Would someone for gods sake give this guy a ban?
Hi all, I know many here do not understand my personality on here, many privately message me, but I ask you all to put your prejudices aside and for the greater good read on. I have finally found the golden protocol that not only has reversed my condition for 2 months, but with the help of dr Jacobs, I have perfected it, figured out why none other protocols have worked. Let me first explain myself, I have studied hormones for years before pfs, particularly the 5ar enzyme. That is how I got into this mess, I was in the beauty business and had over active sebaceous glands and was searching for a way to shut them off (little did I know). I did not realize until much later into pfs that my accutane use when I was younger and my years on finasteride were manifesting this condition already. Avodart just triggered it into effect, but the good news is it is reversible, and the reversal protocol will cause your body to recover naturally. That is why CDNuts recovered, your body will come a long way on its own slowly, but inducing the 5ar enzymic system speeds up the process (which is what CDnuts did with legal hormones).
Pfs is damage to the body’s ability to produce or regulate 5ar activity consistently, as a result our bodies are aromatizing most of our testosterone (converting it to estrogen). Dht is a hormone which is responsible for all male and masculine characteristics. Dht also regulates estrogen, it does so by annihilating it (the same way Aromasin does). However, the 5ar enzyme is a continuous process that is constantly cycling through our system, constantly reducing testosterone to dht which in turn is regulating estrogen (by destroying it).
An injection of any form (except propionate) of testosterone will produce in a pfs sufferer such severe estrogen dominance that no amount of AI’s can control it consistently. At first some will have results as their body produces more dht, later your bodies will produce even more estrogen which will overtake the dht and shut down all male hormones and feminizes the body.
AI’s all only block estrogen, but it remains in your system circulating, when you stop the AI’s it comes back with a vengance. What we all have called “crashes,” is actually estrogen dominance, muscle twitches, trouble taking deep breaths, panic, anxiety, despair, bloating, shrinking muscles etc… It is reversible with anti estrogens, but none are strong enough. I have every kind, on traditional testosterone I have only been able to stop and reverse cashes by taking 1mg every hour or Arimidex. The steady release of testosterone from the injection might as we’ll be estrogen.
Some here have tried proviron with no results, some had some that then faded, that is because proviron is synthetic dht, it will destroy estrogen (like Aromasin), but it will suppress your own compromised dht production. You will crash harder after as you have reset your dht to when you first crashed. Masteron will work for a period if you are on testosterone, but only as a super potent anti estrogen that is releasing a synthetic dht which is fighting for estrogen receptors and blocking our own estrogen. Off of testosterone it will not work unless you have good testosterone, but it will suppress your own dht and you will crash hard later as all the estrogen that is still circulating comes back to kick your ass. It is reversible with enough anti estrogen drugs, but none of you would ever take the doses required.
Now, there is a drug called Aromasin, Aromasin is a steroidal anti estrogen, it is designed from a dht derivitive, it annihilates estrogen the same way dht does, but it does not suppress your own dht. It was designed to lower estrogen in women the same way dht does in men, but without the masculinization. So what do we do? Testosterone propionate is a form of testosterone which has a 24 hour half life and induces a high amount of 5ar and thus dht, it fades away over 24 hours so that there is no huge estrogen release constantly going on. No other AI will consistently work except Aromasin, Aromasin will destroy the estrogen as our dht was designed to. Now, here is the good part, by stimulating the 5ar enzymic system this way, and by keeping estrogen lowered, it gives our system a chance to recover. It is nearly impossible to recover when your body is releasing huge amounts of estrogen and blocking out your male hormones.
The dose of testosterone propionate has to be low enough to not release more estrogen than the Aromasin can destroy. And many here have tried testosterone without being on hcg, hcg keeps your own testosterone functioning, when you take external testosterone your testicles shrink, hcg reverses this so that your own production is never compromised. Using this protocol you will all respond to it, eventually you will get better and better as the estrogen levels are lowered and dht levels increased.
I have reversed this condition now for 2 months, it wasn’t till I met dr Jacobs that I found out what Aromasin was and was able to complete this puzzle. I realized that masteron only helped me because it was suppressing my estrogen enough for me to respond to the extended version of testosterone. Due to my masteron use I have reset my dht to starting levels again from my first crash, yet I still respond to this protocol with pfs in reversal.
