I doubly ask what ITHINKFINGOTME TOO asked.
its an important questions for sure
also JQD, u say that perhaps all some guys need, maybe even me, all they need is an AI.
ok. that makes sense in theory.
but isnāt the main thing increasing 5AR production?
Armidex lowers E and increases Tā¦BUT, does that necessarily mean that 5ar will increase as well with ONLY armidex?
Arimidex was tested up to 10mg a day safely and even up 30mg and 60mg doses in one day we're safe, but I'm sure there were sides! I read and also experienced personally that the side effects of arimidex were dose dependent based on the ratio of your estrogen. So if your estrogen is high and you take a dose that someone with lower estrogen took, the lower estrogen person would have the sides and you wouldn't.
Arimidex does block an enzyme that causes estrogen release, however, they give it to sick and fragile women with breast cancer. You can always just suffer with the symptoms of estrogen instead and love with PFS, but there is no guarantee that is safe in the long term either. There are some people who trying a treatment isnāt right for, certainly if you are afraid to try a potential treatment or cure you shouldnāt.
We all have choices, some choose to live with pfs naturally, I chose to reverse it, I have not read of anything harmful or disastrous coming from arimidex.
I have experimented with all of the AIās and until I came out with my theory no one really correlated estrogen to pfs. It was I who figured out the crashes were estrogen dominance and that an AI could stop and reverse them. So while people have used AIās in the past, no one has really connected it like I have. I donāt recommend you use 6 oxo as its not a medical grade drug. Anytime you use a supplement you take an unknown risk.
Itās the same principal, if your test is high enough it is definitely worth a try before going into the whole protocol. I have a friend who had emotional problems from finasteride, didnāt believe me, he had no other issues. I convinced him to take arimidex and it changed his life, now he is off all his meds. He never had sexual sides, so never linked it.
All guys on hrt all over the world take arimidex, it's even prescribed for some guys to treat low testosterone, it's given to fragile women with cancer. I have taken arimidex long before I had pfs to deal with estrogen sides from testosterone, I'm perfectly comfortable with it.
I did ask de Jaxobs about the safety of arimidex and he told me itās very safe and that he published a paper on it in the 90s.
And I think everyone with pfs should first try low doses of arimidex before anything else, see if it helps, might be all some of you need.
youtube.com/watch?v=EoZZLW-c7vc PFS in explained in a few minutesā¦fuck he describes it so well around the 10 minutes mark till 13.
Say what?? This guy had shit t levels and jacked up his t with serm which raises his e. He does not have pfs not even close. He just has typical low t then high e symptoms. You clearly didnāt read my post. I have high t and normal e and still have pfs. My endo said I.have excellent androgen estrogen ratio. Pfs is not about blood levels. I have 800 + t levels ans normal e. Still pfs. I have taken no drugs.
What are your blood levels say? I read your postsā¦I thought bee stings cured you?
Are you out of your mind? I am not saying he has pfs , Im saying that the way he explains it, the lack of libido is pretty much what most of us are feeling, we know we would like to have sex but we cant, the penis doesnt respond to the rest of the body. Period. And since youāre so smart you shouldāve read a few posts ups that I am not 100% cured but I am pretty close, Justquitās protocol might just do the trick. But the stings helped me a lot, however juicing has been doing miracles for me. I am not afraid of trying new things, and no longer feel like my miserable old self, so thats enough to make me very happy, well at least happier than you thats for sure.
Will try propionate first, and suspension after.
Not concerned with the pain of pinning suspension everyday? And the infection risks associated with water-based steroids? Especially black market?
Finbasteride, what is your bio available test? Guys with pfs can have good total test but then low bio available. I definitely recommend you give the arimidex a try, canāt hurt, also, none of the guys (myself included) that have benefited from an AI had any significant estrogen show on a blood test.
Finbasteride, a friend of mine who had lots of emotional issues (he did not know were from finasteride), recovered completely from all these emotional
Disorders with arimidex.
Can you tell us your symptoms again? Start with a low dose 0.25 and try taking it when you feel the worst, probably at night right? This was the case with my friend, he asked why and I told him because testosterone is highest during the day and the cycle ends at night and this estrogen peaks when you have this condition. You may actually be lucky and not be as bad off as you think, I very much hope you improve with arimidex, let us know.
The black market isn't really the black market, they are actually commercial brands in other countries that these steroid sites sell. Anyway, I am getting a legitimate script from dr Jacobs. There is no more risk with suspension than any other injection. I have been injection for 5 years, never had any problems, never heard of anyone having any probs. So long as you use sterile stuff and a new syringe every time, you won't have any problems.
HRT is a huge industry and guys inject themselves regularly, it's not an issue. I'm just saying that you will have more success with suspension than propionate, but prop will work. I'm on prop now, waiting on my suspension, but I haven't needed more than 0.5mg of arimidex in 2 days.
