I want to add that Praying To Heal is a perfect example, an American guy, with PFS, went to an HRT doctor who put him on a very creative protocol of testosterone and Progesterone and Chrysin (as an anti estrogen) and HCG every other day in low doses. It follows the same principals of my theories, the HCG every other day at low doses is the same principal as test propionate every day or every other day at low doses.
How many other guys with PFS like Praying To Heal found a creative HRT doctor who reversed them. Mew banned Praying To Heal for reason we all agree with, he was annoying, but he did not have low test. A guy with low test, ANY HUMAN MALE will respond to testosterone, we donāt know of guys who donāt except with PFS. If Praying To Heal didnāt have PFS he wouldnāt have come here, because after that first shot of test he would have been a beast and never looked back.
He was like me on hormones for a while keeping afloat, he really was on the right track, too bad we donāt know the name of his doctor, she could be on this forum as a doctor to treat PFS. The protocol she used on him was brilliant, and I plan to try to modify mine in the future to incorporate some of her items ( I saved the protocol).
So the real danger here is from people telling everyone this condition is untreatable and irreversible and that hormones are dangerous, that is the danger here. That is clearly not true, Dr Goldstein uses hormones to treat guys, though his protocols are crappy (in my opinion), they do work mostly, but not for everyone. My point is, this forum is filled with sick guys who should be on hormonal protocols, but most are not, and people are dying, they are killing themselves and countless may just from reading the posts here. Guys like Finbasteride bash me on a daily basis and mock my protocol and say it is dangerous, and meanwhile he is drowning himself in alcohol and xanax.
My advise to you guys in the UK is to use your logic, read what I say, this condition is difficult to treat, but treatable, if everyone were on protocols like mine following the same principals, we could find treatments for everyone. We could gain new insights, people wouldnāt be suffering like they are, there isnāt one person here who will not respond to hormones, you canāt respond to estrogen but then not respond to testosterone or DHT.
We should mark a new path, a path of guys getting their estrogen under control and inducing DHT via their own testosterone or testosterone propionate (the only form I have found that will consistently work for everyone with PFS). I want to end this for everyone, no one should endure this, it is sad.
I just wanted to add, I am not claiming this condition is easy or easy to treat, I am saying that we have learned what is going on mostly, at a functional level we can manage things. Itās better than nothing, once you get your doses figured out of propionate, and every day or every other day (I recommend every other day). I think once you figure out your doses and are on it and stable for a few months, you might forget you have it. Some people will be able to tolerate every day propionate injections, others will need every other day. Part of the reason it is so hard to treat this condition with injectable testosterone is because it gets stronger as you do more and estrogenic. It stays in your system and builds up and we are just aromatizing it, thats why guys do good on hormones for a short time before getting estrogen dominance. The difference with Propionate is it has only a 24 hour half life, so if you inject every other day, it wonāt build up, on 10mg every other day you may need little arimidex, go off of what you feel.
Finasteride just blocks 5AR-Type 2, not type 1 or type 3.
And I will say it again, you dont need to inject anything to have more testosterone, you can do it without it. Injecting Exogenous testosterone will reduce or cancel your own producing testosterone.
Also to reduce estrogens you dont need arimidex.
Apart from that this is a good a protocol and made sense. I will add some 5AR enzymes booster to enhace the T->DHT conversions, there are at least 3 that have been studied including Protoboiscin and Creatine.
Greetings
Belikewater
JustQuit, remember it wasnāt a country with socialised healthcare that approved Propecia in the first place. Donāt blame the NHS for not having answers to problems created there.
JQD it seems like youāre needing more and more testosterone to maintain. Youāre injecting 50mg now correct? Why the increase in dosage.
