Its been 48 hours since I have needed and AI. This is very strange. No other benefits tho.
Get a pill cutter from the store. It is probably 1mg pills. Cut them into fourths. Start with .25mg. I needed to take .25mg every 2-3 hours and that was without taking testosterone injections. From there you just need to try to figure out when you have low, normal and high levels based off of symptoms, which is not as easy as i sounds.
SG, I discovered a better AI, I just donāt want to announce it yet, but itās working fucking amazing, usually if something is going to work it lasts more than 3 days. Everything has always failed by day 2 or 3 with estrogen, so far so good and on day 2, really impressed.
RQ, itās been a week man! Body builders take months to do restarts, itās going to obviously take months if it doesnāt work right away. Body builders do pctās of all kinds and always takes months, took me 2 months to restart my dht, so be patient, unless you have a better protocol you plan to try. If it doesnāt work in 3 months then I would move into masteron and bypass 5ar all together. I would stop going by day by day response though, thatās where a lot of guys here have just failed. Hormonal restarts can take months. My progress came more monthly, it was very slow, I told you that with prop it took me a month to feel anything.
That means your dht is building up and killing off estrogen, good sign, test is prob dropping too low (which is fine for now), you need test to feel anything from dht. We will give it time then add more test, or see if your system once it builds up enough dht starts having more benifits. We will see if you are a responder or a non responder. If you are a non responder like my friend, masteron will work, but you will require that long term. It will work though, my friend gave up on trying to restart his dht but he had masteron and gave up after 2 weeks and hit masteron and thatās it, he is not living reversed.
True, it could take months to improve but you have to admit, you should at least feel something when you are on the protocol, even if it has only been a week. How else did you know to carry on with your protocols and know they were benefitting unless you were listening to your body.
Bloodwork isnāt very helpful with PFS tumble, unfortunately as it seems these problems are neurosteroidal (as that one PFS study confirms). So while hormones may show up normal, it wonāt reflect neurosteroids, so with the absence of cerebral fluid and a spectrometer lol, we have to go by how we feel, that is the best way anyway (once you learn the signs). That is how I have been able to get so far with PFS.
JQD if this problem is all about estrogen dominance and neurosterodial and
not a mutation of androgen receptors, did Jacobs confirm this or at least entertain that notion.
that was one thing he and I did not discuss
I only ask because ive already read all through this forum and cant go back and search, its wayyy too long lol
I was so convinced that it was
he pretty much told me he and his nurse are working on a paper that involves epigenetic changes and what not.
not sure if this is the same or at least involved somehow or completely separated from your theory
Yes, he found my theory interesting and intriguing, but there is no way to know anything for sure as it is theory. In my experience it is nothing to do with androgen receptors as I was non responsive like everyone else when I was on test alone. Only way I was able to have the slightest response to test was with HGH or anti estrogens at high doses. I had the same symptoms and responses as guys here who say they are androgen non responsive, then by adding masteron ontop of test everything reversed in 3 weeks. Now with suspension the same thing is occurring, but I am 2 weeks into this.
I believe the prob is 5AR suppression, some guys have become so neurostrogen dominance that they cannot respond to test that easily. The PFS neurosteroid study confirms my theory, and if moonman is non responsive after a month or so, he agreed to use my nuclear option masteron protocol, that will disprove the androgen receptor thing.
I went for bloodwork the day before starting Propionate and it isnāt back yet. But that will give me a good look at what all of my levels were before trying this stuff. I will then get more blood work and compare.
In my case, blood levels actually are somewhat useful. While itās true that I previously raised my T level through the roof and felt nothing, itās also true that the one time a T injection did work for me ā in November 2012 ā there were some dramatic and potentially revealing changes in my levels. Specifically, my SHBG, which had been between 48 and 50 every time tested (on a scale of 50), suddenly fell to 20. And then, when I stopped feeling the T, it immediately returned to near 50. What exactly this means, I donāt know. But itās a significant change related to the T working. I also am monitoring my T/DHT ratio and there are several other values that, in my case, have fluctuated with treatments and are worth keeping tabs on.
