Final protocol 100% pfs reversal with dht therapy - lastpost

General Discussion
#81

I agree with much of that. I’ll trial the Aromasin for a month or two, find my sweet spot, stay in it, then decide whether or not to take it to the next level. I think there’s a good argument here that one of the keys is the testosterone:estrogen ratio. Most GP’s are ignorant to it. When TRT is decided, exogenous T boosts E levels out of range, and sexual sides persist. The result are false negatives we see on the PFS boards, ‘TRT doesn’t work’. Now, that’s a hypothesis and it needs to be proven. However, we’re not doing this research in a vacuum. Thousands of posts from steroid users who have experienced shutdown/impotency, and regained it through managing estrogen correctly + supplementing with testosterone, if necessary.

What happened to the asparagus?

#82

I wanted to also say that I do inject 1000iu of HCG a week to keep my own testosterone production up and my testicles big and pumping. If you are dead set on doing that, start at only 500iu a week, but I really think you should wait a month, let your nuts shrink (they will come back with HCG I promise). That way you can keep your estrogen as low as possible and control your testosterone perfectly so that everything will be perfect. Plus, Aromasin will help to an extent at keeping your nuts pumping, but not like HCG.
Also make sure you have Arimidex handy, if you start to experience estrogen dominance (aka pfs crash) take 1mg of Arimidex (you should feel better in 1 to 2 hours) if not then take another 1mg of Arimidex, you should feel better then in 1 to 2 hours. You must take it till you feel normal and the crash reverses and you feel horny and aggressive and your muscles will pump up from the test. I am amazed how when I reverse a crash I don’t just feel better, I feel great! I get horny and in an amazing mood, because it is testosterone causing that estrogen and one the estrogen is suppressed you feel the testosterone and DHT.
The Arimidex protocol is a backup, a safeguard, something you probably won’t need, but something you should have. Everyone is different, so you may have to tweak doses of Aromasin and testosterone propionate to suit you, but I don’t think so to be honest, this protocol is pretty good.
Don’t worry about your estrogen dropping too low, that never happened to me while on testosterone with this condition, no matter how much AI’s I took. If it happens, it isn’t a big deal, it comes right back REALLY fast, like in hours or a day. I just don’t see that as a possibility when on testosterone, the reason this condition has been untreatable is the estrogen dominance (aka crashes).
Even guys who refuse to use testosterone injections and want to use natural supplements or test boosters, you have always been limited by these crashes. Now you know what they are and how to reverse them, Aromasin will be your best friend. Most importantly, many of you guys have gone on protocols and quit after a week or 2 weeks or a month, you have to go on and stay on. Just because your estrogen spikes a little and you freak out, just lower it with an AI. No one should ever use the word “crash,” again, it should always be called “Estrogen dominance surge.” That’s why this condition has not been treated well. Guys who have been shut down for months or years, you may need to give this a couple months to work, so be patient.
Testosterone propionate is fast acting and so is Aromasin, so I can’t imagine you not feeling something the first day. Remember that the extra Arimidex you may or may not need, it is temporary till your system heals, and it will heal. Forget blood tests, just work with how you feel, what makes you feel good and normal, your body is the best tester of hormones, if everything is right you will feel good. You need to learn to recognize the sensations of each hormone. After you get yourself fixed, then you go and take the blood tests, but since they show up normal usually, they will probably show up normal again after, it is probably some nuerosteroedal undetectable hormonal thing.
Even if your natural testosterone is high, still use the testosterone propionate, you need to control these levels and keep them optimal. The reason CDnuts recovered was because he kept stimulating his 5AR with PCT cycling, the DHT was suppressive and counter productive, and that other orthodox Jewish guy, he thought there was some magic behind tribulus. He kept crashing and took a break, all bullshit, just estrogen spikes from increasing his own testosterone which was all being aromatized.
HCG will restore your natural testosterone production to better than it was before you start this protocol, so for you guys who don’t want to be on HRT long term, this is just to allow your system to recover. I assure you though, I have never seen a guy start HRT and quit lol, after you feel what testosterone injections are like you won’t go back. The point is, I never expected to find a protocol that would cause us to heal. Even if your own testosterone is good, you want to do this to stimulate your system and trigger it back on, what you are doing is the opposite of what finasteride did. The Aromasin makes it possible by being a steroid that works like DHT but without being suppressive or causing any DHT effects.
No one will ever crash from PFS again, so long as you have Aromasin and Arimidex, if anyone wants to add the HGH precursor protocol, I am happy to detail it, I just don’t want to make this confusing. The reason test propionate works better than even your own testosterone at fixing this is due to the massive DHT surges you get from propionate. Your system will detect low 5ar or low dht (perhaps it is at a neurosteroidal level), but it will fix it. When you all get better we should all have a reunion in person.
Some doctor will take credit for this, but I don’t care, your perspective of things changes after you reverse this and after all you have been through.

