I’m glad we’ve got someone else here besides had with steroid experience. So the low dose cruises work best along with a short to no ester matched with a very low dose of a longer ester plus AI. I am starting Arimidex today. 0.5 mg a day for a weeek and see how I feel
Yes, you are right ihatepropecia, I am feeling great today, LOTS of 5ar activity and high libido, same circumstances when I first injected. Also, 10mg of suspension vs prop is totally different, works much better, so I am thinking about 5mg of enanthate a week (or twice a week) with 10mg of suspension daily.
Keep levels stable, the prop I injected was 15mg yesterday, so it is at about 5mg right now blood plasma level wise, so this will keep stability. I am going to fine tune the prop dose before I go and inject enanthate, I want to make sure the dose is right, so I will prob start with the lowest dose.
We are very close here gentlemen, the only thing now is figuring out the ai, no physical estrogen symptoms, just emotional, so may try a low dose of letro 1.25mg daily or arimidex a few times a day, I will figure it out. I would prefer it to be arimidex.What about the other two ones that you helped getting a hold to the test suspension? Have they tried it yet?
When I cruise on just prop, I have less water and retain gains.
When I cruise on a mix of prop with low dose long ester, I have slightly more water, but can build more, not just keep gain, but build. Also, I need a little more AI when on the prop+long ester combo.
You’ll get it dialed in bro.
Hey JQD, do you feel the suspension fades away later in the day? If thats the case why not split the dose…maybe you dont like the idea of two injections a day?
Im thinking 15mg a day of suspension plus AI as needed is what you should try for a while. You basically got carried away and almost tripled your testosterone dosage and took away your AI, of course you had an estrogen surge. Remember because suspension has no ester you get like 20% more testosterone mg per mg compared to propionate… 15mg suspension a day is about equal to the 20mg of prop you were doing before dosage wise.
If you really MUST throw an ester in there to provide a baseline Im thinking 10mg prop, 10mg suspention per day…but i think you might be jumping to that conclusion hastily.
also smear some on your junk;)
Yea, I decided I am going to let prop wear off, and retry suspension alone again, I did quit all AI’s and it just hit me all at once with no physical symptoms (which was weird but prob neurosteroidal). I am going to retry suspension alone and keep up the AI, then I will perhaps try splitting the dose (I have no prob with 2 injections a day).
If the same thing occurs or I feel empty or low, I will try a tiny dose of prop (like 5mg) and then suspension with it, we are very close here, just have to clarify a few things here. Today I felt great, got some estrogen feeling, but it was the kind I get from prop (not the suspension sadness), so I took some Letro (2.5mg) and will try to taper off Letro and onto arimidex with the suspension.
First I think I will try Letro with suspension alone to see if the sadness is all estrogen and not testosterone dropping dramatically or fluctuating. Once I figure that out I will either use prop or suspension alone with an AI and try to move to arimidex.
Also, I actually inject at night rather than the morning as I find I get the most depressed at night and low testosterone or DHT, that’s why I changed to the night, and it carries over to the morning.
Also yea I do feel suspension fading, but it is hard to gauge that yet as my DHT was high, and I wasn’t sure if it was estrogen, I will find that out in the next week or two of experimenting and report progress. There are 2 others working on this, moonman is one of them.
UPDATE!!! GREAT NEWS!!!
MOONMAN1 who has been shut down for 10 years has started having sexual benefits on the same timeline as me after taking enough arimidex and finding the sweet spot, super hard erection, fucked his girlfriend for 3 hours, got her off 3 times, he will be posting soon!!!
Hell Yea!!! That’s what I’m talking about. 
Got my syringes today, just waiting on the sauce.
I must forewarn though, we haven’t sorted out this emotional roller coaster, so I really have to tell people to wait to start this till we sort that out. While we are having improvements, we are still trying to figure out the back and forth moods, if you are brave, then go for it.
Moonman and I are both trying to find the balance of AI with suspension, we have to see, remember this is experimenting and the end result of what the perfect protocol will be is still unknown. For those who want to follow us, that is fine, just be forewarned that there is a lot we haven’t figured out, it makes me feel great and lots of improvements but also lots of ups and downs.
