this is what confuses me.
I def don’t want to drive e2 down too much. Dr Jacobs said if im having pretty consistent morning boners and I am, then I have the right ratio of T to E.
I guessing when I do the test prop I will only need a little armidex.
the last thing I want to do is play a guessing game with my hormones
but I guess I played Russian roulette with taking motherfucking propecia, btw suck a dick Merck.
sry.
God, I hope I feel beastly after my injections. JQD am I hyping this too much because it is still a very small dose of testosterone right?
I Know me, ill want to take more and more
Thank you for the reply 702, how is your libido doing man? Thats great to hear that you’re reading JQD’s thread as well, he’s given most of us a boost in the HOPE department. You could tell by your replies that you’re into collaboration not raging criticism. Have a good day man and thanks.
No, this is definitely not the case. I will not speak for Mew’s opinions on JQD’s theories, but I do not believe this is his general policy towards running the forum.
The scientific study actually doesn’t provide evidence that supports the case made by JQD. Estradiol levels were reported to be significantly highest in testosterone buciclate which has a half-life in between enanthanate and undecanoate. If JQD were right you would expect to see the ester with the longest half life would have the highest amount of estradiol levels (not buciclate).
There are some anecdotal reports but on the other hand there are just as many anecdotal reports that suggest the opposite. Really hard to read into this, especially when you aren’t experimenting on PFS patients.
Some articles suggest lower esters lead to lower aromatization and others say it is really all the same but offers a different mechanism of delivery and requires you to reload after different periods of time. People with professional biochemistry experience generally think it is baloney that shorter esters would be less likely to be converted to estradiol vs DHT. If we start seeing anecdotal reports from PFS patients reporting otherwise, maybe this is an exception. Despite what JQD says, we have yet to see anybody report this.
IHatePropecia recovered before ever taking testosterone propionate and he even admits he is not sure if he has PFS.
There is no one size fits all AI dose. Each person aromatizes T at different rates, in different circumstances. JQD needs an extradinarly high dose of AI. Many people may feel better on a much lower dose.
Just go by your feelings. If you’re getting night/morning wood, sex drive up, boners, mood is better, that’s your sweetspot with the AI + T dose…
Letro builds up over a month and becomes more effective, the idea is to try and take as much prop as possible with as low AI as possible, to find that balance. If you have access to testosterone suspension, you should use that, mine is on the way. It quickly converts to dht with a short half life of only 3 hours, try it alone with no other form of test and you may need less AI.
Yes Letro is strong, but as my 5ar recovers I need less Letro and respond more to propionate. You definitely still have pfs if you are on this protocol, if you were recovered you would be fine on 1 test enanthate shot a week (like I was pre pfs). I believe forcing your system into shape like this will induce recovery, if you read my thread I explain why many times.
I am on 20mg of propionate a day, if I was on only 10mg a day, I’m not sure if I would need as much Letro, I might try a much lower dose of it. Everyone’s level of 5ar suppression is different, we know that recovery occurs, so it’s just a matter of sticking to the protocol long enough for the system to heal.
Aromasin is counterproductice to recovery as it will suppress your 5ar by making your system think you are adding exogenous dht due to its molecular similarity to dht. I am all muscle and so it’s very clear when my estrogen is high, I go from being buff to skinny in a matter of minutes!!! My parents thought I was insane till they saw with their own eyes. That being said, since it’s a concrete thing, I use Letro and I have stability, as time goes by I get better and better.
I advise you to stop playing around with all these different hormones that are dht similar, you will just keep setting yourself back to zero. You want your body to detect high test, low estrogen and low 5ar and low dht so that it will compensate by increasing 5ar and dht.
It is occurring in me, the first month was a bit hellish, but by the second month im doing quite well, I also take 50mg of DHEA a day which upregulates 5ar, it seems to play a big role in recovery I feel. I advise you to try this protocol for at least 3 months, if you continuously improve then don’t touch anything resembling dht. Aromasin is a shitty AI, you can only take 1 a day or it becomes less effective and it shuts down dht and 5ar, it had me almost completely shut down. That’s why you were having estrogen sides on masteron, you shut down your dht. A normal guy it would not occur, what’s actually occurring is your 5ar is being shut down due to the estrogen dominance from your test all aromatizing without enough 5ar to reduce it to dht.
Be careful not to go down the same road as Eden, randomly injecting different things with no clear direction. You need to focus on recovering your 5ar, it’s cool you can get steroids anytime you want, we all can, but what happens when you can’t get masteron anymore? What happens when the law comes and shuts all that down? Doctors don’t prescribe masteron and its not even produced in medical form anymore. My protocol is designed for long term use and the future in mind. I want to get my system back to normal as quickly as possible.