Aromasin is a prosthetic dht (if you will), it is a bandage to allow the testosterone propionate to work and our system to recover. I have been through 27 crashes, I remained on hrt, initially I did not know about the estrogen issue. I recovered in 3 months by inducing my dht, only I crashed later from my massive estrogen buildup and release.
How much testosterone propionate depends on the person, between 10mg to 100mg, but start low, Aromasin is required, hcg is required at 1000mcg a week to maintain your own testosterone. CDnuts recovered by using a prohormone version of dht and hcg, I do not believe the dht played a role in his recovery, it was the pct’s he kept doing that did.
Dht is suppressive, we must induce our own and allow for recovery to occur, it is unlikely you will naturally recover if you have had this for more than 6 months. The estrogen prevents the recovery, taking anti estrogens without external testosterone will back fire. You will lower your estrogen too much, the problem can only be solved this way.
Dr Jacobs agrees with my protocol, I am scheduling a phone call with him this week to discuss with him my final theory. Though, this is no longer theory, I have used it to reverse my condition. No other form of testosterone will work, with testosterone cypionate or enanthate so much estrogen is released that Aromasin can’t touch it. Those if you who are against hormones, you can quit this protocol once your system recovers, the hcg will keep your own production pumping.
So far I believe I am the only person to have pfs in reversal with hormones for 2 months straight. I had a couple near crashes when I tried longer acting testosterone esters, I reversed the crashes with ridiculous amounts of anti estrogens.
I have been through a lot, 26 or so crashes, can you imagine that? All to study and fix this, I could not live this way, and I wasn’t prepared to kill myself. I have too much to live for, I had to solve this myself. I have a unique ability to solve problems others cannot, my brain works a little different than most others. I know I come across as arrogant, but I am just eccentric and it comes off as arrogant in text. I urge you all to start this protocol, I will answer any questions or challenges to this model which I have come to rely on without letting me down.
For the record, testosterone propionate isn’t used much these days, it’s a body builder form of test, requires daily or every other day injections. Dr Goldstein used andractim which is suppressive of your own dht and will keep you in a perpetual state. Dr Jacobs never heard of testosterone propionate, he had been using long acting eaters. Also he was not using hcg with the protocol to keep testicular function. In the end it took anti aging knowledge, body builder knowledge and dr Jacob’s knowledge to resolve this. i could stay quiet and leave the forum, but I won’t till everyone is aware of this. You don’t have to suffer, you can reverse this and recover eventually.
I don’t care about getting credit for this, I just want it out there, doctor jacobs already agrees with my protocol. When I speak with him I will ask him to try it on some patients, it’s just a more evolved protocol than what is being used. I believe in time we will be able to use a longer acting testosterone ester. I recovered 70% inducing my own dht for a few months, if only I had aromasin then.
You’ve found something that works for you, and hopefully it will for others too. But I feel I should point out that Dr. Jacobs also used Aromasin with me (25 mg/daily) along with testosterone, and I experienced no improvement. Nothing at all like the experience you’re describing.
We experimented with dosages/frequency over the course of 9 months, but there was no range in my symptoms – I remained sexually dead the whole time, no noticeable boost at any point. As I’ve written, I did experience a complete, dramatic recovery upon my very first injection with testosterone, but no subsequent injection ever triggered any response – no matter how aggressively we combated estrogen with Aromasin. In my case, I am pretty sure the issue is not as simple as balancing T injections and Estrogen suppression. There is something else at work.
Perhaps you missed the part where I state that only testosterone propionate will work, no other form works, I also had the same experiences as you before I switched to testosterone propionate 2 months ago. Dr Jacobs is not familiar with it till I told him about it, that’s the problem, we cannot respond to cypionate or enanthate or any long acting ester. It simply aromatized more than any amount of anti estrogen can handle. I also as you did not respond to ANY form of testosterone but testosterone propionate. The fact that you responded at first confirms my theory which is a reality for me. The reason testosterone propionate is the only one that works is because it induces a lot of dht and leaves your system before it can leave havoc of tons of estrogen like every other form. No one but me has tried this form with pfs, except one user who also has reversed his condition following my protocol.
