Final protocol 100% pfs reversal with dht therapy - lastpost

You made about half a dozen assumptions here that aren’t correct. I didn’t try to discredit your “theories”, I asked for real proof before you should be entitled to claim you found a final protocol.

I didn’t share your ideas with my doctor. I shared them with a doctor I knew which is notably different. A separate doctor suggested the use of hCG and Arimidex, which I think was something you condoned early on but you have changed your mind so much. I don’t find anything funny about that protocol, it is just a reasonably safe early-line therapy that doesn’t seem to work often.

The doctor did note you understand the basic idea of what many PFS doctors believe. Great job, I am not a troll and will give credit where it is due. The doctor was not super impressed though. It does help your case too if Dr. Jacobs is willing to prescribe testosterone propionate but like I said, you gotta verify he is actually prescribing this and it is working on real patients.

The individual with whom I shared your hypothesis does know a lot more about PFS than you do and happens to know what negative feedback is and why that could not have possibly caused PFS.

PS I think almost everybody here will know the meaning of the word augment and will realize that what I said was totally consistent with what you messaged me.

JQD, could you please address this:

Ok, thanks. That’s a shitload of AI. I think your body aromatizes testosterone at a far, far higher rate then most guys. Thanks for continuing to post.

We can only go by therapies of recovered people. That’s it. So far, you have brought absolutely jack shit to the table. While JQD is working on something that has worked for him and brought near total recovery. There is no reason for you to criticize JQD. Try the fucking therapy and stop being such a whiney bitch. This thread is for guys who are actually trialing the therapy. Not for whiney fucks who do nothing but throw stones all day. Cool?

“Proof” is JQD. “Proof” comes from the other guys who try the therapy. I’m trialing Aromasin and can now have sex without Viagra. Proof comes from anecdotal experience. Look around. Zero clinical trials exist on PFS, let alone theories. So please take your “proof” and shove it up your ass. Or try the Test P + Arimidex for yourself and post up. Otherwise, fuck off anytime now. Thanks.

That is correct my body does, and so does yours and everyone here, and anyone with PFS I have worked with, this is how to treat PFS, this is why I am able to respond to testosterone when no other PFS suffer has been able to, and this is why guys are starting to have their symptoms improve with AI's. It is a shit load of AI, but this syndrome is an extreme estrogen dominance, our 5AR has been suppressed and thus our testosterone is being aromatized causing a paradoxical cycle of estrogen dominance. 

This dosage is for my dosage of 20mg of testosterone propionate a day, with PFS if you took 20mg of testosterone propionate a day you would suffer “pfs crashes,” unless you took this much letrozole, otherwise guys would all be on testosterone. All the “crashes,” have been extreme estrogen dominance, either treat it or live with it, but the theory is that by lowering estrogen and stimulating 5AR enzymes, the body will recovery its 5AR system.
Just like when you inject testosterone into a man, his system reacts by producing less testosterone, this mechanism is protective as it is a signal that too much testosterone is being produced. When you stop testosterone your body suffers low testosterone, the recovery takes time, if you continue to inject testosterone your testicles will shrink more and more and you will produce less and less testosterone.
My theory is that Finasteride has triggered a similar mechanism in our systems, we took a drug that suppresses 5AR enzymes, and by doing so in guys like us a system was triggered that lowered our production of 5AR enzymes. In the same way a system triggers us to lower testosterone, what Frustrated did not understand was that I was drawing a parallel here between my theory and what we know about how our system responds to say testosterone for example.
This occurs with a lot of things, when the body detects too much of a hormone it regulates itself by producing less, but with 5AR enzymes, a mechanism was triggered. In nature this would occur on a small level and the body would adapt, but with finasteride, it suppressed our enzymes in such a way that our body triggered a response and lowered 5AR enzymes to adapt.
Just like when you quit Testosterone and suffer low testosterone, we quit Finasteride and are now suffering low 5AR enzymes, not damage, suppression. My theory is to induce recovery with a 5AR enzyme PCT, so far I have managed to reverse this condition 3 times via continuous stimulation of 5AR and induction of DHT (which has a 5 day half life and kills estrogen). DHT is an irreversible suicide inhibitor of estrogen, it kills estrogen.
Our brain has estrogen and 5AR enzymes and DHT in the form of neurosteroids, these mini hormones (if you will) do not show on blood tests, but affect us obviously. So far several guys have started using AI’s in doses as I recommend and improved, some have posted here, the high estrogen will not show on blood tests, but you can affect the neuroestrogen level with an AI. So my theory is that if we keep estrogen low and stimulate DHT via a fast acting quick dissipating form of testosterone (that does not stay behind to be heavily aromatized) then our system will detect low 5AR enzymes and low DHT and start to recover.
This is consistent with many stories of guys who recovered, usually via stimulating the 5AR enzymes after years and then they recover, I have fine tuned that to a more precise and efficient method to induce a quicker recovery, but most importantly so that we can recover while having our symptoms reversed. As time goes by we will respond more and more to testosterone as our body recovers more and more 5AR enzymic activity.
So while you may think I have a unique problem, I challenge you to inject testosterone and see what happens, and when you start to suffer the “Crash,” take letrozole 2.5mg and wait and see what happens in an hour or two, but the problem is, the estrogen starts to shut down our testosterone and DHT production. This occurs as when testosterone is too high, it is converted to estrogen via Aromatization, when this occurs it signals our body that there is high testosterone (too high). In our case our estrogen levels have become so high in our brain on a neurosteroidal level, that it shuts down our testosterone and DHT on a neurosteroidal level and also in our body.
These enzymes have functions, as they reduce testosterone to DHT they perform functions, and those functions are also not occurring which is resulting in symptoms that mirror their functions. I have managed to reverse this condition based on this theory, and others as well. This is why guys have suffered with this for years, no one has figured out it was neuroestrogen dominance, now all of a sudden guys are improving with AI’s following my theories, to use them as needed.
This isn’t forever, just till our system recovers.

