I thought you said Aromasin will do the same job as hcg ?
No, not the same job, it will help, but it definitely will not do the same job as HCG, HCG will prevent and reverse testicular atrophy and keep natural testosterone production up and normal. Normally I would say start 1000iu a week with the protocol, but HCG releases a lot of estrogen and you need to see for yourself this protocol works before you venture into HCG which could cause too much estrogen and blind you to the effects of this protocol. After a month or a few weeks, then you can start hcg, I recommend start low at 500iu a week and get up to 1000 at some point.
People on here have used hcg but most have not recovered from testicular atrophy.
I have read all the stories, if your estrogen is so high nothing male can happen, the hcg will work once you have estrogen under control and are inducing dht. The longer you do nothing the worse the damage gets. I can tell you first hand no other form of testosterone works, I tried enanthate after being on propionate for a while, figured I could handle it with the Aromasin, no go. Thankfully I have enough AI’s here to reverse the estrogen dominance or “pfs crash.” Only this protocol works, however, after a few months on it you may get to a point where you can handle a once a week form of test. The key is controlling estrogen and stimulating 5ar and dht without causing the release of too much estrogen. I have tried dht therapies and they have worked when done right but only for their anti estrogen properties and they set me back. This protocol is the only one that will work. If everyone on this forum went on it there would be lots of recovery stories, I will try to promote this as long as I can till I move on.
I have been getting lots of emails from people who want to try this protocol and go to dr Jacobs, some have offered to fly and see me. I urge you guys not to spend a fortune on flights, they are not necessary, I know you want to do something, I was there. However, first buy this stuff online and get yourself up and running, then once you do sign up with Dr Jacobs remotely. No need to spend money flying all over the world, the treatment is simple. First and foremost get on Aromasin, get the estrogen under control. Get on testosterone propionate 10mg a day, you will slowly start to feel like yourself again, then sign up with Dr Jacobs so you have that support. He can treat you remotely, having dr Jacobs gives you credibility if anyone says you are crazy, or if for some reason the protocol stops working or something goes wrong or you need to change things, it gives you peace of mind. I am happy to help whoever, I just want you guys to first try on your own, it is not complicated.
I feel it is my duty to help everyone, so I am here, if you need sites to buy this stuff PM me, I have a collection of a zillion reputable sites to buy all sorts of stuff. Thankfully these 2 items are very common. HCG is important, but not essential, you want to get on it eventually, but it is not essential as part of recovery, you will need it though to keep your own testosterone functioning and your nuts plump. Body builders usually use it post cycle, HRT doctors use it on testosterone long term, I just feel it is best to wait a month since HCG produces a lot of estrogen, since I am not there or not you, I don’t know your body, so keeping estrogen down is the best thing till you get this working then you can go on it. If you have an estrogen surge you know why and can lower the dose of HCG.
I am happy to help anyone remotely if you want my contact info just ask for it, I ask for nothing in return and will not accept anything in return but your happiness.
So what’s the protocol? Testosterone propionate + aromasin + hcg (if necessary).
I had good boners on Aromasin, although I took too much and drove E2 down too low. I’ve done a fair amount of anecdotal research on steroid use, and bodybuilders note estrogen has to be kept within a sweet spot = too high or too low = no boners, sex drive, libido. Estrogen also suppresses testosterone production via the HPTA. Men who are estrogen dominant suffer from reduced testosterone, as the body gauges testosterone levels via estrogen levels (the body assumes high estrogen levels equate to high testosterone levels, which causes a reduction in LH and FSH). I can’t confirm, but I hear DHT is also a potent anti-estrogen, so fin would knock out the bodies natural anti-estrogen and cause estrogen levels to rise > testosterone to decline = sexual side effects.
I get the theory, but many guys here have tried TRT with no avail. I would also note many guys who did try TRT did not control estrogen correctly or adequately with an anti-estrogen drug (armidex or aromasin or letrozole), simply out of ignorance.
I just started a multi-month trial of aromasin again. 6.25 mg every three days, for a month, then reassess. Every persons make up is different. There is no one “right” aromasin dose for everyone. Each body aromatizes estrogen at different rates, which can differ depending on how much testosterone they have circulating in the body. It’s really a trial and error process. Glad it’s working for you JustQuit.
JustQuit can you describe how you feel on this? Improvements in libido? Boners? etc. Thanks.
