Frustrated, do you see what I mean now about arimidex and estrogen rebound with pfs? My best guess is it’s neurosteroidal. I know based on personal experience and what I have heard from guys that a simple 24 hour extended release version of arimidex would allow us to respond to normal testosterone normally. The dosage could be different depending on the person, but I can tell you that if I take test enanthate I require very frequent dosing to respond to it. Suspension is different as I am still figuring it out, on it alone I don’t believe I’ll require as much.
Do you see what I meant about the differences in testosterone forms? I need help here, moonman is having trouble finding his sweet spot of arimidex and test, to get his balance right. If there were an extended release arimidex, a low dose that released steady, it would block all the estrogen and we would respond to any form of test.
I know this based on my experiences and also masteron is a depo estrogen blocker, on it I responded to enanthate. The only problem is its dht, so it shut down my dht, so I have tried to work with what’s readily available. What I believe happens is the 5ar in our brain being suppressed then allows for test to be aromatized. We know neurosteroids respond to androgens and anti androgens, and we on test doing this are all requiring redosing of arimidex frequently.
It’s to lower the Neuro steroidal estradiol (estrogen), I know you want to see more evidence, but it’s coming as there is a third I am working with who also is learning how to respond to test with arimidex. If we could get such a pill made, and every pfs guy went on a good dose of testosterone, enough would reduce to dht and start reversing everhthing.
I have all the same symptoms as you guys, when I get my estrogen low and induce dht and 5ar, all the problems reverse. I apologize for my past behavior, but this place was so gloomy, I had to bring hope back and get people to start believing again, and I already have had positive reports from this. Guys who felt nothing would work are trying things that are making them feel better.
This forum has for far too long been a place of hopelessness, I understand I was acting too charismatic, but hormones can alter you when you have dht boosted like that. As for run on sentences, im usually responding on my iPhone hanging out downtown and I just am careless with how I type on my phone, I have apologized in the past for that. As for being bi polar, that’s not the case, when my dht is surging I feel great and overly confident. If you notice ihatepropecia types with a certain level of optimism and confidence, it’s the dht.
That aside, I do drink a tea that is served at a kava bar downtown called Kratom and it does make me pretty wired. I am a pretty balanced guy, if you ask recentquitter he will tell you on the phone I am entirely different. I’m glad we can get along, I think if more people start this protocol we can have a better picture. So far I have seen several guys say they plan to start, anyone who plans to start suspension, can you post and let us know?
Very sorry to hear that. Can you get some bloodwork done? I suspect estrogen is too high (for you), and would benefit from a stronger AI. Namely, Letrozole.
To me, that the Cypionate worked and then faded after a week or so, gives me a strong suspicion it’s the estrogen.
You and JQD are taking HUGE amounts of AI. This is another interesting correlative. Another interesting correlate is JQD nearly erased his estrogen right before he experienced great success with Prop + Suspension. This stands out to me as well.
I’m happy to report my mood seems to have stabilized and I feel good after taking the right dose of AI, I have never had this much 5ar activity since before pfs. My skin is so oily im breaking out, dht is high and all other symptoms are improving. I am rather fascinated with test suspension and becoming more confident about how this is evolving.
I have never had this strong and steady reaction to testosterone like I am having since before pfs, I will write more details later.
Hey tumble, he took Letro before hand, the problem is he has been non responsive for 2.5 years and his will is a bit broken. He is very upset with me for saying that he would recover with one shot, I should have watched my words. Originally I told him he would need to do prop for 30 days to restart his dht. After he did not feel anything with suspension he got upset with me, but if he stays on it for 3 months, during this time he will definitely have improvements.
I believe that he is definitely suffering from neurosteroidal estrogen dominance as he responded normally to the first cypionate shot when he took it a while back. He stayed on it without enough ai and cypionate is highly estrogenic, even normal guys stay away from it due to estrogen sides. It amazes me how little these doctors know about hotmones like Goldstein and Dr Jacobs using cypionate vs at least enanthate or propionate.
