Halleluja, another reversal story, how many more do you all need to believe!? Visionquest, testosterone wonāt make you infertile, HCG will restore you (and is by the way a fertility drug). The testosterone is not necessarily a forever thing, it is just to stimulate the 5 AR system into recovery. You can always use HCG after and have a baby, but research that yourself to be clear, you could also have your sperm frozen now, and then when you want to have a baby, you can use your sperm, that way you donāt have to worry.
You might want to try letrozole 2.5mg a day if arimidex is not good enough, try taking more arimidex more frequently and see if you feel better, if you do then you might want to consider letrozole. There are hormones called āneurosteroids,ā they do not show up on blood tests, but hormones and anti-androgens affect them. This is a form of neuroestrogen dominance, it is occurring with the hormones in your brain that do not show in tests, that is what all this is.
Good job, spread the word, if everyone can learn what this really is, we can all be putting our minds to finding the best way to approach this rather than debating what the cause is.
Oh, you haven't read my whole thread, I am all for Masteron, but let me explain! First of all, brilliant for you to notice this, I am so glad people are catching onto my theories, so the word will spread to the right people and we can end this once and for all. I believe this is suppressed 5ar (like suppressed testosterone), I was able to get my system to start to recover a few times on testosterone and small doses of arimidex, and my own HGH (i was stimulating). I would keep getting Estrogen dominance attacks (aka pfs crashes), so I started proviron, it worked great, then I would need more the next day and more the following day. I couldn't figure out why, then I was needing like 20 provirons a day to keep myself responding to testosterone (I was on testosterone enanthate at the time, a long acting ester but less estrogenic than cypionate).
So I decided to switch to Masteron, all of a sudden within 3 weeks my body was responding to testosterone just like before PFS, it was blocking estrogen and replacing DHT, my sex drive was sick, I think it was more potent than before I had PFS on testosterone. That's what told me this wasn't damage, and that I could manipulate this with hormones, my dick initially was curved and smaller head and all that, it all REVERSED on masteron after a few weeks.
However, my estrogen started to rise, I couldn't figure out why till I researched it and found that Masteron was not DHT but a close design. So it was acting as a POTENT AI that was releasing a steady stream of masteron to match the testosterone injection (like my own DHT) and that was blocking the estrogen, so my muscles and sex drive came back 150%. However, blocking and killing are two different things, so I concluded a better form of DHT that was actually DHT would kill estrogen and replace DHT (and thus cure use) so we could use testosterone with DHT injections. It would have to be a steroid injection, nothing else is strong enough, I had wanted to try Primobolan, as Proviron killed estrogen, but masteron did not. I would have needed an injectable form of Proviron, that is called Mesterolone, either that or Primobolan.
Before I went further down that road I had come up with all these theories and they were all connecting the dots, when I was on DHT it suppressed my own DHT to nothing, so that when I quit it was like after my first estrogen attack (aka pfs crash). I quit as I didn't know these "crashes" were estrogen, I figured it out on Masteron. So if I recovered 3 times before only to suffer an estrogen attack (aka pfs crash), what if with my new knowledge I did the same thing, but even more efficiently and what would happen?? Would my system recover? I could not go on on DHT for the rest of my life (or for however long) without knowing if I could recover! So I quit it all, learned a lot, and Masteron would not be my choice, I would pick Primobolan or something like that, an injectable form of DHT.
After quitting DHT I started stimulating my 5AR with propionate and using letrozole to control estrogen, I required too much arimidex to control this, I would need more and more due to estrogen rebound. Arimidex would be helpful maybe if my DHT had not been shut down by Masteron and all the DHT use, so I am letting my DHT recover and stimulating it. It has only been 2.5 weeks and my system is becoming more and more responsive to test propionate (producing more and more 5AR and DHT). I am functional and normal on this protocol, but before I had PFS I would be sickly horny and HUGE on this protocol due to my genetics. So as I recover my muscles get bigger, it really is a good benchmark for me, something I can see real clearly.