Hey there, you must do the protocol as I am doing it, the key is to get your own testosterone under your control, if you are injecting testosterone propionate it will work, no other form of testosterone works. That is the problem, there is NO WAY to control estrogen from any other form of testosterone other than propionate. That is why guys have always failed, and you must take 25mg of aromasin a day, don’t worry about lowering your estrogen too much, that won’t happen when on testosterone propionate as our bodies aromatize most test and don’t produce enough 5AR enzymes to reduce the test to DHT (which kills estrogen)
Aromasin is a “prosthetic” DHT if you will, it acts as DHT without suppressing your own DHT so that your body will detect low DHT and start to compensate, you will start to recover. I have 100% reversal on this protocol, and as every day and week goes by my body recovers more and more. The Key is keeping estrogen down, you must be on the 25mg a day, and the test propionate 10-20mg a day, HCG 1000iu a week will keep your own testosterone production up and keep your estrogen up.
For the record, I have taken Aromasin, letrozole, arimidex, in large doses on testosterone and never lowered my estrogen too much, off of it I am sure, but not on it. In time as your system recovers you will need less Aromasin, there is a site that sells AI’s in liquid form and with a syringe to measure it and shoot it in your mouth, they are flavored too. They say it is for “Research purposes,” to get around the law, but it is for body builders.
Good deal too on the stuff, I stock pile the AI’s, they are necessary, I do believe that on Aromasin at a lower dose and on nothing a PFS sufferer could have improvement over time. The key is that this isn’t going to cause you to recover over night, it will start reversing the condition where eventually the protocol will compensate for your condition and you will feel 100% normal.
Then it will create the condition for your body to naturally recover, you simply cannot recover your male system with estrogen levels through the roof. They may be neursteroidal I don’t know why they don’t show up on tests. I am beyond caring, I found what works, duplicated it in another PFS sufferer with the same success, trying a third now. I am hoping all will go on this, you can always stop down the road if you don’t want to be on test long term, the hcg keeps your nuts active and also will reverse whatever damage PFS has caused to your testicles and penis.
I didn’t think this condition was recoverable, I would get better then crash, but I was better, just crashing, that was estrogen dominance, I did not know that at the time. I reset myself to when I first crashed by using DHT, DHT suppressed my system like avodart, so stay away from it. However, on this protocol I have full reversal, muscles, mood, erections, libido bla bla… and It gets better over time as your body is allowed to recover more and more. Don’t be afraid of estrogen, you may get some symptoms of it on this protocol, just take some arimidex if you do ontop of the aromasin and you will be fine.
Mostly though you should be fine on the 25mg of Aromasin and the 10-20mg daily of test prop, everyone is different as you pointed out, so you can change the doses around. Just forget the “Crash” bs, there is no such thing as a PFS crash, it is ESTROGEN and fully reversible, when you start thinking that way it gives you power over this disease and the ability to fight it which before recently I did not have. It was the last piece of the puzzle and Dr Jacobs helped me there.
and Never EVER EVER EVER EVER take any other form of testosterone other than propionate till you know you have healed more, because it hits hard, induces DHT and clears your system before it stays behind reeking PFS estrogen havoc. That is the golden bullet these doctors have all missed, and trust me when I tell you, the only way to control the estrogen with PFS on any other form of test is taking 1mg of arimidex every hour which is not practical or something anyone wants to do. It just illustrates how much of a problem estrogen is.
With propionate if you inject too much or you have too much of an estrogen surge, the good news is that in a day it will wear off and you won’t feel the estrogen. Though you probably won’t with 25mg of aromasin a day, but keep arimidex on hand, if you ever feel any even on Aromasin, it is fully reversible. Just forget the “Crash,” start thinking of it as estrogen, that is the first step to defeating this condition. Running in fear and quitting everything because you feel estrogen is why so many guys have been stuck like this for years. Estrogen makes you terrified, so you aren’t even in control of your own thoughts. It gives you panic, anxiety, muscle twitches, trouble taking deep breaths, agony and misery and extreme fear.
Find within yourself the strength to understand what it is and how to defeat it, do not allow this condition to take over your mind. I have fought back against 27 crashes, and now I have PFS by the balls, and I have an arsenal of weaponry here to fight it, and I get better every day. In the meantime I am 100% in reversal, my point is that eventually as my system recovers I will be able to handle a longer acting testosterone ester.
You will be surprised how quickly you recover from this protocol as it works very much like our natural hormone release, it is instant and daily.
JustQuitDut what happened to your HGH protocol ? Have you given up on that ?