JQD now writes as if Iām a fool for thinking I might feel something after a month of heavy AI dosing and 8 days of Propionate/Suspension. Iāll spare you a recounting of the countless times he previously assured me that, under his theory, Iād definitely respond right away to both of them. In each case, he then backed off and recalibrated the timeline substantially, eventually telling me that only after months of continued use I might feel something. Not that heās wrong to lower the bar like that; actually, it seems heās landed in a more rational place.
But hereās the thing: I kind of figured that this was the case all along. My own expectation was not that Propionate and Suspension would work right away. In fact, I was quite skeptical when JQD would insist to me that they would. And I wasnāt surprised when I felt nothing. Thatās why Iām still taking Suspension and will see what happens.
That said: I agree with the poster who said itās suspicious that I havenāt felt anything yet. As Iāve said, thereās zero indication this is doing anything. The experience is the same as when I would take a Cypionate injection: Iād feel nothing. Itās as if my body doesnāt even recognize that itās being flooded with testosterone. I remember when that first T shot worked: There was no doubt about it. The system, for whatever reason, kicked in, I was suddenly getting hard all the time, jerking off constantly, etc, and my bloodwork normalized in some interesting ways ā there are numbers that moved to match how I was feeling. Maybe that will happen with this with time. And maybe it wonāt.
Bloodwork isnāt very helpful with PFS tumble, unfortunately as it seems these problems are neurosteroidal (as that one PFS study confirms). So while hormones may show up normal, it wonāt reflect neurosteroids, so with the absence of cerebral fluid and a spectrometer lol, we have to go by how we feel, that is the best way anyway (once you learn the signs). That is how I have been able to get so far with PFS.
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RQ get over it already, who gives a shit what I told you, are you 2 years old? You are an adult, do you have to go over the same point over and over that I told you (btw that prop would take 30 days) but suspension would work right away? So what if it doesnāt? You know how many people I am in communication with who I told the same thing to and instead of going nuts over it they just continued on waiting for it to work?
Either it works or it doesnāt work, or it works right away or it takes months, but to hammer the same point over and over ābut you said bla bla bla,ā you sound like a broken record. Ok, I am sorry for extending myself to you, giving you hours of my time on the phone losing many nights I could have gone on dates or gone out with friends. Text arguing with you for hours and hours to try and reassure you, I have never had this experience trying to help someone in my entire life.
You know I am really tired of your hostility towards me, this entire thing has been all about RQ, you were non responsive for 2.5 years, but I said this would work right away and it didnāt. I posted that I reversed on this date, I posted that, you are so fucking hostile and I am sure I am not the first person to tell you this in your life. I have spent my life helping people, and the few times I have been treated like this by someone I tried to help, they were often very abusive people. PFS aside, you need to re-evaluate your behavior, I am not getting paid, Dr jacobs is and Dr Goldstein is, I have never met someone so hostile in my life.
If you think I am dishonest and untrustworthy, then go to Dr Goldstein, go on his cypionate with arimidex and order andractim off the internet. You should have never even said one bad word to me after how I extended myself to helping you, the only thing you should be typing is āthank you,ā but instead you attack me as if you paid me and I was working for you and I screwed up. No, I volunteered my time to help you, and so what if it didnāt work on the first day?
I canāt deal with you anymore, I assume I am not the first person in your life who has been through this, now you have nothing because you will have to go through someone else to get help with Masteron. Donāt tell me how you said āthank you,ā mistreating me with verbal abuse for hours is not being thankful, and your attitude towards me is just plain shitty. I have told you this before and I will say it again, you are an extremely selfish person, there are lots of guys on here that I am dealing with that are really fucked up really bad. It isnāt all about RQ and RQās response and what you were promised, this isnāt a fucking business deal! Or a sales transaction, it is my fucking volunteering my time to help you and trying the best I can and hoping it works.
