You have to get your t up before. Your t needs to be on the high end, not just within range. I didnât inject t. I got my body to naturally create more of it via Clomid. I would take Clomid for a few weeks before starting letro.
Newbie, is clomid safer than Testosterone gel or injections?
And would you say this:
Testosterone 594 ng/dL
SHBG 19 nmol/L
Free Testosterone 169.9 pg/mL
Is low enough to warrant such action? Iâm carefully considering my options.
That is pretty good t levels. Certainly not low.
An AI by itself will stimulate t increase. Estrogen is highly suppresive so when it is inhibited t spikes.
I think the point theory is is that our issues may be due to an increased sensitivity to e rather than a lack of t.
An AI will increae t as well as reducing e so should take care of both issues.
will dht therapy make my jaw bigger again too? i have lost significant amount of bone on the jaw and chin. take it as a fact if you have doubt. im competent enough to know what happened to my face.
i guess it might be from high estrogen too.
So youâd recommend an AI rather than testosterone gel or injections? I asked about this on the testosterone subreddit and a guy said:
Your testosterone levels look solid. Total T is ok, but your free T (the important one) is fantastic. Close to the top of the range (assuming you used a Quest lab?)
I would STRONGLY recommend not messing with your endocrine system by using testosterone. Exogenous T will shut down your bodyâs natural production, so youâd be relying on TRT for the rest of your life. Even with TRT, there isnât much room for improvement, as your free T is already very good.
Yes. He s correct. Donât use trt, it ll shut you down and your levels are good.
The inference from this theory and based on legendaryâs endoâs hypothesis is that we may be highly sensitive to e. Due to some mutation. All total speculation obviously but plenty of dudes have responded (sometimes temporarily) to AI.
The AI won t shut you down. Intact it will stimulate an increase in t as well as reducing your e levels.
Hello,
My tests:
P-SHBG 17 nmol/L range 10-80
P-Tesosteron 7.3 nmol/L range 8.0-30
P-Lutropin (LH) 5.1 IE/L range 1.7-8.6
P-Progesteron 3.1 nmol/L range 0.7-4.3
P-Testo/SHBG quota 0.43 range 0.3-1.1
I need your help. You seem to know what you are talking about OP. My test is still low, but the doctors said that my last testo levels the last test, 6 months ago was around 11 nmol/L (very low still for my age).
What should I do? I have tried nolvadex 20 mg for a month, didnt work. Should I buy Letro and try aswell?
I have posted in member stories and it should be approved soon. I am willing to try anything at this point.
JustQuitDut, I find it interesting that you mention the problem of not be able to take deep breaths. A year ago I started to get this, air hunger, but I thought this was because of asthma. I have difficulty taking deep breaths all the time now, it never satisfies the need that wants me to take a deep breath, so to speak.
Hi friends, I have a busy day today so will respond tonight, finbssteride, itâs nice seeing you so civil these days. Thatâs close enough, to simplify, I could never understand how finasteride could damage us, it didnât, it suppressed our 5ar like testosterone suppresses our testosterone. however, a feedback loop started where there is not enough 5ar to reduce test to DHT, guys with surging testosterone would likely recover easier, people who lived with this for 10 years had no natural test levels good enough and didnât control eatrogen.
Estrogen control like (Letro) is like a bandage just to get your system to recover, then we boost 5ar and DHT with a quick acting short ester testosterone. With compromised 5ar we cannot reduce any long acting test so we aromatize it and âcrash,â or suffer an estrogen dominance attack on a neurosteroidal level. This is all occurring on a neurosteroidal level which is why drugs and hormones affect it, but it doesnât show in tests.
Letrozole will not require more as time goes by, it will actually require less, I had no idea how effective it was. Donât get caught up with high doses, our bodies are acting like body builders on mega steroids, we need letrozole to feel normal. Arimidex will end up requiring higher and more doses in some, letrozole will suck the estrogen out of your brain and fat cells. Eventually by stimulating 5ar and dht via exogenous test (could also try testosterone gels too), our system will recover.
I do have a nuclear option implementing dht replacement in the form of masteron, that I will reserve for any non responders if that even exists. I donât believe there are any non responders, just guys in extreme estrogen domimance. Finbasteride, donât worry about not responding, there is no mysterious illness here, guys have over complicated this, itâs actually the simplest explanation and the most logical.
Our problems center around suppressed 5ar, while it seems like brain damage, that is just the suppression of the 5ar type 3 enzyme, Google that and what it does and what happens when it is suppressed, affects eyes and brain.
I will post more later, wrote this in a rush.
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Nolvadex is rather useless for pfs, it merely displaces estrogen from the receptors, later it comes back to haunt, it also remains in the body to wreak estrogen havoc. I recommend you try letrozole 2.5mg a day and see how you evolve on that. If nothing happens in a month then you would need to try my protocol. This condition is suppression of the 5ar system, according to my theories, the 5ar system is producing less as it detected too much 5ar enzymes. The same thing happens when testosterone is injected, the body detects too much and shuts down production and produces less.