#83 
 Well Tumble, I was on test propionate the whole time, just trying to find ways to get myself to respond consistently, I was inadvertently doing things that was controlling the estrogen. The Asparagus definitely did something, but what's the point in discussing it when I found a protocol that not only reverses this condition 100%, but it allows you to recover and you do get better every week! 
   You know when you get better because you respond stronger to the testosterone, you will evolve on this protocol and recover. This is not a theory, it is a fact, I have reversed this in myself and 1 other, I am working with 1 very well known user on this site and once he is reversed you will all follow. For the record though, Dr Jacobs uses this approach, he just was missing testosterone propionate, otherwise there is no way to control the estrogen practically. So that is why he had success in some guys and not in others, and the ones who did listen to him eventually recovered, you will eventually recover and be able to use a longer acting ester if you are willing to deal with the estrogen dominance from the longer acting ester. This method I have is just painless and you won't suffer the estrogen negative effects. I really worry about being exposed to that much estrogen, and it feels horrible, damn is that how women feel on their periods or all the time? 
    The reason you must be on testosterone injections is due to the surges that will stimulate your system and trigger it back on. Also, you want to control your testosterone, when you inject it you can keep it the same every day, without testosterone injections you may lower your estrogen too much, with test injections and PFS, that doesn't happen. 
     There is no reason you shouldn't start this right away, please do, and report back, the more people who go on this the more information we can collect. About healing times, doses for different people that work better, this forum has a lot of smart guys, perhaps this will help Harvard's study.
#84

Dr Jacobs has helped people recover??? I visited with Dr. Jacobs a little under two years ago. He told me has cured no one from this thus far. What do you mean then by ‘recovered’?

#85 
 Who cares man? He told me he treats a lot of people and only a fraction of the cases of this condition ever go on propeciahelp. Who cares who he treated or cured, I found the protocol that has reversed this in me and 1 other and many are joining, you will soon be seeing one recovery after another. Also I told Dr Jacobs' where to get testosterone propionate, so now his office will be able to get it. 
  I urge you to go on Aromasin 25mg a day and testosterone propionate 10mg a day, in time your system will recover. I am speaking with Dr Jacobs today, I will ask him if he had any guys recover, not that it matters, he has never tried this form of test before, and I have found it to be the ONLY form any guy with PFS will respond to. 
  I know this condition is hard, but I found a way out, don't ignore it, it's just 2 freaking drugs, no big deal, PM me if you need sites to get them.
#86

For those of you who want to go on HCG right away, I recommend you start at only 500iu a week AFTER you get on Aromasin and test propionate. If you start anything before Aromasin the estrogen will be uncontrollable.

#87

Please also keep in mind I am on 30mg of test propionate a day, 25mg of aromasin a day (sometimes 1mg of arimidex when I feel estrogen symptoms rarely), plus HCG 1000iu a week. So I advise you all to start very low since I don’t know your bodies, find the right doses for yourself as you need them, listen to your body. When you start feeling good, that is the best hormone test you can take.

#88

I have a call scheduled today at 6pm EST with Dr Jacobs, I will report back after I speak with him and update him on everything, I have been emailing him, but phone is the best. I imagine I will have to pay another $500 for the phone call, but whatever, I knew solving this wouldn’t be cheap.

#89

I’m grateful for your efforts. Keep us posted.

#90

He would say that, wouldn’t he.

#91

500 $ for a phone appointment?!
I thought portugal was expensive at 80€ per appointment with a specialist…
in any case, thankyou for being helpful and doing this knowledge/experience transmission to us

#92

His methodology is correct, I recovered 70% over 3 months on just testosterone and hcg suffering pfs crashes every weekend (and very minimal doses of Arimidex). Had my doctor promoted higher doses of anti estrogens I would surely be naturally recovered by now. Without controlling estrogen recovering from this thing is possible with hormones but it’s painful, you crash with estrogen dominance every time you inject test. Every month though you get better, so he is on the right track and I can see how he has patients who have recovered or got better. All I did was replace the testosterone type to propionate which he didn’t know about. It hits you hard with 5ar and dht but then wears off before you run out of 5ar enzymes and suffer estrogen dominance (crash). It’s not perfect, but it works, and you slowly get better every month as your system has the ability to recover. It’s like having a wound that can’t heal because you can’t stop the bleeding. In our case estrogen is the bleeding, once you control it it allows our body to recover (particularly by inducing dht with propionate in low doses).