Recent quitter, that first response to test you had, you can have that every time with testosterone propionate. That’s the reason it’s not used, too much dht and this acne etc… In a normal guy they would reduce the test cypionate to dht continuously. In our case we reduce some test to dht only to aromatize the rest which shuts down our dht. Daily injections of test propionate with Aromasin daily is the only protocol that will consistently work and allow you to recover. Please read what I’m typing, if a normal version of test worked for me I would have been recovered months ago lol.
I believe forum member Vinnytv used testosterone propionate but it stopped working for him.
As it did for me till I used Aromasin, the protocol does not work without the other, Aromasin is useless without Test propionate and test propionate is useless without Aromasin. Aromasin is acting as a prosthetic DHT that does not suppress our own DHT. It will allow our system to recover without constant Estrogen dominance (which suppresses all male hormones). I know stimulating the system causes recovery as I was 70% recovered with hormones, but I kept crashing from Estrogen dominance, I did not at the time know that was what it was till I met Dr Jacobs. Had I had Aromasin back then I probably could be on a longer acting ester right now with Aromasin. I made it all this time with testosterone propionate, but the estrogen eventually came to bite me in the ass, the only drug that can control it is Aromasin, and it must be a low dose of testosterone propionate (like 10-30mg). Eventually your system will recover and start detecting low DHT and producing more, right now your system can't do shit with the Estrogen dominance. None of this seems to show up on tests either, that I am not sure why, but my focus has been to solve this, not figure out what shows up on tests or what causes it. This is the ONLY way that you can reverse PFS and allow your system to heal, and no doctor is using propionate, Dr Jacobs isn't familiar with it, it is the least aromatizing form of testosterone. Without enough 5ar to constantly reduce test to DHT we have an estrogen buildup, and the estrogen can't just be blocked by arimidex, it has to be annihilated by Aromasin (the way DHT does).
What I meant to add was I reset my system back to right when I crashed from Avodart by using Masteron and DHT, so I know that we can recover through hormones. I am responding to this protocol with full PFS reversal, but in a few months my system will recover (like before) and I should be able to use a longer acting ester. Before I found out about Aromasin I was able to control my estrogen by inducing HGH (which regulates 5AR) and was inducing DHT.
Is Aromasin an oral med or do you have to inject it ? Also I read that testosterone propionate will last for 4 days not one.
I have some testosterone propionate but I have not used it yet should I only use it if I can get Aromasin ?
Another problem I have is that testosterone propionate i have is made by merck that makes me reluctant to use it.
Wow, this is all great stuff! We need to try with some people. One thing I know 100% for sure, PfS is reversible, so many morons on this site. After 2.5 years I now have full desire and sexual function back. Would love to find the final piece that DOES exist.
Do not use any form of testosterone with out Aromasin period, otherwise you will end up with estrogen dominance that is uncontrollable. What you guys call "crashing," is merely estrogen, it is reversible and preventable, but our systems are fucked, so we will produce so much estrogen that nothing can control it unless you take arimidex every hour (like I did as an experiment). Forget about Merck, I don't get caught up in politics here, I am only interested in dragging myself out of this hell and since I have, I cannot rest until I have recovered 1 or 2 more people here so the protocol can spread. I am already working with a member here who is well known, when he is recovered people will take this seriously. I learned a lot in the past month, I couldn't figure out why I recovered before on hormones and got better and better only to crash. Now I know that I was recovering but I eventually was overtaken by estrogen, estrogen just shuts down our systems, we cannot recover when we have estrogen dominance shutting us down. So the key to allowing this injury to heal is to suppress estrogen, nothing works but Aromasin. All other AI's will block estrogen and it will come back to bite you in the ass, testosterone propionate will work really well, but you will start to feel the estrogen (which you guys call a crash). So I advise you to order Aromasin first, PM me and I will give you a good site to get it from if you do not already have one. The primary problem with this condition is estrogen dominance, I am unsure why it is not detectable, but I really don't care. I have my theories, but it doesn't matter, what matters is to create the environment for healing to occur. CDNuts was constantly using PCT protocols, his DHT protocols were counter productive and suppressive, it was the PCT's that worked, but they won't work on most of us. The only thing that works for sure is this method, it will induce 5AR on a daily basis and the Aromasin will fulfill the job DHT is not there to do (annihilating estrogen). Aromasin has its limits, 25mg a day only kills so much estrogen, so keep your testosterone propionate low, like 10-30mg a day. Eventually as your system recovers, you will be able to handle more and more, it will take about 3 months and you will make some significant recoveries. I know this from experience, I just wish I had known about Estrogen and Aromasin back then as I have had to restart the healing process. The good news is that with this protocol, I have PFS in 100% reversal. You don't have to stay on hormones forever if you use HCG every week, but I guarantee once you get on them and feel how they work, you will never want to quit.
