be solved by now and there would be no studies.
Look, I know that you are opposed to anybody who talks about evidence, but it is not right for you to launch attacks on guys who are reporting that they haven’t had any results from your home-brew plans. These are guys who have tried your theories and so far have not had results. For the sake of human happiness, I hope they achieve success. But these ideas have been tried so many times over the years.
Round and round the insanity merry-go-round goes. I know you refuse to believe in evidence, but this pattern has been repeating itself for years and years. You’re just the latest incarnation of a fad “treatment protocol”.
The best investment someone can make is by donating to the PFS Foundation.