And its that easy! Yet it has never worked for you, why? What is a really high dose? You must have tried the Trib that Apr1989 did. How come that didn’t work out?
yeah, that’s what I always said, good luck finding one exact protocol that works the same for two different people. Interestingly, it seems 5 different protocols may have great positive effects on the same person. I’m under the impression it’s the way each one of us is wired that is important and not the particular protocol. Some people may respond to anything, some others to nothing. it may be a question of time, of drug/supplement use at one moment or another in their pfs timeline, before of after having used some other drug/supplement…I don’t know…we really don’t know. I’m eager to start Test pro and Arimidex anyway, I will keep you informed, I see my doc next week, and I hope he will agree with that.
mcibofh what are you doing other than sitting at your PC and criticising everyone?
I’ve asked several times but you never reply.
When are you going to stop being a complete idiot Chris? Obviously everything you have tried (or are willing to try) doesn’t work. Why do you get upset with me when I point out the complete stupidity here. Its nice that you waste your time on reddit trying to help people. Here is my issue with all this speculation… If you guys keep jumping on here saying goat dick extracts fix PFS then why should researches waste there time? Doctors don’t take us seriously as it is. Then you guys jump on here and blab about all these cures. They are all over the fucking place trib, asparagus, Maca, just to name a few. You guys make this look like a bunch of lunatics. This activity probably causes more people to try FIN because they don’t find this site and the people here credible at all. Just yesterday I was on you-tube and a doctor was saying we are all full of shit and he was going to try this. He says this because that’s exactly what I would think looking here. I cant reply and say go to PH site. HELL NO! he would read this and conclude, crazy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3oTKY3T1DY
Also as many people have told you Chris, time in and time out… You have very mild issues! Stop being such a cry baby.
It’s one thing to disagree with someone’s ideas and another to be constantly aggressive towards people.
Tribulus will activate the 5AR-enzymes giving you more conversion ratio T->DHT, but you have to boost T other ways and there is many. Also you will have to low estrogens, that will produce more testosterone as the HPTA axis will detect low estrogens and he indirectly thinks that there is not enough testosterone.
Also you you should already should have to be in a nice diet & exercise 4 times a week (strengh training does wondurfull things for testosterone production).
Justquitdut should add 5AR enzymes booster to his protocol and he will get better results.
Belikewater
Ideas being peddled as facts way to often. I guess we can stop with the awareness. I troll and try to save them to.
You must realize something. Awor concluded (through his self experimentation) this to be acquired androgen insensitivity syndrome of some kind. The only way for you to figure out if your in that camp would be to supplement with testosterone or DHT. See if you feel good/better and If you do, will it stick? At least that was his conclusion. It makes logical sense. Now has Awor tried Test prop, don’t know. I do find this to be a legitimate experiment to find out. Everything else is a waste of time.
That’s bullshit. You cant test 5ar enzyme production. So anyone that claims trib does that is full of shit.
Why do you talk about Awor like some kind of medical savant? He’s just a man who’s made certain observations/assumptions based upon his own symptoms just like the rest of us. He’s invaluable to the community for sure but his theory is no more correct than any other theory until proven. Considering it’s been a good 3-4 years and there’s still very little proof and we have guys with so many varying symptoms (Some with ed, some with just mental sides etc) then I’m inclined to believe that it’s incorrect and this is an enzyme issue.
You cannot test for the enzyme. So I do not think you will see a scientific conclusion there. I don’t think Awor is a medical savant. I think he made an large effort to see if his problem could be corrected using hormones. He concluded that was not the case, for him. He had mental’s as well, this shit makes you suicidal unless your already retarded.
All I am saying is something very logical as well…
Normal Man + Testosterone = Positive Response
PFS Man + Testosterone = Bad or No Response
Who cares about the symptoms beyond that. They can be all over the place. I am sure this opens you up to all sorts of nasty diseases.
If you look into TRT properly you’ll see that plenty of men who go on trt don’t magically resolve their situations, it’s a vastly complicated field of medicine that not many Doc’s are really familiar with that can be effected by thyroid, adrenal hormones, metabolic rate and likely plenty of other things we aren’t even aware of.
I’ve read more than one experience from men who’ve never taken a 5ari, developed hypogonadism, started trt with an AI and still found that their libido doesn’t come back, their erectile function doesn’t return, skin oiliness doesn’t come back etc etc. When you increase T your body needs to be able to support the increased need for other hormones to process the testosterone.
In my Personal experience, my symptoms fluctuate day to day. My sleep is back to a consistent level. My erectile function and libido vary wildly from pretty shitty to almost fully recovered. Gyno symptoms fluctuate. I’ve put back on all the muscle I lost and I’m gaining strength week by week. By no means am I fully recovered but I’m pretty sure I will be within a year or two. Going by my Personal experience, awors theory is incorrect. Either that or my receptors break and repair themselves repeatedly? Regardless of what’s going on, you’re in no position to call someone elses theory bullshit, considering everyone’s personal case seems unique.