I just lowered my dose to 10mg, so going to see how that plays out, and with an AI. It is exciting when this kicks in and works so well, and I do get excited and post, but I have to temper my posts till we find stability, and we will, just a matter of time. The fact is one thing this has done is give me a lot of muscle mass increase and increase in erections and erection strength and mood (when it is up), but when it goes down I become a 12 year old emotional girl lol
Seems an AI controls that, so keep following, great news about moonman though, but that was last night and today was a wash, so he is struggling to find the right balance of AI with suspension (as am I).
I mean don’t get me wrong, this stuff is great, but I have to report everything (bad and good), I have to be ethical, we are still working out the kinks. My goal is to find the most stable and easiest long term protocol that is the most effective and we are very close.
PerfectGent, standby, hopefully by the time it gets there we will work out all the kinks, if anyone is interesting in joining this project let me know. I would like someone to try enanthate with letrozole 2.5mg daily, I had 3 spontaneous recoveries on enanthate and then crashed, back then I knew nothing about this estrogen problem. Had I known then, what I know now, I might have been able to get it to consistently work. I believe the spontaneous normal responses to enanthate had to do with me taking a lot of arimidex the previous weeks and HGH.
I would be curious what enanthate would do with letrozole 2.5mg a day, see, there are many people on this forum with different types of PFS. It would be nice if we could test out several protocols so that guys have more than one option, that is how HRT works, there are lots of protocols. We cannot have just 1 protocol for PFS, that being said, I have figure out how to get PFS guys to respond to testosterone.
Before you go on this journey keep in mind that once you start this, there is no going back, once you figure out that you can get your libido back, your muscles, your mood, your dick, you will not stop. If you don’t know how to figure things out it might be frustrating, so some of you should wait till we settle on what works best.
One thing is for sure, nothing has given me such strong erections, such strong libido and hard muscles and big muscles (except masteron). I had this with prop, but not like now, it would be nice if I had some help here, if some doctors knew all this and were working with these options. I mean, we have options here, hormones work on a guy with PFS, it just takes special protocols.
This is very exciting guys, I have made a lot of gains over the past week, gained about 6 pounds in muscle! I didn’t think I would be able to gain more muscle naturally till I recovered, but I now know it is just a matter of the right stimulation of the 5AR and DHT. It seems Suspension had effects that are almost like Masteron (synthetic DHT) at least in me, we shall see if this occurs in others. I do believe if they are working at this for a few months like me, they will start to respond. I would like to see if AWOR would be willing to try a DHT restart protocol, if anyone knows him, please ask him.
I do not believe in androgen insensitivity, from what I have seen and experienced, it just requires lowering estrogen enough and using the right type of testosterone to boost 5AR and DHT. Oh, one more thing to add, Suspension has made me SO STRONG, at the gym I am an animal, I lift max weights on all the machines and its like nothing to me. The last time this happened was on Masteron, so this is very positive, just have to figure out the mood thing.
So far with AI’s I have my mood pretty stable, but we will see how the rest of the night unfolds, look out for monomania’s post and thread he will be starting.
This is why I am not willing to guinea pig myself. The earlier claims were that this was ‘all figured out’ and these things would ‘definitely’ work but there are clear risks and can destabilize you. I know because I’ve tried out a few different treatments under the care of doctors to make sure I wasn’t venturing too far out and they can be painful.
I’m beginning to sense some fissures and soon there will not be a cure but a palliative with trade-offs and then maybe it won’t work so well and then maybe only for a few people. Keep continuing to collect data because this is helpful for everybody. Your most recent tone is finally just about right for somebody who is experimenting.
Frustrated, I took your advice and decided to be more detailed and less optimistic, I have had my DHT induced for 3 months now and so DHT can make you very arrogant and confident. One of the reason I did not post every detail was because there were so many people wishing me to fail, I felt that would not be helpful to have guys laughing at me and discouraging others from trying.