Thanks for the defense tumble, what he doesn’t realize is his behavior has made it difficult for me to help others here, so I had to block him. He has tried to discredit me every which way, and he has failed to do so, even his doctor agreed with my theories, and even Dr Jacobs is prescribing it, it is not as though these are whacky theories, they are logical and they work. I am working with others who are in contact with me and are having the same results as me.
You are feeling better by lowering estrogen, it confirms my theories, but you will hit a wall with Aromasin, it suppresses our own DHT so that our DHT cannot recover and our 5AR system will not recover. You will never advance beyond where you are right now, I tried aromasin and it ruined my recovery and set me back to square 1. We cannot take any steroids that are similar to DHT, we must allow our body to detect low DHT and trigger to increase production of it.
Aromasin is not allowing that to occur, I recommend you try arimidex or letrozole in a low dose, but you need to inject test propionate or even better (testosterone suspension). You have to induce your DHT and stimulate your 5AR, your body will detect high testosterone, if you keep estrogen low then your body will not be shut down by estrogen, and it will continue to produce 5AR and DHT which will then kill estrogen (like Aromasin but better).
You will hit a brick wall with Aromasin, trust me man, I have tried it extensively, it can’t work with PFS, it will help you get better as it is lowering estrogen, but it suppresses all chances of your system recovering. Aromasin was designed for women with breast cancer, as a form of DHT that did not cause virilization in women. So actually, if you are going to take DHT, you might as well inject Masteron. As you take Aromasin it will lower your estrogen, but with PFS as soon as testosterone is introduced it quickly get converted to estrogen as there isn’t enough 5AR activity to reduce it to DHT (which kills estrogen).
Your best bet is to try Arimidex or letrozole and definitely get some propionate in you or testosterone suspension (even better).

