UPDATE - A THIRD PFS SUFFERER WILL BE INJECTING HIS FIRST SUSPENSION DOSE TODAY POSSIBLY:
This person is a well known poster here, he is going to be injecting his first dose today I believe, based on his responses to tribulus I suspect he will have a stronger initial response than might be expected, but we do not know till he tries. However, it did take me about 3 days for full effects, so this case will be posted soon.
Update-
I have the armidex in my possession.
1mg tabsâŚI have off tomorrow so its a perfect day to start.
kinda nervous lol
gonna cut them in halves and take .5 a day and see how I feel.
as a side note- I know that everyone one here has gone through more than their fair share of disappointment, depression, despair, anxiety etc.
and when someone comes along saying they have found the cure ppl either get excited or pissed off. I can totally understand and sympathize both sides. I for one cant, and do not take disappointment well. never have never will.
however I urge you all, please lay off the man whoâs trying to help us. He is not trying to make money off of u or get his rock off on getting your hopes up. If he wanted fame he wouldâve told us his name and started a fucking website and also charging u guys. which he is not
he takes hours out of his life to test, think, type, help, and defend himself. Even IF, he may be wrong, do u want to spit in the face of the guy with the antidote, really. Is that what we are doing here?
as far as im concerned I will keep defending JQD because apparently he really is losing the incentive for sticking around. Most wouldâve left by now. But heres my thought processâŚI think he knows that this truly is the thing that will save us so maybe the bullshit does get to him a littt;e. how could it not? but he knows what the end result is and he knows he wouldâve helped all of us. maybe one day this website will
have a big 404 ERROR on it and at the bottom is JQDâS picture lol
Who gives a shit indeed. All Iâm doing is noting what Iâm experiencing, or not experiencing on your protocol. But if youâre going to tell everyone here that my expectations were too high and that the new magic number is 3 months, Iâm going to point out that you were equally adamant and unbending about a very different timeline until approximately 3 days ago.
As Iâve always said: I hope youâre right and your theory was compelling enough for me to ignore Dr. Goldstein and follow your lead. That ought to say something. But in virtually every post here you make insist you have this all figured out and that thereâs no doubt youâre right. That adamance, combined with your aggressive dismissal of anyone who might disagree with or question you, has so far not been matched with evidence. We have your theory, your own anecdotal account, and now we have a couple guys trying it. Since I did what most guys here have yet to do â listened to what you said, obtained all of the hormones and supplements and began injecting and ingesting them â I deserve to post my experiences here without you trying to attack me. I am a data point in the testing of your theory - nothing more, but also nothing less.
[quote=âJustQuitDutâ]
RQ get over it already, who gives a shit what I told you, are you 2 years old? You are an adult, do you have to go over the same point over and over that I told you (btw that prop would take 30 days) but suspension would work right away? So what if it doesnât? You know how many people I am in communication with who I told the same thing to and instead of going nuts over it they just continued on waiting for it to work?
Either it works or it doesnât work, or it works right away or it takes months, but to hammer the same point over and over âbut you said bla bla bla,â you sound like a broken record. Ok, I am sorry for extending myself to you, giving you hours of my time on the phone losing many nights I could have gone on dates or gone out with friends. Text arguing with you for hours and hours to try and reassure you, I have never had this experience trying to help someone in my entire life.
You know I am really tired of your hostility towards me, this entire thing has been all about RQ, you were non responsive for 2.5 years, but I said this would work right away and it didnât. I posted that I reversed on this date, I posted that, you are so fucking hostile and I am sure I am not the first person to tell you this in your life. I have spent my life helping people, and the few times I have been treated like this by someone I tried to help, they were often very abusive people. PFS aside, you need to re-evaluate your behavior, I am not getting paid, Dr jacobs is and Dr Goldstein is, I have never met someone so hostile in my life.
