Justquitdut- you are 100% correct. They are worse then the poison they took. I have said many times I am so glad I didn’t listen to all the people that told me they couldn’t have sex again, or that the penis would never be sensitive again, or I wouldn’t enjoy chasing girls again. All that has resolved for me after 2.5 years and I’m glad I never listened to any of them. It is not androgen insenstivity of bulkshit like that. I have said often, don’t respond to them.
Justquit, again you can call the UK’s health system third world but remember where this drug originated from. Most of us wouldn’t need health care at all if it wasn’t for badly regulated American capitalism. And let’s not get started on the sub prime crisis that brought the world to its knees. Or the Iraqi war. Or the…
Another topic for another day, and another forum.
No mental sides (so you say) No crash, No insomnia, good hormone profile, NO PFS.
nice topic
Look, I am sorry for attacking you guys in the UK, after talking to a poster here (who is recovering) he said that you guys have been suffering for years. Don’t have the background I have and have tried many things and seen one futile post after another and one doctor after another. So I understand why someone can be as nasty and miserable as Dannyfc or Frustrated, but that doesn’t make it easy for me to try and post while being attacked.
These guys have NO IDEA that I have figured out this entire condition and found a treatment for it that may be a cure, and Dr Jacobs is on board. If they knew, they wouldn’t be posting all this, so it really is best I take a break from here and let recovery stories come on. I should return after people start posting experiences, this negativity isn’t helpful for anyone.
I am sorry the few bad apples ruin it for the good guys, but I feel my thread has enough, and I will post any significant updates.
It’s entirely relevant in the grand scheme of things. This is JustQuit’s topic, he is the one who got political and if the NHS is up for criticism, then I will be here to defend it. It is not the NHS’s fault to deal with such a specific problem that was entirely caused by an American drug.
Nopecia, I saw many guys like that. Lots of guys have low test (your range) and have the same symptoms, most not caused by propecia. In the UK I guess they are out of luck, but in the US they are not.
I’m of the opinion people should do whatever they feel to try and get better.
If your testosterone levels are low then it’s definitely worth trying as your symptoms may just be hypogonadism rather then PFS. I believe this is why a small number may have responded to TRT.
If your testosterone levels are within range, then by all means experiment but do not be optimistic.
All I’m pointing out is that use of testosterone-propionate + an aromatase inhibitor has been widely tried on here for years with little if any response.
Even if you don’t believe I have personally done this, search for “propionate” and read experiences dating back from 2007. Then search for “letrozole”.
Out of curiosity, do you think it’s possible that my testosterone was high to start with and therefore a level around 600 is too low? I was talking about that possibility with another PFS guy. Maybe I started at 800+ and the Propecia knocked me down a few hundred.
nopecia , 616ng/dl is it löw T?
Don’t know how the UK comes into it, you won’t get it on the NHS but testosterone is widely obtainable elsewhere. It’s not even illegal to purchase if it’s for personal use.
According to JustQuit, but he subscribes to the theory that test levels are better at the very top end of the range.
Danny, did you read all the links to forums of guys not responding to cyp but responding to prop? If you want to get better go on letrozole 2.5mg a day and start test prop 10mg a day. If you use prop at a high dose it will act just like cypionate. When I injected 30mg after a few days it was like being on a long acting water, have to keep it very low to build up dht.
You do realize dr Jacobs is intrigued by my theories, asks me to email him about them and is prescribing my protocol? You think this is about ego and yet my name is unknown and ultimately de Jacobs will get the credit. My intentions are just to help, I don’t see why you would be against that. Others are already responding to treatment, in time many recoveries will be posted here. The problem we have is once guys feel better they take off and never come back.
It's possible, that's exactly what happened to me before I went on avodart. I can tell you at 600 I wasn't so great at all, the whole sensitivity thing is directly correlated to libido. When test and dht increase, libido increases and sensitivity simultaneously. I can't believe they don't have testosterone therapy in the UK, if you were to go on gel it would help. Remember that you don't have stage 2 pfs and you will not have adverse reactions to test.I don’t doubt that test-prop is more effective then other esters. Hence why I decided to use it initially. I only switched to cypionate as I accepted that TRT wasn’t improving me, so only wanted to pin once a week rather then daily.