There is no way I would ever stop these protocols, I have PFS for the most part reversed, and it seems that as time goes by I make gains. Now we will see if this occurs with Moonman, will he actually start to recover rather than just respond? You are right Frustrated, there may be some that do not respond to this, but there are other protocols they may respond to. The Masteron protocol for example, it bypasses the 5AR altogether, no one has ever used masteron properly on this forum (I read all the posts).
So if anyone wants to try the Masteron protocol, let me know, it will result in a crazy sex drive and extreme penile sensitivity and huge muscle gains. You must be on testosterone at the same time (as well as an AI), so if anyone is interested in trying this to help some of the guys here who may be really bad off, please let me know.
Moonman has been shutdown for 10 years, I am surprised he is having responses so quickly, granted they aren’t extreme responses yet, but they followed the same timeline as mine. I am glad you are no longer against me Frustrated, if we all work together, we can resolve this. So far one thing seems consistent with everyone I have spoken to (except one who has only given this a few days), anti estrogens seem to help response to testosterone, this supports my theories.
I promise you, nobody is hoping you will fail. Speaking for myself and probably others, we want people who are intelligent and reasonable on here trying to figure out more about PFS and promote awareness of the issue.
For some reason, there seems to be a night and day difference in your behavior today versus last week. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were having some form of a manic episode but I don’t really know. Just last week you were putting up only partially coherent posts at all hours of the night and day with run on sentences. Your posts are better at this point and much less hyperbolic.
I may be wrong but I hope my observation is correct and you will contribute in a more helpful way.
Day 1: 20 mg suspension
Injected at noon. Nothing for two hours. Got pretty down. Suddenly that melted away and I got into a really good mood. This went back and forth a few times. I am normally super steady emotionally, very stoic, so I am assuming it was hormonal fluctuations. Was not noticing a whole lot else so I took .25mg adex twice between 3pm and 6pm. Still was not noticing much. Went to play bball and noticed I was super down, estrogen symptoms hit hard and fast. Took 45mg Viagra before I took off from basketball and 20 mins later .5mg of adex. Bad mood melted away again…one hour later I was home and got my gf off 3 times. I did use Viagra, but I have used it hundreds of times before and I do not think I have ever been as hard or stayed hard as long as I did last night. I lasted forever and even afterwards when I was in the shower I was still hard, it was a different hard then normal…hard to explain.
Went to bed at 11pm. Zero erections from 11-3am. Woke up at 3am and noticed estrogen sides. So I took .5mg adex. From 3am until I woke at 6:30am I was rock hard the whole time. Over the past year I have had a lot of nocturnal and morning erections, but these just felt different, way more full and hard and lasting longer. Remember, I did take Viagra, but it was way more potent than it is normally for me. I also took .5mg adex an hour before sex. It may have just been I found a good sweet spot with adex 1 hr prior and it made the Viagra more potent…or it could have been that + suspension. Only time will tell.
BTW, hunger was a side effect that was undeniable. I had a deep hunger all day, and even as I was putting my dish in the sink after a huge dinner, I still had that deep hunger. JQD mentioned he had it too.
Its going to be tricky finding the right adex dose with suspension. I am teetertottering my estrogen levels back and forth…high and low. Need to find a way to make them more stable.
Today was Day 2 but I completely fucked up my injection and spent all day with low estrogen symptoms, not fun at all. Honestly I was hoping for more on day 1… a total reversal, but we should be patient and give it time. After 10 years, its hard to optimistic about any treatments really.
I did take adex standalone for 5 days prior to Day 1 suspension. I was taking .25mg every 2 hours. While doing this I lost tons of water weight, my stomach toned way down and my gf kept asking if I had been working my arms out (I hadnt). All of this in 5 days. I took a blood test the day before Day 1 suspension to get a baseline (no adex 12 hours before test)…
Serum Testosterone 750 (200-1,000)
Estrogen 17 (10-52)
Despite these great lab values, I did not feel like I had high T and lowish E. Even at a 17 I could feel the estrogen in my nipples. Legendary had to get his E levels to undetectable.
One thing I did notice from the 5 day Adex standalone experiment also also that viagra worked better. However, it did not work as good as it did on Day 1 suspension. Also worth noting that adex/lower estrogen make it super hard to cum. I can go for an hour and struggle to cum. Before adex I would sometimes have trouble lasting more than 5 mins.