Let me reiterate, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to use hormones without testosterone propionate and aromasin, I know, I have tried everything for months, I was able to control estrogen with various protocols, but they were not practical. Aromasin reduces estrogen without suppressing DHT and in fact Aromasin raises your own natural testosterone production, so it will help do the job of HCG as well. Aromasin is an amazing drug, unfortunately more than 25mg and you get amped up as it is a steroid. It is good to have an arsenal of AI’s just in case, Arimidex, Aromasin, Letrozole, you don’t want to go waiting 2 weeks for something to arrive. So buy everything first, you must follow this protocol exactly, do not deviate at all, no other forms of testosterone, no other AI’s.
I have the knowledge of a doctor with respect to hormones, that was how I was able to come up with this, I know what every hormone does and feels like and how to counter it. Once you get estrogen under control the misery will go away, your life will improve and you will think differently and be able to focus on test and DHT. OMG do I wish I had this knowledge 6 months ago, could have saved myself 6 fucking months of pure hell. I had been looking for a protocol to reverse this, but now I know this protocol will allow us to recover.
I never could figure out why PFS would always come back, but it is not some mysterious monster, it is science, it is a hormone called estrogen, it is controllable, it can be countered, defeated. You must understand this is estrogen and not some mysterious crash, it can be controlled so long as you are using test propionate at low doses daily and Aromasin daily.
Justquitdut can you please post your extract protocol.
You guys can’t imagine the suffering i endured going through 27 crashes in 6 months (probably more crashes than that). Doctors keep telling us we will recover, they are correct, we do recover, but what they do not know and I know (because I have the knowledge of a doctor with this stuff) is that the estrogen is too much to control. Estrogen overwhelms our system so that we cannot recover, and without stimulating the 5AR system and DHT, recovery may never occur, or may take years.
The way testosterone injections work is they inject a large dose and normal men continuously reduce test to dht with 5ar enzymes. The DHT kills estrogen, but without the DHT being constantly made and with our bodies converting most of our test to estrogen, it is a recipe for disaster. It takes a steroid like Aromasin to fix this, but steroids are suppressive, Aromasin is not.
There is no mystery here, I know exactly what is going on, 27 crashes can drive anyone mad, yes I posted a lot, but I was determined to solve this. Now I have the environment in my body to recover and there is no such thing as “crashing,” it is called Estrogen, when you understand that all falls in place. You must not fear the estrogen, but you must avoid it and have an arsenal handy.
If you follow my protocol, it will work and you will need nothing else, keep arimidex on hand, 1 every 2 hours will reverse a crash. I keep it as a safeguard, however, I have yet to “crash” with Aromasin, in other words I have yet to have Estrogen dominance on these low doses of propionate. I have felt it a couple times and took 1mg of arimidex and it went away.
As days and weeks go by your system will recover more and you will produce more 5AR and your body will start killing off estrogen with its own DHT, you will know this occurs as you will see yourself improving and responding better to testosterone.
30mg of testosterone propionate (I recommend you start at 10-20mg a day
25mg of Aromasin
(if you feel any estrogen later in the day do not be afraid to take 1mg of Arimidex every hour or 2 hours till it is gone, however you should not, but keep it on hand just in case).
This is all daily, with PFS we cannot handle any form of extended anything, we simply don’t have the 5AR enzymic activity, but the good news is it does recover if you keep the estrogen suppressed. I believe on 25mg of Aromasin daily with nothing else you might recover over the course of an extended period of time, but that is just a theory of mine. It is a balancing act and if you follow my protocol exactly it will work, I assure you all no one but me has tried it. Dr Jacobs is unfamiliar with testosterone propionate, and I have a call scheduled with him this week where I plan to go into detail about it with him. It is a body builder form of testosterone really. Knowing and understanding how your body works with PFS allows you to work around it. A crash is not some mystical or mysterious neurological thing that everyone here talks about, I know this for a FACT because I have been through 27 of them and now like clock work can reverse one within an hour with enough estrogen blockers. Dr Jacobs is on the right track, only since this is not occurring in his own body, he doesn’t understand how much estrogen is being released, and he also never heard of this form of testosterone.