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#93

This condition sucks the very essence of life out of life, so I see now point in doing anything but fixing this condition, can’t go on dates, can’t enjoy life, can’t laugh or have sex or do anything when this condition is in full effect. So I changed my priorities in life from dating and focusing on my business to focusing on fixing this problem, that is my business, my dating, my social life, everything else is irrelevant. I figured I would just start over my life after this was over, thankfully I can afford to pay right now, so I found a way out of this hell.
It would be immoral not to share it, I don’t need to speak to him on the phone, but it’s comforting and I want to share with him what I’m doing voice to voice. He definitely has the right approach, it just needed some modifications.

#94

Hey JustQuit,

have you tried the protocol without the HCG for a month? Word is Leutinizing Hormone plays a big role in that horny feeling. Be interested if you still feel 100% without the HCG for awhile.

#95

Look, I’m sorry to rain on the parade here and I want to say upfront that I don’t doubt you’re doing great on this protocol. I’m also willing to try it myself if I could get my hands on T Propionate – I mean, who knows, maybe I’ll get a response. But…

…that statement you made above really makes me wonder if you’re dealing with something different than me, and others like me. Not saying you don’t have PFS or anything like that. But me – and many, many others on here – got ZERO improvement doing just testosterone. So the fact that you got 70% better just doing that puts you in a different class than a lot of guys here.

Also: you wrote earlier with confidence that this will resolve naturally in 4 years time. Again, not the experience of lots of guys here. Me, I’m 2 1/2 years in and I’m just as bad now as I’ve been the whole time. In some ways (body composition), it’s getting worse.

Additionally, you keep writing about all of these dramatic, individual highly recognizable “crashes” that you’re experiencing – I think you said you’ve had like 30 of them in the past few months. Again, this is not what PFS is like for me and for many others here. Our condition is not that variable. We don’t feel our sex drive come and go so dramatically. Instead, it just exists in a constant, steady severely reduced state. Pre-PFS, I would obviously have days when I was hornier than others. With PFS, it’s like that variability has been reduced by 90%. On a bad day, I’m at 0%; on a good day I’m at 10%. But no dramatic swings and discrete crashes.

I am not questioning whether you have PFS. But I do wonder if it hit you differently than me and many others, affected you in a different way. And the confidence with which you’re promoting this protocol as the answer makes me feel I should speak up and throw in a note of caution.

I also am not sure the mechanism you’re suggesting meshes with my experience.As I’ve written, the first T injection I took 2 years ago did bring my sexual function back 100%. It was amazing. And then it stopped. Now, you say this is because the estrogen built up, wasn’t properly controlled and that every subsequent injection them made me worse. But…that’s not quite how it happened with me. Because that first injection actually worked on and off for 2 weeks; which is to say, my sex drive and brain/dick connection and dick size came back when I took the shot, then disappeared for a day, then came back, then disappeared and so on – for two weeks. Then, it finally stopped for good. So what you’re saying about this simply being an estrogen build-up doesn’t quite mesh. If it was, then once I stopped feeling the effect of that T shot, my sex drive should have been gone, period. Instead, as I just wrote, it kept coming back. So I think something else was going on with me.

Please don’t take this the wrong way. I do like that you’re posting here and I am interested in trying propionate – what do I have to lose? But I’d urge you to be a little more cautious about some of your more sweeping pronouncements, given the experiences of others here.

#96

I can easily answer all your questions, first off we do have the same condition, I am and have been non responsive to testosterone just like you, my 30 crashes were not because I had PFS and was just sitting here doing nothing. I have been injecting testosterone every week and crashing and suffering over 30 crashes about, I was controlling the estrogen with HGH, I just at the time did not know it was estrogen dominance. As soon as I found out it made controlling it much easier. Every month I got better and better though, did you consistently stay on testosterone for 6 months? There were weeks I had NO response, there was a month I had no response, then I had a response, I couldn’t figure out why till now.
I am sorry recent quitter, you just don’t understand how hormones work, the fact that you did not “feel” testosterone but your sex drive kept coming back doesn’t mean anything. You had some 5AR activity that was intermittently reducing test to DHT and at times killing some estrogen and giving you improvement until eventually you were overcome by estrogen and gave up. I didn’t give up, I kept taking test every week, sometimes felt crashes, sometimes not, mostly felt nothing, eventually started to improve, then crash, then improve more, then crash. I couldn’t figure out why and got frustrated and switched to DHT which set me all the way back.
It was estrogen dominance, if I had used Aromasin instead of DHT I would have been 100% better by now, my point is you recover via stimulation of the 5AR enzymic activity and DHT. If you keep estrogen at bay you can feel it, but not on any other form of testosterone but testosterone propionate. It is not possible to control the estrogen otherwise.