If you think I am dishonest and untrustworthy, then go to Dr Goldstein, go on his cypionate with arimidex and order andractim off the internet. You should have never even said one bad word to me after how I extended myself to helping you, the only thing you should be typing is âthank you,â but instead you attack me as if you paid me and I was working for you and I screwed up. No, I volunteered my time to help you, and so what if it didnât work on the first day?
I canât deal with you anymore, I assume I am not the first person in your life who has been through this, now you have nothing because you will have to go through someone else to get help with Masteron. Donât tell me how you said âthank you,â mistreating me with verbal abuse for hours is not being thankful, and your attitude towards me is just plain shitty. I have told you this before and I will say it again, you are an extremely selfish person, there are lots of guys on here that I am dealing with that are really fucked up really bad. It isnât all about RQ and RQâs response and what you were promised, this isnât a fucking business deal! Or a sales transaction, it is my fucking volunteering my time to help you and trying the best I can and hoping it works.
Now that it didnât work on the first day like I hoped, you have behaved like usual, an ungrateful spoiled child, and never in all my conversations with you have I seen one hint that you care about anyone but yourself and your own interests. I told you this privately and I am saying it now, this is how you operate. Right now you stopped responding to my texts and stopped texting me, but as soon as you start to respond or see that Masteron works, you will start texting me again because I will become useful.
I am NOT unaccustomed to dealing with people and understanding different types of people, and I have observed this behavior in you from the moment I met you. I tried very hard to help you, but you are so combative and self centered that you make it impossible. You are so convinced that you cannot respond to anything that you donât have any patience and set yourself up for failure. So what you havenât responded for 2.5 years, Moonman hasnât responded for 10 years! Depressed guy is half dead, his libido at this point is a luxury.
You are LUCKY I approached you and tried to help you after your becoming angry on here initially, I mean you become angry and abusive and you just donât recognize that behavior in yourself. You arenât the only one here with PFS, I have it too, I have managed to reverse it, it did not happen on the first day. I am sorry I was over excited and had hoped it would work on the first day, optimism is not a bad thing, but no one else has reacted the way you have. While I am sure in detail you can recount our numerous conversations and my promises that donât line up to what you expected. You sound like you fucking bought a car from me and got fucked over, when I was volunteering my time and experiences to try and help you. There is NO EXCUSE for your behavior, none, and when you decide you want to try masteron or with Suspension starts working, donât bother contacting me, I donât need to volunteer my time to be abused. While your interpretation of it is not abuse, it is abuse if the person on the receiving end feels abused multiple times.
You need to sort out a lot more than PFS, how you treat people and perceive yourself and others I would say for starters. Lots of guys here have PFS, and they do not act like an asshole, so I am sorry you didnât respond on the first day and I said I would. Why donât you ask for a refund, oh wait, you didnât pay me anything, so then why are you mad? That some stranger on the internet took hours and days of his time to try his best and trying his best to help you? The best that you can do is react like this? As I told you, you have a sense of entitlement, a bad temper, self centered, stubborn, I really regret I ever tried to help you. I really think you need to go to Dr Goldstein and seek his help and pay him, that being said, I do care about you and wish you the very best.
I just am a very honest and straight forward person, and this is exactly what I have experienced with you. I could have just used my knowledge of hormones to help myself and move on, I didnât have to stay behind and help people. I didnât have to spend hours of my time on the phone with you, I am not a doctor, doctorâs canât make promises, I am just another PFS sufferer like yourself who was trying to share with you what I experienced and what I know (which is a lot). I felt my knowledge should be shared, not just by post, but I gave my heart and soul to try and help you. It takes body builders months to get anywhere on a restart, it took me months to get here.
How you treat people who try to help you with volunteering their own time says a lot about you as a person. When you treat people who try to help you for free like utter garbage, they stop helping you, this is a lesson you should have learned as a little kid.