Now that it didnāt work on the first day like I hoped, you have behaved like usual, an ungrateful spoiled child, and never in all my conversations with you have I seen one hint that you care about anyone but yourself and your own interests. I told you this privately and I am saying it now, this is how you operate. Right now you stopped responding to my texts and stopped texting me, but as soon as you start to respond or see that Masteron works, you will start texting me again because I will become useful.
I am NOT unaccustomed to dealing with people and understanding different types of people, and I have observed this behavior in you from the moment I met you. I tried very hard to help you, but you are so combative and self centered that you make it impossible. You are so convinced that you cannot respond to anything that you donāt have any patience and set yourself up for failure. So what you havenāt responded for 2.5 years, Moonman hasnāt responded for 10 years! Depressed guy is half dead, his libido at this point is a luxury.
You are LUCKY I approached you and tried to help you after your becoming angry on here initially, I mean you become angry and abusive and you just donāt recognize that behavior in yourself. You arenāt the only one here with PFS, I have it too, I have managed to reverse it, it did not happen on the first day. I am sorry I was over excited and had hoped it would work on the first day, optimism is not a bad thing, but no one else has reacted the way you have. While I am sure in detail you can recount our numerous conversations and my promises that donāt line up to what you expected. You sound like you fucking bought a car from me and got fucked over, when I was volunteering my time and experiences to try and help you. There is NO EXCUSE for your behavior, none, and when you decide you want to try masteron or with Suspension starts working, donāt bother contacting me, I donāt need to volunteer my time to be abused. While your interpretation of it is not abuse, it is abuse if the person on the receiving end feels abused multiple times.
You need to sort out a lot more than PFS, how you treat people and perceive yourself and others I would say for starters. Lots of guys here have PFS, and they do not act like an asshole, so I am sorry you didnāt respond on the first day and I said I would. Why donāt you ask for a refund, oh wait, you didnāt pay me anything, so then why are you mad? That some stranger on the internet took hours and days of his time to try his best and trying his best to help you? The best that you can do is react like this? As I told you, you have a sense of entitlement, a bad temper, self centered, stubborn, I really regret I ever tried to help you. I really think you need to go to Dr Goldstein and seek his help and pay him, that being said, I do care about you and wish you the very best.
I just am a very honest and straight forward person, and this is exactly what I have experienced with you. I could have just used my knowledge of hormones to help myself and move on, I didnāt have to stay behind and help people. I didnāt have to spend hours of my time on the phone with you, I am not a doctor, doctorās canāt make promises, I am just another PFS sufferer like yourself who was trying to share with you what I experienced and what I know (which is a lot). I felt my knowledge should be shared, not just by post, but I gave my heart and soul to try and help you. It takes body builders months to get anywhere on a restart, it took me months to get here.
How you treat people who try to help you with volunteering their own time says a lot about you as a person. When you treat people who try to help you for free like utter garbage, they stop helping you, this is a lesson you should have learned as a little kid.
I imagine money isnāt the primary issue for the vast majority of people on this forum. The problem is having oneās hope built up and being crushed again and again. Simply seeing doctors for consultations and having them come up with no solutions is depressing enough even they when they never made any promises or assurances they they would be able to help.
JQD - itās really easy to solve this problem and just change your attitude. I wouldnāt call your approach or language optimistic even because its based on a lot of faith and little evidence at this point.
I pushed back on you heavily to try and prevent people like RecentQuitter from being so disappointed and emotionally manipulated. It was and is nothing personal really.
Merck could end up paying out huge sums of money but the truth is they will never be able to reverse the emotional damage and loss of livelihood they incurred on PFS victims. Assuming your motives are in good faith, it is nice that you spent time trying to help people but I completely understand why RecentQuitter is so upset with you.
About the people I have met on here and spoken to and tried to help, all have been gracious and very nice people, in the case of RQ, he was very combative with me on here with me for a long time. I felt I would go out of my way to try and make friends wit him and help him, I was never able to make friends with him, I tried my best to help him. Not a person here is unaware that I have said there is a nuclear option for non-responders (least of all RQ). While I do not yet believe there are non-responders, if there are, we know how to get them to respond using masteron and testosterone.