#97

OK, but I didn’t just give up when I stopped getting a response from the T. I continued for 9 more months. We tried varying the dosage and frequency, and while I was using Armidex and not Aromasin I that time, I was taking an aromatase inhibitor. Under your theory, wouldn’t I have felt something? Even if only for a day or to after each injection, before it converted into estrogen and overwhelmed me?

Also, I stopped taking testosterone in September 2013 - more than a year ago. But then I took another injection this fall - a year later. Small amount - .4cc. And this time with aromasin, not Armidex. Felt nothing. Shouldn’t I have gotten at least some response?

#98

Let’s pass the hat…I got $150 toward that $500. Let me know where to send it JQD.

#99

JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH DR JACOBS

No, I felt nothing until I started using an HGH precursors which induced HGH which regulates 5AR and HGH is super anabolic so was making it work. I wasn’t practical, I was living by the needle like a drug user, since I discovered Aromasin and propionate the ballgame has changed. Injecting enanthate or cypionate with this condition is futile, there is no way to control the estrogen.
I just got off the phone with Dr Jacobs and explained to him the test propionate, gave him the pharmacy for it, so he has it now, also he told me I can submit these charges of his to my insurance and they may reimburse me, so good for you guys to know. If you pay him out of pocket, you may get your money back if you have insurance.
Dr Jacobs told me he has been studying Testosterone Propionate since I emailed him about it and he is impressed with it, he said I was teaching him somethings, you know what? That makes him an awesome doctor, every other doctor I have been to would never admit that I knew things they did not know, they would stay silent and make me feel like an idiot.
Dr Jacobs is a class A act, because being humble and admitting someone knows something you don’t is not something every doctor does, but let it be noted that my theories on PFS would not be possible had I not met Dr Jacobs and learned about Aromasin. I explained to him why enanthate and cypionate does not work, how I can feel the estrogen consistently being released and how I can counter it hour by hour with arimidex. He is going to start working with propionate and trying it, I am happy because whatever helps him help others will help him help us, perhaps he will use what I have come up with to come up with something better.
He checked my blood levels and was impressed with how I was able to have my testosterone so high and my DHT up but my Estrogen at a perfect level, I explained to him that I can feel estrogen and DHT and I have been responding immediately to these hormones and regulating them myself. So I have never allowed myself to suffer with estrogen dominance, I have been regulating my hormones, when DHT is too low, I stimulate it, when estrogen is too high, I lower it.
You all and him too are very much into tests, I don’t care, I can feel the hormones, I know what is normal and what isn’t, but the good news is this protocol I have come up with is a simple way to reverse this. As for if we will recover over time, that is my theory, he wouldn’t answer yes or no, he is an honest guy, he isn’t going to make false promises, I know we do recover. I explained to him how on testosterone by regulating my crashes (that at the time I did not know was estrogen) I managed to recover to about 70%. I crashed that recovery and reset it with DHT use, but this time around I know exactly what to do and how to fix this and every week and month I will improve.
He told me he had thought Aromasin was enough to control estrogen on test enanthate and cypionate and I explained to him that that was BULLSHIT, it’s not his fault, it is this condition. That’s why this condition has been so hard to treat, most guys wouldn’t know what estrogen feels like or looks like or how to counter it. I know that it takes unseemly amounts of AI’s to keep estrogen in check from enanthate or cypionate, and Aromasin is but a drop in the bucket.
So in the end he agreed with me about propionate and wants to see how I evolve over time, he is a good doctor, he is working on something no one else is, and he is trying, studying it. I recommend you all go to him, and if you have insurance, apparently you might be able to get it to reimburse you. I hope this email didn’t come off as arrogant, I know I have that problem, but it is just how I type I think.

#100 
   I have a feeling my insurance company will not reimburse me, thank you for the offer, but I will not be accepting any money, I just want us all to recover, instead donate your money to the foundation. I have chosen to spend my money on finding a treatment/cure, it is fucking costly, but here we are, we have a treatment, now we just have to get as many people on it as possible and see how people recover with it. The good news is now you can get everything from Dr Jacobs legitimiately.  
    I may have reversed the condition, but after 30 crashes or so in 6 months, I am traumatized, I have PTSD, I have women after me and guys after me, but I reject them all. I hang out downtown with friends at a hangout and just sit on my phone researching this stuff, it will take me time to heal. Don't think you just recover and that's it, this is like having been through a war, I am fucked up now. So until I emotionally heal and my body starts to recover from this protocol (and I respond stronger and stronger to test), I will be here to help others, it seems to help me feel better. 
    I think humanity is amazing, that we have all been able to come together from around the world and combine our resources and all of us with different approaches and look at what we have accomplished, Harvard studies, protocols that are working, a possible long term treatment and cure.