So I am going to give this 3 months, and see what happens, if I recover, I recover, if I stay at this state, I will decide if I want to go on DHT, but I am already improving, and I did before. The fear I had with DHT is that doctor's don't prescribe it, I would be dependent on something I had to buy online overseas or from local guys I know here that sell hormones on the black market. If Dr Jacobs prescribed it or something, I would feel more comfortable. However, I now know this condition can be fully reversed in anyone using injectable DHT, completely reversed (and better). Something I will point out, on Masteron, my skin was not oily, I did not lose any hair, yet I was responding to testosterone enanthate!!!
Why was I not losing hair? Why was I not breaking out? It was obviously suppressing my 5AR system, what would need to be to signal the 5AR system to recover? High testosterone, low estrogen and low DHT, so I am keeping myself at my normal low DHT (on a neurosteroidal level which is undetectable in tests). The idea is so that my system will signal low DHT and low 5AR and start compensating by producing more 5AR and more DHT, I think DHT replacement should be a last resort if this doesn't work. If it turns out that some people require that, I can tell you it works, I was completely shut down and it worked, but I think we can all restore our 5AR activity, I really do, it happened to me 3 times and is happening now slowly.
However, I like having multiple plans and multiple backup plans, if one thing fails, I have another, I am not sitting around with this shit for long, I already have it by the balls and am managing it. I am in control of PFS, it is not in control of me, I have decoded it's secrets. If I do not fully recover and become as responsive as I want, then I will make a decision to use my own DHT or synthetic, if some here need DHT, perhaps enough people would be able to convince Dr Jacobs to somehow be able to prescribe synthetic DHT, or some doctor (if that is even possible in the USA). We would have to think long term for us or those specific people, so I am factoring all of this in my equations.
I think that is what makes me able to wait and recover, knowing that I need only reach for my masteron and turn myself into a beast, I am good now, all of you would kill to be where I am, but I am not where I want to be yet. So all of you will respond as I did/do, we are already seeing that with a few posts already, I have already heard from at least 10 guys who improved with anti estrogens. Now, the key here is using them AS NEEDED, as you feel estrogen, you take too much it won't work as you will lower your estrogen too much.
I am doing this all on my own, if any of you want to help out and join this research project, it would only help us all get better quicker. If a non responsive guy would like to try the DHT full reversal protocol, let me know, you can always go on the 5AR PCT protocol I devised (after). However, ethically, I recommend everyone to do this first and try to restart your system, but make no mistake, enough DHT (injected) and full reversal. It would be interesting to see how someone does on Primobolan and testosterone (you can take enanthate if you use an injectable DHT as it is enough to compensate for a long acting ester). Anyway, I am giving this about 3 months (maybe more) before I make my ultimate decision.
Let me BE CLEAR, I do not believe by any means I will have to go on DHT, I believe I will recover, I have already a few times.. I am stoned so sorry if this message is unclear.
I forgot to add, with Masteron, or an injectable form of DHT, you DO NOT need propionate or suspension, with Masteron injections I was responding as normal to regular once a week enanthate injections, but my estrogen soured. So, donāt think I am not tempted to grab that bottle every day, but I know I will recover. Also, if you got a real DHT injection, you would not need an AI, it would kill estrogen, I wonder if Primobolan does that, I will have to research that. I know Proviron definitely kills estrogen like DHT, so an injectable form such injectable mesterolone would be an easy fix to PFS. One injection of testosterone long acting enanthate, and one injection of mesterolone long acting, and you would not need any AI, nothing, and you would be 150% reversed of this condition, THIS IS A FACT, I have already done it. However, letās all try to restart our systems, could be that within a year everyone here wonāt need anything but testosterone ( and maybe some will need nothing), before we make the decision to be on DHT Long term).
Again, I am stoned, so sorry if this is a messā¦
I am getting all kinds of messages from guys using all sorts of variations of strategies to combat this estrogen dominance syndrome, now that the word is out, the numbers are increasing. Email after email, even though some guys are using Proviron (which I have said is suppressive), This guy hasnāt read this far in my research, but he came up with this protocol based on my early research and protocols.
One thing remains, it is always estrogen, time and time again, at what point does this become accepted as fact? So we can move forward with this condition. I have figured this all out, most importantly, the mysterious ācrashes,ā and the way we feel, everyone can get this under control, one way or another. Even this guy is using a combo of one of my earlier protocols, itās better than nothing, just proves my theories.