RQ, this is about the way you have treated me before, during and after, I never attacked you in any posts till your last post before this one which was contentious. Thatâs my point, you donât have to be contentious and hammer the same point over and over when all I have been trying to do is help you. It doesnât dismiss your behavior that in my attempt to help you I made a promise of a time line that did not yet unfold on 1 week. No normal person would respond like this, my promises are promises based on best guesses, to use them to attack me when I helped you out of my good will is indefensible. No one else has behaved as you have, and there is just no excuse for your behavior. I have recognized and apologized for my behavior, but your abuse towards me continues. Pfs or no Pfs, being abusive towards someone who tried to help you simply because timeline of events didnât match up is unacceptable. I did not respond to anything on the first day, had I given up I wouldnât be where I am today. Your behavior makes it impossible to help you, and you instill a sense of fear in others trying to help you as there will be consequences for new information or a change in opinion. Those consequences will be endless arguments and abuse.
Like Iâm not suffering just like you controlling estrogen, in the middle of fighting this I am trying to help you. You drained the life out of me, you need to deal with a doctor who you pay to treat you as you are too high maintenance. I admit in my selfless attempts to help others here (again) I promised it would work on you too soon. So continue harping the same point and abusing me, attack me, what a horrible person I am. Also, need I remind you that YOU sought me out for help, I did not seek you, you contacted me, I did the best I could. You havenât even given this a chance, 1 week? You are so ill tempered and unappreciative that this is what you resort to.
Shame on you
Again, I apologize for being overly optimistic of the timeline, but go to a body builder forum and tell them you havenât responded to a pct in 1 week and they will laugh you off. At some point you must take responsibility for your own actions of making a decision to try something and you have continued to do so. Yet you vitriole and contention towards me continues. I find it impossible to believe this is the first time someone has experienced this with you.
Again, Iâm sorry for trying to help you as you asked for me help and it didnât work on the first day, im sorry.
You need to rerread your post which started this where you attacked me, I never insinuated you were a âfool,â all I did was continually apologize and state that you should ride this out. There are just abusive people in the world and people who are the opposite, you are abusive. This has nothing to do with anything but that, Iâm in contact with others and they havenât behaved like this.
I am not saying this to be patronizing, but I do believe you need to be under the care of a physician like perhaps dr goldstein. You need to be in a professional setting with someone you can go back and forth with, someone you pay. Helping you is not like helping a regular person, and we all have our faults, im just saying thatâs prob the best course for you. If you wish to continue this, Iâll continue to post and you can ask questions here.
You just donât understand what you put me through man, you need someone that works for you, that you pay.
Keep doing what you are doing JQD. Your trials and experimentations are appreciated
Thanks, I appreciate the support, I am currently trying to solve the estrogen problem, it seems to be a consistent problem for all the guys I am dealing with. With a new AI I am having great success, my mood is the last thing I am trying to maintain, I have had a good and stable mood only interrupted for a few hours today till I redosed. This rebound of estrogen (which I theorize is neurosteroidal) must be solved.
Now, one thing that will help non responders is the Masteron Nuclear Option, Moonman is going to follow Suspension through and hit Masteron if it fails. This will be interesting as I know it works for sure as it bypasses 5ar altogether. I have got this far, anyone who wants to join me is welcome to. We are working to find protocols for everyone, and it is my hope many others are finding their own protocols based on our research and data.
So I just confirmed with Moonman, he agreed to follow this through suspension all the way to masteron. So I will within the next few months have proof of the nuclear option, that masteron will work in a non responsive guy by bypassing 5ar. If suspension fails he has agreed to follow this to the end. So RQ, even though we are not communicating, this research will help you if you are not able to recover 5ar activity for some reason.
So I will prove this once and for all, that masteron would work on anyone of us, but the neurosteroidal estrogen is still a problem. Even in masteron (with mood and bloating), however, muscles, penis, libido, skyrockets.
Hi JQD, youâre the man! Iâve read all of your posts in this thread and your member story. Your selfless dedication to help all of us here is incredible. Thank you!
At this point Iâm not jumping on your protocol just yet because I simply donât know where I stand. I do have low T, but donât know if I have 5ar damage too. Took the last fin almost 5 years ago. My first attempt at fixing this will be a water fast, to detox and prepare for treatment, followed by a Nolvadex restart cycle next year, for probably 2 to 3 months. Do you have any recommendations?
