Please STFU if you have nothing positive to contribute to this thread.
Start another thread if you want to engage in personal attacks or endless cynicism.
The only thing that’s important is recovery and replicating the recoveries of others. That’s it.
Good thing you never did, that doctor is a moron, cypionate is the most estrogenic form of test, it's put guys here in extreme estrogen dominance on a neurosteroidal level. I have heard lots of guys talk about adderal issues, I believe that is secondary from a damaged 5ar and all the problems associated. When the 5ar system is damaged, you lack the functions of 5ar 1,2 and 3, as 5ar enzymes reduce test to dht they perform jobs. 5ar 1 and 2 are responsible for muscles and skin and hair and male body scent, pheromones, lots of stuff, the type 3 enzyme is responsible for occular and neurological function. If you google and read what 5ar type 3 does and what suppressing it does, it will make things more clear to you about why guys here have occular and neurological symptoms.
Furthermore, as test is not being reduced to dht, we have low dht and high estrogen, estrogen dominance occurs on a neurosteroidal level, all these hormones are on a neurosteroidal level. Tests at reflect minor changes or major changes, but neurosteroids don't show in tests. You have to go by how you feel and once you learn what every hormone feels like, you can manage things yourself. All my blood tests always correlate to how I feel when I manage my hormones.
Cypionate will not work for us, it would be very challenging to get it to work, we need testosterone that is highly androgenic and converts to dht like testosterone suspension. Ideally we wouldn’t need as much AI. For now propionate will get the job done at 10mg every other day and managing estrogen with arimidex. Feel free to experiment and try using progesterone and chrysin or these other options. The problem is sometimes we need to keep the estrogen down and it keeps spiking.
pregnenolone Sounds fascinating, I have to research it and make sure it isn’t suppressive of dht, but doesn’t sound like it is at all. All we have to do is tweak this protocol and make it as perfect as possible and we have a long term treatment and possible cure in time. On this protocol I have pfs in reverse, join me guys, we are so close. When you get everything back like I have, you will be so grateful, I don’t want to be dealing with this forever, that’s why I came up with this.
I will be finished when I’m confident we have the most effecient and simplest protocol possible, don’t kid yourselves, no one is looking for a cure or a treatment. I know more than Jacobs and Goldstein combined (about what pfs is and how to treat it). I am not proud of that, it can be very disappointing, but I solved this, now to perfect it.
The ultimate protocol will probably be testosterone suspension and pregnenolone (assuming it works as moonman says, I have to research it). The reason this condition has been so hard to treat with test is due to the esters, we don’t have enough 5ar activity to deal with long acting test.
Once everyone gets on board and reversed, people will be more receptive to evolving this protocol to perfection. Don’t forget there are people who want to do this naturally based on my theories, we need their input to help others wanting to do the same thing.
Let me add that I know nothing about pregnenolone, I don’t even know if it’s an AI, but if moonman says it is working better than everything else, it’s worth investigating. I had been planning to try letrozole alone without arimidex for a month as I read it builds up, it is stronger but has a lot of sides. Last 2 times I tried it it made me dizzy and my heart raced, but maybe you get hsed to that. Anyone who is brave enough to experiment will be helping the cause. Fuck studies and blood tests and lawsuits, I reversed this and am perfectly happy with my life back, I just want it perfected to the max and to make sure everyone here knows. I have a feeling that this is it, I am the only person working on a treatment and cure, and if you guys join me it will speed it up. Not many people find treatments for diseases, my mom isn’t surprised. If you guys knew me you would know that me doing things like this is not unusual for me lol, but all of us together could change the lives of countless thousands of guys around the world and save many lives.
Hey moonman, where did you hear about pregnenolone being an snti estrogen? Seems like it converts to progesterone which we know is an anti estrogen, have you been using testosterone with it?
Pregnenolone is a precursor to progesterone which is a pre-cursor to several of the neurosteroids which were absent in PFS patients in the Italian study. Pregnenolone is also a precursor to other androgens and estrogens - not really possible to a sweeping statement like that.
