Last resort prostate cancer treatment is estrogen therapy. My stepfather was on it. High estrogen crushes Testosterone and DHT via the hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular-axis. DHT is the bodys natural anti-estrogen.
Take out DHT = high estrogen = suppressed Testosterone and DHT = sexual side effects, low mood, low energy etc.
That’s what we’re doing here. That’s how this all works…
Hi BrongFogBoy,
are you attributing those nice emotional feelings with your girlfriend to the progesterone use? also do u use the cream or tablets/capsules?
ive been using dhea and it maybe, MAYBE help with my sleep I dunno
I don’t have enough information to know for sure what to attribute this to. It may be a combination of everything. But I do believe you need some sort of estrogen supressor like arimidex or progesterone.
Dude you changed your tune after you read my thread, but you first came here attacking me and saying that Dr Jacobs “was grasping at straws,” did you know he is one of the world’s foremost experts in neuroendocrinology? neuroendocrinology.org/Alan-Jacobs-MD.html
My point is, why can’t this place be more positive? I think the tune is changing here since this thread got active, because now there is something that has not been here for a long time, hope. You have been hammering me for people to come forward when there are plenty of people who have posted here that they are waiting to start this.
You should be careful how you post, people don’t want to post here because of how guys like you treat others here. Guys like you come on here attacking me, the only person right now working on a plausible treatment for PFS. Who else is working on one? I have reversed PFS with hormones, no one has been able to do that before.
Just about everyone here has tried CDnuts protocol without success or minimal success, and yet he is touted as the messiah here! This isn’t just one protocol, if there are non responders (which is a theory I am not sure I agree with), I have a protocol to reverse them too! One that bypasses the 5AR system altogether and works.
Tumbleweeds, that is a very good way of explaining this simply, Brevity is not my strong point as you guys should know by now lol. I believe by doing this we can induce recovery, basically recreating the reverse situation finasteride created. We know people recover from this, we know our system responded to finasteride, it is logical to conclude that this protocol would speed up recovery and induce it.
gham, very good post, this has been my concern for some time, this is why I rail at the anti-hormone UK guys, they are so anti-hormone, and yet estrogen is the most dangerous hormone there is. If we don't get estrogen under control and fix this situation, who knows what consequences we face in the future. So doing nothing is dangerous, I believe these protocols are healthy for us, how could forcing our system into functioning normal, be bad for us?
When you break a leg you put a cast on it to help it heal, when you get a cut you use a bandaid to help the body heal. When you get a bacterial infection you use antibiotics to help the body heal. It is a common theme that the body heals, and that we can make that healing process more efficient and perhaps speed it up. I don't see how this is an exception, it is just more complex, and THANKS GOD I know what I know, or we would all be screwed.
You know what is sad? All it would take is an extended release 24 hour Arimidex pill and that's it for PFS, we would take 1 pill a day and be able to take any ester of testosterone, just respond normally as our system could till it recovered. I know this due to my experience with Arimidex, for some reason with PFS on testosterone our system rebounds very fast from arimidex. It depends on our 5AR and DHT production, as we recover more and more, we would be able to get by with less arimidex.
This pill will never get created, I have an uphill battle, that is why I have come up with these complex protocols, to work around the lack of the drug that could easily fix this. If Estrogen is continuously blocked, we start responding to testosterone injections normally, I have experimented for months with every type of AI.
So I am getting people to learn what estrogen feels like and how to counter it, people are learning quickly what I am talking about.
I am preparing by lowering estrogen and increasing DHT, the newer theories are that estrogen causes prostate cancer, that DHT actually lowers the risk. After learning all I have throughout my studies, I now know that is true, DHT is an irreversible suicide inhibitor of estrogen, it kills estrogen. I am not getting anything, and neither are any of you! Ironically guys who go on this protocol will probably be at a lower risk than even a normal guy at getting cancer, why? Guys don't pay attention to lowering their estrogen levels. We are all learning what Estrogen is, and how to counter it, and the effects of countering it. As our system recovers, all of you guys will come out of this with pretty advanced knowledge in hormones.