Thanks for the support, it means a lot, I will solve this, there is no other option for me, in the last 2 months since I figured out what all this is, I have literally been managing Pfs based on those observations. I discovered a new form of test that is living up to its expectations (at least partially), the only problem is controlling estrogen. If I have come this far in 2 months, I canât imagine in 3 months I wonât have a stable long term protocol established.
Before I started this protocol my skin was intermitently oily, so I often have sebum production now which coincides with the other positive improvements. I will be posting something tonight about an AI I have been experimenting with, the results are currently inconclusive.
Body builder science has evolved past Nolvadex and HCG to a new drug they are using called toremifene citrate (Torem), read about it, I already got mine in the mail. It does seem that all im doing is stimulating 5ar and I hope I am inducing healing and recovery. The thing I am very much excited about is the coming experiments being done on Pfs non responders. Moonman will be going for masteron if suspension doesnât work. I know from experience masteron reverses Pfs and allows us to respond to testosterone. There are some estrogen symptoms that have to be managed, but there are other dht options as well.
My goal is to prove to the forum they a non responder can be reversed with my ânuclear option,â and then others will follow and start the protocol. There are guys like Frustrated who might not want to try illegal steroids but might be able to help get some doctors to take this seriously and prescribe or legalize a prescription dht. Guys like me could be fine if there was just a 24 hour extended release arimidex pill, then I could take any form of test and wait to recover.
If we combine our resources and work together, we can go from suicides to protocols, no they wonât be perfect, but I got this far. This condition is hell, and it must be solved, if no one else is going to do it, then we will. If I were not on the protocol im on now, I would not be a muscular guy with any sexual function. My mood is sometimes great and sometimes horrible (depending on estrogen balance), itâs very disappointing when I know more then any doctor about how to treat this.
I really wish I was wrong, but my theories evolved from how I responded to things and what worked and what didnât. These horrible crashes from testosterone, figuring out they were estrogen and reversible with an AI was a turning point in this. I encourage you guys to try and induce dht and control estrogen, anyway possible. Whatâs confused some is that when you are not on testosterone you cannot take the same arimidex doses as us or you will have low estrogen and feel bad, so take small doses if natural.
Hi all. Just as a preface to this post I was encouraged by jqd to trial arimidex. My testosterone is high, above 700, as is my free t, dht etc. Etrogen low normal. All recent bloods. It was recommended that I trial arimidex and after twisting my endos arm he finally agreed.
I trialled 1 mg of arimidex last Sunday. I had been feeling ok beforehand and carried on feeling good for the next 12 hours.
By Monday evening that feeling had broken down into something pretty ghastly. I became EXTREMELY anxious and experienced full blown panic attacks for 5 days. I havenât had these for months. I was also very depressed during this time and suffered bad fatigue. I was unable to keep any food down for the past week. No appetite. Bad nausea and diarrhea too. I ve lost about 4 kg since Sunday. And I m pretty wrecked.
I put this down to lowering estrogen too low. I felt arimidex had a powerful and very negative effect on me. I feel I may be normalizing somewhat now but the last few days have been a real test of my sanity. I pretty much crashed back into hell while it was in me exerting its endocrine effect. I m still not ârightâ
If you are going to do this protocol be aware there can be a negative response which can he frightening. These are powerful drugs particularly in our fragile state.
I m not attacking jqd but just wanted to update the thread with another data point as he has not relayed what I said to him in a pm when he enquired about my response.
Deleted.
Hey finbasteride, im sorry that occurred, you will return to normal, unfortunately you took too much, I should have been more clear about taking arimidex off of testosterone. When you are on testosterone with Pfs it is nearly impossible to lower estrogen too much as it keep rebounding. Off of testosterone you are dealing with natural testosterone, so if you try this you must use much lower doses like 0.25mg. You were feeling good for 12 hours as you said, that is because you lowered estrogen enough to get yourself in that âsweet spot,â then it continued to lower and lowered too much.