Hi, Entropy, I explained why Aromasin is no good MANY times in my thread, but I just explained it again in my previous post to tumbleweeds, read that for why Aromasin is no good. Molecularly it is too similar to DHT, this is not theory, I first theorized it would be suppressive of our DHT with this condition, I told Dr Jacobs my concerns, but he did not know. So I gave it a shot, it brought me back to when I first got PFS, shut down all my DHT gains.
Any guy with PFS I have spoken to has gone no where on Aromasin, in normal guys they are at a steady state of DHT production. We are at a lower steady state due to finasteride suppressing our 5AR system and causing our system to respond by lowering 5AR enzymes (thinking there is too much). When we stopped finasteride we “Crashed,” which was a neuroestrogen dominance and a total estrogen dominance. Our body did not have enough 5AR to reduce test to DHT and it started aromatizing it into estrogen and we suffered an estrogen dominance attack (more accurately).
Arimidex causes a rebound effect with guys who have PFS, now, if our system comes along enough, we will be able to handle it. However, I started from scratch after DHT use and Aromasin, and I would take Arimidex and it would lower estrogen and I would respond to testosterone and reduce it to DHT and then an hour later estrogen would rebound and I would have to repeat the process. This is not just me, Newbie who posted here has mentioned he is needing more and more Arimidex.
I spoke to Moonman who also has had this problem, he has never linked estrogen to PFS the way I have, but he has known that he had a problem with estrogen, and he was unable to ever control it except with a hormone called pregnenolone (which is a supplement I am on). So, all I can tell you is in multiple accounts we see the same thing, even with the 2 guys I am working with, Patient X1 and X2, same situation, they take arimidex, feel better, then estrogen rebounds and they need more.
It is not practical to take that much arimidex, so Letrozole works better, ideally it would be nice to get by on just 2.5mg a day, and that is all you should take. As well as 10mg of propionate a day (till we all get testosterone suspension which will be easier to deal with). The reason testosterone has never worked for PFS guys is due to the ester attached to it, cypionate has a 7-10 day extended release ester, the testosterone releases slowly, as our low 5AR runs out the rest of it get aromatized and we suffer a huge estrogen attack for days (which guys call a crash).
This can be reversed with ridiculous amounts of AI, I reversed it completely with Masteron (acting as a super potent AI) and it was also replacing my low DHT and it enhanced my sex drive to sickly levels and my muscles all got hard and huge. I was able to respond to any ester of testosterone. The only problem was my estrogen started spiking, it could not touch my muscles or dick or libido, but it did make me experience PFS emotional crash like symptoms, so I figured out AI’s would reverse it.
This is because Masteron is not actual DHT, it is similar, similar enough to make our sex drive crazy. Though, if there were a depo form of say Aromasin, it would do the same thing probably, just not as intense. The problem is if we take a long acting ester of testosterone, we need a long acting injectable AI to block all the estrogen released due to our low 5AR. Propionate has only a 24 hour ester (which is still bad but at least manageable). If we were using testosterone suspension, it would all quickly convert to DHT and leave very little behind to aromatize as it has a 3 hour half life.
THE CURE for PFS (one of them) is Testosterone suspension, it will allow us to respond to testosterone as it acts like our own, on an AI we will be able to get by. The only reason I need so much Letro is because of the 24 hour ester propionate is attached to, so that’s 24 hours of testosterone slow release my low 5ar cannot reduce to test and starts aromatizing. I take an AI to block that action and give my body the ability to produce more 5AR and stimulate more DHT, the more that DHT builds up the lower our estrogen will get. DHT is an irreversible suicide inhibitor of estrogen (which is what Aromasin was modeled after).
What I am doing is taking recovery and speeding it up, it is a 5AR PCT, the parallel is to the other system of the negative feedback loop that occurs from injecting testosterone etc… It is just a parallel that that troll frustrated could not understand as he is obviously an adderall abuser or just trolls for fun, who knows. So what I can tell you is what I know and have experienced, the more test we inject, the more AI we need, so the key is to keep test low and quickly dissipating and fast converting to DHT.
Proviron did kill estrogen like DHT, but it is too weak to handle testosterone injections, and if you take it without injecting testosterone you will lower your own testosterone and DHT and eventually suffer estrogen dominance (even on a neurosteroidal level). A depo injection of actual DHT or synthesized would allow us to respond to testosterone without the need of an AI, like an injectable form of Proviron. Masteron as I explained will allow response to long acting test, but our DHT will suppress and we will have to control estrogen, in this case the estrogen will only affect us emotionally and water retention as well, but it is horrible, I was horny as hell during a PFS crash with huge muscles lol. I was jerking off a zillion times and “crashing!” So I figured out it was estrogen and started lowering my estrogen and was perfect, but then I realized all that was going on.
Now I am here, off Masteron and DHT, and attempting to restart my 5AR, I have designed this protocol to allow my system to respond to testosterone, have a sex drive, muscles, everything, normal mood, and simultaneously recover from PFS. It is to have my cake and eat it too, I recovered to 90% 3 times before via this type of stimulation. I just did not know this was estrogen dominance, so when I suffered these crashes I gave up and hit DHT.
So I can tell you what I know, and this is it, the reason we rebound from arimidex is because in a normal guy they have a normal functioning 5AR system that reduces test to DHT and the DHT kills the estrogen. So taking arimidex lowered estrogen, the pill was designed for people with normal 5AR systems, our system is suppressed, we need a longer acting AI. There will be rebound with Letrozole yes, but the hope is that while we are on it and constantly stimulating our 5AR system and inducing DHT that as we recover we will have more DHT and need less letrozole.
This recovery takes a long fucking time, months, and it is slow, but in 3 weeks off of DHT (starting from square one), I have recovered a lot of 5AR activity and DHT production. I am going to see how far I come in 3 months, if it is enough to make me happy, I will keep going. I know my body recovered 3 times almost completely in every way doing this, there is no explanation other than my system was restoring 5AR activity and then I got estrogen dominant and crashed. Now, I would have probably been fully recovered by now if I had known it was estrogen, I was using HGH as an anti-estrogen (but didn’t know it). HGH stopped these “Crashes,” by stimulating 5AR and reducing test to DHT which would then kill estrogen.
So now I am recreating the situation, knowing now what I did not know them, that my system was recovering, that the attacks were estrogen and controllable and reversible. I agree this is a lot of letrozole, but going on DHT (and Aromasin) caused my gains to go back to square 1 when I first crashed from Avodart. So if I had known this right before I started DHT, I probably would have been able to get by with just arimidex 1mg a day or letrozole just 2.5mg a day (on a long acting testosterone ester by the way, as my system recovered).
So I cannot ignore all of this before committing to longterm or life long DHT (who knows), there have been a multitude of recovery stories all following the same patterns. If there were never recoveries ok, but there have been a lot, many that others have shown me here that are not posted in recovery sections. There are stories of guys recovering 5AR activity and they always follow constant stimulation of 5AR. Legendary for example, he went to his endo and went on Clomid and induced 5AR and went on letrozole 2.5mg a day. Now Letrozole 2.5mg a day is a lot for a guy, even body builders use that once a week or twice a week.
It is hardly unsafe though, Letrozole was studied in up to 10mg doses a day and up to 30mg doses a day were well tolerated. So this is hardly dangerous, so I hope this explains it, it is all relative. If you are operating off of very low testosterone then you won’t have that much estrogen and can get by on low doses of Arimidex.
If you are inducing testosterone or injecting testosterone, you need to match that constant release of testosterone with a constant release of AI (since we are not producing enough DHT). You take Arimidex, it kicks in, it blocks estrogen, and then after an hour our system produces more estrogen as our suppressed 5AR system cannot reduce it to DHT and we aromatize it. If taking low doses of AI’s were enough, people would have reversed this by now, the reason I got in trouble in the first place was by taking Avodart without a care, and the reason I reversed this was because I took AI’s without a care.
The hell if I was going to live with this fucking condition long term, I was suicidal, so I didn’t care, I injected and took whatever I could to reverse this. I did not just do it without knowing what I was doing, I was following a method of inducing DHT, as I evolved around this, I learned from experience and theory became reality.