Had this occurred naturally, the body would lower 5ar (I assume) and self correct, but since this is drug induced, it caused a hormonal loop, where the low 5ar is causing the testosterone to be aromatised. This is occurring on a neurosteroidal level, and the cycle cannot stop unless we stop it, lower estrogen, and stimulate 5ar via a fast acting testosterone with a short half life (so it doesnât remain to be aromatized). I know this might be confusing, most doctors cannot follow me, but in case you can understand, Iâm posting it, and for the benifit of others.
As with a guy who has his testosterone suppressed or shut down, he must use a post cycle therapy to restore it, HCG or clomid or pct supplements to induce the testicles to produce more testosterone. In the same way we must induce 5ar activity, the condition has caused us to have low dht on a neurosteroidal level due to the lack of 5ar activity. So taking external dht will suppress our limited dht, we must induce dht and 5ar and keep estrogen low.
The theory is that in time our system will recover, our 5ar enzymic suppression will reverse, thus the cycle of 5ar enzymes reducing testosterone to dht will occur. Dht is an irreversible suicide inhibitor of estrogen, and as our 5ar recovers we will require less AI and eventually just need either nothing or testosterone replacement. Those who have low testosterone and choose not to treat their low testosterone will simply never recover, they will remain in this neuroestrogen dominant state indefinately.
Guys with low testosterone can fix this with my protocol, and those with normal testosterone may recover quicker by inducing 5ar with testosterone propionate. As I have said before, the future of this treatment is with testosterone susoension as it has no ester. The reason this condition has made people think they are non responsive to androgens is due to the ester attached to long acting testosterone. A suppressed 5ar enzymic system cannot reduce long acting testosterone to dht, the massive dose of testosterone and slow release will eventually cause a new level of estrogen dominance.
Injecting more testosterone cypionate will just do nothing at that point, testosterone suspension quickly converts to dht and leaves nothing behind to aromstize (like our natural testosterone). I recommended testosterone propionate as it is the only form of testosterone with only a 24 hour ester, so it was the best thing till I discovered testosterone suspension. Currently Iâm on propionate and managing my condition with it, I was not able to manage my condition reasonably with any other form of test.
Iâm using letrozole, the only AI that has consistently worked with PFS for me (and one other I have read about here). The key to solving this condition is quite simple, but anyone who says we are androgen non responsive is wrong, androgen insensitivity is mythology like unicorns. Just because guys here were unable to make testosterone cypionate work with pfs (which is extremely difficult). No one here needs to suffer any longer, this condition is reversible. People following my theories already are responding with success based on the principals.
I believe that I have now proven the pfs âcrashâ is actually a form of neuro estrogen dominance, based on the multitude of pfs sufferers all responding the same way to AIâs when used according to my theories correctly. This is not brain damage, this is not androgen insensitivity, the guys preaching that on this forum have taken hope away from a lot of guys.
Most importantly, due to the irrational fear of hormone replacement therapy, (in the UK) many guys from the UK are needlessly suffering from stage 1 pfs (which is pfs induced hypogonadism). Stage 2 pfs is a suppressed 5ar enzymic system that requires my protocols to respond. In a year this forum will be a very different place. As one by one pfs sufferers start reversing their condition, others will follow. You canât get hung up on an exact protocol, thatâs been the problem here. This is not voodoo or magic, you do not copy exactly a dose and drug that someone took and expect to be recovered. You must learn my theories and understand whatâs wrong and modulate these protocols to adapt to your hormonal fluctuations. Also, the strange symptoms many here have are due to the functions of the 5ar enzymes not being performed. 5ar 1,2,3 each perform significant functions, 1 and 2 have to do with sexual and muscular and an array of functions that are being impeded. As testosterone is reduced to dht by these enzymes they perform these functions. As for the occular and neurological symptoms, as I said before, Google the 5ar type 3 enzyme and what it does and what happens when it is suppressed. Simply stimulating the system will resolve all these problems, I have already seen it in others (as well as myself).
It sounds a lot more complicated than it is, once you you feel your hormones you can adapt to how you feel, thatâs why I have made this protocol so simple. For a while you must manage your hormones. I recommend for you to start with the letrozole and let us know how you do, my instinct tells me you will feel better with just letrozole. I will let you guys know when my test susoension gets here, prob wonât be for a few weeks. I also recommend you guys order Chrysin, it is an anti estrogen supplement that endoâs even recommend, Iâm waiting for mine to get here.
I am doing what any one of you would do if you were in my shoes and decoded pfs and how to reverse and potentially cure it, Iâm screaming from the mountain tops, shouting from the streets. This condition has been over complicated when the most simple and logical explanation is correct (Occamâs Razor).
In the USA in anti aging medicine, the concept is to bring your levels back to when you were 21, yiur testosterone should be 1200. As you get older your testosterone declines and so do you, if you are happy with that then don't complain about the sexual problems you are having nopecia lol. Your testosterone is not high or good, it is half of what an anti aging doctor would consider "good" in the USA. You have stage 1 pfs, your 5ar system may be slightly suppressed, or simply just the low test.