So I’m one of the guys who’s been working with JQD offline and trying his protocol. Unfortunately, I can’t say that I’ve had any luck with it so far.
I will detail below what I’ve done, but for background’s sake: I’ve been dealing with PFS for 2.5 years and have been unresponsive to virtually everything I’ve tried – except an initial injection of Testosterone Cypionate back in November of 2012. With that injection, I experienced a full, dramatic and amazing recovery of my sexual function. But it would flicker on and off and faded out after two weeks; then every subsequent injection (for nine months) did nothing. There’s obviously a lot more to my story than this, but I think it’s important to point out that there was one time in this hell that I actually did respond to hormones.
OK, now here’s what I’ve done with JQD:
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First, I began taking AI’s pretty heavily. When we began communicating, he was advocating the use of Propionate, and it took a long time for me to get a hold of it. So while I was pursuing that, I began taking around 4mg/day of Arimidex – trying to space the doses throughout the day. Did I feel anything? Nothing dramatic, although I do think my face wasn’t flushing (randomly turning red and getting all hot and feverish) as much. Maybe my mood was a little better overall, but I think the optimism of thinking that maybe – maybe – JQD was on to something explains that more. After all, my mood has improved in the past when I’ve read hopeful stories on this board. Anyway, I was on just AI’s for about a month before the Propionate finally got here a week ago.
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Propionate. So I took the first injection last Saturday – 0.15 mg. And I continued taking Arimidex at least 4 mg/day, sometimes even more. I took the injections daily for 5 days. In that time, I felt nothing at all sexually. Dick remained as lifeless, shrunken and flaccid as ever. I did sweat a little bit more – although this also would happen when I was on Cypionate, even when it stopped working for me sexually.
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Suspension. As you know, JQD tried Suspension this week and got … very excited. At that point, he urged me in very strong terms to begin using it immediately and, in fact, shipped a vial of it to me. That was nice of him to do. It arrived yesterday (Thursday) and I snuck home from work to take my first injection at around 4:30pm. I felt … basically nothing. No sexual effect whatsoever. No change in mood. No stop to my twitching or change in skin oiliness or anything like that. I also continued using Arimidex heavily. If I’ve noticed any change in the last day it’s that the facial flushing issue seems to be back somewhat. I’ve been taking Arimidex when I feel it flaring up, figuring it’s estrogen that I need to counter, but it doesn’t seem to do anything. I took 6mg of Arimidex today (which, believe me, I know is incredibly high). Tonight, I tried to masturbate, just to see if maybe I’d be more interested or if my dick would work better. But if anything, it was worse than usual. I can usually get my dick hard with some effort, but tonight it seemed more unwilling than usual to stay hard – it couldn’t wait to shrink up. And I had no lust, no desire, no interest in the porn I was looking at.
I remember what it was like when that T shot worked 2 years ago for me. And I remember what it was like before PFS – when my brain and dick were connected, when even the hint of sexual or romantic thought would trigger a physical response downstairs. There is not as yet the slightest indication that Propionate or Suspension is helping to restore that at all – or, really, having any other meaningful effect on me.
All of that said, one of the reasons I was willing to try this is that I concluded it probably wouldn’t put me in any worse shape than I’m already in. I’m a little worried about the heavy AI use, but I previously used Testosterone for nine months and I did consult with Dr. Jacobs before switching to Propionate. So I’m going to keep doing it, at least for a little while, and see if anything changes. But as of now, if you asked me what the difference is between my previous use of Cypionate and my current use of Propionate and Suspension, I’d have to tell you that there’s none. Well, actually, I did feel something real on Cypionate once. So far, I can’t say that about this protocol.
I’d love nothing more for this to work, but that’s where I am right now.
I switched from a stable prorocol that had my dht up and my mood real good to a protocol that has a lot of physical benefits but is affecting my mood. So that is why there is a change in tone, also I run a business that is international and I am up late as I deal with other counties. I have changed to susoension from propionate which I had been on for about 2 months and been stable and great, so I'm documenting my experiences to help others.
while I'm excited about this, there are kinks to work out and I am not working alone anymore, so I have to speak for others instead of just myself. One of the guys I have been helping (recentquitter) has informed me he will be posting, he started prop for about 4 or 5 days and switched to suspension a day ago or so. I'm not sure he will keep up too much longer.