Many of you have been reading my research and are able to formulate arguments and use my theories to explain things others say. You have to admit that that is significant, there never has been a theory which one here learns and can use that knowledge to explain just about anything that happens. We will all come out of this with optimal hormone levels, and that is very healthy. The view that hormones are dangerous is outdated and wrong, hormones keep us youthful and healthy. When guys get older and their hormones get out of whack, that is when everything goes to shit.
You guys will come out of this not only knowing about hormones and having your levels optical, but you will have extensive knowledge in estrogen, something most guys know nothing about. As the future approaches, knowing what estrogen is and how to combat it will be life saving. Evidence is mounting that all cancers are caused by estrogens, more estrogens in our environment, in plastics etc... This protocol is essentially an optimal hormone protocol, and an anti cancer protocol, one of the drugs in my protocol is a supplement called Calcium D Glucarate. Calcium D Glucarate is not only stunningly effective at lowering estrogen, but it prevents cancer in so many ways.
Maybe this is all for a reason, maybe out of this research and our experiences will come better treatments for cancer. I mean, I think I know why cancer can be so difficult to treat in women now. Doctors think AI's lower estrogen enough, while it shows that way on blood tests, it is rebounding with us, we can feel it. Perhaps that happens in women, but since it doesn't show on blood tests and they can't feel the fluctuations in estrogen like we can, no one knows.
Perhaps depression, anxiety and psychiatric disorders are caused by neuroestrogen or neurosteroidal estrogens, drug addiction, perhaps it is all high estrogen in the brain. Already I read they are looking into a bi polar treatment by lowering estrogen, I forget the details. Dr Jacobs uses arimidex for anxiety and irritability in brain injured patients. I have one friend who suffered from anxiety, depression, and obsessive thoughts. He was on Finasteride for 4 years, no sexual problems, no reason to ever link this to finasteride, he didn't believe me. I convinced him to take 0.25mg of arimidex when he had his normal panic attacks, guess what? Reversed all his problems, off all his medications, he is doing great.
Maybe some good will come out of this hell, rest assured though, I figured this out and how to reverse it, I just need all your help, we all need to get on this and reverse it so that research can be focused on this. Perhaps they will make a better anti estrogen drug for us.
I recommend Arimidex, even though I am messing with Letrozole, it definitely lowers libido, I am trying to see what combo of doses might work with it, but arimidex requires more dosing, but will give you more positive results with less side effects
BrongFogBoy, that is excellent news! Drop the Progesterone, it is going to make you tired and depressed, you don't need it. Get Calcium D Glucarate and take 1500mg 3-4x a day, it will work much better with no side effects. Also, do not take arimidex with DHEA, take DHEA and then take Arimidex WHEN YOU FEEL the Estrogen, that is the key. If you do this you will balance your hormones.
I cycle on and off DHEA as estrogen builds up too much, seems like when I go on and off I make some new gains. DHEA up regulates 5AR, that starts reducing test to DHEA. DHEA will definitely improve mood and libido and just about everything. The only problem is the estrogen, and DHEA works much better while on testosterone (unless you have good natural levels).
Try taking DHEA with Calcium D G, let us know, but also keep up the arimidex. If you are going off natural test and not injected test, then take 0.25mg of arimidex as needed (as you feel estrogen symptoms), wait an hour and see how you feel, take more if you feel you need more, then wait an hour etc... That is how this works, and it works! If Estrogen piles up too much then take a break from DHEA.
Testosterone Suspension will be here today, TRIALS will begin, I am so excited, the next generation treatment for PFS will be coming soon. This could be revolutionary! It may require very little AI, according to body builder science, Testosterone Suspension is the most potent steroid in the world! It is just testosterone, that is what makes that sound crazy, but it is the quick release, it all converts to DHT.
This form of testosterone may bring guys into normalcy (and beyond) quickly and effectively and may induce a faster recovery! Stand by for posts after I experiment it!
why drop the progesterone, if he says it does something positive. This is not an attack, because im very happy with what is going on here. but i get the feeling that this theory maybe is the basis of a bigger problem. and the study also states that finasteride not only blocks testosterone metabolism but also that of progesterone. In your theory we have to stress testosterone metabolism, i get that. so why not progesterone metabolism, maybe if you stimulate both while keeping estrogen low. Praying to heal stimulated both while keeping estrogen low and recovered. Better to try different routes based on your theory, than to go tunnel vision
Due to the capability of finasteride to block the metabolism of progesterone (PROG) and/or testosterone (T) we have evaluated, by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry, the levels of several neuroactive steroids in paired plasma and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) samples obtained from post-finasteride patients and in healthy controls.