Once you go on cypionate for that long and then stop and stay off, there is a huge surge in estrogen and in our condition I believe it creates an estrogen dominance paradox (if you will). His 5ar is suppressed and most test is being aromatized and the estrogen is shutting everything else down. With the extent of estrogen dominance he has and the amount of time he has been shut down, he needs a good 3 months to restart his system.
I don't want the point to be brought up again that I told him he would respond on the first day, I know I made a mistake saying that, I was excited and my heart was in the right place. However, it took me 2 months to get here. He needs to continuously lower estrogen and induce 5ar and dht to start restoring his system. Moonman has already had some positive responses, it is too soon and all, but it is exciting nevertheless. If after 3 months RQ does not respond still, the next protocol should be masteron or Primobolan with testosterone. With that combo there is no way he won't respond as it bypasses 5ar all together. I have experienced it myself, I had virtually no 5ar activity and my dht was shit down, yet I had super libido and penis sensitivity and orgasm after orgasm and huge muscle gains.
This is why I do not believe this is nerve damage at all, when I took propecia for the second time my dick became curved and shorter and thin, it was horrible. I should have documented it, but I was too embarrassed to type it here. At the time I did not know what I know now about estrogen dominance etc. I was on test enanthate and after injecting masteron propionate (about 50mg 3x a week) my dick came back full force. I had ultra sensitivity, muscles blew up, but unlike now where I am inducing my own 5ar and thus dht, I had virtually no sebum production.
Clearly my 5ar was completely bypassed, I did have water retention and emotional estrogen symptoms as my own dht shut down. It's worth noting that masteron is not dht, it is a close copy. Real dht (like proviron) actually irreversibly suicide inhibits estrogen (vs blocks it). So with masteron you will have libido, sexual function, sensitivity, and muscles, but you will need to manage the emotional estrogen and water retention. If it were actual dht injection, then you would not need an AI. There are so many ways to treat pfs, and doctors just don't know about these types of hormones, it is rather sad.
An injectable form of Proviron would be all you needed with test, but such does not exist. You will find an injectable proviron, but it's not dht, it's testosterone with the same name. Primobolan for example, it is a very effective form of dht, I have a bottle, but I have never had a chance to experiment with it. As you know I am restoring my own 5ar and dht, but Eden used Primobolan and had the best response of any steroid he ever used.
If used with testosterone, any guy with pfs would respond. The fact that RQ responded the first time shows that he can respond and the receptors are there, it's just estrogen dominance. It's going to take time and patience, but I believe he can reboot, but if not this would work. Goldstein even tells patients to buy andractim off the internet, but that is a crappy gel, a depo injection of a dht hormone would he so much more effective.
There simply are no doctors here that know about this stuff as dht is not used in modern medicine. It was originally used to treat breast cancer in women, these days they have designed drugs that have no virilization. It's worth noting I have tried this masteron protocol on a friend with pfs and he responded the same as me, but he has chosen to reboot his dht like I am.
It's a shame when there are ways to get guys their life back, and im working alone, with just a few guys. I would be happy to tell any doctor who wants to know how to reverse pfs with masteron and test. If others here joined me and the guys who are working with me, we could find more protocols and better ones. I know myself that I am on the right path based on my own reversal, I know I have to temper my responses and promises and try not to speak with certainty. I really don't care who gets credit for solving this, I just wish more people would join me.
Testosterone suspension has been a game changer for me, there is the estrogen issue, but I seem to have eliminated the sadness with enough arimidex. Since I have propionate in my system I will wait till it wears off before I start documenting doses again here. I also wanted to say that while 10mg of suspension is a good dose, I had very good responses to 20mg, remember that we do not reduce all the test to dht. So while 20mg may be a potent dose of suspension for a normal guy, in our case it may be a more tempered dose due to our limited 5ar production.