Iâm very sorry about what happened, please donât throw the baby out with the bath water, you had that 12 hours. This is the balance we are working to find, that sweet spot of dht vs estrogen ratio, (on a neurosteroidal level). I understand if you are afraid to try it again, what does your doctor suggest? Your report is not the first I heard of lowering estrogen too much and having the same symptoms. All guys recovered and did not stop arimidex due to benifits (2 guys) one of them is moonman1, he can verify.
Either way you should do what you feel comfortable doing, but I am glad you got to the doctor and are being proactive about this condition. If everyone went to the doctor all over the world perhaps some doctor somewhere will come up with some useful info. Legendaryâs doctor had him on letrozole and seemed to have a similar theory as mine, I believe legendary recovered after that.
On another note, Moonman1 has acquired masteron, if he is like me, he wonât be able to resist the temptation. Even now at times im tempted, but since suspension I have been far less tempted. Finbasteride, please donât throw away those 12 hours, estrogen is the root problem we face, I have been battling it for months and every guy I have spoken to is as well. I want you to fully recover (as I do everyone else).
holy shit im glad I read that post by finbasteride.
I was gonna take .5 mg without any hrt or trt. just my natural test ya know.
but these pills r so fucking small to cut.
hate to experiment around the holidays just in case something like that happens but
I suppose .25 every day of srmidex wont do too much reduction?
AROMASIN: So I checked my logs and the whole time I had experimented with Aromasin I was on and off Masteron. Normal guys donât need to recover their dht for a month after masteron use, so I assumed it would restart as soon as I quit. Taking that into account I went against my better judgment and gave Aromasin a clean and clear try. Day one was great, I thought I had found the missing link, posted here all excited. I felt perfect! If it didnât suppress dht I would feel the same the next day. I felt it was worth trying aromasin again since my conclusions were based on tainted experiments (due to being on and off masteron).
I knew if it started shutting down my dht I would require more and more aromasin and have more and more estrogenic effects. On day 2 I was having massive estrogen rebound, bloating, horrible estrogen mood (that is feeling nothingness and misery), 5ar activity has slowed down. Aromasin is molecularly similar to dht, I had hoped it was different enough to not shut it down. Alas I donât know how much I have been set back, but please keep this in mind.
I am done with aromasin tomorrow, back to arimidex and letrozole, I am having all the signs of dht shut down that I had when I used dht before. So again, aromasin is suppressive, I really had hoped it was not. A friend of mine who does not have Pfs is quitting aromasin due to estrogen rebound (while on it). This problem doesnât just affect us, he doesnât have Pfs and is on test and high doses of all sorts of AIâs to fight gyno (as he is a model). He takes an AI and the symptoms come right back, with aromasin it is even worse, I explained to him it is probably suppressing his dht.
Back to Letro and arimidex and the drawing board, got the testosterone part figured out, but the AI part is still an on going struggle. I plan to conduct several more experiments, I will get estrogen under control. I can control it now, but itâs not practical to be taking an AI throughout the day symptomatically, I need to find something that can complete this protocol. If I could get an extended release version of arimidex, problem would be solved.
You will be fine on .25mg, if you read the medical literature about arimidex, it was studied at doses of up to 10mg a day without any problems. Def off of test you don't want to take 1mg at once, studies say even 60mg was tolerated, so maybe he is particularly sensitive to it or maybe the studies were lies or done on just women. I have never used arimidex off test, but before Pfs on test 0.5mg would be a pretty strong dose, I never imagined I would be taking the doses im taking now.
if only they had made an extended release arimidex, they even had one designed and used for research purposes. I plan to start trying every kind of AI available, initially I had built up a good amount of dht, then I got carried away. I have been on 20mg of suspension a day, it may be too much, I may lower to 10mg tomorrow.