Assessment of neuroactive steroid levels in CSF showed a decrease of PROG and its metabolites, dihydroprogesterone (DHP) and tetrahydroprogesterone (THP), associated with an increase of its precursor pregnenolone (PREG).
I understand that, but if only one guy has a slightly different approach that works for him. why not continue he might find an even better way to combat symptoms
Well I would take one step at a time. First test out JQDs protocol. If you do it your way, you can never know if the protocols would have worked in isolation or if the combination works what part of the combination did the trick.
You gain more knowledge I would say if you test separately.
Well, what you guys didn’t understand is that study was on neurosteroids which do not reflect actual steroids in your blood, they are different levels in your brain than blood (which is consistent with my theories). Praying To Heal was seeing a doctor who put him on a descent protocol, but the progesterone was just being used as an AI.
I believe by fixing the source, all the other neurosteroids will also correct themselves, if you start tinkering with every little hormone, you can put everything out of whack. Most importantly, I have been able to reverse this, I tried Progesterone and had bad experiences with it, I just don’t see any benefit to it, I gave it a shot and it is no good. Any cream you have to put on is no good anyway, there is no way to accurately judge levels.
There are an array of side effects than can occur from progesterone as well, best to stick to fixing the root, it seems to be working the best. Praying To Heal was annoying and rather dumb, eventually he got banned, so while his protocol was interesting, after later research there were aspects to it that were no good. Chrysin for example I found out also blocks DHT, he was on that.
I think you guys are both right and it makes sense to do either one. I’ve stuck with the progesterone protocol for seven months now so I’m not willing to abandon it. Also, it doesn’t make me feel depressed and low energy, the opposite really but JQD is partially correct. It used to make me feel pretty awful until I started getting my test levels up with test boosters (as the protocol originally states) like Tongkat Ali and Tribulus and increasing the dose from 5mg to 10 mg.
I’m testing the concept of taking testosterone boosters while controlling estrogen with inhibitors / suppressors which can be done in several different ways (I had been using Test boosters with 50 mg zinc on an empty stomach originally). Specifically I’m interested in the DHEA that JQD suggested since it raises DHT levels. I had previously tried this with Creatine Monohydrate as I read a study saying it increased DHT as well but it didn’t have the effect that DHEA is already having on me. If the progesterone doesn’t work out for me I’ll move to the Arimidex and will try stopping the progesterone. Either way I’ll keep updates coming, good or bad.
I would say its always better to test out protocols separately. If you dont do it that way you will never know what caused what.
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Progesterone has been tested here extensively, I suppose it doesn’t hurt for someone to try it with this protocol as an AI, I tried it and it made me so tired I literally couldn’t wake up, but maybe because I was on other AI’s, who knows. I just don’t plan to try Progesterone again after that.
BrondFogBoy, it could have been because I was on Letrozole, I really have conflicting feelings about Letro, it seems too strong for this protocol, I would be curious if it would allow us to handle a long acting ester such as enanthate. If someone were to take metro 2.5mg 1 to 2X a day and inject test enanthate 100- 150mg a week, I wonder if that would balance out, something I have been curious about but never got to try.
Everything should be tried, this is the spirit, this is what I wanted, help, if we combine our resources and people help me test out protocols, we can find better protocols. I can’t test out enanthate right now as I fear I will lose all my gains and spiral out of control with estrogen, but I am curious now after my experiences with Letro being too strong.
If anyone wants to try the nuclear option designed for theoretical non responders (if such exists), let me know and I will share my protocol for that too.
Rather than this forum be a useless place where people attack each other and tell people how this is incurable and hormones don’t work and are dangerous (which are all lies by the way based on misinformation); we should work on treatments and cures. Some should try arimidex alone, we know several have started arimidex and clomid and arimidex and test boosters, I have advanced our understanding of PFS quite a bit, no longer do we have to sit back suffering from this mysterious condition.
No longer do we have to worry about trying hormones and “crashing,” the crash has been found out and we have a defense against it, it is time to solve this thing once and for all. There is no excuse for anyone here to be suffering with this anymore.
