Here is a guy recovering with 10mg of propionate a day, yet another recovery story from test propionate
Aww thanks sg, I check in, I have a few friends who alert me of anything significant that occurs and I check in. I came as someone has reported reversal with my protocol, donāt worry, I am still here, I check my pm messages and donāt think you should suffer for the few bad apples. Dr Jacobs and I have been going back and forth in email quite a bit lately, interesting stuff. It is already occurring, the neysayers are being proven wrong, people are recovering.
There are no other reports of propionate use on this forum, many have searched and got back to me, only Eden who improved on 10mg of propionate a day but could not control the estrogen. Eden often changes directions from one direction to another with no real theme. Danny, it is not the propionate that works alone, it must be used in very low doses and estrogen must be lowered with arimidex in high doses or Letrozole. It takes a month, you declare yourself non responsive but have not even tried, and cypionate does not work on guys with pfs, it is way too estrogenic. Just so you know, I am in email communication with dr Jacobs and he is on board with my theories and research, someone just posted a reversal with propionate, he also tried everything.
Very good Brazilian dude, testosterone suspension would just work a lot better than test propionate, but propionate still will work. My suspension is on the way and im excited to give it a try, I believe it may speed up recovery as well. Propionate works though, Iām doing well on it after the first month (which was a little rough to get my dht up) now Iām doing great! The first month is a little hard as you are balancing things and building up dht
Well I cant speak for everyone on this forum, but I can give you two reasons why I personally believe shorter testosterone esters act less estrogenicly in practice.
- The few scientific studies performed on the subject point to that being the case.
here is one done on monkeys: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12954670
- anecdotal evidence in the bodybuilding community seems to support the claim. Propionate is known as the testosterone you take for cutting because you retain less water. Water retention is a symptom of estrogen dominance.
I guess a third reason would be all the cases we have been posting of people switching to a faster ester and getting a better result for TRT.
Surly that is enough to at least give it a fair shake no? God knows we have tried crazier things with far less to go on, have we not?
Here is an article that makes the case better then I can.
I must say, that is really strong evidence toward JQDās theory. Both of these guys have played with almost every hormone in the book and they just happened to come up with the exact same protocol? Both say they can stop and start PFS symptoms at will. If itās true, and they are two different people, this adds a lot of merit to this. Iām interested to see how guys starting this protocol with Dr. Jacobs are doing.
Frustrated
DonĀ“t you think
If he was not on the rigt track, MEW WILL INTERFERE?
It is the first Christmas for 4 years I have hope.
Thanks JQD
Just so everyoneās clear, IHP, the guy weāre referring to in the other thread was already recovered for 18 months BEFORE he started using HRT. His sexual function had already been completely restored, but some brain fog remained. He says he responded to all testosterone forms, but to suspension and propionate best, similar to a normal functioning person without PFS. Not trying to discredit anything, but I donāt think that was made clear.
Youāre absolutely right Entropy1, but he also says he can make PFS symptoms return and stop them with hormone modulation. He also still says that he still aromatizes testosterone substantially more than any other BB still, and has to take much higher amounts of AI in order to compensate. I know he was reversed, but it is still pretty interesting that two people independently came to the same conclusion and dosages. Not to mention that it coincides with what Legendaryās doctor theorized as well. I think a lot of our problem is an over conversion of estradiol to estrone in tissue. Like Legendaryās doctor hypothesized, estrone has a higher binding affinity to hyperthalamic tissue in the brain. So even moderate amounts of estrogen in our bodies gets converted quickly to estrone and absorbed in the tissue, signalling the brain that test is too high and not needed. Either lowering testosterone or signalling it to not be metabolized throughout the body. This would explain why estrogen has to virtually be crushed in us and why regular E2 testing wouldnāt tell us much about what is happening on an inter-cellular level. This could be due to not enough 5ar2 in the brain or throughout the body to compete with estrone, and thus it runs wild. Hopefully this protocol can help us rebuild 5ar2 and re-regulate ourselves instead of depending on AIs and test for life. Just a thought, not trying to upset anyone, feel free to tear it to shreds now.
I know of a permanent protocol that takes you out of this misery finbasteride 
No need to be a wanker lad, resorting to name calling is only counterproductive. I was merely suggesting you start your own thread, if JQDās posting exuberance is too much for you too handle. I personally welcome his tenacity, his positivity is off the charts to. Itās nice to see on forum with so many negative former Alpha-males.
Right on Lukas, thanks broth was a little late in defending myself, I was away from the internet. The name calling is really immature, thanks for contributing positivityā¦Hang in there Iām sure weāll get somewhere with this thread.