Masteron is illegal, so are most of the other steroids you are messing with, what happens in 5 years or 10 years? What if they stop making it? I know being on dht type steroids stops recovery, reverses it. If you eliminate aromasin, and replace it with a low dose of Letro or more frequent arimidex doses then you will at least be able to recover. Trust me, I didn’t want to believe it about aromasin, so I took it against my better judgment, and im still recovering from that and masteron. Had you not been messing with dht type hormones you would need less AI and be responsive to more propionate.
How do I know? 30 days ago I could barely tolerate 10mg of prop and needed Letro 4x a day at 2.5mg, now I need 2.5mg a day and am on 20mg a day of propionate. Some here mentioned I need incredibly high AI, that’s not true, it’s consistent with pfs, when you are all muscle you can easily see how much AI you need with this condition.
Trust me, I have exhausted all avenues, I know what I’m talking about, masteron should only be used as a last resort to bypass 5ar if you can’t recover your 5ar. I see no evidence that 5ar and dht can’t be recovered, it can be, I’m doing it, people have. The most ideal method would be test suspension, if you can get anything you want, get that man, you won’t need much AI and will be able to take more. I’m waiting on mine to get here, I believe it will induce a faster recovery.
I’m glad to see you are improving with a similar protocol to mine, if we work together we can get everyone else here reversed and if everyone is on the same protocol we can find better ways and methods. So people stop talking about parasites and other bs lol
Is this thing still posting? I have it on block, I accidentally clicked on one of its messages. Let this be a lesson to you guys, don't go on Adderall or you will end up like this disaster, stay away from methamphetamines!
Would you be willing to conduct and experiment for us while you are still messing with Masteron? I have a nuclear option that I designed for theoretical non responders (if such exist), would you be willing to try it? It would completely reverse your condition which you claim to be cured from yet require a PFS protocol to respond to testosterone, that baffles me. I don't think you are recovered, I think you have simply reversed PFS like I have.
That aside, I cannot experiment with this protocol as it will shut me down and bring me back to square 1, since you already are playing with Masteron, I would like to give you a protocol to try. I already experimented with it and know how to make it work 150%, but as I said, I am recovering my system and it would be counter productive to my recovery. The experiment would take about 3 weeks and you would feel amazing, let me know and we will begin. Your work in this experiment could help countless guys on here, even though I believe all guys can recover, it would be nice to have this nuclear option for everyone. I never got a chance to perfect it as I moved onto recovery as soon as I figured all this out.
You tried Masteron, but did not do it correctly, that is why it faded, I can fill in those gaps, before you move onto my long term recovery protocol, why not try it? The purpose of the experiment is I have some questions as to how effective Masteron can be at controlling estrogen when done with low doses of propionate and low doses of masteron, but it requires a few weeks or more for your system to recognize the masteron as DHT and start using it.
I also want to find out how much and which forms of AI work best with this nuclear option. While the Masteron will suppress your DHT, my question is about the correct balance of masteron to testosterone propionate that would induce the highest positive effects and require the lowest AI, what do you say, would you like to be a hero? Again, I believe this option will not be required for anyone, but since I cannot test it, I cannot refine it, and I am a firm believer in options, and it would be nice for us to have this worked out and perhaps start an entirely new thread on this.
I assure you I can inform you properly on how to use Masteron with continued success.
Testosterone propianate (10 - 20 mg/day)
Letrazole 2.5 mg/day (more or less as needed)
Apparently you need to go on feeling wrt to the ai.
That’s the current recommended protocol although jqd has thrown in dhea a few days ago so it is still quite fluid. The bones of it are as above though.
LOL, the guy manically posting at 4 am is accusing ME of using meth. Don’t use these empty insults as a ploy to avoid the tough questions, dude. You have your work cut out for you.
I read the first 28 pages of this thread a while back and got me some anastrozole 1mg thru my doc which was in the protocol a while back, now the protocol has shifted to letrozole I see (both are AI, but why the change?). My doc told me to take half a pill a day max. Well. I’m taking half a pill (0.5mg) every 12 hours, coz i want to counter whenever I feel the estrogen coming, imo its usually in interwalls less than 12 hours. Dick size is almost doubled for me and sometimes I can even “feel my dick”. My hands and my feet are not as cold as they were before (they are still cold ) . I have morning wood quite regularly, hardness at around 70-80%. I also think I have a little more libido than what I had without it. I do not have random boners but I am sure if I needed to get erect, being on anastrozol would help. It is no miracle drug by itself alone, but I think it makes some of pfs’s syptoms easier. I am also probably taking too low a dose but I wanna start small, and my doc wont give a new prescription if I go thru it too fast, I think… I do around 5-10 minutes of strength training “to boost t” every day and eat healthy (mostly alkaline diet).