If you had stage 2pfs you would have had estrogen dominance attacks, you never experienced any of these attacks (aka pfs crashes). That means your body reduces test to dht without aromatizing most of it. While your test level may be good for a guy who never took pfs, having taken pfs and suffered mild damage (compared to others here), testosterone would fix you. While you complain about penile sensitivity issues, guys here are unable to see well, have ringing in their ears, and a multitude of other problems. I say this in a caring way, just go find an HRT doctor and go on test. I had what you have from finasteride before I took avodart which put me in stage 2.
I responded to testosterone perfectly till I fucked myself with Avodart, go and live your life. No testosterone does not shut down your own production of you use hcg simultaneously, 500iu 2x a week.Yes, it will make your whole face change and you will look even better than pre pfs, all guys do when they go on testosterone. As guys grow past their early 20s they lose the high levels of testosterone that increase muscle size in the jaw and face and make men attractive to women. The trick here is getting testosterone to work with stage 2 pfs, if you read my posts, I explain how. Your situation is fully reversible.
Guys here often think they are missing collagen in their face, while that may be true, it's not what's making those drastic changes to your faces. I am also well versed in cosmetic dermatology, I am as well versed in cosmetic dermatology as I am in hormones. As you age your face loses muscle, bone and fat, but in pfs it is the muscle loss which is affecting the face mainly.
Going on my protocol will restore your looks within 6 months (or sooner).I can say with 100% certainty that it is bone Mostly and Not muscle entirely. Please realize this.
JQD, I am going to see a male specialist doctor here in Australia and show him your theories and even suggest he correspond with DR Jacobs if need be to get me on this protocol. Will be easier if I get a local doctor here to support me in Australia. Can you please tell me if you think clomid will help with Hcg and letrozole? My test is normal range with no real concernâŚalso if my testicles are now the size of small grapes you think test pro can help that grow back to normal? All my friends thougt I was nuts when I said my nuts constantly move all day long until I showed them! What you recko these moving nuts are? Iâm so worried as no one else I spoken to seem to have the constant moving nuts!
Thanks for your passion of wanting to help this thing mate! My doctor will be hard to give me these hormones without some bloods but Iâm gonna try explaining about the neuro steroidal thing. His thoughts were a year ago saying avoid the hormone treatment and do stool analysis and gut checks etc etcâŚwe all know this is bullshit now!
No I havenât fully recovered. And I should add that I still have penile insensitivity along with lowered libido. Thankfully no trouble getting or maintaining erections.
Iâm not sure itâs estrogen dominance with me. I have had me e2 tested and itâs been immeasurably low. I really donât want to go down the testosterone route as my doc will not prescribe due to my OK testosterone levels so I would have to illegally import it. Not to mention letrozole half killed me last time I tried it. My 15% libido went to 0% and my non existent erection problems became very, well, existent lol!
Sounds to me like you recovered from Pfs after 4 years and now you have low testosterone. In anti aging medicine the doctors want to get your testosterone to when you were 21, so that number is 1200. What are your levels? Ok testosterone is not ok, especially if you have pfs, that's what people don't understand. If you have 600 testosterone and 400 of it is aromatising and 200 of it is reducing to dht then the massive estrogen is shutting down dht and test and all this occurring also neurosteroidally, how do you think you will feel? It's all relative and perspective, I don't know much about your case, tell me your levels and I'll see what I can do.JQD, heres a question for you from someone whoâs a little uneducated pertaining to hormones.
I keep reading that trt or hrt will suppress your natural production?
even a little extra testosterone? Like is this suppression dose dependent?
I donât know much about this but I donât think 10mg of test Prop would do that to my body or would it?
Itâs not like im ODing on anything,
I just want the extra boost from the enzymes and dht to recover some physical damage finSHITeride has hot my body with
because for the most part im one of the 4 year recovery guys I guessâŚI feel fine for the most part, only complaints are in the erectile department. things arenât bad but can DEF be better.
Will 10 mg of test prop quell this???
Iâve got the same issue. Everyone says my levels are fine and by taking testosterone Iâd be suppressing my own production. I donât think itâs sensible to become reliant on medicating yourself for life.
Proceed with caution. Remember Propecia was meant to be safe so donât just take the word of someone on a forum.
Nopecia, I do see your point in that I should proceed with caution regarding testosterone.
im a little scared of taking it but I must see how I feel on it, this could be the extra boost I need to make myself feel like myself again.
if I took a drug that surpassed a natural and VERY IMPORTANT enzyme, then there is no reason why I shouldnât consider taking
JQDâS protocol to get a boost of the very same enzyme.
thatâs just my thinking
Why not try an AI first as finbasteride suggests? Would be safer. We donât know if itâs low testosterone causing our condition or something else at play. Since our testosterone isnât conventionally low it seems to suggest itâs not that and I guess thatâs what the studies are trying to figure out. By trying an AI first at least we can experiment without any risk involved.
Iâm going to my docs on Friday to ask for an AI.