JQD has been awesome throughout this whole thing, how he has time to answer all of our questions as promptly as he does is beyond me. Every time I email him he responds immediately, gladly sharing all his information. It pisses me off to see fools on here talk crap to him or anyone else for that matter that is attempting to do something about it. Someone, I forget who replied to a post i made criticizing me for encouraging JQD’s efforts…c’mon. If I want to commend JQD or Tumbleweeds or anyone else for that matter it’s my peragative. I understand that it’s dangerous and risky to experiment, but so is doing nothing at all. A male body with an overobundence of estrogen is just as dangerous as the risk he and others like tumbleweeds are taking. I haven’t had the opportunity to get started on JQD’s protocol, but I am confident that I too will reverse this horrible syndrome. I have lost complete confidence in western medicine and this ordeal is not a priority to the medical community. JQD and Tumbleweeds have done extensive research in their own right, I sincerely thank them. I offered to fly to see JQD and pay him for treatment to which he replied “save your money, I’ll help you no need to pay me. I just want everyone to get better…” The dude is legit, tenacious and kind. I hope to meet up with him one day soon after this mess is behind us to thank him personally and compensate him for his efforts. That goes to Tumbleweeds too, he was real cool and open to discussing different possibilities as well, I’m glad to see him on some of JQD’s posts. Tumbleweeds really started to hone in on the Aromasin a few months back…thats two individuals coming to the same conclusion. Peace out brothers, stay strong, we’ll beat this thing!
how can i convince a doctor of this? How can i prove to him im estrogen dominant when my test is normal value?
There must be some sort of ratios…
how did u get testosterone and aromasin?
Please keep us updated. I would really appreciate it if the ppl who are trying this protocol share their experiences with us
The HGH protocol is extremely helpful and reverses quickly a lot of the damage because HGH is the healing and growing hormone. I didn’t include it in my recovery protocol because I do not believe it is necessary. For the record, before I understood these crashes were estrogen dominance, I was able to control them with inducing my own HGH. So instead of aromasin I would inject my HGH precursors and induce my own HGH and HGH happens to have an affect of regulating 5ar and is very anabolic so it would reverse the crashes. That and testosterone propionate is how I got so far, then I made the mistake of going on dht, while it worked (but not in the way I thoight) it was acting as a potent anti estrogen, it may have been doing other things too, but it reset my condition to when I first crashed from avodart. While on it I could handle large doses of test even now, but the mystery is solved, it was just blocking estrogen receptors so that estrogen couldn’t work, that’s what it was designed to do for women with cancer anyway.
It was after this that I met dr Jacobs and learned about Aromasin, he didn’t explain too much, but with just hearing his treatment protocols it lead me in the direction of this being estrogen. I first found out it was estrogen dominance by taking 1mg of Arimidex every hour and noticed I kept improving. I ordered Aromasin and while I waited for it to come (because dr Jacobs and no one else would prescribe it till test results) I took Arimidex every hour. This worked consistently, I knew then for a fact what this was. For a week I lived by arimidex, reversing a crash as bad as my first crash with Arimidex.
I stopped the masteron and dht when I discovered this (that was before the high doses of Arimidex). When Aromasin came I immediately took it and was amazed that 1 dose worked the whole day. I had reset myself though, that’s how I know that we do recover. Before I started dht after 4 or 5 months of hormones my system recovered about 70%. I ignorantly took the dht thinking it was the last piece of the puzzle. So I am starting over, but this time I have decided pfs and I can counter it.
Low doses of test propionate every day and Aromasin 25mg daily and my system started to improve every day. So that explains why doctors always say we will recover and we don’t, the problem in us is that the ratio of our estrogen is so high it shuts down out 5ar and dht (which is already fucked by pfs). So we have no chance of recovery without controlling the estrogen and stimulating the 5ar enzymes to reduce test to dht.
We do not have enough dht to kill estrogen, that’s where this miracle drug Aromasin comes in handy, a non suppressive steroidal anti estrogen designed off of the model of dht. Designed to give women the benifits of dht without the masculinization of dht. That modification allows us to take this drug without suppressing out own dht and this our systems can heal over time. I do recommend the HGH protocol, but it’s a bit complicated and since it is not necessary I left it out. The HGH protocol will restore damage to skin and muscle and collagen and give you more energy, make you grow younger.
I recommend you keep things simple, test propionate and Aromasin (and Arimidex incase you need more estrogen control). I have found taking an extra Aromasin can be counter productive, it’s a steroid and at least for me will speed me up too much if I take a second dose sometimes.