Hey guys, Iām glad to be here and this is exactly what I was looking for - like minded people with PFS that are cycling or using some form of TRT/HRT.
Iām going through the thread, though can someone give me the current cycle purposed to āre-regulateā the PFSer? Is it test prop 10mg daily while crushing estro with 2.5+mg daily of Letro?
Yep, Thatās pretty much it.
Thank Bro!
Yeah, I can say that cruising at 10mg test prop/ed isnāt bad, works well. I did run the high letro, crushed e to nothing, and felt horrible. I had all the classic low e sides, which low libido and no wood is a part of. We need some e to function, so Iām not sure how long one is to run with crushed e to āre-regulateā though I ran about a month in that state (it sucked nuts and do not recommend it), and didnāt notice a significant improvement in brain fog (my only PFS marker to track) when off cycle.
I have cruised at 10mg prop daily with aromasin 12.5 twice a week, and felt MUCH better than the above, and improved brain fog. I ran in this state for a long time as well (over 8 weeks), and have done it multiple times, though when coming off, brain fog returned to normal state, which leads me to believe it did not recover my last PFS symptoms, thus PFS still must exist somewhere.
Iām currently cruising at 20mg prop with Aromasin 12.5 twice a week, and fell awesome. Iām probably going to stay here for a while, roughly 8-12 weeks, then Iām going to blast another EQ cycle.
I just finished an EQ cycle, and EQ converts to estrogen at about half the rate as test, so less estro control is needed compared to test, but it also converts to DHT, so I used it to put āpressureā on 5AR to convert it, and I must admit, I felt great on it. I did lose a lot of hair, so I know there was a DHT/androgenic effect, and it also helped for the first time bump my DHT up into the high 60ās (68).
I may come off test prop cruise and PCT just to see if the EQ cycle helped me recover, not sure at this point.
702, so the Aromasin is working well for you on the protocol? Are you considering going back to Letro at all? Howās your libido? Is EQ-Equipoise bro? Thanks.
Hey, yes EQ is Equipoise (boldenone).
I use letro on cycle to control e. I no longer use it on the cruise because the low e sides. I use the Aromasin on the cruises and sometimes on cycles as well, depends on what is be ran. Itās sad as my other friends only have to run a fraction of AI where I have to run a ton for the exact same cycle dose. I do believe the PFSers are extremely sensitive to estrogen.
There is another serm that is interesting to me - Faslodex (fulvestrant). The reason why is because it actually has been shown to down regulate the estrogen receptor and even destroy it in some instances. Iām not sure if this is good, though I definitely want to try it, havenāt been able to acquire it yet though aggressively looking.
If you are going to take aromasin why donāt you just take finasteride instead? It wonāt raise your Bp as much lol. Aromasin will shut down your 5ar and dht eventually till you are back to square one, every time you take it it shuts you down more and more as its molecularly similar to dht and your body starts shutting down itās own suppressed dht. Read my thread man, start on page 3 and read up till now, I make mistakes and corrections so read on
Iām hoping this doesnāt turn into a war. JQD and ihatepropecia 702, you both seem to know a ton about countering this with hormones. Hopefully we can be amiable and you two can work together to come up with even better solutions.
ihatepropecia, how much of your recovery do you attribute your previous protocol before TRT? Do you think you could have recovered just using TRT?
And JQD, how low do you think youāre E is? Is it in the āoptimal rangeā 20-30 or do you feel better when it is as low as possible? I know you go by how you feel, so itās probably hard to say, but have you ever gone too far with Letro on this protocol and had E go too low?
Thanks guys.
The way I understand itā¦ T is converting to E so quickly if you drop to low all you need to do is add more Test and wait a little while. I think each persons body is different in this area. So you have to wing it on your own.
Iām here to possible discover what others that have PFS do when on cycle, so basically Iām hear to learn. I have the options of instant labs and expert assistance at anytime. I can obtain just about any compound, so Iām here to provide information as well. With that, and since I really want to get rid of water weight, Iām going to read this entire thread post for post. JQD is here to help too, and possibly between the two of us we may have some excellent answers/experience.
I can say a few things now with certainty.
- I did test prop at 10-15mg daily with Letrozole 2.5mg daily for a month before. My end result was complete crap, felt horrible. This is probably because my estrogen was so low. I slow titrated the letro out over a course of two weeks and then went without an ai keeping test prop at 10-15mg/ I felt MUCH better. My DHT was still the same levels which was mid 30ās. But who cares about DHT levels, was my brain fog gone? NO, and during the low e time it was actually worse. Luckily letro didnāt alter my lipids too much since I was taking a lot. It is known for running the lipid panel.