I sort of stumbled upon it as I have experimented with just about every vitamin and drug out there. I was more concerned with using it to support my adrenals, but the e2 control was the major benefit. I have a hunch that adrenals/metabolism must be adequate to support androgen/estrogen ratios. So in that scenario, pregnenolone (1) supports adrenals/cortisol aiding the androgen/estrogen ratios and (2) can also convert to progesterone if needed to oppose e2 (in my case I dont know that it did as my prog. levels were always high). I have not used it in conjunction with TRT only with Trib (which had no results this time).
My estrogen labs always showed low estrogen, but I had bad estrogen sides. I would take AIs and within the hour I would get rebound estrogen sides. It was confusing and I still dont know why, but I am assuming it was because my pregnenolone levels were low and I always used Testosterone Cyp. (sometimes w HCG) in my TRT protocols.
I take pregnenolone daily for it’s anti-anxiety effect. Pregnenolone is the first steroid synthesized from cholesterol, a neurosteroid, and considered the bodys “mother hormone”, as all other steroids are synthesized from preg. Whether it’s an anti-estrogen, I have no idea, and have not seen any studies that would indicate that.
Thanks JQD for posting your PMs, the contents are great news indeed!
Well, makes me want to start just Arimidex (or Liquidex) and see what’s going on and dosing only by symptoms. It’s interesting because dosing by symptoms really seems like the wisest thing to do: that’s what i’ve been doing with T3 and HC since the start more than 6 months ago, I check my pulse and my temp every fucking day many times a day before my doses, and I adapt my takes and my posology according to my check-up, and believe me it’s a lot safer that way than sticking with the prescribed doses.
Before adding Test prop, I’m really tempted to try Clomid, because I want to boost my natural production first. If this doesn’t work, then it will be the Prop injections. I trust the hormonal therapy, it’s just that the idea of going to the clinic for injections every other day during many months looks like a pain in the a** (no pun intended), and, of course there is always the risk I have to do it for life.
I started T3 and HC very safely, regularly upping the doses according to my symptoms, I knew when it was not the time yet to up the dose of T3 (unstable temps). I will do the same with Arimidex/Clomid/Test Prop.
How many mg/ml Arimidex/Liquidex do you think I may take for a start without any testosterone boosting? 0,1?
Hey there, remember that testosterone is something you inject yourself at home, you don’t need to go to a clinic or anything. If you are on HCG or keeps your own natural production up, if one day you want to quit after your system recovers (I doubt you ever would quit, no guy pfs or not would quit testosterone after trying it) your test will still work fine due to the hcg.
The T3 adrenal stuff I feel is BS, adrenal supplements will do fine and once you correct the problems with my protocol, your other symptoms will improve. As for dosing, if you are using your own natural testosterone try 0.5mg and wait an hour, if that works try less next time. With testosterone injections you need much more depending on how much test you inject.
It’s astonishing isn’t it? I bet you all thought before you got this that doctors knew about hormones, how can it be that doctors know so little about hormones? How is it that I know more than any doctor I have met even dr Jacobs about this stuff? It’s a real sad reality and probably why lots of people have lots of mysterious conditions. Makes me think, if we need dosing of arimidex as needed because we can feel estrogen due to our exotic condition, I wonder if that’s why they have trouble treating breast cancer. Maybe women with breast cancer need more than they prescribe, your test will show low estrogen right after you take arimidex, but it spikes back up in minutes or an hour with this condition.
NATURAL SUPPLEMENTS I recomend
Maca Root: I took this before I had pfs, i restarted it recently and it really does work at boosting your libido.
DIM (Diindolymethane): it’s supposed to help regulate estrogen and prevent cancer, it’s a very healthy supplement and body builders use it to kill off estrogen. I have found taking it several times a day does do something. I really think natural supplements are a waste of time, but some have some benefit like these.