On top of all of that, we share an almost identical symptom profile with PSSD, which as far as I’m aware has absolutely nothing to do with 5ar inhibition at all.
Please keep this thread on topic. Lots of off-topic posts, fighting, name calling going on here.
This thread is about JQD’s protocol = Test Propionate + Arimidex (AI) to stimulate and channel 5ar production.
That’s it. If you want to create another thread slamming this method, JQD, talk about the Dallas Cowboys, please open another thread.
Yes this woild make it much easier for us to track people’s progress who are trying test propionate and armidex or just armidex with a natural T booster.
Who exactly is doing this right now?
I’m taking just Aromasin. Aromasin is another AI. Just started third week.
Boners, libido, and fapping were increased in weeks 1 and 2, noticeably, at a dose of 6.25mg every third day.
Have recently upped the dose. Will trial Arimidex-only next.
Nice, are you taking testosterone with it or a natural T booster or are you just the AI alone?
If you are taking the AI alone do you have any idea what your natrual T levels are at?
Hi all, dr Jacobs is not prescribing my protocol, I started a new thread about it as I feel people should join in and I wanted it to be announced in a new thread. Patient X2 called dr Jacobs to confirm I wasnt a quack and all I was saying was true lol.
Anyone doing this protocol, remember to keep the propionate low, 10mg every other day or every day (depending on what you can handle). Make sure to take arimidex as needed, anytime you feel any estrogen dominance symptoms. It is my hope that in time our systems will adapt and recover, we have countless examples of guys getting better. It always coincides with the use of 5ar stimulating hormones or supplements. So I believe that keeping the system normal and active like this probably induces recovery.
As for the symptoms that are neurological or ocular, I suggest you guys Google the 5ar enzyme type 3, as these enzymes reduce test to dht they perform functions. Those functions must be stimulated, on this protocol they will be stimulated and these symptoms should reverse. Pfs is not as complicated as many here have made it out to be. We took a drug that blocks 5ar, 5 ar enzymes reduce test to dht, that reduction process results in jobs being performed by these enzymes. The 5ar enzymes 1 and 2 have to do with skin, hair, muscles, a lot of things. These functions are being blocked and that is what is causing problems. Furthermore, the lack of conversion of test to dht creates the estrogen dominance and the estrogen signals our system to shut down male hormones. Estrogen dissolves muscle, it caused panic, anxiety, trouble taking deep breaths, agony, depression, sadness.
I can’t imagine how anyone can’t clesrly see this is what’s going on, it’s so clear to me, and I have operated off of these concepts and theories and they translate into the real world. To continue discussions about adrenal glands and is ridiculous, the androgen insensitivity theory is also wrong. All due respect to Awor, he isn’t androgen insensitive, he has estrogen dominance on a neuro steroidal level. With arimidex regularly for a couple weeks and then starting a low dose of test prop every other day (as well as arimidex as needed), his dht will build up. If that didn’t work, a month of testosterone injections along with masteron injections to match the testosterone and he would respond (though prob never recover).
The body cannot repair the demage because it is in a constant state of estrogen dominance, the body thinks testosterone is too high and is continuing to respond in kind. Lowering estrogen and raising test in a way that doesn’t cause a lot of aromatization is how to fight this. We want to recreate the opposite scenario of what finasteride did. Right now our system has high estrogen and it’s signaling our body that our testosterone is too high so shut down male hormones (this is a fact by the way confirmed by dr Jacobs about estrogen shutting down male hormones). What if we create a scenario of high testosterone (or good testosterone), and low estrogen, and then our low 5ar and dht, what then? Won’t our system detect low dht and low 5ar and do the reverse of what it is doing now? The only reason guys aren’t recovering is there is a vicious estrogen cycle going on. It’s going in circles, estrogen shutting down male hormones, test being converted to estrogen and so on and so forth.
When you learn to balance and regulate your own hormones you can live normally, yes it sucks, but the alternative is living like this. The good news is that we have seen recoveries, and they are always following lots of hormone use (both supplements and medical), so there is an argument for this to induce recovery. Most importantly, before I went down the dht road, I was recovering! I was barely on any arimidex, didn’t know it was estrogen, we can all get there again.
There is no such thing as androgen insensitivity, I was also non responsive to testosterone and feared I was non responsive, but I turned the tables and I learned what is really going on. The sooner you all accept this as reality, the sooner we can all get better. I don’t believe anyone should suffer with this condition, before I move on, I will make sure I make known what I know and how to fix this.