I have been told my whole life that going out of my way to help people will just backfire in my face, it usually does. You should expect to see a long and detailed response to my post to RQ attacking me in every sort of way. So keep this in mind anyone if you decide to go out of your way to help someone on here.
I will continue to work with the guys I am in contact with and helping, so far all of them have had some sort of response, though they are minimal right now, and only moonman is on suspension, someone else is starting it soon. Since I figured out how to get Masteron to work with PFS, I am sharing that with moonman in case he does not respond after a month or so to this protocol.
I have figured out how to control estrogen with suspension, so I have completed the protocol, and it is working really well, but it is extremely unfortunate the way this forum is. I am going to give it 3 more weeks, if this protocol continues to work stable for 3 weeks, I will post it here and then finally move on. I will continue to help moonman and the others I am talking to and they can post. I have grown to like lots of guys here, I think this place can be a place of hope and of recovery. If my protocol works on even 1/3 of the guys here, that is significant. We know Masteron works on guys who have been shut down and non responsive initially (when done right), I think that option should be posted and available here.
I hate to go on knowing what I know and not sharing it, but the few guys I am in contact with are enough, in time their experiences will help others here.
Frustrated, I understand where you are coming from and I tried to change my tone based on your suggestions, but without giving out personal experiences about RQ. He from day one has had an issue of arguing in circles about points for hours and hours, like points that donāt matter. He is an intelligent guy, but neurotic and extremely OCD, so I have a big heart and I spent hours responding to him and trying to reassure him.
I told him my experiences in detail on the phone, for hours and hours, many nights I ended up staying home because it took so many hours to talk to him. He behavior is not normal as I am helping lots of guys, there would be circular arguments about his experiences vs mine and the arguments are difficult to relay as they were not really based on logical points. I am a very empathetic person, so I felt I could make him feel better, give him some optimism. The conversations usually were questioning my integrity, and his fears about non response.
He was always trying to find reasons why things would not work or cannot work, he was already setup for failure, if you go on bodybuilder sites and read guys who are doing PCTās, no one recovers in 1 week. He went over my past posts where I said I had PFS in reverse many times, I never posted my negative experiences on here till recently, and I explained that to him. I was non responsive to testosterone (except when I used HGH or different modulations and got one response one night out of one week). I would be so happy I would post that I reversed PFS, and I did, but it did not last, these experiences were what brought me to where I am today. The night before he tried suspension, I was in tears after talking to him. He literally went through every post I ever made yelling at me about how I said I was non responsive and yet here I am saying I reversed PFS and am recovering. I explained to him it was a very hard time and posting was therapy for me, and when I managed to reverse PFS for 1 hour or 1 night, I believed I had reversed it, I could not imagine the next day it would come back.
He tried to say I was lying because I was in fact responding to testosterone where he was not, but no other human being does NOT respond to testosterone except maybe one hour or one night out of a week after taking tons of different hormones that induced a response. That does not make me responsive, since he was on cypionate for months doing nothing else, I was on enanthate and nothing occurred till I started remodulating things, 1 hour or 1 night out of a week with an explanation why, is not response. He attacked me so long and so hard that I was crying that whole night after I got off the phone with him and it set me back, but he said he felt better after the phone call, this is what a selfish person does, I have met many in my life.
I have been recovering myself, I managed to reverse this, I was afraid to tell him anything different, if I told him I thought Suspension might take longer I would be in for 10000 more questions and another 4 hours of arguing by text and by phone. It wasnāt like I could say āwell, I think it could take longer,ā I tried saying that and he would say āwait a minute, but you said it would work right away, now you are saying it could take longer?ā I tried initially to tell him I thought it would take 1 or 2 weeks if not the first day, and he set me up in an argument where I became afraid to tell him things as it would result in hours long arguments via text and the phone.