Point to the recoveries in which there was a lot of hormone use. I just donāt see it. Some seemed to have used supplements to aid them along the way, sure, but these supplements typically donāt have the strength and efficacy of real drugs. You state that cdnuts used hormones to recover (the prohormones that is, I donāt know what the conversion rate is but itās probably very low) and yet in the same breath you say that the DHT prohormones were counterproductive due to exogenous DHT being suppressive. Then it wasnāt really the hormones that helped him to recover, it must have been good ol fashioned dieting and exercise along with some supplements thrown in for energy. Your argument is full of holes Iām afraid to say.
Dude, If diet and exercise are the fix then people who are fit to begin with would never get PFS. Your argument is very silly and it releases Merck of responsibility. You are just a Fat ass bizzbee333. Thatās why you have all these issues.
[quote=ābizzbee333ā]
Point to the recoveries in which there was a lot of hormone use. I just donāt see it. Some seemed to have used supplements to aid them along the way, sure, but these supplements typically donāt have the strength and efficacy of real drugs. You state that cdnuts used hormones to recover (the prohormones that is, I donāt know what the conversion rate is but itās probably very low) and yet in the same breath you say that the DHT prohormones were counterproductive due to exogenous DHT being suppressive. Then it wasnāt really the hormones that helped him to recover, it must have been good ol fashioned dieting and exercise along with some supplements thrown in for energy. Your argument is full of holes Iām afraid to say.
Just the Aromasin by itself. My T levels are around bottom 15th percentile.
I plan to trial the AIās by themselves, then introduce Testosterone Propionate if need be.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that. Please keep us updated 
I pretty much have a six pack and look muscular and Iām in great shape. I have reached upwards of 70% recovery just on the silly diet and exercise you dismiss as trivial. I was fit to begin with when I started finasteride you nitwit. Most of the recoveries have been achieved with this special diet and special exercise routine you fucktard. You are a stupid, worthless, cynical, little punk who doesnāt have the aptitude or discipline to get himself out of this mess no matter what feeble attempt it is you try. Your negativity infects this entire forum, you are a fucking poisonous little rat, and you donāt know shit.
Wow
Diet and exercise helps all humans, even ones that have been screwed over by this drug. Last I checked you where the one that came to this thread with your negativity regarding someone elseās protocol claim of 100%. You were the one that decided to try and pick at someone saying they were wrong. If I am a negative rat, then so are you. Youdecided to chime in here and say this protocol was wrong because you decided your way is superior. It sounds like no matter what you have done your still 40% fucked. Not something to be proud of.
[quote=ābizzbee333ā]
I pretty much have a six pack and look muscular and Iām in great shape. I have reached upwards of 70% recovery just on the silly diet and exercise you dismiss as trivial. I was fit to begin with when I started finasteride you nitwit. Most of the recoveries have been achieved with this special diet and special exercise routine you fucktard. You are a stupid, worthless, cynical, little punk who doesnāt have the aptitude or discipline to get himself out of this mess no matter what feeble attempt it is you try. Your negativity infects this entire forum, you are a fucking poisonous little rat, and you donāt know shit.
/quote]
Iām being highly skeptical as I should, thereās a difference but not to you of course because youāre a nitwit. There are holes all over this guyās story. Where do I begin? I think finbasteride has done a good job of exposing some of them. He comes here with visions of grandeur and delusion and knocks on all those who have worked hard to recover using a special diet and exercise, claiming that their recoveries are not real. How the fuck would he know? How the fuck do you even know what I look like in the mirror? Did you come over my house and spy on me while I looked myself over in the mirror? Iām improving about 20-25% per year. How is that still fucked? I got so good I didnāt even have to think about this problem. Thatās certainly something to be proud of, it took a lot of hard work, something you probably donāt have any notion of. How would you even know such things? You still donāt know shit. Go whimper in a corner somewhere. You have nothing to offer here, just gloom and hopelessness.
For those of you who are considering this protocol, I would recommend that you just wait, wait and see. Surely you can tolerate a few more months of this misery? People are most vulnerable to suggestion when they are desperate and in misery. I was tempted too. Allow these anonymous subjects time to come forward and report their experiences. He may just redeem himself in these next few months but I would recommend you wait before doing anything brash. Iām hoping he has found some kind of breakthrough but I remain skeptical.