There was a breakdown in communication and I told him it would take 30 days to restart his 5ar and dht with propionate. I got over excited about suspension and told him it would work immediately, but it did not. On balance I should have told him it would probably take the same amount of time as prop as I didn't know. It took me 2 months to get where I am, this protocol will not work if only used for 1 to 2 weeks, even though I might have thought suspension would work that quickly, it may not.
I do hope he gives it at least a couple months as it takes 3 months to restart the HPTA axis, but I get the feeling he is going to not give it much more time. Restarts take time, months as a general rule, but I had hoped suspension would speed that process up. Moonman seems to have already had some improvements, he will be posting soon.
For anyone who is folllowing me, it took 2 months to restart my system, and it wasn't fun, I kept bringing up masteron a lot as I wanted to go back on. Now with suspension after being on prop for s couple months I am doing really well. I hope recentquitter stays the course, moonman will be giving it a few months.
There is a third guy but I have asked him not to start yet as he is on testosterone cream and I want him to get familiar with that and controlling estrogen first. We can hope something works quickly, but all restarts should be given at least 3 months to properly gauge them.
So in short, I ruined the experiment with Recentquitter by making him think it would work faster than it did. That is one reason I'm changing my tone, it took a lot of hard work and time to get where I am. If I am going to be negatively impacting an experiment with too quick of expectations I have to be careful, we shall see if he continues considering moonman's response perhaps he will.Recent, I would give it 3 months, if it doesn’t work then move into masteron, that was my plan, but I have been improving within the time frame I gave myself. So there is no need to move into masteron for me, but I think if you give it 3 months you will get to where I am.
When the time comes I’ll give you the proper masteron protocol, all dr goldstein does anyway is tel you to order andractim gel off the internet (which is illegal). If you are gonna order illegal dht, might as well as do it right and the best lol. I think you will do fine though if you ride this out like I did, this wasnt a cake walk. Many times I was tempted to inject masteron in the first month, almost did twice.
What were Jacobs’ specific comments on propionate if he had anything interesting to offer?
JQD - you may say your new regimen is affecting your mood whereas you were stable before, but you seem 100x more sane today. For the longest period of time I have been trying to tell you that not everybody would respond to the same treatments based on literally years of experience reading case studies on this forum. You have to see why you were getting so much of a negative response when you were basically offering guarantees that these drugs would help people and you literally called yourself the King of PropeciaHelp. This type of behavior is extremely damaging to the community here and even though I was and remain very skeptical of your approach, I even feel a little let down by this review.
It is too early to tell whether Moonman is benefiting, especially because he took Viagra which confounds results. It would be nice if RecentQuitter decides to give it a proper try so we have a high quality data point but I think it should be completely up to him if he makes that choice.
At this point, my plan is to keep going. As I said, I don’t think it will make me worse, at least the T injections. I’m going to do some more research on AI dosing.
In terms of Jacobs, he told me that he hadn’t heard of Propionate before but that he researched it after JQD mentioned it and that he concluded it would be safe to use and that he would be fine with writing a script if I wanted. He had no opinion (or at least didn’t offer one) on JQD’s overall theory but said that he was curious to hear how I’d respond to Propionate.
For the record, moonman always takes viagra, he has been doing so since he had pfs about 10 years ago from what he told me. My mood is changed as I quit a stable protocol which was inducing stable dht and now I'm on something that is changing my moods but giving me great benefits. I'm sorry I didn't communicate more clearly, but I started out just with myself. I felt this place was so gloomy, optimism I felt would be helpful. So the changes in moonman are changes based on his normal routine, moonman's baseline is on viagra, so viagra is not in the equation as he has been taking it for years. This response he had was different than he ever had while on viagra, this is day 2. Imagine a few months if my theories are true and the system can recover. I hope recentquitter rides it through like I did, it's worth it.