They werenāt based on logic but on his fears, they were illogical arguments that he setup to try and rationalize illogical fears. PFS is PFS, but people are people, and I am just telling you like it is, I am helping lots of other guys and you donāt see hostile posts from them on here. Moonman for example has had this for 10 years and his post was very positive. RQ is not a child, but he is used to getting whatever he wants, so he does not appreciate peopleās time and efforts. When one expects things handed to them, they often do not appreciate when people do things or give things to them, simply saying āthank you,ā is not good enough.
He is extremely neurotic, and governed by a constant state of fear that he has had pre-PFS, I kept this in mind and tried to help him. It very well may be (like me) that he will respond in a month or 2, but instead he has made a huge deal about 1 week and potentially ruining the entire thing for himself and others. I reversed PFS, it has not been easy, it has been very hard, it was a long and difficult journey. I have finally found the missing link to solving estrogen, and I will post it once confirmed. However, RQ is who he is, aside from PFS, this is who he is as a person, I never had any ill intent, and there was no excuse for him to behave the way he has after 1 week.
Most importantly, as I said, he stopped responding to me, and when he starts responding to suspension or sees monomaniaās Masteron success protocol, he will then contact me. No one likes to be used and mistreated, it has nothing to do with PFS, but common courtesy and how you treat other people. Plenty of guys here are VERY bad off and none of them would behave like this towards someone trying to help them for free, asking for nothing in return, and in fact spending money to help them.
The issue here is unrelated to PFS, it has to do with how you treat other people. I told him many times no other people I am dealing with behave like him towards me, and no one did or does. We are all in this together, I managed to find a way out of this, he is hardly a stupid person or a poor person, he is smart enough to understand my theories and where I am coming from and that he hoped he would respond. Exploding and going crazy after not responding from the first shot because I said I thought he would after all I have done for him is out of line, no normal human being would do that. Like I said, this isnāt about PFS or false hopes, it is about how one human being should treat another trying to help them. I canāt even imagine someone here reaching out to me, calling me, doing everything they could to help me, spending money on me and then lashing out at them when things didnāt work right away as they said. Who would? He has to re-evaluate his behavior, some people are just like this, and it is certainly not the first person like this I have met.
I havenāt cried in 10 years, it takes a lot to put me into tears, making him feel better, taking my entire night from me, so that by 11:45 I couldnāt go out, I went back home after being verbally attacked and who was there to console me? I cried a lone, but RQ felt better after the call. I tried to make friends with him, but the conversations were always straight to the point and revolved around his fears, he is governed by fear, and I believe he can recover. If he doesnāt with suspension, he can with masteron, but I canāt help him anymore, he wore me down. I am saying this as people here should understand where I am coming from with respect to his comments.
That being said, my intent was not to attack RQ, but to explain how I was treated and feel.
Currently I am on day 2 of a completely stable estrogen control, in order to temper my response I will post after a few more days, but I believe I found a very easy way to use suspension while dealing with estrogen, suspension plus one AI.
How many people will respond to this protocol? I donāt know, but I am, and we have a few guys on it who will be starting the AI soon. Before I do move on, I want to make sure my non-response nuclear option protocol is used and posted here to help the many non-responders here (RQ included)
I will state for the record I CARE ABOUT RQ, I want him to get better, nothing I said means I donāt want him to recover, I have a duty to get my protocol out here to people, and the nuclear option one as well. My progress is just getting better every day, I am not sure if my theories are correct and my system is recovering, or this protocol is just amazing, but I will be posting soon.
RQ, while you may hate me, you can read my progress on this forum and get updates on what to do from Moonman, I believe in being straight forward, and telling people straight up how I feel. Yes I made hopeful promises, but the intent was good, in 2 months you could be where I am, and if not you will be with masteron, and that will be publicly proven soon with moonman.
Frustrated, I am trying to change, my negative experiences with RQ are unrelated to PFS, all of the abuse and the mistreatment occurred before he tried Suspension for the first time. I am going to continue my experiments and research but will be continuing to change the way I speak about them. As now I have found a way to stabilize estrogen with suspension, but I am tempering my response and not posting for a few more days or more.