DHEA: I left out an important note, on testosterone, DHEA I have found to always stimulate 5AR and start the reduction of test to DHT. When I first got PFS and did not know much, DHEA was the only thing I found to get my body to respond to testosterone, it wouldnāt last long, and it took higher doses, but that was my very first PFS protocol. Now after knowing all that I know, this information is rather valuable, I started taking DHEA 50mg 2X a day to help stimulate 5AR. It definitely does, but remember, you have to have testosterone in you for it to reduce, and your estrogen has to be low enough. DHEA also converts to estrogen as well, so DHEA with testosterone and an AI might surprise you guys. So moonman actually told me about another form of DHEA that is less estrogenic (I already ordered it and it is on the way) it is called 7-keto-dhea
DHEA has been so potent at stimulating 5AR, that I quit taking it as I felt it was masking my recovery, I wouldnāt know if I was getting better or the DHEA was just stimulating 5AR. So now knowing what I know I feel it is a good thing to take, though I will prob switch to the 7-keto-dhea if it works the same and is less estrogenic.
Why donāt you explain to everybody how inhibiting 5-AR can trick the body into thinking it is producing TOO MUCH of the enzyme?
He said he is far from recovered and at this point he is only using arimidex, a drug which you advise against. Your disclaimer that you are stoned can probably explain this though. You shouldnāt try to take credit for a non-recovery that was not on your āprotocolā.
Frustrated, are you that DULL and your thinking so confined? I did not say ārecovered,ā I said āreversed,ā I suggested Arimidex in my earlier protocols, I know you like to pretend you are extremely smart, but the fact is your intellect is lacking, you cannot grasp simple concepts. In his email he says he is getting help because of me (which is why he emailed me), and he emailed me this in a separate private email as well. People who actually have brains and can think rather than can only follow exact āprotocolsā (like yourself) are getting help. A new protocol does not negate an old one, these are all following a concept that I will not waste my time explaining to you (yet again) as most can understand things (like this guy) and you just canāt. He will eventually need to migrate to my current protocols when he reads through the thread and based on his own experience, he is operating off of older knowledge that doesnāt stop working because new data comes out. This also substantiates that this is neuroestrogen dominance as his estrogen shows up fine in tests, and yet anti estrogens help him.
Look, I know you like to type and act like a big boy and criticize everyone and everything, but perhaps you are useful as an english tutor, or maybe someone I could hire to spell check my emails (when my iPhone or laptop spell check fails), otherwise debating you is like debating my gardener or cleaning lady. Your mind is just not up to par, so I am no longer responding to your puerile and NASTY messages, you are just a miserable person and getting on my nerves.
I sympathize with people who have low intellect (like yourself), but when they are just all around nasty and rude, I donāt have the patience, so this will probably be my last acknowledgement of your posts. Why donāt you find another thread to attack? You arenāt making sense and you are just annoying everyone and embarrassing yourself. It is clear you need an exact instruction manual to do anything, I advise you to go to one of your precious doctors and have them help you and leave us alone here. NOTHING you say is ever enlightening, you are just constantly giving unwanted advice based on the inability to understand pretty much ANYTHING I say. Oh and by the way, I forgot to add in the private email to you about that Italian study you like to throw around to prove there are epigenetic changes, the researchers concluded that it was āAndrogen Deprivationā as the likely cause of those changes. Suppressed 5ar and thus low dht (even on a neurosteroidal level) would cause that.
Stoned and half asleep I am 100000X more intelligent than you buddy, when you run out of things to attack, you resort to spell checking my words and grammar, it is sad really, I designate you irrelevant from this day forth and I will not even be reading your posts. Your behavior is inexcusable and I have had enough of it. Spare me your advice in any matters, it is all unwanted, I would sooner listen to my cats than you. Since your doctor is so brilliant and ahead of me, it is curious why you bother to read this thread, your brilliant doctor should be all you need, after all, you did say he knows more about PFS and how to treat it than I do, looks like he is doing a great job on you!