I encourage people to try test-prop + an AI if they think it will help them. Especially if their endogenous androgens are low.
But the fact is the forum has been going a long time and the consensus is that PFS patients do not respond to androgens. That is my experience, and a simple search of ‘propionate’ would yield many other similar experiences. This is the defining characteristic of PFS, and one people find very difficult to accept.
If that’s not your experience then fine. But until there are several other posters reporting positive results thne there is zero evidence for what you are claiming.
Just an update, Dr Jacobs wrote me a script for blod work which ill will be getting early Thursday morning. I cant wait for my results.
Im thinking for the most part everything will be fine as the labs were great a year ago but never got e2 checked. this time I have e2 on the list.
Then once dr Jacobs gets my labs he’ll email me what he thinks and then hello JQD protocol.
Im really hoping that I respond to even the 10mg eod or ed with armidex.
Again u can pretty much label me as recovered, without hormones or anything like that…just time.
but I feel I need this protocol to sorta jump start things and rebuild. Im very curious to see how my libido responds to this and also to see if my dick regains some size and weight and more importantly sensitivity. I have a feeling this will be a good thing for me but obviously a little nervous but fuck it.
If I can put propecia in my body and damage it a little, why cant I inject a little test and swallow a little armidex to get a bit better, ya know?
as for you JQD, don’t listen to these guys. They can have their opinions but you also don’t have to acknowledge them man, seriously.
This thread, your protocol is about guys feeling better and improving there lives. youre a great dude for championing this protocol.
Cmon fellas. lets ALL get better. don’t lose sight of what’s important. Are some of you actually pissing of the guy who’s trying his best to help us? really? JQD youre not going to let us suffer because of some silly things ppl are saying right?
Some of us really depend on your posts.
If you wanna be the true hero here to the ppl that want your help, then heroes are going to have to endure despite negativity from others.
Keep truckin JQD
Please don’t speak for everybody on the forum, you can only really speak for yourself.
JQD’s ideas are not really so complex to understand but they appear to be unscientific. I hope I am proven incorrect but I don’t think that will happen.
All of these different forms of testosterone that JQD mentions have different length esters attached to testosterone molecules. Propionate is an ester with 3 carbon atoms and cypionate is a ester with 8 carbon atoms for example. He is correct that forms with fewer carbon atoms (propionate vs cypionate) do have shorter half lives as it takes less time for the ester to be broken down before the testosterone molecule is dissolved in the blood stream. But the reality is that testosterone is testosterone. Once the testosterone molecule breaks off of the ester it is all the same. Until that point, a testosterone molecule bound to a ester does not have the ability to bind to 5-AR or aromatase and will not convert into either DHT or estrogen.
Think about it - why would shorter-lived molecule be more likely to convert into DHT than estrogen once it is released into the blood stream? This is not rhetorical question and it would be great if somebody could prove me wrong. You can do a quick google search on body builder forums and you will see there is no reason to think there will be less aromatization with a propionate.
Another question also remains - if our 5-alpha-reductase enzymes are down regulated or defective, how are you able to benefit just from augmenting your testosterone levels? Your enzyme activity will still be impaired and adding more substrate doesn’t solve the problem.
He may be right that we may have elevated estradiol levels. Testosterone that should have normally been converted into DHT will remain as Testosterone and perhaps eventually converted into estrogen in higher than ideal levels. This could explain why guys get gynecomastia, puffy skin, mood lability and dysfunction. Perhaps it does make sense to try an Arimidex or Letrazole. He has not yet given a sufficient explanation for why the latter is better than the former.
I don’t pretend to be some kind of expert in biochemistry but I do have access to people who are and they have been soundboards throughout the process. These issues really need to be answered since JQD has literally said he has “figured out this entire condition”.
rxmuscle.com/rx-chem/chemica … -base.html
Wait so do you need to control estrogen with test suspension or not?
I think that he said we have something messed up in our brains…and once we lower estrogen and raise testosterone, the next move is to produce more 5 alpha reductase enzymes AGAIN…since that mechanism is broken/messed up…and after a while by doing that, our body would naturally bounce back to its normal balance and Voilà PFS is reversed.