Stay strong my friends, help is on the way, don’t allow yourselves to be defeated by estrogen and this condition, fight, resist, rise up! Find within yourselves the strength and bravery to fight this, estrogen takes over the mind, it causes psychosis and depression and agony, all guys who have pfs should be on some measure of arimidex. If you aren’t on testosterone you need much less, only correlating with your testosterone activity. You have to keep the estrogen down so that the 5ar enzymes can be stimulated and dht not shut down.
Stay strong, the more who join this project, the better off we will all be,
Hang in there, recovery is at hand!
Aromasin almost finished me, bare in mind that after you accept aromasin is suppressive of this condition and quit it, you will start over like you had taken your last finasteride. Aromasin completely shuts down dht in us, I reacted to it the same as dht, suppression, only I didn't have the positive effects. Also, without exogenous testosterone, you are operating off of a very limited supply of test and dht.
Aromasin is just a synthetic form of dht without the benifits, it's like popping a miserable excuse for dht in a pill. Molecularly dht and Aromasin look almost the same, our bodies recognize it as such and do not signal low dht. If you start arimidex I advise you to at least use some test boosters if not test propionate.Oh, I forgot to add, dr Jacobs has sent me a script to check my blood levels. I know some of you guys are sooo into blood test results, let’s see what comes back, prob the same as always, everything will be good, especially now that I’m really managing my hormones with this protocol.
Ok man. How is your libido now? Boners? Morning wood?
Since I have been on my protocol I have had morning wood every day, very potent libido, it reversed PFS, muscular body, good mood. Just have to be careful not to follow my testosterone doses. I am not sure if people here know that I am a pretty muscular guy and before I had PFS I was huge. I have been trying to get that back, but the only way I have was with Masteron, on this protocol I have got muscular again, not as big as I want.
So keep that in mind, I often don’t explain that, if I didn’t care about my body and big big, I would keep my doses low at around 10mg every day to every other day. I advise everyone to stay at those doses and treat estrogen with Arimidex symptomatically, whenever you feel any estrogen (aka PFS crash symptoms) take 1mg of Arimidex. On testosterone injections the arimidex dose is required to be much higher at 1mg at a time, off of testosterone the arimidex doses are much lower, but find what works as needed, probably 0.5mg whenever you feel estrogen and wait an hour.
I have been trying to get my testosterone propionate up higher so that I could get bigger, so keep that in mind when I post things like injecting 30mg a day, that is rather high for PFS. The more you inject, the more Arimidex you will need to deal with the estrogen. This is more than a protocol, it is a principal and concept, with PFS you do not want high doses of test in your body for very long, that is why propionate is so good, it has about a 24 hour half life. If the dose is too high and you have a lot of estrogen effects, you need only wait and every hour it will decline.
I will keep evolving this protocol as time goes by and I find better methods of anti estrogens and better methods of inducing DHT and stimulating 5AR. That doesn’t mean this protocol will stop working because I might find a better way to get the job done, this protocol will always work. What we want is instant release of testosterone so that there is the least amount of aromatizing as possible. There is a form of testosterone called testosterone suspension, that has no ester, not even 24 hour half life, I think only a few hours.
I am fascinated with it and sometime down the road will give it a shot, as well as try other forms of anti estrogens. It may be that I find this protocol to be the only one that works, but no one else is looking for a cure or treatment, so I will continue to refine this. Right now I have PFS in reverse and have had it so for a couple months.
Several guys have been working with arimidex and Tribulus, only because Tribulus is a testosterone booster, there is no other magic behind tribulus besides that, you can use any test booster. You just need to keep estrogen under control, now we know that it is a fact that these crashes are estrogen dominance, that Arimidex stops and reverses them. I advocate only fixing the hormonal imbalances, these imbalances are not really detectable by blood tests. I believe they are neurosteroidal, so they are affected by hormones and drugs, but don’t show in tests.
I have tried every kind of AI, and always come back to Arimidex, Letrozole caused a lot of side effects, it has a 6 day half life, it cannot be doses as needed safely like Arimidex (in my experience). Also the side effects from Arimidex I have had have only been estrogen ratio created. My joints will get dry not depending on how much arimidex I take, but depending on how much arimidex I take in conjunction with my estrogen level at the time. For example, if I have a huge estrogen surge due to having injected 50mg of testosterone propionate (like today lol), I would take 1mg of Arimidex and wait an hour, I will feel better, then estrogen comes back, and take another and repeat. My joints won’t get dry, not even at doses of 10mg if my estrogen is surging super high. However, if my testosterone is lower then there isn’t as much test to convert to estrogen, so in that case I need less arimidex, and if I were to take the same dose with lower test and lower estrogen, I would have dry joints. So that is why I feel Arimidex is great for this, it seems to be a safe as needed drug for our situation.