For the same reason injecting testosterone can trick the body into thinking it is producing too much testosterone.
Hey JQD if youād like to give him my email, go ahead. Iāll give him my two bottles of Aromasin, freeā¦I know you advise against Aromasin, but Iām not going to use them since reading the latest evolution of your protocol. When I get back I want to do your protocol EXACTLY.
Hey PerfectGent, ignore Frustrated, I donāt advise against it, I think you should start with it and then evolve to letro if you need to, yes we will spend money on different drugs till we find the right combo for each of us. Who knows Perfect, Arimidex may be all you need, Frustrated often misquotes me, he is a miserable person who just likes to come on here and post cynical comments and give out obvious and unwanted advice.
That is very nice of you to offer to do that, I recommend you keep the Aromasin, you never know what the future will hold, I keep everything here in stock. For a long time I thought Letrozole was useless, I had tried it several times with side effects and not enough success. Later I revisited it and realized it was useful, so hold onto the Aromasin, who knows what we will figure out as time goes by.
As more and more people join our cause, more ideas will come forward and more methodology, some of those may incorporate all of these things, who knows. I donāt think so, but you already paid for it, wonāt hurt to keep it. Hope you are doing well my friend!
This is the complete opposite actually. Artificially injecting testosterone understandably down regulates endogenous testosterone production because of NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. This is a common mechanism for self regulating hormones in the endocrine system.
Artificially inhibiting 5ar does not trigger negative feedback because the level is at a cyclical trough. It is not the same mechanism.
Donāt resort to personal attacks because you canāt answer my questions accurately. It reflects poorly on your character and credibility.
JQD, based on your theory, I am going to run the following protocol. this will be my strategy to stimulate the 5ar system while keeping estrogen down. my first real crash was last December. since then my total testosterone has fluctuated between 750ās to in the 900ās. Iām already highly muscular and eat very well. I have tried tons of natural protocols and nothing has gotten me anywhere close to my pre-fin baseline. I still have no libido what so ever. and I used to be out of my mind horny all the timeā¦even for fat chicks 
So I have test prop already. I have tons of letro on hand but am scared to use it in the doses I suspect I would need to take it. I fear letro cause it has been long referred to in the bodybuilding community as the most harsh AI and known to quickly kill your libido. I dont need that.
so Hereās what Iām going to do, alternating between test Cycles and PCT cycles
test prop 10mg/ed for weeks 1-4(I might do 20mg eod if I can control the e2)
adex (dosed as needed)
after 4 weeks I will run a PCT protocol for 2-4 weeks:
clomid 100mg per day for first 10 days then 2-3 weeks at 50mg per day or tamoxifan 20mg, 20mg, 10 mg, 10mg(weeks 1-4)
tribulus 1000-2000mg/day wks 1-4
DHEA 25mg per day weeks 1-4
adex as needed throughout PCT
my reasoning behind this protocol is to cycle it like that of a bodybuilder not wanting to run HCG and concerned about complete shutdown of HPTA. many bodybuilders run very short cycles at higher doses due to not wanting to be on long enough to completely shut down and needing HCG to restart their HPTA.
So my plan is to keep running the above protocol hoping for a quick reversal and eventually a full recovery to where I can get off all the above drugs and return to who I was naturally pre-fin.
So as you can see by cycling Test and PCT as I plan to do above I am kinda of using some of cdnuts strategy.
Also, I got alot of anavar from a bodybuilder friend. anavar is a dht derivative much like primobolin. itās known for itās lean hard gains and very good for strength gains. JQD, do you feel any DHT derivative would be a mistake to run?
cdnuts was running androhard which is esentially the same compound t-bol. Tbol= var =dbol.
anyway, I wonder if his use of a dht helped stimulate his 5ar for the good and then with constart upstart of his HPTA through PCT he was able to finally turn the corner and reset himself to baseline?
That was meant to say tbol = anavar+dbol
āArtificially inhibiting 5ar does not trigger negative feedback?ā Then how do you explain PFS?? From the same people you got your information came that DHT is useless and finasteride is safe, and I have also read studies that Avodart does not inhibit muscle growth on testosterone. Nevertheless it is used in male to female transsexuals in in such cases it does (in another study that was not funded by pharm companies).