look at it this way

----------------testosterone-------------------------------
+++5ar enzymes+++ + + + +
====DHT== = = = = = = =
Estrogen**********************************************
Arimidex () Arimidex () ect ect
Masteron ===================================
Letrozole 000 Letrozole 000 Letrozole 000

I hope this makes sense to you now

UPDATE!!: My testosterone Suspension is on the way, just got notice it was shipped, they say give it 14-21 days, geesh, with the holiday shipping, I probably won’t get it for a month, but maybe I will be lucky. I am so excited as this is the final link in the chain. Suspension will allow me to get by with a smaller dose of AI and induce more 5AR and my system will recover quicker.
I am posting all of this, as even if my theories are not accepted and not enough people do this, and for some reason this information doesn’t get where it needs to go, this thread will exist. This will encompass how to reverse PFS and induce recovery with the most efficient tools, and explain what PFS is, and also how to reverse it with DHT replacement therapy as a NUCLEAR OPTION (if nothing else works).
Also, I have been researching recoveries from steroid cycles (specifically DHT steroid cycles), and it is said to take SEVERAL MONTHS to recover with a PCT, so a lot of guys here I notice have tried things for a week or two or a month or two. Recovery from this will take several months, it is very slow, you have to stay on the protocol and just allow your body to recover.
If you don’t do a 5 alpha reductase post cycle therapy protocol, it is difficult to recover from this condition. I don’t see what any of you have to lose, hell my symptoms are reversing, they have in the past, people are posting that they are feeling better and having improved symptoms. If everyone gets on this protocol, we all could reverse this in a year. It is not like you I am telling you to eat dog shit either, go to Dr Jacobs and go on this protocol.
The more people who go to Dr Jacobs and go on this protocol, the more he can study it and help give us more data as well.