I donāt really like the way you talk to peopleā¦ But I understand it and Iām reaping the same benefits from the things you endorse.
Edit - to clarify, bizz was very respectful and helpful to me when I contacted him.
@bizzbee333, Here we go again. You assume that everyone has an inferior diet and exercise program. That is why we are suffering. Your somehow superior in this area and no one else can achieve that. Your a fucking nitwit. There are holes in your solution. At least 40% by your own admission, 70% delusional. I think its possible that each person has been impacted at different levels. Your insistence that diet, supplements, and exercise is the way is just as arrogant as JQD insisting T injections get you to 100%.
Yes here we go again. One more time so that the nitwit may understand. I donāt make assumptions easily. My only purpose for making certain assumptions is to judge the efficacy of a particular treatment plan, not to sit on a lofty perch and look down on others as if they were inferior, as the nitwit seems to think. Although I can gather from what some here have said that they simply arenāt doing this program correctly and consistently and so should not pass judgement so easily as they have done before. I merely observed that a paleo diet and high intensity training seemed to yield optimal results. Of course, I have tried other ways but this way was the most optimal thus far. If JQDās protocol works and is clearly superior to others then only a fool would argue otherwise, and you can bet your ass Iāll be following his method too. Yet, this remains to be seen. Secondly, 40% and 70% do not make 100%, to speak of holes in oneās argument. I am about 60% recovered with the 40% to be attained slowly through persistence and hardwork. This is not a āholeā in an argument, it is a feeling along with certain physiological changes that I use to gauge progress. My insistence has brought me quite far along with this problem and I expect it to take me further in the future. A little arrogance couldnāt hurt either with boosting oneās confidence. You still donāt know shit and youāre beginning to sound like an emotional little ninny.
Prohormones are no different from steroids, they are just designed to be legal by not being steroids till they metabolize in your liver. CDnuts constantly stimulated his 5ar and dht with body builder pct cycling which after 4 years helped along his recovery, the dht prohormone he used was counter productive and slowed his recovery. He probably thought it was helping as it was dht replacement, but add 4 years onto any hormonal protocol and you will have progress. Tom whatever his name is here recovered after 4 years and on hrt with Goldstein, -JN- recovered after 10 years after using lots of hormones. I know of no natural recoveries without hormones or anti estrogens, there is the one story that is obscure about chi or whatever his name is. I donāt want to wait 4 years, I already am on diet and exercise, I am in perfect shape. Iām merely offering people the option of reversing this condition and hoping that it speeds up the natural healing process. Keep in mind hormones decline with age, your test isnāt going to get higher as you get older. I see no evidence that hormones used correctly are a bad thing since most recoveries involve hormone use in the past. Donāt kid yourself man, CDnuts was using very powerful steroids, just because they are called a supplement is meaningless, one of them was banned by the fda and shut down. Iām just offering people here another option besides time.
Finasteride doesn't block 5ar type 3 and it also doesn't cause PFS right? I'm not talking about what lies are in medical literature, I'm explaining very simply why guys here have neurological and occular problems. Google 5ar type 3 and read what it does and what blocking it does. You can only induce so much of your own test and with pfs most of it is being converted into estrogen on a neurosteroidal level. It's cool however you want to fight pfs, I'm all for trying different protocols. So long as you understand what's wrong and how to fix it, that's more important than my protocol, the principals, and it seems you understand that. I hope with that knowledge you are able to defeat this naturally, keep us up to date. I have yet to find anything natural
That can block estrogen like we require.
Well, itās everyoneās choice, one thing is for sure, the 2 people im working with will eventually come forward in a couple months Iām sure. These guys arenāt gullible either, you will all be surprised who they are lol. As for my protocol, dr Jacobs approves it and is prescribing it, so it canāt be that dangerous. Do what you want, I want you all to recover, just sharing what I know.
Sounds good man. Keep us updated