I have been taking this natural supplement that has been proven to get rid of estrogen, it is called Calcium d glucarate, read about it. I have been taking 1500mg 3x a day, I just started and am amazed so far. Too soon to tell if itās the supplement or im just recovering more, but they are even studying it for Cancer treatments. It is also incredibly healthy and anti cancerous.
Calcium D Glucarate works!!! 1500mg 3 to 4x a day, it got my estrogen under control, no need for an AI, no side effects!!! Requires high doses, but fucking works, and itās healthy!! I canāt believe it, longest I have gone without an AI!
However, it will take time for me to confirm this, and im sure Iāll need arimidex, but maybe in much lower doses due to these supplements. Maybe I wont even need an AI, we shall see.
I have actually seen this link before and it doesnāt really provide a explanation. The website isteroids.com isnāt exactly the pinnacle of scientific research but Iāll disregard that for now. However, isteroids.com is the only website that endorses this view while many other body building websites say ester length doesnāt matter.
Go to the testosterone section. It says:
āI know it goes against everything that is typically said about esters, but think about itā¦donāt we use different testosterone esters (in the real world) for different thingsā¦.long esters for bulking and short esters for cutting? Iām presenting new informationā.
A lot of his arguments come from his own āreal worldā experiences of body builders he knows and that doesnāt help at all.
In the DHT section he goes onto say:
āDoes ester length also influence 5a-Reduction? I suspect it may. But in this case, I would imagine that the long esters convert less readily to DHT (though I guess I could be wrong). Iām speculating that short esters convert to more (not-really-very-anabolic) DHT, and that would also give us a clue as to why stuff like testosterone propionate is better at getting us a nice hard physique than testosterone enanthate. It fitsā¦I just canāt be 100% sure on it. But I hope you joined me in that logical leapā¦because it sure gives us a safe landing on the other side, doesnāt it? I think this modulation and difference depending on ester in DHT levels is much more modest than those we see with estrogen levels (depending on ester).ā
He admits he is speculating that short esters convert to more DHT and that he is making a ālogical leapā in trying to conclude this.
But lastly and most importantly, it doesnāt make logical sense. Letās say you inject 100 units of pure T in suspension form versus 100 units of pure T (excluding ester) in cypionate form. In the suspension, 100 units will be released immediately while you would hypothetically release 10 units/day over 10 days in cypionate.
Why would having 100 units versus 10 units of T make any difference in how much/fast it converts to E or DHT? Unless the rate at which the conversion occurs is dependent on the length of total amount present, you will end up with the same proportion at the end of the day. If it converts into DHT faster than E, you will see your basis be depleted just as quickly for 100 units as you will for 10.
Well, I'm not sure what I'm debating here as this isn't really a debatable topic, testosterone cypionate is more androgenic than testosterone enanthate, and testosterone propionate is more androgenic than both of them. Testosterone suspension is the most androgenic (meaning it converts to dht at the highest rate). I have been using testosterone for years, before pfs I could never use propionate as it would have made me break out very bad due to the high rate of conversion to dht.
Dr Jacobs immediately knew why propionate would be less estrogenic and more androgenic he said it was in his "hormone bible," when I inteoduced him to propionate. So I'm not sure what the point of debating this is to be honest. You can google testosterone suspension and read on zillions of body builder sites that it is the most potent steroid and msss building agent. If it were the same as cypionate, that would not be posted everywhere.
More importantly, I ak living off of propionate and am talking to 3 others who are, countless forums I have posted where guys respond to propionate and not to cypionate or enanthate. Suspension is a life changed for someone with pfs, so it propionate. As I said, I would like to have a peaceful relationship with you on here. I just see no reason to spend the time debating something that is rather common knowledge. I'm also basically pfs free thanks to these forms of testosterone, before propionate I had pfs and was non responsive to normal esters. So while I respect you wanting to debate it, for me it is a waste of time. I'll debate things that are not known or perhaps are new, but I explained it a few times.
Testosterone suspension quickly releases into the blood stream and this all converts to dht at a fast rate and starts dissipating from the blood stream in a few hours. Minute by minute it declines, so that lowers the estrogen problem as well.
Here is one quote of many from many sites
anabolic-bible.org/Profile.a ā¦ suspension
āAmong bodybuilders, āsuspensionā is known to be an extremely potent mass agent. Most often it is ranked as the most powerful injectable steroid available, producing an incredibly rapid gain of muscle mass and strength. This is largely due to the very fast action of this drug, as the water-based steroid will begin to enter the blood stream almost immediately after an injection is given. When using a slow acting oil based steroid like Sustanon, it can take weeks before a peak testosterone level is reached. With suspension it is just a matter of days. This will usually result in the athlete noticing a size and strength gain by the end of the first week. By the time the athlete is 30 days into a cycle of suspension, the length it will usually take for a Sustanon cycle to really begin to work consistently, the mass gains are already (generally) very extreme. Clearly the anabolic effect of this testosterone will be realized much more quickly than we would expect with an oil based (esterified) preparation.ā
If you don't agree for whatever reason, I suggest you read about it, I can post a zillion sites, but it's not a theory or a debate, it's a fact. That's why testosterone suspension is considered the most potent of all steroids. Suspension does aromatize like all test, but in small doses it does not longer on and aromatize like esters. I suggest you sit back and just wait as plenty of guys will be coming forward in the coming months and posting their esperiences. I just at this point am working with dr Jacobs who already accepts this as fact (as it is in his books) and people who want help.