Adrenal Support: Adrenal supplements will help you, we know adrenal support helps guys with pfs, I tend to believe this is a secondary condition caused by untreated pfs, but body builders all take this stuff, our body is behaving like a mega body builder on mega doses of steroids.
Vitamin D of course, this is difficult to get by supplement so go out in the sun for 20 mins a day, if you are afraid of skin cancer then stay home and get a more deadly incurable internal Cancer instead. Studies show people in tropical environment exposed to the sun have high skin cancers (which are mostly curable and rarely deadly) but lower incidents of internal deadly cancers. If you don’t have sun go to the tanning salon for 10 minutes a couple times a week. If you believe the hype about the sun pushed by sunscreen companies lobbying to sell their poisons then stay home, but the science behind it is what I say. People who get skin cancer bake in the sun for hours every day bs 20 mins a day or every other day.
I meant “vs 20 mins” not “bs”
“Own testoterone” with or without Clomid?
Clomid or any test boosters is your own testosterone, exogenous is from injections. I wanted to also add that for those injecting prop, 10mg every other day is the best I have found. I have tried increasing doses and frequency but I always come back to 10mg every other day for now. However, that’s the amount we naturally produce (5mg a day), so with it I have nice big muscles and libido and the whole 9 yards.
Yes, but my precise question was: do I have to take 0,5mg Arimidex either on or off Clomid? Isn’t 0,5mg a little too much with just my natural un-boosted production?
By the way: 16 hours left before my appointment with my doc!
It doesn't work like that, you must alter your thinking or you will never get better, this isn't about the protocol or a scheduled dosing. You must learn what estrogen feels like and counter it with arimidex, panic, anxiety, muscle twitches, sadness, depression, water retention, much of what you think is fat is actually water retention.
If you flick your fat and it ripples that's water retention, if it jiggles like fat it's fat, could be a combo. Try small doses and wait an hour 0.25mg and see if you have improvements. The lower your test the lower your estrogen will be, if you increase your test you will feel some positive feelings and a lot of horrible estrogen feelings. The idea is to lower the estrogen so the dht can come on, estrogen will shut down our limited dht production. The more dht we produce the more estrogen will be killed, dht is a suicide inhibitor of estrogen, works like aromasin which is why aromasin kills our own dht, our compromised system thinks we have enough dht and stops producing.
Operate off of how you feel, see how 0.5mg makes you feel after an hour, you should be using test propionate or clomid or some sort of testosterone booster. Never use any other form of test except shorter acting ones than propionate like suspension.
You must regulate your own hormones, you must learn how estrogen feels and react to it, estrogen is deceptive, it will trick you and make you think you are sad or depressed. Patient X1 took a lot of convincing to believe that his depression was estrogen and take arimidex, now he relies on it like xanax and even said he wished he had known this months ago.
Try the lowest effective dose, that's why the liquid is best, on testosterone propionate anything less than 1mg doesn't seem to do much for me. This is just the beginning, we will all find better approaches, I'm already working on a newer and better approach, use your brains gentlemen, this is w concept. Don't get caught up in protocols, some here complain that my protocols keep evolving, their thinking is confined and they have no vision or ability to understand this goes beyond a protocol. Think deeper, your body and emotions may be ravaged by pfs, but it can't take your soul and your logic, use that to find your way out of this. Estrogen is the root of all our problems, if we could eliminate most of it on an hourly basis we would respond to testosterone (even a small response) it will get better and better as dht builds up (dht has a 5 day half life and estrogen a 13 hour half life).
Don't forget the goal is to build up dht which will then kill estrogen, but if the ratio of estrogen is too high it will shut down dht. This is a vicious cycle we must stop so that our bodies can start to respond. I'm sorry to shatter your hopes but don't expect much from your doctor, this is it, it ends and starts here, I'm it, I know more than any doctor I have found about this and how to treat it.