I have already proven these theories to be true on myself and others, the 5AR system recovers the same way and suppresses the same way. I am not interested in debating your biology schoolbooks, you bore me, I have migrated into advanced theoretical neuroendocrinology, I left your schoolbooks behind after Finasteride and Avodart suppressed MY 5 ar system and your precious doctors could not explain why, and their treatments were counter productive to recovery.
Oh, now you criticize my personal attacks? You are one long unending personal attack.
Iām waiting for my labs results, but my Doc thought unuseful to test Total testosterone, just Bioavailable T. I hadnāt read your posts yet about dosing AIs with or without testo stimulation according to total T, had I known it, I would have insisted to get it done.
Do you think Bioavailable T can give a good picture about the dose of AI we have to take?
Waiting for my last results, here is my bio a. test evolution: (I quit Fin in April 2009)
Jan 2011: 1,33ng/mL
Nov 2011:1,43ng/mL (after HCG shot(s)) balls didnāt grow larger by the least.
March 2013:1,36ng/mL
Dec 2013:0,90ng/mL (after a major crash in November, officially due to food intox, but possibly adrenal crisis triggered by stress and bad hormones; anxiety, panic attacks, and so on and great weakness, It is a whole lot better in that department today).
I had very low blood count too, particluarly rbc, on the border of anemia, Iām waiting to see where I am now.
Very good, you have learned my theories and are working off of them, this is the stuff I have been wanting to see, this is what Frustrated is incapable of doing, he cannot conceptualize or understand anything, he can only follow "protocols" that are written for him. So you have used your brain and have come up with a brilliant protocol. As for DHT, I used it enough times to conclude it is either a life long thing or not, it totally suppressed my own DHT back to square one, I am still recovering from it.
I am all for experimentation, but remember CDNUTS had this for 4 years, that is 4 years for his system to recover, he may have just triggered it with all the 5ar induction. I recommend you try this without the DHT, you will be disappointed in the outcome, see what happens without it first, if you get no results, you can always try with it. What worried me was with Masteron I had full reversal of sexual and muscular effects, full response to long acting esters of testosterone, but 5AR activity was suppressed, no hairloss, no oily skin, and estrogen went out of control (emotional effects).
A better form of DHT would have killed estrogen, but I think still 5AR would remain suppressed, as a result the functions of 5AR would not be performed, so suppressing it seems counter productive, but I am all for experimentation. I think the reason that CDNUTS protocol has not worked for anyone is due to the DHT and its suppressive properties. If you were just stimulating 5AR and your own DHT, I think the results for everyone would be different.Hey JQD,
Whatās your current protocol now? Why do you no longer recommend Arimidex?
Don't listen to Frustrated, he is a liar, I never said that, actually I think starting with arimidex is a good idea to get a feel for what your estrogen is and what it means to lower it and how much better you feel. Letrozole is strong, only use it if you don't respond to arimidex, or if you need more. I am currently on 20mg of propionate daily, I take letrozole 2.5mg 1-3x a day. I am on other supplements and stuff which I will post later.
Keep in mind my goals are bigger muscles, so Iām trying to maximize my test, I am also waiting on testosterone suspension, when it arrives I will immediately switch to it and I doubt Iāll look back. On suspension I wonāt need as much AI. I donāt recommend anyone follow my protocol that I myself am on, split whatever I do in half, I overdo things as I am hardcore and have more intense goals than you guys.
Thatās how I got in this mess to begin with pharmacological egocentricity, I thought I could chemically make myself perfect, I had been studying 5ar before I got pfs. If I had known there was a way to permanently damage 5ar or suppress it long term, I still would have done this as that was my goal, I just didnāt realize the other consequences.
I was trying to stop my oily skin on testosterone, that is why I was able to resolve this quicker than others.
your plan sounds good stomper!
is tamoxifen as good as clomid? because i only get tamoxifen.
iĀ“ve heard clomid has more side effects, but maybe stronger? also liver toxic?
I have developed a new name for this syndrome involving estrogen, a neuroestrogen dominance paradox