In time as my system recovers again (like before) I’ll need less AI and be able to take more test and eventually long acting test. I’m not sure how long I will have to be on Aromasin, or any of us, but it’s not a big deal, don’t count on the researchers to come up with anything better. Nothing will come out of it that will do anything but legitimize dr Jacobs and others. Dr Jacobs is on the most correct path, he just doesn’t have pfs and doesn’t realize how fucking much estrogen is being released from a cypionate or enanthate injection. Propionate is not something doctors are too familiar with, in not quite sure dr Jacobs even understands yet what it is. I have a call scheduled Thursday with him where I will go over all this on the phone vs email.
So having watched my system recover and set back and knowing the reasons now, the solution is quite simple. You must stay on it and give it time, you will come around. Though everyone should respond as I am and my system has been reset to 0. I found that out the hard way by injecting test enanthate, experienced a crash like my first, I reversed it with high doses of AI’s. That was when I realized that a good thing came out of that, now I know propionate is all I can handle till my system recovers more.
So to sum things up, I was using the HGH protocol as an anti estrogen, by regulating 5ar activity it was inducing dht and killing estrogen. Proviron is much easier, but it has its limits, it can only kill so much estrogen, that’s why you need to start with a low dose of test and increase when you feel you are ready maybe every month. Most importantly, do not fear estrogen, it’s just a hormone, there is no more pfs boogeyman hiding behind the closet. I have found him out and he is estrogen, controllable, explainable, defeatable. Find within yourselves the strength to use your brain to understand all of this, and with the right weapons you can reverse this and allow the wound to heal.
My mother always mentions I should sue Merck, I don’t care right now, I just focused on solving this, when I am fully recovered I will come back for my revenge and justice, but in the meantime I must help others. Also, I advise you to sign up with dr Jacobs after you get this under control, so that no one can question you, or your disorder, or your treatments. Dr Jacobs has been willing to prescribe Aromasin and also propionate, but currently they can’t find it, there is another pharmacy that has it. I’ll discuss that with dr Jacobs tomorrow.
If you can’t afford dr Jacobs you don’t need him, he is a luxury, I don’t need him but he makes me feel better, knowing I have a doctor who believes me! Oh yes, I have a list of doctors I plan to sue for denying that pfs exists and that I had it, for ignoring me, for refusing me treatment. When I am fully restored I will come back and ruin them all, but for now I have just reversed the condition, my body is healing. I have ptsd from this condition and 27 crashes and months of recoveries and crashes, I knew how to recover, but I didn’t know what the crashes were, now I do.
I believe everything happens for a reason, perhaps my reason was to help others here, I don’t know. It was bound to happen, with this forum, someone would come along and figure it out and finish it. It’s not like I am advocating eating apples or doing yoga, I have just filled in the missing links in dr Jacobs’ treatment protocol. Now we know why he was inconsistently successful, it’s not his fault, it doesn’t show on tests. Why? I don’t know, but the human body has an amazing ability to heal, I agree with the people here who say that. The problem was that the estrogen was preventing the wound from healing. I am sure that if you guys had remained on testosterone and Aromasin you would eventually recover, because I did over time and just kept crashing. I finally gave up and went for the dht, but the point is dr Jacobs is in the right direction.
Anyone who wishes to challenge me feel free to, this is full proof, it’s a reality I already am experiencing. Don’t be fooled thoigh, this won’t be easy, you still have a long road ahead. Some of you will need time to feel normal perhaps, but I don’t know, I’m pretty much reset to zero and the protocol is working. It seems that estrogen shuts down dht when the ratio is too high, that makes matters worse. A compromised 5ar system, not reducing enough test to dht, not enough dht to kill estrogen, then most test being aromatized into estrogen and then estrogen shutting down what little 5ar and dht activity we have. That’s why this condition has been so difficult to treat.
Fuck convincing your doctor, just do it yourself, if you feel you need a doctor contact dr Jacobs. Though he wanted to wait for my test results and he is just acting like a doctor and being careful. I couldn’t wait, as soon as he said the name Aromasin I ordered it. I advise you to get on the protocol and start fixing yourself and if you feel you need a dr contact dr Jacobs. All can be purchased online on a zillion websites. Pm me if you want some legit sites, you can also just google “top steroid sites,” you will find bodybuilder forums with lists of the best sites and you can google their name and the word “review,” to make sure they are legit. Or just pm me and I’ll give you some sites.
Thank you perfect gent, I come on here on my iPhone, I’m an obsessive problem solver, I will become consumed with something till I solve it. I have the unique ability to turn on and never shut off and learn and probkem solve faster than normal people. I also text extremely fast and read extremely fast, so while this has consumed me I have pushed everyone out of my life. I hangout at this cool hangout where they serve this drink called “Kratom,” addictive but a vice that has helped me. I have friends here I hang out here around, and I just login to this site from my phone. Sometimes at the gym, I just find that it has helped me to feel better.