If you can prove me wrong I would be happy, but unfortunately doctors (even endocrinologists) have a very limited understanding of hormones. I don't know why that is, doctors who treat breast cancer would be a better help for us. The only problem is their steroidal protocols would shut us down, so that's it. Dr Jacobs was using a protocol that made pfs worse, testosterone cypionate and aromasin, it's a deadly cocktail for pfs, the aromasin shuts down dht and the cypionate increases it more.
So my faith that your doctor will have some revelation that surpasses my findings is minimal. I was like you excited to see a doctor once too, I'm the end I found the way myself, sharing my knowledge with dr Jacobs so that it gets legitimized was my goal. Take all avenues, but be careful, doctors can make you worse, they will tell you to stop the arimidex and go on test cypionate. Eden started with an endo who told him he would help him if he stopped everything, Eden agreed, he never responded to test again. What Eden doesn't know is that he can respond if he reversed estrogen dominance, but I'm not here to argue anymore, let those who want to listen listen and those who wish to follow another path do so.
Keep your excitement level low, be cautious, your doctor could make your situation worse, I advise you to go only to doctors studying this like Jacobs or goldstein, though goldstein's protocols are horrible in my opinon. Jacobs is at least being open minded and working with this stuff, he can treat you remotely. What do you expect out of your doctor?JustQuitDut,
I’ve been following this thread pretty closely and reading almost every single word. I must say that you and your discoveries make me hopeful. I just have some concerns.
1: does test propinionte (spelling) at a 10-20 dose every other day really have the capacity to rebuild the body ie, prostate, seminal vesciles, nerves for sensation, etc etc…
2: ive read that some guys have messed with androgens have been left worse than before. do u feel with your protocol that this is possible or likely?
3: also im assuming that I can get all my stuff if I decide to do this through dr. Jacobs?
Thanks brother…keep fighting the good fight. Who knows? you may be the very guy that will have saved all of us from hell.
LOL I follow cdnuts method as well and get improvements. If you paid attention to what I said, I said that cddnuts method/recovery is not consistent with taking AI’ to constantly reduce estrogen. What is being discussed here (other than peoples arguing) is justquitdut’s theory that we are all suffering from a form of estrogen domience that does not show up on blood work.
As I already said all of the “natural AI’s” that cddnuts was taking are weak when compared to armidrx. The Rev is a weak estrogen reducer I know what reduces estrogen and what does not. The type of estrogen reduction that justquitdut is saying we need to pursue most likely will not be achieved my any natural esyrogen reducer. Justquitdut is a awesome guy who knows more than anyone here about treating hormonal imbalances and PFS. I did not say I’m not agreeing with his latest estrogen domience throry.
I am simply sayibg cddnuts recovery, methods and story is not consistent with this theory when looking at his recovery and comparing it to justquitdut’s estrogen domience theory. You are to fast to get defensive.
Cddnuts did not constantly reduce his estrogen to induce DHT production like justquitdut is saying needs to be done. He simply added in natrual AI’ into his pct’s which are obviously going to be a part of any PCT. cddnuts reported feelibg better and better after each cycle of androhard he did (the fact that he also cycled natural T boosters and used PCT that consisted of natrual AI’s is besides the point)
The reasoning behind why cdnuts felt as if he was getting better and better after each cycle is not consistent with justquitdut’s theory of constantly needing to reduce estrogen to feel better.
And yes I cycle my T boosters… Don’t know where you got that from
I don’t expect any revelation from him about pfs, but since he’s open-minded, I’m eager to tell him about this theory (well, fact-based theory that is, it seems), so that he lets me try it, and we can work together just like Dr Jacobs and you! And who knows, since he has a few pfs patients, maybe he will be able to really help them then? He has been trying to find the trick about this condition, he’s interested in it, I’m sure he will listen. But I will have to convince him about the Estrogen because he didn’t think it was the culprit, he was concerned about the fact that low estrogen was a libido killer, and so wasn’t willing to lower it.
5 alpha- estrogem domiance is not high estrogen. I can’t tell you how many times people don’t understand that