I have explained it several times and several different ways, perhaps or is I who am lacking in my explanation. Either way, I have no interest in debating the topic anymore, as I have reversed pfs I will be spending less and less time here, debating things I already know I find to be exhausting. Ihatepropecia posted a couple pages ago on my thread that his personal experiences also reflected what I am saying.
Just sit back and wait for some guys to come forward, I'll explain myself once or twice, but I have no logical reason to continue debating this issue. Also, I was an executive of a medical company and knew and know many hrt doctors, in HRT enanthate is used due to its low side effect profile. Testosterone propionate is rarely used due to its high rate of conversion to dht and this side effects like hair loss and acne. So I'm not sure why we are debating this here, I have never met anyone in person in the hormone replacement therapy field who has said different. I finally contacted 1 friend of mine who is a hormone replacement doctor and he confirmed to me that he uses testosterone suspension on guys who have low dht levels and and with amazing success.This is definitely not a fact and this is why I think it is dangerous for guys to blindly follow your advice.
You wrote:
āYou can google testosterone suspension and read on zillions of body builder sites that it is the most potent steroid and msss building agent.ā
But on the same site you originally referenced it says the complete opposite:
āLonger esters are more anabolic than shorter onesā
āHave I mentioned that testosteroneās effect on Growth Hormone and IGF-I (two very anabolic hormones) are also dependant on aromatization to estrogen? Again, this is why we gain more muscle with the long estered tests.ā
There are plenty of other websites of similar quality (low quality) that dispute what you are saying so you canāt say its a āfactā.
If you donāt want to discuss further that is fine, but you are not offering an answer and whatever you have said is incomplete at best.
But rather than being incomplete, it actually does not make sense when you say:
āTestosterone suspension quickly releases into the blood stream and this all converts to dht at a fast rate and starts dissipating from the blood stream in a few hours. Minute by minute it declines, so that lowers the estrogen problem as well.ā
This is really the part that needs to be explained.
Testosterone with esters is like an extended release version of testosterone. If it converts quickly into DHT when released immediately, it will do the same thing when the whole dose is released as when the partial dose is released. Testosterone will dissolve into the bloodstream at the same rate for any formulation.
You have also told me none of your HRT contacts know about T suspension or propionate which I find unusual, but I asked a doctor who did and was told it didnāt make a difference.
I have said what I need to. If other guys on here still want to follow this advice they are welcome to but should be fully aware these ideas are speculative and not completely thought out.
frustrated,
but what I think JQD is trying to say is that the longer the extended release the more of a chance it will overload āourā 5ar system
and thus turn into estrogen. we need a quick in and out hit of just a little Test.
I said it in another post, we need just enough for it to stimulate or 5AR system WITHOUT overloading it.
Longer esters will overload is JQDs proposal.
donāt forget, u guys are reading bodybuilding forums or information that has nothing to do with steroids relating to PFS. are bodies are a little different. so certain mechanisms pertaining to HRT are obviously going to hit or bodies differently. JQD did say before PFS he used test prop and he broke out with acne. Total sign of dht spike, right?
we NEED these guys to step forward. but I suspect theyāve been feeling awful for so long that if they do in fact feel better now, they donāt want to jinx it or get ahead of themselves until after its been proven to them this works.
I look at this protocol like this. the anti propecia pill. does the exact opposite. what fin decreased, test prop will increase.
in theory makes a lot of sense. all we need are reviews or input for users.
Come forward guys. if the protocol wont work its not because u jinxed it. believe me. if itās supposed to work for us, it will
Thanks for bringing this up. The opposite is actually true. That is not how enzymes work. Here is an example.
Testosterone suspension:
Letās say T converts into DHT and E in 1:1 ratios for a healthy guy. This assumes they have enough aromatase and 5-AR to do so. According to JQD, PFSā patients have decreased amounts of 5-AR (letās say 10% of normal). So after one day, you get a full conversion of what you were expecting to estradiol but you donāt have enough 5-AR to convert the amount of T you normally do into DHT.
Testosterone decanoate:
Letās say the daily release is 1/10th per day over 10 days. Because you are dealing with 1/10th the dose, you have just enough 5-AR to convert what you wanted into DHT and an excess of aromatase so you will have a full normal conversion into E.
Injecting a lot of T would saturate 5-AR where you would be able to convert proportionally more if you titrate it over several days. He has simply refused to respond to this by saying Iām too stupid to understand or that it is a fact and not up for debate. He is unwilling to say I donāt know which is exactly what doctors do when they accuse us of having conditions other than PFS.
Not knowing doesnāt make you wrong, but you better be able to come up with an answer if you want to say youāve figured it all out.