I maintained my looks and body throughout this ordeal, I have women and guys after me, I have no interest. I just need some time to recover from this ordeal emotionally and spiritually, and estrogen made me crazy. That’s why I was posting so much stuff, that’s estrogen, but I was pumping myself with testosterone too so it was a mix. I have become a lot more calm since I controlled my estrogen, and the good news is this cannot fail. We know now this crash is estrogen and fully reversible and controllable. Even if you don’t recover on this protocol, you will at least have hour life back and sexual and libido back.
You will start out with this protocol being normal again, that burst everyone gets from injecting test but then doesn’t get it again. You will get that burst every day, and by controlling the estrogen you will continue to get it. So whatever problem we have, once you take away the estrogen and induce the 5ar and dht, your body will start to detect your dht is low, who knows, maybe it’s a neurosteroid problem, but who cares? We know people recover usually at the 4 year mark, I don’t know about you guys, but I rather spend those 4 years feeling 100% reversed. Though I beliebe with this protocol the 4 years will be reduced to 3 to 6 months. Some of you who have allowed estrogen to ravage your bodies will need to give it time. However, they do sex change operations and convert old men into women and vice versa, so we always respond to hormones. Whatever damage you have will reverse, we aren’t androgen desensitized, not at all. If we were we wouldn’t feel misery from estrogen and bursts from testosterone, no, the problem is simple and so is the solution, like most things in life.
You are all my friends and thanks for your messages of support, I don’t care if some people don’t like me, I just want some to recover so the others follow. No one should suffer this fate, it’s horrible.
Oh don’t worry, they will, some may have to tweak doses but they will figure it out, and in a year this forum will be very different I feel.
You the man Justquit!!! You have done so much for this forum! It absolutely has to be some estrogen issue regardless of your numbers, I had very low estradiol but my dentist says he has never seen make teeth bleed like this, only women in their second trimester
Thanks Finatruth my friend, yes I noticed as my estrogen was high I bled essier from my injections too, didn’t know that was also a side of estrogen. If you guys want to know my theory about why it doesn’t show up on tests, here it is. Our hormones cycle, think of it like a water fountain, water constantly cycles through it, if you stop the fountain the amount of water remains the same, but the fountain stops. I believe this is an interruption of the 5ar enzymic system which in turn stops the cycle of test to dht and dht killing estrogen. It is also possible that it is more neurosteroidal, either way, I don’t care, I know what’s going on and how to fix it. Most importantly guys when you go on this protocol buy lots of Arimidex along with the Aromasin. You can’t really get more effect from more than 25mg of aromasin in a 24 hour period. Though I did when I took a second dose after 9 hours but it amped me up. So if you start feeling estrogen, just start taking Arimidex 1mg an hour and wait (Arimidex works real fast) if in an hour you don’t feel better take another. Don’t worry, in studies Arimidex was safely used up to 60mg and was studied at 10mg a day. If you keep your test propionate dose low enough the 25mg of aromasin will be all you need. As time goes by you will notice you are having more and more response to test which means you are starting to recover, so you can then up your dose of you want. Just remember there is no such thing as a pfs crash, it’s estrogen, but unfortunately you all need test propionate. You can’t rely on your own testosterone, for this therapy you need stable levels that can be controlled. Lowering estrogen too much will give you symtoms, but that has yet to happen to me while being on testosterone with this condition.
And for the guys who don’t want to do anything, estrogen is very dangerous, it causes cancer, they have never been able to link any male hormones to causing cancer yet. The medical community is divided on prostate cancer actually, the men who get it are usually older with declined test and dht levels and higher estrogen levels. If male hormones caused cancer then young guys who have the highest hormones would all be getting it. So I wouldn’t worry about taking male hormones, I would worry about allowing these amounts of estrogen to flow through your body, who knows what will happen in the future. Once cancer starts then it can grow with male hormones, but they never have linked them to the cause. It’s always estrogen, I know a few doctors on HRT and the one who didn’t go on because he was afraid of cancer. Well guess what, out of the lot of doctors all are fine except the one who was afraid to go on hormones, he ended up with prostate cancer. You weren’t afraid to take a drug that fucked up your hormones and now afraid to take hormones that will fix it. I can’t wait till we have our first reported reversal from this (besides me and the pfs sufferer I helped who will not post here).