I actually was doing really well with just suspension and didn't even need AI's, it's the emotional stuff I need it for. I may try calcium d Glucarate alone 3-4x a day with just suspension, and dose arimidex till I find the minimal effective dose. I'm also looking into newer and better AI's that would work for us. I'm wondering about a very low dose of Letro, let it get steady state, but while Letro is effective, it does affect the libido. It seems the best AI is arimidex, im also going to look into Torem, the drug body builders are using to restore natural testosterone, it's also an estrogen blocker.
I feel the testsoterone question is solved, now it's just a matter of finding the best Ai or AI combo. With arimidex, you need to multi dose, and estrogen rebounds with our condition im an hour. However, if we induce enough dht with suspension, over the course of a few weeks we should require less AI as we have more dht.DHEA:
For you guys experiencing emotional flatness all the time, I wanted to mention that while on testosterone, DHEA really does improve mood quite a bit, you can try off of testosterone as well. It improves libido, muscle, everything, but it unfortunately is very estrogenic. I tend to go through periods where I cycle on and off it, I may try it with suspension just to see how they go together. DHEA always made me feel better in every way (50mg a day), I had thought of it tonight, how many of you may benefit from it.
SUSPENSION:
Testosterone Suspension is really shaping up nicely, I started taking Calcium D Glucarate 1500mg 3-4x a day and I feel great, it really is keeping the estrogen under control, with some arimidex as well. While everything else has improved since day 1, my mood is really starting to stabilize and feel normal and happy. I have not experienced much joy at all in the past 6 months, that is something about suspension I noticed, I experience joy when estrogen is in balance. There may be something to the sadness and joy thing.
It would be nice if we had more people to test this out, I have 1 more guy who has yet to start, but anyone around here who plans to start anytime soon, let us know.
Jqd one guy that is 95% cured took this calcium his name is beekay. He feets in the theory about increasing androgen receptors, if you check his posts, before he tried hcg while on pfs and nothing, then on testo-boosters he injected hcg and felt a huge libido increase.
Dude, Beekay said the hcg started working after he started progesterone. He may have also been on test boosters, but he considered prog the main reason why hcg was working so much better 2nd time around.
I did neglect to mention that I have been on DHEA 25-50mg almost every day for a couple weeks.
JQD, do u think maybe that’s why I had a high estradiol reading?
I just completed a cycle of HCG and I found it only worked when I used progesterone to control the estrogen, without it I felt awful, with it I felt pretty good.
Entropy: I know that, but check also Elb, he used progesterone cream before and it made him worse, after using it with test-boosters it magically made him cured, doesn’t it feel strange? I also know several people with problems with AR and when they used test-boosters with testosterone injection they finally felt the testosterone and before that they wouldn’t feel the T injection, just like beekay.
Brongfogboy you said to me once that your problems wasn’t severe that you could have sex with not issues it means to me that you’re AR is not so screwed like mine and others that don’t respond to testosterone injections, HCG with AI etc. And also you’re doing the progesterone protocol for a long time and it didn’t work like others that felt a huge up and down so maybe we’re missing something. Of course I’m not saying I know what is behind all of that because if I knew it I would not be here and I would create a thread about my recovery, but I just think that AR is a huge factor, maybe JQD got it back with his firsts protocols with HGH stimulation and now he is responding to T again, I don’t know.
indeed, Beekay used pretty big doses of progesterone daily; 50mg pregnenolene cream (precursor of progesterone, also important neurosteroid), pregnenolene caps 50 mg + progesterone 20mg for six months. also used some testo boosters and anti estrogens (tamoxifen).
One of the functions of progesterone is to protect the body against high levels of estrogen. Low progesterone levels create a hormonal imbalance that leads to estrogen dominance.