I have to find a balance of suspension vs a reasonable AI dose, im not sure how far back aromasin set me, but I'm done with it. We simply cannot take any dht like steroids unless we plan to stay on them and replace dht. I am researching currently a new form of dht injection someone told me about that perhaps is available or not. Btw, it's not just me who says aromasin sucks, my body builder friend doesn't have Pfs and is having estrogen rebound. I wonder if Pfs will lead to better treatments for breast cancer, think about it, women can't feel their estrogen spiking like this. Maybe untreatable breast cancer is do to these rebounds that don't show in test but are perhaps neurosteroidal, makes you wonder.One more update, not sure if I mentioned that Moonman is responding to suspension in that he hasnât needed an AI in 60 hours. This means it is inducing dht via 5ar and building up a supply, so my theory is working. In my case I believe I have to lower the dose, but while Moonman is having no other responses, he has ordered masteron and test prop. Iâm not sure when, but probably in the next month Moonman will be going on âThe Nuclear Option Protocol.â This is an experiment that could help everyone, when Moonman tastes masteron he will not go off after 10 years of nothing. It will be clear evidence on a larger scale than Andractim that bypassing 5ar with synthetic dht can give non responders their lives back.
BTW, Incase I have confused some, I do still have Pfs in reversal, it simply requires me to take aiâs all throughout the day to regulate my levels. I have libido, sexual function, muscles, mood (when Iâm in balance). So my problem right now is finding a stable and dependable and predictable way of controlling estrogen. Test suspension works great, it def is less estrogenic, but my dose may be too high, I think I may cut it to 10mg tomorrow. Itâs difficult for me to lower test, thatâs the challenge with going down to 10mg a day for me, but I may have to do it and see how it unfolds. I also know this thread is very long. I intend for this thread to end with a stable working protocol. Who knows, maybe this thread will become a book one day. I have no problem with it continuing on, when Pfs first hit me, I was very confused with all the different 5 page threads. Some people want one long book to read and educate them.
keep moving those chains JQD, if theres one guy that will find it on here its you dude.
just donât do too much man, sometimes a little goes a long way ya know.
Yea, I plan to lower suspension to 10mg. For the record, any debate about aromasin not being suppressive, let me end it here. Since I started aromasin (yesterday) I have gone into an estrogen tail spin. It brought my dht back down to when I was recovering from masteron, it is absolutely suppressive of dht, most guys wouldnât notice it. In our situation if you happen to have dht active (like I do), you will notice it considering my dht is on hormonal life support. That stuff is absolutely suppressive, my body is acting like I just got off Proviron, hopefully it wonât set me back too much, be forewarned, anyone who chooses to take aromasin, you wonât go anywhere on it.
I am astonished any dr prescribes it to guys with Pfs, I mean I clearly felt this and experienced it, 1 great day following by a shut down. It was matching my limited dht and then that lowered. I really hope dr Jacobs listens to me about aromasin.
On third day of Arimidex. Just railed a girl for one hour straight with no Viagra. Again, baseline is near total impotence for me. Boner was >80-90%. Felt some desire. The teeth-grinding, smash-her type. Estrogen clearly plays a roleâŚ
Day#1 0.5mg
Day#2 0.5mg
Day#3 1mg
JQD - Just stick to a constant T dose, and then play around with AIâs. Thatâs the way to do it. Sounds like youâll need Letrozole. Try EOD. Or every third day. Itâs strong stuffâŚ
Edit: I was unusually articulate today. Creative jokes. Some levity in mood. Usually, my brain fog is deep and not much comes to mind besides normal conversational stuff. Today was differentâŚ
My last trial with Aromasin went well the first few weeks (6.25mg every third day/EOD). Good boners, some libido, some mood improvement.
Around the fourth week, boners, libido and mood declined (6.25mg-12.5mg everyday). At 12.5mg ED, the decline was noticeable. Whether it was suppressive or drove E too low, dunno.
I stopped Aromasin about 10 days ago. Dick was dead 5-6 days. Shriveled, no boners, no interest. Then flaccid fullness returned, with some libido.