JQD, I just seen a male specialist doctor here in Australia who again doesn’t seem to think this condition is valid at the neuro steroid level…I emailed him a post of yours hoping he would be open minded to treatment that was being prescribed by dr Jacobs. I said my 5AR has been compromised not doing its job and he said it is doing its job as my previous test revealed I have DHT being converted!
Oh well when I get my tests back I am going to do an appointment with Dr Jacobs and get this protocol from him then. The more people see him the better. I really hope this works or dr Jacobs can somehow prescribe masteron so it will be in endless supply with a proper prescription.

I had bad diarrhea and vomiting, that was what made me sure about a food intox.

As for myself, I don’t understand why my DHT was through the roof less than two years after quitting fin. Too much DHT felt like not a good thing either.

[/quote]
Well my testosterone is borderline low but last year I trained hard for 6 months roughly and had a re test and my testosterone was borderline high. No difference in libido. I could get and maintain an erection but had no desire to do so and when I did it was a very mild experience.

I honestly can’t remember all my readings. It’s hard getting extensive testing here and I gave up in the end. My endo was shit. Despite having osteopenia in both femoral necks and borderline low test they just refused to put me on testosterone. Regardless, had they have done so they would never of prescribed an AI concomitant which in my understanding is in most cases essential. Arimidex was only the other day used on a male for the first time under the NHS in this country.

I’ve just built a gym in my house so I have time to train, I build muscle very easily so my test seems to shoot right up. I intend to train for 3 months and try proviron once again. perhaps 12.5mg per day to begin with and maybe cycle it or something and pray not to get shut down.

Good thread btw

justquitdut

I was able to purchase letro, but I got it in tablet form. Is that okey? Because I have read that most get it in liquid form in a PCT.

Deadballs, can you tell me more about:

" Arimidex was only the other day used on a male for the first time under the NHS in this country"

I’m considering asking for an AI myself. Have a doc’s appointment to ask on Friday.

ok boys with all due respect I am so fucking confused about this.
I really want this to be THE miracle but it seems everybody is going back and forth and slightly changing what they are saying every post.
I read and keep up on this every day so give me a little credit.
All I got so far is 10MG TEST PROP.
then ppl are saying either armidex or letrzole (speeling) is too dangerous or it sucks n does nothing.
Others are saying take masteron with it.
Seriously boys what in the fuck! Im not trying to be a dick at all just trying to grasp this because I want it to work.

Now I have to worry about my natural T NOT coming back after I take PROP? Really?
My natural t levels are fine even off the charts, yet I don’t feel like I have off the chart T levels.
I can barley get Jacobs by email, yes I know hes busy and im not the only patient he has but still.
i’m just fucking lost here.

Don’t make it tougher than it is.

Letrozole 2.5mg per day.
Test Prop (since you already have it) 10mg per day to start.

You will need to be in tune with your estrogen levels. Take more or less Letrozole as you see fit. You are taking testosterone so over time it will shut your balls down, but in the future you can get them to come back online.

Hey I think we’re in pretty much the same boat. My results are pretty much fine and JustQuit describes it as “first stage PFS”.

I’m also scared of dabbling with testosterone in case I shut down my own production, plus I doubt given my (supposedly) normal figures that my doctor would even prescribe it.

If your natural T is high you might just try the AI by itself to see if you get a benefit. Legendary was just using Let by itself after his clomid restart and it was working for him. His Endo last told him to crush is E2 to 0 with Let then start on DIM for maintenance. He was getting a boost in T from the Let by itself.

Here is my understanding at this point…

10mg Test Prop per day or every other day depending on how you feel.

(armidex or letrzole), You many need more dex if you go that route. If you take Let you will likely need less.

Do not take Masteron unless this protocol fails you. Masteron is only to be added down the line.

HCG could be used to keep up your own production if your using Test Prop.

ok but how do I keep “in tune” with my E2 levels…seems tough to gauge