I agree with everything in here. Roughly 6 months ago I had the same ideas you are presenting here. I shared the ideas with some others that have PFS, though I did not share publically on the board. My idea was that 5ar was under performing or it was mutated, but could mutate back. The end result was basically we are not getting enough 5ar response, same as your conclusion.
When I’m not on cycle, my 5ar response is probably adequate for my normal t production, hence not real PFS symptoms other than brain fog.
When on cycle, since I raise t, my 5ar lags and hence I need more AI than most.
I believe, like you, that over time of putting pressure on 5ar to perform that it will. I have noticed this to a degree in my own cycles/cruises. I like you have a body that I can instantly see estro sides, and I notice with each cycle there are less estro sides, though they are still there unless I pound tons of AI.
This does lead me to conclude, like you, that it does seem reasonable that if one keeps test prop at 10-20mg daily, maybe higher as they recover, and use letro, that over time the body will be force to adjust, hence upregulate 5ar.
I had this same idea about 6 months ago, but have done two cycles since. I’m going to cruise for the next 16 weeks. I’m also going to use nothing but letro, and the first month will be at 2.5mg daily. I will also slowly adjust it down if it seems fitting. This should be an excellent test. I do hate using high letro because you feel like crap and you deflate and lose some gains. Oh well, if it means my next cycle could be normal.
Lol I know what you mean perfectgent! I also got a bit emotional reading JQD and ihatepros posts! It’s like we been sent these two for a reason! Hope they continue their amazing path! I hatepropecia I wish you can change your username to Iconquerpropecia or something!
I believe we have suppressed 5ar, yours just recovered quite a bit, enough to handle your own natural test, but as we can see, not enough to handle exogenous injections. After you use masteron, I’m curious, how long does it take for your dht and 5ar to recover? I am 1 month into recovery from masteron and aromasin, it is clear it suppressed recovery.
Though that is based on my observations, I never tried a low dose of masteron with the test propionate protocol. I’m too afraid to try it now as I don’t want to lose my gains and my 5ar is not as recovered as yours. How many years have you had pfs? What about testosterone suspension? That would require much less AI and induce much more dht/5ar.
My experiment would be a low dose of prop as now, and using masteron at low doses (not body builder doses), allow it to build up for 3 weeks, and see how effective of an AI it is. While it will suppress your own dht (clearly), I wonder if Letro can compensate, and if a low dose of masteron would balance itself out by blocking estrogen.
I only like you used masteron in BB doses with a high dose of long acting test enanthate, yet for the month I was on it my muscles were huge (like before) and libido and sexual function through the roof, stronger than pre pfs perhaps. I also have Primobolan here I never got to experiment with, but this masteron experiment is an attempt to find a nuclear option that works long term for anyone who actually is a non responder (if this theory is even true). Thus far I have seen no evidence of non responders, people like Dannyfc just used large doses of testosterone without enough AI and I have never been able to control estrogen from any other form of test.
Furthermore, I cannot control estrogen at doses above 20mg of propionate a day, and something tells me when Dannyfc used propionate, he didn’t use Letro 2.5mg as needed at 10-20mg a day of propionate lol.
So this research is to help people who feel they don’t respond, even though I don’t believe in that, as it is a matter of the rigt doses and time. If you were to use a low dose of masteron you might have different results, it also might counteract any sides from Letro. What type of AI are you on now and what doses? Before I had pfs I was on hormones, not being able to respond properly to test is not recovered to me, I’ll be recovered when I’m injecting the same dose of a long acting testosterone ester as before with reasonable amounts of an AI.
As I pointed out, your failures may be due to using aromasin which annihilates your dht, it did for me. I’m sure if I quit hormones naturally I would be good enough, I don’t know, never going to find out, don’t want to be off testosterone. Also, as Letrozole builds in your system it becomes more effective, perhaps if you have recovered more 5ar a lower dose would work. There is a website that sells it in liquid form that makes it easy to take smaller doses.
That new AI you mentioned is interesting, but I dare to say I might be afraid to damage estrogen receptors. I haven’t been able to get by with arimidex, the doses got way too frequent and high to maintain my status. You say Letro causes you to shrink? If that’s the case then the dose is too high for you, try half the dose you are taking. You have to keep pushing the 5ar enzymes to recovery, that’s my theory, seems to be consistent with recoveries.
Essentially after 4 years that’s what CDnuts did, stimulated 5ar a lot, though I feel his dht protocol was counter production as when I tried it it shut down my own dht which lead me on the dht replacement path which lead me back and apparently you too. I concluded my own dht was superior to exogenous and I noticed as my dht shut down, so did my 5ar, I knew this based on my sebum production declining.