the research told us we got low progesterone so the estrogen can easy become dominant.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7026&hilit=progesterone+beekay&start=780
what i think is strange is that if our 5ar is damaged, how it is possible that you feel pre-fin if you inject testosterone suspension. because that says that the 5ar is just working fine but only does the job when we create a different testosterone/estrogen/… ratio that it gets triggered. if it was damaged you shouldnt feel anything i think. recent quitter also said he felt pre fin with his first testosterone shot but then got back to his shitty state and remained that way. how is that possible if his 5ar was damaged, it suddenly worked again? maybe he created a new balance neurosteriodal that triggered to wrok again. do believe this is neurosteroidal,but damaged 5ar… dont know. dont think it is that easy as only testosterone/estrogen
So what about the Masteron option guys? It seems that everyone gets a response from that one. I got Suspension on the way, but like the homie Tumble said I would prefer not to gain weight. I was a lean 185lbs, now I’m pushing 210…straight flab from what use to be muscle. Can Masteron be used in an HRT protocol or is it too damaging? JQD said it’s use could shut down our own DHT production, is there any possibility it could trigger our own DHT production? Thanks fellas, stay positive, hope everyone has a good weekend.
DHEA makes me feel like a slug. If ever there was anything that exacerbated the “brain fog” symptoms for me, DHEA does it and takes a good 24 hours to wear off.
JQD had stated that you should be taking some sort of estrogen inhibitor or suppressor with dhea like arimidex. Were you taking anything along with it?
Hey perfectgent, I know how to make masteron work, but it’s something you shouldn’t move into until you have tried suspension. Suspension I believe will work in most guys, some may take longer than others. If after 3 months it doesn’t work, then you take the dht masteron road, but I have gained a lot of muscle mass with suspension.
Hey there, that's the point of my protocol, to stimulate 5ar and induce dht, if you read my theories it will make sense, though I know the thread is long. Start on page 3 and read on and you will know all you need to know.PEOPLE!!!
please now, we cant all start jumping off the ship none of us, with the exception of 2 or 3 ppl, are on because the first couple days didn’t work out absolutely perfectly.
This Will Take Time!!!
I admit id be disappointed too if I didn’t feel the instant beast after the first shot of Suspension.
but now im starting to wonder IF JQD is getting a response because he was on so much stuff including the HGH precursors before this protocol…he might have healed something log before all of this. I don’t know, im not making accusations just saying maybe its true.
and also if this is at all an Androgen receptor thing. I just don’t know anymore. I certainly hope not about the AR thing.
Anyway, Jacobs is leaving on vacation and I knew this was gonna happen. now I have to wait even longer for him to tell me what he thinks at all. Hes a good man but im very impatient.
maybe in the mean time use some calcium d glucarate but im not familiar with it at all. however I def remember someone on here saying that
it makes the PDE5’S work better
SG, you have to look out for yourself, lots of guys here just are hopeless and it's sad. Suspension has reversed my pfs after 2 months of restarting my dht with test prop and ai's, this isn't going to work overnight. What about moonman's results? 10 years he was shut down and he had some very compelling results on day 2!. This takes time guys, that's why no one got anything to work here, hormones don't work instantly.
With pfs there is recovery that has to occur, suspension is working for me, but if I started with suspension and not with prop, I would still have a restart to go through. You need to give this 3 months like I did, then if it doesn't work we can discuss masteron. This is far from a failed experiment, 1 reversed, moonman already had progress and RQ only tried suspension now for like 2 days! And if you include prop that's only a week total! Come on.
What happened to the old days when guys gave a protocol a few months? Nothing is going to work in just one day after years of shutdown.
Let's keep going, it took me a couple months to get here, and if this doesn't work for some then we will get those guys on masteron and I will help, let's keep going till everyone is reversed and all options are exhausted. I have never had such amazing results with a hormone after pfs like suspension, but 2 months of prop and it wasn't working on day one, took a while.You have claimed this many times about many different substances. People on this thread seem to have amnesia…
I appreciate the reassurance JQD also
UPDATE!!!
Jacobs nurse Anne has called in my Armidex into my pharmacy and all I have to do is pick it up. not sure what dosage they prescribed.
so, can ANYONE give me some info on this. As in how they have felt on it or side effects?
Also, I really hope Armidex doesn’t behave the same has Fin did, ya know fucking with receptors or some other shit, input???
Also, my testosterone levels are fine its Estradio that is high.
how do I take Armidex.? Will it help with Libido? I don’t know shit about this stuff boys