On 10mg of test propionate every day or every other day, your body will induce DHT which will help to kill off estrogen, you will not need as much arimidex, you might get by with 1mg a day or 2mg a day, everyone is different. DHT has a 5 day half life, so the more you build up, the longer it works and less Arimidex you will need.
If anyone has a problem taking arimidex as needed then feel free to suffer with PFS estrogen dominance, remember that they give Arimidex to women with cancer, because estrogen causes cancer. I feel it is extremely dangerous to live with this condition untreated, so the people who are against hormones and anti estrogens are going down a dangerous road. I understand wanting to try to boost your own testosterone, fine, but you need arimidex as needed, or you will suffer estrogen dominance and these “crashes” which are nothing but estrogen and reversible with arimidex.
Be weary of many of the guys from the UK, they have a socialized medical system, while that is great for the masses having medical care, when a condition like this arises there are no doctors to deal with it. Since there is no capitalism in their medical system, there is no reason for doctors to have Hormone Replacement Therapy for men who can afford it, due to that there are countless guys on this forum who think they have PFS when they simply have Finasteride induced hypogonadism (which I had first and treated perfectly with hormone replacement therapy till I got PFS from Avodart).
Nopecia for example, a very nice guy, but he has been on this forum for 3 years thinking he has PFS when all he has is low testosterone. I know this for a fact after speaking with him and asking various questions, also based on his response to tribulus. A guy with PFS would convert most of the testosterone to estrogen and feel the PFS estrogen dominance (aka pfs crashes). If a guy doesn’t feel that, it means he can response to testosterone without the estrogen dominance. So one wonders why he stays on this forum when all he needs is testosterone.
So perhaps it is because of the medical system in the UK, this is why I am against socialism, I don’t want to get political, just that there are guys who are killing themselves and suffering for years with something that is treatable. Have you noticed that many of the guys on this forum are from the UK? I suspect a lot of guys with PFS in the US have found an HRT doctor that managed to find a way to manage their symptoms with hormones. The reason this forum exists is because they simply don’t have that medical system there, when I first came to this forum I read that people with PFS do not respond to hormones. I did not respond to testosterone anymore when I got PFS, so I thought I was non responsive, but with my knowledge of HRT and also bodybuilder knowledge, I was able to problem solve around this condition and get things working.
I believe every HRT doctor has run into guys with PFS, they probably found creative ways to deal with it and never thought of it as “PFS.” Yet, time and again I see posts from UK guys warning people of the “dangers” of hormones. They never tell us what dangers there are, they just say they are dangerous, guys with PFS do respond to hormones, it is just more complicated. I am not bashing guys from the UK, I do business with the UK regularly, and all the guys here from the UK are nice guys. I am just pointing out an observation I have made, many guys in the US read these posts from UK guys and think they are doomed, but it is simply not true.
Granted, most HRT doctors will not know how to treat this or care to try, it just so happens I have the knowledge of an HRT doctor (only much more extensive), so I was able to work with this. There is no doubt this condition is horrible, but no one should suffer with it when there is a way to treat it, I see no evidence that doing nothing and hoping your body will recover is a good idea, all recovery stories follow extensive hormone use. People here like to say CD nuts didn’t use hormones, but he did, all those supplements were hormones created in a way that can get around the law by being precursors that your liver converts to steroids.
CD nuts used DHT and HCG and Arimidex in the form of supplements, after constant stimulation of his 5AR system he recovered. So be careful about what you read on here, more than 10 years ago in the USA we thought hormones were dangerous too, medicine has evolved since then. Many UK guys are waking up and reading my posts and taking action, that makes me happy, I want all of us to recover, but my protocol may not be perfect, it may not reverse you 100%, but it will give you your life back at WORST. So if you don’t reverse 100%, you will still have back your sex drive, your penis, your muscles, your mood, and possibly speed up recovery.
I don’t deny this condition is complex and horrid, and it wasn’t easy for me to treat, and many guys have tried a lot of things, but because they failed they declared that hormones did not work. First of all, masteron works famously, if someone didn’t want to recover and just wanted to reverse this totally, on an injection of testosterone long acting ester, an injection of masteron would start your body to respond to it after about 1 month on test and masteron (and Arimidex as needed) you would be 150%.
I don’t take that route, because I want to recover, and DHT is suppressive to our condition, but declaring things like hormones don’t work and masteron doesn’t work is ridiculous. I never saw one instance of anyone using it correctly! I believe every single person here who goes on my protocol of propionate and arimidex will improve their condition a lot to possibly 100% and in time will recover (quickly), perhaps in a year or less, who knows, that is just my best guess. I know I will get flack for this, but my heart really is in the right place.