It amazes me the final protocol would be so fucking simple, but that is how these things go, I do not want any credit for this, I just want to get some people here on this protocol to reverse this hell like me and recover over time. It will be a domino effect and slowly others will follow. No one should suffer this fate, this knowledge I have must get out to others, that is why I am working on another member here, once he gets on this protocol and recovers, it will legitimize this.
I would have to say start at 10mg of testosterone propionate a day for sure, my 30mg a day is to maintain my muscular physique, 10mg should be enough. See how you respond to that first, if you can handle it after 2 weeks, up your dose to 20mg a day or 15mg a day. I think though, if you feel great on that dose you should remain for a couple months and then you can increase from there. You guys don’t have my knowledge of this stuff, if you get estrogen dominance you cannot control you may freak out and stop everything, so I advise you to start minimally for that reason. My previous HRT doctor was correct to an extent, we do recover, but no doctor can imagine how much fucking estrogen we produce. After 27 crashes I no longer fear them, I reverse them, but the feelings and sensations make you terrified of taking or doing anything, but that is what estrogen does unfortunately. I am not sure if this is how women feel all the time, but it is horrid! I like Arimidex because it seems like you can take a lot of it and it won’t harm you, it will dry up your joints if you take it over a week at high doses, but with Aromasin you should not need it. This isn’t rocket science once you understand it, don’t worry.
I’m very intrigued by your theory. The estrogen dominance makes sense, as well as over-loading AI’s. However, for those pointing out that they have regular amounts of DHT, I think we most likely have down regulated 5ar2, thus DHT isn’t being used throughout the body like it should, leading to normal or high normal levels of DHT, because it isn’t being utilized in tissues. DHT upregulates 5ar2. In this theory, a much higher dose of DHT would be required to upregulate 5ar2 than we normally produce to break this crapy homeostasis we have achieved with estrogen dominance. So by driving down estrogen and not allowing it to back up, increasing testosterone and thus increasing DHT, it will eventually upregulate 5ar2, which may be the reason you noticed it took several weeks to “kick in.” Just a theory, but JQD’s theory on how to break estrogen dominance does make sense to me. I would like to hear from Dr. Jacobs himself on whether or not he agrees with this protocol though.
One last thing. With having to take Test and HcG (which you didn’t mention in your protocol), you will eventually desensitize you leydig cells, so do you see this as a permanent protocol? Or with the low doses are you hoping they won’t become desensitized?
Why do you need to inject testosterone propionate everyday if it lasts for 4 days ?
It only lasts for 24 hours, they say that about test cypionate and enanthate lasting a month, it’s utter nonsense. That is why Hrt doctors prescribe cypionate and enanthate injections weekly and not monthly. Doctors with old school knowledge like dr Jacobs (with respect to hrt) will prescribe them every 23 days. It’s just bs, propionate does not last 4 days, it’s common knowledge on all body builder forums that it is an every day (or sometimes every other day) injection. I speak first hand and can tell you it doesn’t last more than 24 hours.
It’s that constant burst of 5ar and dht that we want while keeping estrogen under control. I also want to say that those who were on testosterone and anti estrogen therapies and quit because they didn’t work. They will help you recover in time, you will just suffer with estrogen and it’s a miserable experience. This protocol is the one that allows you to recover without suffering, with a full reversal of this condition. Learn your own body and how you react, but it won’t be too much of a deviation from these doses. To be safe stay on this protocol continuously and you will see that you will start to actually recover. I forgot to mention hcg 1000iu once a week to prevent testicular shrinkage. I recommend not starting hcg till you do this protocol for a month as hcg will release a lot of estrogen and you need to be familiar with this protocol first before using hcg. Don’t worry about testicular shrinkage, hcg reverses it 100%, and this protoco is safe for long term life long use, her doctors use it but just a longer acting form of testosterone.